War in heaven

1stCenturyLady · Oct 22, 2021

Curtis said:
No, Israel doesn’t run and hide from the dragon for 3.5 years during the General trib, then come out of hiding just in time for the great tribulation - that makes absolutely no sense.

Rev 12:6 and the woman fled into the wilderness, where she has a place prepared by God, in which she is to be nourished for 1,260 days. (3.5 years).

They flee into the desert when the mid trib abomination of desolation occurs, per the warnings of Jesus, and after 3.5 years of hiding, the tribulation is over, they don’t need to hide then.

Maranatha

There is no such thing as a "General" tribulation. The Great Tribulation is 7 years long, and is two halves like the other times. The first one was 67BC to 60 BC, with the defilement of the temple in the middle. The second was 66 AD to 73 AD with the defilement of the temple again in the midst of the week in 70 AD.

Truth7t7 · Oct 22, 2021

Curtis said:
The two witnesses are in the first half of the tribulation - when Satan is cast down is when the great trib starts - he possesses the antichrist, gives him power to kill them, which no mere man could do, (and they tried to kill them for 3.5 years) - and when they are raised from the dead, the resurrection and mid trib rapture occurs too.

IMO, which is most likely correct.

The Two Witnesses are present on earth to the final hours of earth's existence, yes verse 18 below is the final judgement (The End) why do you remain silent on this fact?

Your claim that 3.5 years exist "After" the Two Witnesses are killed is in major "Error"

The two witnesses are given 1260 days or 3.5 years

You will closely note in verse 13 below (The Same Hour) the two Witnesses are raised to heaven the 2nd woe takes place in the great earthquake

The 3rd woe comes quickly in verse 14-15 in the 7th angel sounding (The End)

Verse 18 is the (Final Judgement)

Revelation 11:3-18KJV
3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.
6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.
7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.
10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.
11 And after three days and an half the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.
14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

quietthinker · Oct 22, 2021

At Jesus crucifixion Satan was unmasked. His real intent displayed for the whole created Universe to see. Access to heaven permanently curtailed.

Davy · Oct 24, 2021

1stCenturyLady said:
1. Of all the angels, why was it Michael who fought Satan and threw him and his angels out of heaven?
2. Did this happen before creation week? If not, when did it happen, or when will it happen?
3. Does Satan and his angels still have access to God's throne?
4. In context what is chapter 12 and 13 about? That may help answer these questions.

1. Archangel Michael is shown in Daniel 10 also in regards to having power over Satan in the heavenly realm. See Daniel 10:13 and Daniel 10:21. The prince of Persia there represents Satan in the heavenly realm. The vision is about heavenly events over the earth.

Daniel 12:1 is pointing to a time when Archangel Michael stands up (i.e., makes a stand), and then begins "a time of trouble, since as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book." That is the same timing as the war in Heaven of Revelation 12:7-9.

2. The war in Heaven between Archangel Michael and Satan per Revelation 12:7-9, is for the end of this present world. It has not... happened yet. Some country preachers fail to look closely at all the events there associated with Satan and his angels cast down to this earth, which are definite latter day events from verse 7 to verse 17. The power of Christ comes in Heaven when Satan is cast out. That never... happened back at Satan's original rebellion in the old world. Lord Jesus hadn't been born through woman's womb yet back then, so this ought to be real easy... to figure out.

3. As of right now still today, yes, just like in the Book of Job. That is why once Satan is cast down for the coming tribulation, that's why those Rev.12:7-17 verses say peace will then come in Heaven, as the Accuser of our brethren is cast out. No brainer.

4. Things that are major misses in most brethren's reading of Revelation 12 and 13:

a.-- in Rev.12:3-4, we are shown the "dragon" drew a third of the stars (angels) to earth with him, and that he had a beast system of ten horns, seven heads, and seven crowns. That was the time back in the old world when Satan first rebelled against God, coveting God's Throne. That was prior to Adam and Eve.

b.-- in Rev.13:1-2, we are shown a beast with ten horns, seven heads, and ten crowns. Lord Jesus linked this one with the ten kings of the Book of Daniel, and beast kingdoms of this world of past history which the animal symbols in verse 2 represent.

c.-- the number of 'crowns' between the Rev.12:3-4 beast system is different than the one in Rev.13. This reveals that Satan rebelled with a similar world beast kingdom of ten horns like the one that is to be setup in final in Rev.13 for the coming great tribulation at the end of this present world.

1stCenturyLady · Oct 24, 2021

Davy said:
1. Archangel Michael is shown in Daniel 10 also in regards to having power over Satan in the heavenly realm. See Daniel 10:13 and Daniel 10:21. The prince of Persia there represents Satan in the heavenly realm. The vision is about heavenly events over the earth.

Daniel 12:1 is pointing to a time when Archangel Michael stands up (i.e., makes a stand), and then begins "a time of trouble, since as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book." That is the same timing as the war in Heaven of Revelation 12:7-9.

2. The war in Heaven between Archangel Michael and Satan per Revelation 12:7-9, is for the end of this present world. It has not... happened yet. Some country preachers fail to look closely at all the events there associated with Satan and his angels cast down to this earth, which are definite latter day events from verse 7 to verse 17. The power of Christ comes in Heaven when Satan is cast out. That never... happened back at Satan's original rebellion in the old world. Lord Jesus hadn't been born through woman's womb yet back then, so this ought to be real easy... to figure out.

3. As of right now still today, yes, just like in the Book of Job. That is why once Satan is cast down for the coming tribulation, that's why those Rev.12:7-17 verses say peace will then come in Heaven, as the Accuser of our brethren is cast out. No brainer.

4. Things that are major misses in most brethren's reading of Revelation 12 and 13:

a.-- in Rev.12:3-4, we are shown the "dragon" drew a third of the stars (angels) to earth with him, and that he had a beast system of ten horns, seven heads, and seven crowns. That was the time back in the old world when Satan first rebelled against God, coveting God's Throne. That was prior to Adam and Eve.

b.-- in Rev.13:1-2, we are shown a beast with ten horns, seven heads, and ten crowns. Lord Jesus linked this one with the ten kings of the Book of Daniel, and beast kingdoms of this world of past history which the animal symbols in verse 2 represent.

c.-- the number of 'crowns' between the Rev.12:3-4 beast system is different than the one in Rev.13. This reveals that Satan rebelled with a similar world beast kingdom of ten horns like the one that is to be setup in final in Rev.13 for the coming great tribulation at the end of this present world.

Interesting, but seeing as they were captives of Persia lead me to believe that every nation has an archangel over it, whether of God or of Satan. The archangel referred to as the Prince of Persia is over Persia, and Michael "your prince" is over Israel. Satan is actually referred to as the King of Tyre. He is not a "prince."

Also the placement of the verses in Revelation 12 is right before the Great Tribulation starts. Before that soon coming last 7 years, Satan and his angels are now still in heaven as the accusers of the brethren.

Truth7t7 · Oct 24, 2021

1stCenturyLady said:
Satan and his angels are now still in heaven as the accusers of the brethren.

I Disagree, Satan Is In The Realm Of Earth, Not In Heaven As Claimed

Job 1:6KJV
6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them.
7 And the Lord said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the Lord, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.

1 Peter 5:8KJV
8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:

1stCenturyLady · Oct 25, 2021

Truth7t7 said:
I Disagree, Satan Is In The Realm Of Earth, Not In Heaven As Claimed

Job 1:6KJV
6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them.
7 And the Lord said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the Lord, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.

1 Peter 5:8KJV
8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:

Look at Job. All the angels were in heaven, including Satan. They all went to where God was, God didn't go to where they were. Satan has access to heaven until the war between him and Michael right before the Great Tribulation which will be very soon. But for now they all have access between heaven and earth.

As the accuser of the brethren, what judge is he accusing us to? Us or God?

Truth7t7 · Oct 25, 2021

1stCenturyLady said:
Look at Job. All the angels were in heaven, including Satan. They all went to where God was, God didn't go to where they were. Satan has access to heaven until the war between him and Michael right before the Great Tribulation which will be very soon. But for now they all have access between heaven and earth.

As the accuser of the brethren, what judge is he accusing us to? Us or God?

I Disagree, Satan was at the "Footstool" of God on this "Earth", just as the scripture clearly teaches

Satan Is In The Realm Of Earth, Not In Heaven As Claimed

Acts 7:49KJV
49 Heaven is my throne, and earth is my footstool: what house will ye build me? saith the Lord: or what is the place of my rest?

Job 1:6KJV
6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them.
7 And the Lord said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the Lord, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.

1 Peter 5:8KJV
8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:

1stCenturyLady · Oct 25, 2021

Truth7t7 said:
I Disagree, Satan was at the "Footstool" of God on this "Earth", just as the scripture clearly teaches

Satan Is In The Realm Of Earth, Not In Heaven As Claimed

Acts 7:49KJV
49 Heaven is my throne, and earth is my footstool: what house will ye build me? saith the Lord: or what is the place of my rest?

Job 1:6KJV
6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them.
7 And the Lord said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the Lord, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.

1 Peter 5:8KJV
8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:

Hi T,

Satan isn't thrown out of heaven until the war with Michael, the archangel over the land of Israel in Revelation 12. Look at the timing of that war.
Revelation 12:13 This is right before the Great Tribulation which is soon to start but hasn't yet, so Satan still has access to heaven.

13 Now when the dragon saw that he had been cast to the earth, he persecuted the woman who gave birth to the male Child. 14 But the woman (ISRAEL) was given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness to her place, where she is nourished for a time and times and half a time, from the presence of the serpent. 15 So the serpent spewed water out of his mouth like a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away by the flood. 16 But the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened its mouth and swallowed up the flood which the dragon had spewed out of his mouth. 17 And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring (CHRISTIANS) who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Truth7t7 · Oct 25, 2021

1stCenturyLady said:
Hi T,

Satan isn't thrown out of heaven until the war with Michael, the archangel over the land of Israel in Revelation 12. Look at the timing of that war.
Revelation 12:13 This is right before the Great Tribulation which is soon to start but hasn't yet, so Satan still has access to heaven.

13 Now when the dragon saw that he had been cast to the earth, he persecuted the woman who gave birth to the male Child. 14 But the woman (ISRAEL) was given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness to her place, where she is nourished for a time and times and half a time, from the presence of the serpent. 15 So the serpent spewed water out of his mouth like a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away by the flood. 16 But the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened its mouth and swallowed up the flood which the dragon had spewed out of his mouth. 17 And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring (CHRISTIANS) who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

We Will Disagree, Satan Is Not In Heaven As You Claim

The scripture below clearly teaches Satan/Dragon was cast to the earth with his angels, and the dragon stood before the (Woman/Israel) and was ready to devour the (Man Child/Jesus) at his birth upon this earth 2,000 years ago, Jesus was born on this earth, and ascended to his throne at the ascension

Satan nor his Angel's are in heaven as you claim, they were cast to earth and were present to devour Jesus Christ the Man Child at his birth as seen in Matthew 2:13 and Revelation 12:4 below

Satan on earth using King Herod to devour Jesus Christ 2,000 years ago, as Herod inquired of the three wise men on where Jesus Christ was when he was born, to devour/destroy Jesus Christ

Matthew 2:13KJV
13 And when they were departed, behold, the angel of the Lord appeareth to Joseph in a dream, saying, Arise, and take the young child and his mother, and flee into Egypt, and be thou there until I bring thee word: for Herod will seek the young child to destroy him.

Revelation 12:1-5KJV
1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:
2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.
3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

2,000 year gap between verses 5-6 showing the future remnant in the wilderness during the future tribulation

Revelation 12:6KJV
6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

Revelation 12:7-9 below, Retelling the story in Revelation 12:3-4 above of Satan and his Angel's being cast into the earth

Revelation 12:7-9KJV
7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Heart2Soul · Oct 26, 2021

I studied the 3 heavens a while back and the author states that Satan and his demons occupy the 2nd heaven....the first Heaven is here on earth...(the sky) the 2nd Heaven is outer space and the 3rd Heaven where God dwells is beyond all that.

Truman · Oct 26, 2021

In my understanding and experience, the first heaven is outer space. The second heaven is where the enemy is, is where the Lord has had me to do much warfare, and is where I've picked up many articles. The third heaven is where I saw His holy mountain, with fire swirling around it. It was where His glory rays came from that I'd experienced.
It was during another time, at the bottom of this mountain that I saw Yeshua, robed in majesty, upon His horse, as He rode towards me. The window of heaven closed, and I became aware of the weight of His presence.
As I heard the Lord overhead, laughing at His enemies, the weight of His presence pushed me over backwards, taking Him about 15 seconds to gently lay me out on the floor. As I looked up, I saw a tongue of fire fly into the room and slam into my chest.
My body started shaking, and for the first time ever, tongues burst out of my mouth. After I stopped shaking, I got up and left my motel room.
As I stood outside in the crisp, winter's morning air, waiting for the cafeteria to open, I looked at the farm across the street. I heard a voice behind me say," I saw Satan fall from heaven as lightning."
As I watched, I saw an object, perhaps a mile away, fall from the clouds. As it hit the ground, I saw that it was a being, and it started running towards me. I could see that the being was dressed up in what reminded me of a Robin Hood outfit, perhaps one that fowlers wear.
As he was heading towards me, I, feeling no fear, thought, "You do know who's standing behind me." At this point, He started zig-zagging from tree to tree, in an obvious attempt to hide from me. "Click," went the door behind me and I turned and went in to have a coffee.

1stCenturyLady · Oct 26, 2021

Truth7t7 said:
We Will Disagree, Satan Is Not In Heaven As You Claim

The scripture below clearly teaches Satan/Dragon was cast to the earth with his angels, and the dragon stood before the (Woman/Israel) and was ready to devour the (Man Child/Jesus) at his birth upon this earth 2,000 years ago, Jesus was born on this earth, and ascended to his throne at the ascension

Satan nor his Angel's are in heaven as you claim, they were cast to earth and were present to devour Jesus Christ the Man Child at his birth as seen in Matthew 2:13 and Revelation 12:4 below

Satan on earth using King Herod to devour Jesus Christ 2,000 years ago, as Herod inquired of the three wise men on where Jesus Christ was when he was born, to devour/destroy Jesus Christ

Matthew 2:13KJV
13 And when they were departed, behold, the angel of the Lord appeareth to Joseph in a dream, saying, Arise, and take the young child and his mother, and flee into Egypt, and be thou there until I bring thee word: for Herod will seek the young child to destroy him.

Revelation 12:1-5KJV
1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:
2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.
3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

2,000 year gap between verses 5-6 showing the future remnant in the wilderness during the future tribulation

Revelation 12:6KJV
6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

Revelation 12:7-9 below, Retelling the story in Revelation 12:3-4 above of Satan and his Angel's being cast into the earth

Revelation 12:7-9KJV
7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Well, at least we can AGREE to disagree.

Truth7t7 · Oct 26, 2021

1stCenturyLady said:
Well, at least we can AGREE to disagree.

Yes, enjoyed the dialogue

Jesus Is The Lord

1stCenturyLady · Oct 26, 2021

Truth7t7 said:
Yes, enjoyed the dialogue

Jesus Is The Lord

I was talking to a pastor today who believes the war in heaven happened before creation. I think you and I both agree it was at least after Jesus was resurrected. But Revelation 12:13 is not where I stop reading. The rest of 12 and the first part of 13 is the Great Tribulation, so I believe I will have to agree with what I see in Scripture that it is future, but soon. And it is also why Satan was allowed access to heaven to be an accuser of the brethren. That would be Christians. Yes, Jesus is victorious over Satan and made it possible for us to be sinless like Himself. Others like to argue with me on that. Oh well.

Truth7t7 · Oct 26, 2021

1stCenturyLady said:
I was talking to a pastor today who believes the war in heaven happened before creation. I think you and I both agree it was at least after Jesus was resurrected. But Revelation 12:13 is not where I stop reading. The rest of 12 and the first part of 13 is the Great Tribulation, so I believe I will have to agree with what I see in Scripture that it is future, but soon. And it is also why Satan was allowed access to heaven to be an accuser of the brethren. That would be Christians. Yes, Jesus is victorious over Satan and made it possible for us to be sinless like Himself. Others like to argue with me on that. Oh well.

I dont agree that the war took place after the resurrection as you state

You were presented a detailed description on how satan was present at the "Birth" of Jesus Christ, waiting to devour/destroy Jesus as seen below

We Will Disagree, Satan Is Not In Heaven As You Claim

The scripture below clearly teaches Satan/Dragon was cast to the earth with his angels, and the dragon stood before the (Woman/Israel) and was ready to devour the (Man Child/Jesus) at his birth upon this earth 2,000 years ago, Jesus was born on this earth, and ascended to his throne at the ascension

Satan nor his Angel's are in heaven as you claim, they were cast to earth and were present to devour Jesus Christ the Man Child at his birth as seen in Matthew 2:13 and Revelation 12:4 below

Satan on earth using King Herod to devour Jesus Christ 2,000 years ago, as Herod inquired of the three wise men on where Jesus Christ was when he was born, to devour/destroy Jesus Christ

Matthew 2:13KJV
13 And when they were departed, behold, the angel of the Lord appeareth to Joseph in a dream, saying, Arise, and take the young child and his mother, and flee into Egypt, and be thou there until I bring thee word: for Herod will seek the young child to destroy him.

Revelation 12:1-5KJV
1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:
2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.
3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

2,000 year gap between verses 5-6 showing the future remnant in the wilderness during the future tribulation

Revelation 12:6KJV
6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

Revelation 12:7-9 below, Retelling the story in Revelation 12:3-4 above of Satan and his Angel's being cast into the earth

Revelation 12:7-9KJV
7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

1stCenturyLady · Oct 26, 2021

Truth7t7 said:
I dont agree that the war took place after the resurrection as you state

I'm not talking about our resurrection, but Christ's.

And the dragon stood before the woman who was ready to give birth, to devour her Child as soon as it was born. 5 She bore a male Child who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron. And her Child was caught up to God and His throne. 6 Then the woman fled into the wilderness, where she has a place prepared by God, that they should feed her there one thousand two hundred and sixty days.

Then the verses regarding the war in heaven are right before these verses about the Great Tribulation.

13 Now when the dragon saw that he had been cast to the earth, he persecuted the woman who gave birth to the male Child.14 But the woman was given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness to her place, where she is nourished for a time and times and half a time, from the presence of the serpent. 15 So the serpent spewed water out of his mouth like a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away by the flood. 16 But the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened its mouth and swallowed up the flood which the dragon had spewed out of his mouth. 17 And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Truth7t7 · Oct 27, 2021

1stCenturyLady said:
I'm not talking about our resurrection, but Christ's.

And the dragon stood before the woman who was ready to give birth, to devour her Child as soon as it was born. 5 She bore a male Child who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron. And her Child was caught up to God and His throne. 6 Then the woman fled into the wilderness, where she has a place prepared by God, that they should feed her there one thousand two hundred and sixty days.

Then the verses regarding the war in heaven are right before these verses about the Great Tribulation.

13 Now when the dragon saw that he had been cast to the earth, he persecuted the woman who gave birth to the male Child.14 But the woman was given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness to her place, where she is nourished for a time and times and half a time, from the presence of the serpent. 15 So the serpent spewed water out of his mouth like a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away by the flood. 16 But the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened its mouth and swallowed up the flood which the dragon had spewed out of his mouth. 17 And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

I have explained myself in detail, we disagree

Read Real Slow, The Dragon Was On This Earth To Devour Jesus Christ At His Birth

You Claim He's In Heaven Presently, We Disagree, The Horse Is Dead

I dont agree that the war took place after the resurrection as you state

You were presented a detailed description on how satan was present at the "Birth" of Jesus Christ, waiting to devour/destroy Jesus as seen below

We Will Disagree, Satan Is Not In Heaven As You Claim

The scripture below clearly teaches Satan/Dragon was cast to the earth with his angels, and the dragon stood before the (Woman/Israel) and was ready to devour the (Man Child/Jesus) at his birth upon this earth 2,000 years ago, Jesus was born on this earth, and ascended to his throne at the ascension

Satan nor his Angel's are in heaven as you claim, they were cast to earth and were present to devour Jesus Christ the Man Child at his birth as seen in Matthew 2:13 and Revelation 12:4 below

Satan on earth using King Herod to devour Jesus Christ 2,000 years ago, as Herod inquired of the three wise men on where Jesus Christ was when he was born, to devour/destroy Jesus Christ

Matthew 2:13KJV
13 And when they were departed, behold, the angel of the Lord appeareth to Joseph in a dream, saying, Arise, and take the young child and his mother, and flee into Egypt, and be thou there until I bring thee word: for Herod will seek the young child to destroy him.

Revelation 12:1-5KJV
1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:
2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.
3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

2,000 year gap between verses 5-6 showing the future remnant in the wilderness during the future tribulation

Revelation 12:6KJV
6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

Revelation 12:7-9 below, Retelling the story in Revelation 12:3-4 above of Satan and his Angel's being cast into the earth

Revelation 12:7-9KJV
7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Davy · Oct 27, 2021

1stCenturyLady said:
Interesting, but seeing as they were captives of Persia lead me to believe that every nation has an archangel over it, whether of God or of Satan. The archangel referred to as the Prince of Persia is over Persia, and Michael "your prince" is over Israel. Satan is actually referred to as the King of Tyre. He is not a "prince."

Both the "prince of Tyre" and "king of Tyre" in Ezekiel 28 are metaphorical references to Satan.

Also the placement of the verses in Revelation 12 is right before the Great Tribulation starts. Before that soon coming last 7 years, Satan and his angels are now still in heaven as the accusers of the brethren.

[/quote]

Satan and his angels right now still have access in the heavenly abode, but not after that war of Revelation 12:7-9. The following phrase in red tells us this...

Rev 12:7-8
7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
KJV

This is where understanding in God's Word is key that there are only 2 different dimensions of existence. There is this earthly dimension we live in, and then the heavenly dimension where God and the angels live in. Because that Scripture says when Satan and his angels are booted down to earth, it literally means they are kicked out of the heavenly dimension. That leaves only one other dimension they can go to, and that is here, in our earthly dimension. This means those on earth when that happens will literally 'see'... Satan and his angels here on earth. And remember per Ezekiel 28:18, God has already passed Satan's sentence and destruction, and it's to be upon... this earth.

Ezek 28:18-19
18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.

19 All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.
KJV

1stCenturyLady · Oct 27, 2021

Truth7t7 said:
Read Real Slow, The Dragon Was On This Earth To Devour Jesus Christ At His Birth

That was Satan's desire, yes, but it didn't happen, or do you believe it did by some strange fire doctrine.

And you read this slowly.

And the dragon stood before the woman who was ready to give birth, to devour her Child as soon as it was born. 5 She bore a male Child who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron. And her Child was caught up to God and His throne.

When was Christ caught up to God and His throne? It was after His crucifixion and resurrection which defeated Satan.

1 John 3:8
8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil.

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