The Myth of saying that Jesus Christ died for all men without exception !

Kermos said:

I suspect you are using the KJV version of 1 John 5:19 since you use the noun word translation of "wickedness" for the Greek singular adjective word πονηρῷ (Strong's 4190) in 1 John 5:19.

Interestingly, in 1 John 5:18, the same Greek root word with an alternative suffix occurs, πονηρὸς (Strong's 4190), yet the KJV has the translation "wicked one" for πονηρὸς (Strong's 4190) even though the noun "one" is implicit for the Greek singular adjective word πονηρὸς (Strong's 4190).

The singular adjective Greek word πονηρῷ (Strong's 4190) properly translates to the English word "wicked" as well as correctly in Greek carrying the implicit noun of "one" in 1 John 5:19 resulting in the English phrase "wicked one" just like the KJV's translation of 1 John 5:18.

Truly, both 1 John 5:18 and 1 John 5:19 are "wicked one" ("evil one") just as the NIV, ESV, NLJV, and NASB translators rendered these verses.

Your answer of "yes" to the question "@Ronald Nolette, do you believe that you, right now, are a part of "the whole world" as it is written in 'the whole world lies in the evil one' (1 John 5:19)?" places you in the location of inside the evil one - a place with you touching the evil one - the place of non-christians - Christians are not touched by the evil one (1 John 5:18).

The Christ says "by your words you will be condemned" (Matthew 12:37).

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I use Greek interlinear regardless of the KJV and showed that ponero is an adj, in the dative case in 19 and the nominative in verse 18.

But I decided to do further investigating in the Greek and used deeper parsing tools. I have been mistaken in the past when I delved deeper before, so I decided if I was missing something. For ponero there is the definite article TO present. Normally that would rule out wicked ness (especially being in the singular), but given the construct of the passage it is better translated as to (as in towards), which once again confirms it is speaking of the fact that the entire global system is in the lap (geographically) of the wicked one and the entire global system is in wickedness. This is further confirmed trhroughout Scripture.

While we as Christians (though you have sinfully judged me a non -Christian) live in this present wicked world we are not of the world. So in one sense both are true though your version is grammatically incorrect, the priniciple is true- we are not relationally in th e lap of the wicked one, though we are in the lap(geographically as verse 19 states) of the wicked one and wickedness while on this earth.

This is a very small deal that you have blown up by your intransigence to vbecome soemthing that is a big deal.

I have been a biblical teacher for over 35 years now and I like to insure that things are correct!

But aloso and the biggest problem here is your judgmental spirit and presumptiousness as to knwoing the salvation status of people. This is horrible pride and will lead you to a great downfall, and I would spare you.

but have the last post if you wish- we h ave beaten this dead horse long past it being beneficial.

Pearl said:

John 17:20-23 Jesus Prays for All Believers
20 “My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, 21 that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. 22 I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one— 23 I in them and you in me—so that they may be brought to complete unity. Then the world will know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me.

The way I read John 17 is that the ones God gave to Jesus are the ones that were his disciples here on earth.

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Returning to John 17:20, the first verse that you quoted in your post, "believe in me through their message".

And part of John's message includes the recorded words of Lord Jesus "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) and "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19).

And there Jesus states something about Christ's very being, that is that He is the exclusive Chooser, not man, but Christ alone.

Do you claim to be superior to the Apostles?

According to your post's final paragraph when taken with Jesus sayimg "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) to the Apostles, then with your purported choosing of Jesus in your own power that results in you claiming to be superior to the Apostles.

Wrangler said:

Mentioned in today's sermon. Man does not find a way to God; God makes a path for man.

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Hello Wrangler, I'd like to bring @Pearl into this.

God marvelously and majestically reigns in the affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35, Philippians 1:11, Acts 4:24-30).

The only Way (John 14:6) to everlasting life is to be born of God - one cannot even righteously perceive King Jesus of the Kingdom of God without being born of God (John 3:3-8).

God alone makes the way for man!

Pearl said:

You see the negative and I see the positive. Live and let live.

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Do you claim to be superior to the Apostles?

According to your previous relative post's final paragraph when taken with Jesus sayimg "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) to the Apostles, then with your purported choosing of Jesus in your own power that results in you claiming to be superior to the Apostles.

You call "the word of @Pearl" contradicting the Lord's words of "you did not choose Me" (John 15:16) "positive", and you call God having me proclaiming to you the good Word of God "negative". It is not good to contradict Jesus Christ the Lord.

Kermos said:

Do you claim to be superior to the Apostles?...
It's the good Word of God, which God has me proclaiming to you, that shows the wickedness of "the word of @Pearl".

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Wow! The inflammatory planets must be aligned this week.

Ronald Nolette said:

I use Greek interlinear regardless of the KJV and showed that ponero is an adj, in the dative case in 19 and the nominative in verse 18.

But I decided to do further investigating in the Greek and used deeper parsing tools. I have been mistaken in the past when I delved deeper before, so I decided if I was missing something. For ponero there is the definite article TO present. Normally that would rule out wicked ness (especially being in the singular), but given the construct of the passage it is better translated as to (as in towards), which once again confirms it is speaking of the fact that the entire global system is in the lap (geographically) of the wicked one and the entire global system is in wickedness. This is further confirmed trhroughout Scripture.

While we as Christians (though you have sinfully judged me a non -Christian) live in this present wicked world we are not of the world. So in one sense both are true though your version is grammatically incorrect, the priniciple is true- we are not relationally in th e lap of the wicked one, though we are in the lap(geographically as verse 19 states) of the wicked one and wickedness while on this earth.

This is a very small deal that you have blown up by your intransigence to vbecome soemthing that is a big deal.

I have been a biblical teacher for over 35 years now and I like to insure that things are correct!

But aloso and the biggest problem here is your judgmental spirit and presumptiousness as to knwoing the salvation status of people. This is horrible pride and will lead you to a great downfall, and I would spare you.

but have the last post if you wish- we h ave beaten this dead horse long past it being beneficial.

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You wrote quite a bit, and I read your whole post.

I think your sentence "Normally that would rule out wicked ness (especially being in the singular), but given the construct of the passage it is better translated as to (as in towards), which once again confirms it is speaking of the fact that the entire global system is in the lap (geographically) of the wicked one and the entire global system is in wickedness" summarizes your principal point (not to neglect your references to Greek).

But first a segue.

That is "lies in" (John) not "in th e lap" (you).

"Lies in" means to be spatially surrounded by.

This is like an unborn baby in the womb - that is, the baby lies in the mother.

These are all "geographic", so to speak.

The "evil one" encompasses touching "the whole world".

The mother encompasses touching the baby.

Do not forget the Bible is a spiritual book about spiritual matters.

Back to what I purported to be the principal point.

The construct of the passage is, specifically, "the whole world lies in the evil one" (1 John 5:19).

John writes of the born of God Christian "the evil one does not touch him" (1 John 5:18).

Regardless of nominative and dative, these do not override the linguistical stricture of a singular adjective of the word "evil" resulting in "evil one" for both 1 John 5:18 and 1 John 5:19.

Thus the flow and construct of the passage from 1 John 5:18 to 1 John 5:19 is solid grammatically and contextually with "evil one".

Both 1 John 5:18 and 1 John 5:19 refer to the "evil one", and the two verses declare the polarity of the saved being untouched by the evil one (1 John 5:18) as juxtaposed to the unsaved being touched by the evil one (1 John 5:19).

This is confirmed throughout scripture.

Among the reasons that this is so important

A Christian lies in Christ - that is one with Lord Jesus - not serving two masters.

A non-christian lies in the evil one - that is outside of Christ.

These verses show that the word "world" does not have to mean everyone everywhere which has implications for a verse like 1 John 2:2.

Wrangler said:

Wow! The inflammatory planets must be aligned this week.

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You removed the critical middle paragraph, so here it is:

According to your previous relative post's final paragraph when taken with Jesus sayimg "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) to the Apostles, then with your purported choosing of Jesus in your own power that results in you claiming to be superior to the Apostles.

BTW, I changed the last paragraph, but the Truth (John 14:6) remains.

Since the Word of God says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) and "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19), then Christ died ONLY for the people of God.

Pearl said:

You see the negative and I see the positive. Live and let live.

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@Pearl I love that John 17 passage...

Kermos said:

You removed the critical middle paragraph, so here it is:

According to your previous relative post's final paragraph when taken with Jesus sayimg "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) to the Apostles, then with your purported choosing of Jesus in your own power that results in you claiming to be superior to the Apostles.

BTW, I changed the last paragraph, but the Truth (John 14:6) remains.

Since the Word of God says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) and "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19), then Christ died ONLY for the people of God.

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Friend, @Pearl is a beloved and well-respected member of this online community who has never written an inflammatory post that I've seen. So, I don't know why you are picking a fight with her.

If she says she choose Jesus, that's good enough for me. This idea that she is, thereby, claiming to be superior to the Apostles is outrageously inflammatory!

Let me explain something to you about Jesus words in John 15:16. He was talking to the Apostles. Jesus chose the Apostles. He is not talking to us. And there is another example in Scripture where Jesus DOES support people like @Pearl acting on his behalf who he did not choose. See Luke 9:49-50.

Pearl said:

Time for some more emojies I think. What colours shall we have today?

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@Pearl All those little coloured faces...

Pearl said:

Yeah, I just thought I'd a little colour to the procedings.

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(Couldn't resist this comment!)...so you can see why ppl like to get little tattoos...

Kermos said:

The construct of the passage is, specifically, "the whole world lies in the evil one" (1 John 5:19).

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That is only what English translations say.

You yourself showed that John was speaking of geography and relationship when He says the whole world lies in wickedness.

Kermos said:

Do not forget the Bible is a spiritual book about spiritual matters.

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It also deals with History, geography, nationalities and science as well. God is creator of all these. And you must remember that Satan is not omnipresent so the whole world (present) cannot lie in the wicked one.

Paul declared Satan is the God of this world. And here He says the WHOLE (holos) world lies in wickedness. All of it lies in wickedness! I don't care a whit why you feel you need to edit what God inspired

But using your definition (which has been mine) yes we lie in wickedness spatially not relationally. I honestly do not know why you are so proud to hold to such a faulty position and tyhen accuse brethren of being unsaved.

Wrangler said:

Friend, @Pearl is a beloved and well-respected member of this online community who has never written an inflammatory post that I've seen. So, I don't know why you are picking a fight with her.

If she says she choose Jesus, that's good enough for me. This idea that she is, thereby, claiming to be superior to the Apostles is outrageously inflammatory!

Let me explain something to you about Jesus words in John 15:16. He was talking to the Apostles. Jesus chose the Apostles. He is not talking to us. And there is another example in Scripture where Jesus DOES support people like @Pearl acting on his behalf who he did not choose. See Luke 9:49-50.

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Then let @Pearl answer the simple couple of questions instead of you stepping in, and you saying that she is acceptable to contradict Christ!

@Pearl, there is a a question in this post and in this post based upon your words.

She jumped in on her own, so she is adult enough to answer on her own.

You are showing her no love by reinforcing her lie that she thinks is true (Romans 1:32).

Or, do you not believe that of the new Jerusalem, the Apostle John wrote "nothing unclean, and no one who practices abomination and lying, shall ever come into it, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb's book of life" (Revelation 21:27)? Notice that no one who practices lying gets in, and a human subtracting the Word of God is the human lying.

Casting out demons in Jesus' name is NOT choosing Jesus; therefore, nothing in Luke 9:49-50 states man has the ability to choose Jesus; on the other hand, Jesus Himself says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) as well as "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation).

There are many scriptural points that prove Jesus says "you" to all His disciples in all time during the supper recorded in John chapters 13 to 17, and I plan to post them to you, @Wrangler and @Pearl.