Christ's Olivet Discourse

Davy · Feb 8, 2022

Christ's Olivet discourse He gave His disciples (and us) while He was upon the Mount of Olives east of Jerusalem, is one of the most important prophecies He gave His faithful Church for the end of this world. What He gave there were the main Signs of the end of this world leading up to His coming return. And those Signs parallel the events of Revelation 6 about the Seals.

There are 3 chapter witnesses of His Olivet discourse, one in Matthew 24, another in Mark 13, and another in Luke 21. Each version gives just a little bit more information, but all three are to be studied and compared. And I say this seriously that 'all three' must be studied. There are some false prophets in the world along with their false organizations that purposefully try to use Luke 21 only, and that so they can apply their own ideas, saying these Signs were all past history. They are not about the past, they are for the very end of this world leading up to Christ's future return. As a matter of fact, the very last Sign Jesus gave in it is the sign of His future coming and gathering of His faithful saints, (His Church).

Matt 24:1-3
24 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to Him for to shew Him the buildings of the temple.

2 And Jesus said unto them, "See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down."

3 And as He sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto Him privately, saying, "Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of Thy coming, and of the end of the world?"
KJV

Upon that Mount of Olives one can see the Temple Mount complex. In that day, there were several great buildings standing upon that mount, including the second temple the "house of Judah" (Jews) re-built after their return from their seventy years captivity to Babylon. Those buildings is what His disciples were pointing to.

Then Jesus told them ALL those stones of those buildings would one day be thrown down, not even one stone atop another. Then His disciples, who understood He was pointing to the end of this world, because they had the Old Testament prophets which points to that future day, they began to ask Him what would be the SIGN of His coming and of the end of the world. No brainer, their question was about the very END of this world.

Why do I make a distinction that their question was about His future coming, and the very end of this world? Because there's false preachers today that lie and instead try to get you to believe they were asking Jesus about the destruction of Jerusalem that happened back in 70 A.D. by general Titus and his Roman army.

Those false ones, whom God did not send, instead want you to think this Olivet Discourse by Christ is about past history, so no need to dwell on it for today, nor for the future! That is what their religious organizations teach those fake preachers to believe and to teach, which is to clearly deny Christ's Own Word here. OK, enough warning about listening to those fakes. But I'll make it easy for you. Notice the disciples asked Jesus what would be the SIGN of His coming. Did that already happen back in 70 A.D. Jerusalem? No, of course not, and the very last Sign Jesus gives in His Olivet discourse is that of His future coming. So you know those fake preachers simply tell lies, and actually have no intention of keeping Christ's Word here.

Matt 24:4-5
4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, "Take heed that no man deceive you.
5 For many shall come in my name, saying, 'I am Christ'; and shall deceive many."
KJV

Here is Christ's 1st Sign of the end. He warns to NOT allow any man to deceive us. Now was I trying to deceive by repeating His warning there? Some actually think so, they are so blinded spiritually away from heeding God's Word as written. But you're not going to do that, right reader?

Lord Jesus then tells us one of the ways that working of deception by man will come. He warns us that many will come in His name, saying, "I am Christ". Ever heard flesh men in the past several decades claim to be Jesus? Man, the list is actually very long! (go look it up). Just in my era I can remember Sun Moon, Jim Jones, etc. There have been many. Those are the "many antichrists" of 1 John 2:18. But they don't represent 'the Antichrist' that John said the brethren had 'already' heard shall come. Beware of those who try to tell you there is no single 'the Antichrist' coming, and try to treat 1 John 2:18 like its only pointing to many antichrists. Further down here in Matthew 24 Jesus will cover the warning about 'the Antichrist', a singular Antichrist that John also warned of, even though Jesus didn't use the term "antichrist". The word 'pseudochristos' is what Matthew 24:24 records in the Greek of what Lord Jesus said. It is the KJV phrase "false Christs". Dr. James Strong in his Strong's Exhaustive Concordance defined pseudochristos as singular, about "a spurious Messiah" (no. 5580). That's the actual tense of the Matthew 24:23-26 verses too, if you pay attention to them. And this is very important to get this right.

The 1st Seal of Revelation 6 just so happens to be about what? It's about a rider on a white horse wearing a wreath-like crown, and bearing a bow made of cheap fabric (Greek toxon). And he goes forth conquering. Did you know our Lord Jesus returns riding a white horse? (Rev.19). The 1st Seal then is about a false Christ, trying to copy the way Jesus comes. Thing is though, Jesus has a "golden crown" and also "many crowns" when He comes, and He wields a sword that cuts both ways. So it's very easy to tell the difference between these two riders on a white horse, and know for sure the one in Revelation 6 is a fake Christ.

Davy · Feb 8, 2022

Matt 24:6-7
6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
KJV

Who in their right mind, once they read and comprehend Lord Jesus' simple words there above, wouldn't laugh when they hear the fake preachers totally... bypass those "see that ye be not troubled" and "but the end is not yet" phrases, and instead... go on a wild endtime tangent about how bad things are going to be and how much those Left-behind will suffer going through the great tribulation, and just all sorts of rig-a-ma role!?

Didn't Jesus say to not be troubled when we hear of wars and rumors of wars? Yeah, He did say that. Why, because hearing about wars and rumors of wars is a pretty serious thing, so why not be troubled about it? Notice He also said, "for all these things must come to pass". Do you think He was trying to get us to note a different time that is going to be much more important to be watching? Yes, definitely, and He pointed to that more serious time as "the end". But what "end"? He is answering His disciples' question here, remember? Surely you haven't already forgotten what His disciples asked Him back Matthew 24:3?

OK then, so what did Lord Jesus mean with that "but the end is not yet"? Before I go there, let me bring this to your attention. Do you notice how many of the fake preachers just don't even bother to quote that "but the end is not yet" part, or they don't try to explain it? Is it because they just don't know what Lord Jesus was talking about, or what? Yeah, that's it, they just... don't... know! Or maybe it conflicts with their teaching of a false Pre-trib Rapture theory from men? And you bet it does... conflict that particular teaching.

Since Jesus foretold us that we'd hear of wars and rumors of wars, but ultimately that means the end is not yet, then what is the opposite of a time of wars? Yeah, that's right! a time of WORLD PEACE!

This is why Apostle Paul in 1 Thessalonians 5:1-4 told us that when the deceived start saying, "Peace and safety", then "sudden destruction" will come upon 'them'. Paul was covering the final day of this world with that, called the "day of the Lord". Apostle Peter in 2 Peter 3:10 said that "day of the Lord" is the day when God's consuming fire will burn man's works off this earth. That is the 'last day' of this present world. Daniel 8:23-25 is another example of the false one coming using 'peace' to deceive with.

But world peace is NOT the point of time Lord Jesus is covering in these early Matthew 24:6-7 verses; He only used that, "but the end is not yet" phrase as a small pointer to later events He will cover in this Chapter, the actual time of trouble at the very end just prior to His coming.

Davy · Feb 8, 2022

Matt 24:7-8
7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.

8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.
KJV

Have we been seeing those things in our era today, nation against nation, famines, pestilences, and earthquakes in various places? Yeah, big time. Are we now in the time of great tribulation then? No! Jesus named this timing of these things as, "the beginning of sorrows". That means a time just prior... to the time of "great tribulation". He will be more specific a little later in this Chapter about that.

But what do you most often hear today's preachers do with all this? Do they show the distinction Lord Jesus made here between the "beginning of sorrows" time vs. the "but the end is not yet"? No, at least I've never heard them cover this as written like I'm doing. It's a tradition to instead just try to scare the daylights out of you about these verses 4 thru 8. No wonder when the fake preachers instead start saying, "well you don't have to worry brethren, because you're gonna' be raptured out before all this happens!!!" So what are they expecting to happen before... their pre-trib rapture event? We are ALREADY in this "beginning of sorrows" timing today, with wars, famines, pestilences, and earthquakes. Why aren't we already raptured then?

It's because they made all that pre-trib rapture stuff up. Sad, but true. (Actually, it began first to be preached in 1830s Great Britain by the Edward Irving church, and then John Darby, and then Cyrus Scofield brought it to the Americas, and via his rich socialist buddies in New England that helped fund his Scofield Reference Bible.)

Matt 24:9-14
9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for My name's sake.

10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.

11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.

12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.

13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
KJV

The above has actually already been happening too, but mostly outside the Christian West, in places like the middle east, Africa, Indonesia, China, etc. Some Christians in far away places are already being beheaded for Christ today too. But this above still is NOT the time of "great tribulation" yet. Sure sounds like it though, doesn't it. It's not though, because the "great tribulation" will be about a special event that has never... happened during this present world, nor ever will again. Christ's servants have been being delivered up and executed for Jesus ever since the 1st century days of His disciples. Even Apostle Peter was crucified upside down in Rome (according The Book of the Martyrs).

Those above Matthew 24:9-14 verses are also about the very end though, the great tribulation. And it's about 'some' of Christ's elect that will be delivered up during the time of the beast to give a Testimony for Christ against them. We are told to not premeditate on what we will say in that 'hour', but to speak whatever The Holy Spirit gives us to speak.

That will be the fulfillment of prophecy about the cloven tongue that Peter quoted from the end of Joel 2, which is covering that just prior to the "day of the Lord" (just prior to the last day; see also Acts 2 where Peter quoted from the Book of Joel). God is going to speak through some of His elect servants against the beast during the coming great tribulation. Every people of every nation will hear in their own language of birth, just like what happened on Pentecost.

Are those Pre-trib preachers telling you about giving this Testimony for Christ during the very end? NO! They falsely claim we won't be here for that! And just who... would that lie be a service to? You got it, the devil definitely does not... want God to speak through His servants against the coming beast system so the whole... world will hear! That will be HOW Christ's servants will FIGHT during the great tribulation, not a physical battle with material weapons and such, but by The Word of God via The Holy Spirit cloven tongue! So naturally, the devil does not want us to think about doing that, and instead the devil wants us to be where... folks? that we will be gone, already raptured, like the false pre-trib rapture theory preaches!

Davy · Feb 8, 2022

Matt 24:15-21
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand

16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:

18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.

19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!

20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
KJV

Now those events... starting at verse 15 above, is about "the end", the time of "great tribulation".

It begins when the false Christ in Jerusalem will end the daily sacrifices and instead places the "abomination of desolation" IDOL inside the new temple in Jerusalem, and then demands all to bow to it, or be killed. That is about the "image of the beast" event of Revelation 13:14-15.

The detail of that future event in a newly built temple in Jerusalem is written in Daniel 9:27 and Daniel 11. The "vile person" (KJV) is who is described doing all that, making a "league" with the Jews in Jerusalem and allowing them to bring back old covenant worship. Then in the middle of the symbolic "one week" of Daniel 9:17, that false one will end the sacrifices and instead place the "abomination that maketh desolate" (meaning making the temple spiritually desolate with an idol).

The Daniel 9:17 symbolic "one week" is equal to a 7 year period per the 70 weeks prophecy in that Chapter. The time of "great tribulation" is NOT the whole 7 years period. It is the latter... half of the 'one week'. That means a period of 1260 days, or 42 months, or a time, times and half a time. The period that God's two witnesses will prophesy against the beast per Revelation 11 will be 1260 days. The beginning 1260 days period, that most likely will involve the rebuilding of the new temple in Jerusalem and starting up sacrifices again (the orthodox Jews already have the materials ready today to rebuild it).

Davy · Feb 8, 2022

Matt 24:19-20
19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!

20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
KJV

The above verses Jesus said within that "abomination of desolation" and "great tribulation" timing. But why would He say those things, like woe to them that are with child, and pray that your flight be not in winter?

It is very easy to think He simply meant to hope that women believers aren't pregnant so they can run fast, or to hope it's not 'winter' time because it will be freezing when you flee, etc. But that's not actually what He was pointing to, for those are analogies to something else. I mean think for a moment, what SYMBOLIC TIME did Jesus show He comes at? what season of time of the year? I'll give ya a hint. What time of year is the fall harvest time? Ooops, I gave it away, didn't I? It's the end of summer, the summer harvest time. Remember the sickle wielded when He comes to harvest? Remember how He associated the end of the world with the harvest of the angels in His parable of the tares of the field? And you do know per that parable His servants are represented as the good wheat that is harvested too. SUMMER is the proper time of His coming, NOT 'winter'. Is there another hint to that as a metaphor in His Word? Yes...

Rev 6:12-13
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
KJV

What kind of analogy is that about stars falling to earth? It's about Satan and his angels.

Notice another analogy given with it though, "even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs". What's that about? With fig horticulture (this is real nature now), there is such a thing as an 'untimely fig' that grows in the WINTER is falls off in the spring. It is an early fig, a WINTER fig.

How might that be applied regarding God's people in a spiritual sense? If you are like a symbolic 'untimely fig' and flee in WINTER, it spiritually points to what for the tribulation time? It means you did not WAIT for Christ to come afterwards, because the false Messiah is to come first, and you instead fell away to that false one thinking he is Christ. That is why you definitely do not... want your "flight" to be in "winter". You don't want to be an early fig; you want to wait on Jesus Christ.

Likewise with that "with child" analogy, it is about a spiritual idea. In 2 Corinthians 11, Apostle Paul said he wanted to present us to Christ as "a chaste virgin". Even Lord Jesus used the symbol of virgins to spiritually represent us, His Church. So just like being among the 'untimely figs', to be spiritually "with child" when He comes means you played the spiritual harlot, and fell away to the false Messiah that comes first! And when Jesus does come afterwards, He finds you spiritually "with child". Instead, you were supposed to remain "a chaste virgin" waiting on Jesus to come.

Davy · Feb 8, 2022

Matt 24:22
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
KJV

Matt 24:9
9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for My name's sake.
KJV

Matt 24:13
13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
KJV

Luke 21:16
16 And ye shall be betrayed both by parents, and brethren, and kinsfolks, and friends; and some of you shall they cause to be put to death.
KJV

Luke 21:17-19
17 And ye shall be hated of all men for My name's sake.
18 But there shall not an hair of your head perish.
19 In your patience possess ye your souls.
KJV

Notice Jesus said those days would be "shortened" for His elect's sake, meaning the time of the end, the "great tribulation", originally to be 1260 days per the Book of Daniel. Some like to dwell on the reason being what He said that, "there should no flesh be saved" if He didn't shorten that time. Most take that literally, but they also wrongly assign all the wars, famines, pestilences, and earthquakes for the actual "great tribulation" time also, which is wrong per what Jesus showed here.

In the above examples of Christ's Olivet discourse, He covers two groups that are to be delivered up. For one group, not a hair on their head will perish. But for "some of you", He said would be betrayed and be killed. Either way, we are not to fear those who can kill our flesh body, but not our soul, but fear Him Who can destroy both body and soul in the lake of fire (Matthew 10:28). I know most preachers don't like to cover that, but it is Scripture, and Lord Jesus said that about those to be delivered up during the great tribulation. I believe brethren should... know about it, because Jesus would not have given that if He didn't want us to know about that future event.

Davy · Feb 8, 2022

Matt 24:23-26
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, "Lo, here is Christ, or there"; believe it not.

24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

25 Behold, I have told you before.

26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, "Behold, He is in the desert"; go not forth: "behold, He is in the secret chambers"; believe it not.
KJV

"Then"... meaning in that "great tribulation" time Jesus just mentioned in verse 21.

There Lord Jesus is warning about a false Christ, a singular false Christ, 'the Antichrist' if you will. It is easy to be deceived with that "false Christs" phrase the KJV translators put there. But the actual Greek word for it is pseudochristos, made up of two Greek words. The Greek for singular Christ is Greek christos. And the Greek word pseudo means fake, or false, and is even used in English exactly like that, pseudo.

Notice how Dr. James Strong defined it in his Strong's Exhaustive Concordance:

NT:5580
pseudochristos (psyoo-dokh'-ris-tos); from NT:5571 and NT:5547; a spurious Messiah:

KJV - false Christs.
(Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright © 1994, 2003, 2006, 2010 Biblesoft, Inc. and International Bible Translators, Inc.)

Is that actually what Lord Jesus was talking about with "false Christs", as if He meant many false Christ's again like the Matthew 24:5 verse? No, in those above 23-26 verses He was pointing to "a spurious Messiah" just like Dr. James Strong defined it, because of the CONTEXT about someone coming up to you and say, "Lo, here is Christ, or there", or "Behold, He is in the desert", or "behold, He is in the secret chambers"! And Jesus said "believe it not."

Why then, aren't the Pre-trib Rapture churches teaching what our Lord Jesus taught here? Afterall, who was He speaking this to, because His Apostles and disciples with Him back then are already dead and buried. Since these events are tied to the Seals of Revelation 6, you ought to know that this is for, i.e., for His Church, and I mean for His faithful among His Church, not the followers of men's traditions instead of His Word.

Ronald D Milam · Feb 8, 2022

Davy said:
Christ's Olivet discourse He gave His disciples (and us) while He was upon the Mount of Olives east of Jerusalem, is one of the most important prophecies He gave His faithful Church for the end of this world. What He gave there were the main Signs of the end of this world leading up to His coming return. And those Signs parallel the events of Revelation 6 about the Seals.

For starters Rev. 6 are Prophesies about the coming 42 months of the Day of the Lord/God's Wrath AND The Anti-Christs 42 month parallel rule. You see these Judgments only come starting in Rev. 8 via the Trumpets, the 3rd Woe is the 7th Trump and the 3rd Woe is the 7 Vials, so every Judgments comes forth from the 7 Trumps (7 Thunders in Rev. 10).

So, knowing the above what parts of Matt. 24 can be seen in the 70th week tribulation? Only Matthew 24:15-31. Therefore we should understand that Matt. 24:4-14 can not be paralleled to Rev. 6, which really is only a prophetic uttering of what is to come in Rev. 8, 9 and 16 anyway. Starting out off kilter will thus have you going down rabbit holes.

All scriptures can be used, I mostly use Matt. 24, once you understand it, God has taught you what you need to know. If you get Matt. 24 wrong, you are probably going to get Luke 21 and Mark 13 wrong also.

Davy said:
Matt 24:1-3
24 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to Him for to shew Him the buildings of the temple.

2 And Jesus said unto them, "See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down."

3 And as He sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto Him privately, saying, "Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of Thy coming, and of the end of the world?"
KJV

You missed a BOLDING of one of the questions, WHEN SHALL THESE THINGS BE? Or the temples destruction. That was what Jesus told them about "See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down."

Davy said:
Why do I make a distinction that their question was about His future coming, and the very end of this world? Because there's false preachers today that lie and instead try to get you to believe they were asking Jesus about the destruction of Jerusalem that happened back in 70 A.D. by general Titus and his Roman army.

Those false ones whom God did not send instead want you to think this Discourse by Christ is about past history, so no need to dwell on it for today, nor for the future! That is what their religious organizations teach those fake preachers to believe and to teach, which is to clearly deny Christ's Own Word here. OK, enough warning about listening to those fakes. But I'll make it easy for you. Notice the disciples asked Jesus what would be the SIGN of His coming. Did that already happen back in 70 A.D. Jerusalem? No, of course not, and the very last Sign Jesus gives in His Olivet discourse is that of His future coming. So you know those fake preachers are simply tell lies, and actually have no intention of keeping Christ's Word here.

Now we see why you did not bold the very first question, WHEN SHALL THESE THINGS BE? Because you do not understand that verses 4-6 were about the 70 AD fall of Jerusalem. Three questions were asked not two.

"Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of Thy coming, and of the end of the world?"

When shall the temple be destroyed? AND what is the sign of your coming? AND of the end of the world? (age of man).

You not bolding the first question doesn't make it go away sir. It just confuses you it seems.

Davy said:
Matt 24:4-5
4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, "Take heed that no man deceive you.
5 For many shall come in my name, saying, 'I am Christ'; and shall deceive many."
KJV

Here is Christ's 1st Sign of the end. He warns to NOT allow any man to deceive you. Now was I trying to deceive by repeating His warning there? Some actually think so, they are so blinded spiritually away from heeding God's Word as written. But you're not going to do that, right reader?

Lord Jesus then tells us one of the ways that working of deception by man will come. He warns us that many will come in His name, saying, "I am Christ". Ever heard flesh men in the past several decades claim to be Jesus? Man, and the list is long! (go look it up). Just in my era I can remember Sun Moon, Jim Jones, etc. There have many. Those are the "many antichrists" of 1 John 2:18. But they don't represent 'the Antichrist' that John said the brethren had 'already' shall come. Further down here in Matthew 24 Jesus will cover the warning about 'the Antichrist', a singular Antichrist that John also warned of, even though Jesus didn't use the term "antichrist". Jesus used the Greek term 'pseudochristos'.

The 1st Seal of Revelation 6 just so happens to be about what? It's about a rider on a white horse wearing a wreath-like crown, and bearing a bow made of cheap fabric (Greek toxon). And he goes forth conquering. Did you know our Lord Jesus returns riding a white horse? (Rev.19). The 1st Seal then is about a false Christ, trying to copy the way Jesus comes. Thing is though, Jesus has a "golden crown" and also "many crowns" when He comes, and He wields a sword that cuts both ways. So it's very easy to tell the difference between these two riders on a white horse, and know for sure the one in Revelation 6 is a fake Christ.

Wrong, this is 70 AD, the destruction of the temple. Jesus is speaking unto his disciples not to be deceived by fake christs put forth by the Pharisees/Jewish leaders who tried to save themselves from the Fourth Beast (Rome) thereby fulfilling John 5:43, where Jesus stated that they (Pharisees) would not accept him who came in the Fathers name, but [THEY] would accept another who came in his own name. This has nothing to do with end time events. That is why Jesus warns them not to return at that time, it will not be me, because the end (70th week) is by and by. (NOT NOW)

The Anti-Christ on a White Horse signifies he comes as a Conqueror. Matt. 24:4-6 is about 70 AD and Matt. 24:7-14 is about the Church Age, the 70th week is not seen in Matt. 24 until verse 15.

You came to a conclusion long ago that was wrong. I proved it in error but you can't accept the facts. But you will find out in heaven you were in error. God wants us to teach truths, so if you live in a shack in Heaven, just remember why? When someone proves you in error you can't accept it. My position is PLEASE PROVE ME WRONG Holy Spirit, that way I am always learning, I used to think the same as you about Matt. 24.

Of course I have always understand the Rapture is Pre Trib. I am very wary of anything anyone says who doesn't grasp this tbh.

Davy · Feb 10, 2022

Ronald D Milam said:
For starters Rev. 6 are Prophesies about the coming 42 months of the Day of the Lord/God's Wrath AND The Anti-Christs 42 month parallel rule. You see these Judgments only come starting in Rev. 8 via the Trumpets, the 3rd Woe is the 7th Trump and the 3rd Woe is the 7 Vials, so every Judgments comes forth from the 7 Trumps (7 Thunders in Rev. 10).

Uh... you are WRONG!

ONLY the 6th Seal of Revelation 6 is about the "day of the Lord"; that is the specific day of Christ's Wrath the wicked on that Seal are complaining about that is coming upon them at that point, and with seeing Christ, and even The Father sitting upon His throne. Instead of your heeding men's words, why not simply listen to what Jesus showed John on that 6th Seal?

Rev 6:12-17
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

16 And said to the mountains and rocks, "Fall on us, and hide us from the face of Him That sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

17 For the great day of His wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?"
KJV

That above 6th Seal event is the "day of the Lord", which is the day God pours out His Wrath upon the wicked. It is NOT the "great tribulation" time which is PRIOR to that great day of His Wrath. That is God's Wrath on the 7th Trumpet, and on the 7th Vial also.

You are not understanding that is the 'day' Paul was pointing to in 1 Thessalonians 5:1-3 about the deceived when they say, "Peace and safety", and then "sudden destruction" comes upon them. That event of "sudden destruction" is... that "day of the Lord" Paul taught there for the LAST DAY of this world. Pre-trib WRONGLY teaches the "day of the Lord" is the "great tribulation" time; it is not.

And by that ERROR of YOURS, the rest of your post just FALLS APART!

Davy · Feb 10, 2022

(Continued from post #7 above...)

The previous section of Matthew 24 Scripture covered Jesus' warning to His Church about the coming pseudo-Christ that will come for the "great tribulation" time and place an abomination idol in a new temple in Jerusalem, and demand all to bow to it and take his mark (see Daniel 9:27; Daniel 11; Daniel 8:23-25; and Revelation 13:4-17). This next section will reveal the time of Lord Jesus' future return, and... how He gathers His Church...

Matt 24:27-31
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Lord Jesus showed in Matthew 24:23-26 that the coming pseudo-Christ will appear with the deceived saying "Lo, here is Christ, or there". And Jesus said to "believe it not." In this 27th verse above though, Lord Jesus gives us a comparison to how He... will return, and it certainly will not just be someone coming up to you and saying, "Lo, here is Christ, or there". His coming every eye will see, even those who pierced Him (Revelation 1:7). That is how He is showing His future coming in the above verse, using the idea of how we can see lightning strike from one end of the sky to the other. Thus His coming will be easy for all peoples to notice.

28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.

If you have studied the Luke 17 Chapter where Jesus talks about two women grinding at the mill, one taken and the other left, two men working in the field, one taken and the other left, etc., then you SHOULD know this 28th verse is a parallel to His warning in the last verse of Luke 17. If you are one of the 1st ones taken, it means you will be like a dead "carcase" at wheresoever the eagles are gathered, and that ain't good. Wait on Jesus, don't be taken to the fowls that will feast on your soul (i.e., pseudo-Christ and his servants).

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
KJV

There... Lord Jesus TOLD US WHEN He comes to gather His faithful Church! Will you listen to HIM, or listen to men's doctrines that go against that instead? Just how important is your soul to you?

Some doctrines of men falsely teach that this Olivet discourse by our Lord Jesus is not for His Church! They instead LIE... and wrongly teach that this is all for the Jews just because that's who made up most of His disciples at the time. No, this is for ALL His Church, then, and even now.

There's something special there too about what He taught there of His sending His angels to gather His Church. The Matthew 24:31 verse is just a little different than the Mark 13 version. BOTH together directly parallel what Apostle Paul taught in 1 Thessalonians 4 about Jesus' future coming and gathering of His Church.

Matthew 24:31
And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Mark 13:27
27 And then shall He send His angels, and shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.
KJV

Apostle Paul taught in 1 Thessalonians 4 that Jesus when He comes will bring the "asleep" saints with Him. That is about those in the Matthew 24:29 verse, gathered "from one end of heaven to the other".

But those whom Paul taught that are still alive and remain (i.e. on earth), those are "caught up" to Jesus and them, when He comes. That is about those of the Mark 13:27 verse, gathered "from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven."

That means Apostle Paul got that event of Christ's gathering of His Church FROM RIGHT HERE, in Jesus' Olivet discourse!! For Apostle Paul is in direct agreement with what Lord Jesus taught here about His gathering of His saints.

(continued...)

Davy · Feb 10, 2022

Continued...

Matt 24:32-36
32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:

Simple explanation, when you see the fig tree sprouting leaves, you know summer is near. In the middle east, the fig begins to appear on the tree prior to leaves showing. Thus Jesus cursed the fig tree when He saw its leaves only, because it should have had figs already on it (see Matthew 21:19). The last summer harvest of the fig was around August.

In Jeremiah 8, when those of Jerusalem-Judea were rebellious against God, He said there would be no grapes on their vine, nor figs on the fig tree, and the leaf shall fade. In Hosea 9:10, God compares Israel to grapes in the wilderness, and their fathers as the firstripe of the fig tree. In Jeremiah 24, God compared Judah to the good basket of figs that God showed Jeremiah by vision. This is part of Lord Jesus' parable of the fig tree here.

Since Lord Jesus is pointing to the day of His coming and gathering of His Church in the previous section, this relates to the analogy of summer harvest being near to the time of His coming and sending the angels to harvest, both the "tares" and the "good wheat" (see Matthew 13 about the parable of the tares of the field).

33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

The above is simple, and it's still tied to the Jews in the holy land and the parable of the fig tree. The generation He is pointing to is the FINAL generation that will 'see' "all these things", meaning all those Signs He gave there in His Olivet discourse. It will be THAT... generation that will SEE Jesus' future return.

If you listen to the hirelings, they say ignorant things about the above verses that this applied to the generation there with Jesus upon that Mount of Olives. Those are not given to understand God's Word, so they must default to the doctrines of the 'crept in unawares' of the Book of Jude.

Jesus' second coming is still future to us, but the last Sign Jesus gave in the above was that of His future return and gathering of His Church. So HOW could all this be only for the generation of His Apostles? That's a totally stupid idea, so it's not difficult to figure out that there are false ones crept into a lot of Christ's Churches today teaching lies against His Word.

35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but My words shall not pass away.
36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but My Father only.
KJV

The idea of heaven and earth passing away is for what day? That happens on the "day of the Lord" per Apostles Paul and Peter, even God's consuming fire burning man's works off this earth (2 Peter 3:10). So you definitely KNOW... that did not happen in the days of Christ's Apostles! Don't listen to the date setters either brethren, for like Jesus said above, no man knows the 'day and hour' of His coming, only The Father knows.

Matt 24:37-42
But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
KJV

The main idea in the above verses is that Lord Jesus told His Church to... WATCH. But did He tell us what to watch for? Actually... HE DID! What do you think all these Signs of the end He gave are about? They are part of the "times and the seasons" that Paul said he had no need to teach the brethren in 1 Thessalonians 5, for they already knew them. They knew what to WATCH.

Once again, IF you already understand Lord Jesus' answer and warning at the end of Luke 17, then you well know being the 1st one 'taken' means to be taken to wheresoever the fowls are gathered that eat on a dead carcase. It means those preaching the Left-behind doctrine are telling a huge LIE.

Now Lord Jesus is going to contrast His faithful that WATCH like He commanded, vs. those who do not...

Matt 24:43-47
43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.

Does that mean Christ's servants are supposed to know... in 'what' watch... the thief will come? YES! it does mean exactly that.

But some will say, "but I thought Jesus said no man knows the day or hour of His coming?" That's right, no man knows when that is, however... what is this order of the Signs about that He was giving us here in His Olivet discourse?? They are the Signs of the End leading up to His future coming and gathering of His Church. This is why these Signs here also parallel the Signs given in His Book of Revelation, particularly the Seals.

Did you know that Lord Jesus is still warning His faithful Church on the 6th Vial that He comes "as a thief", and those who 'watch' are blessed, and keep their garments, unless one walks naked and in shame? (Revelation 16:15).

44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

Not only 'be ready', but also be WATCHING these Signs He gave, like He commanded us.

45 Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?
46 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.
47 Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods.
KJV

Remember Hebrews 5 with Paul rebuking those brethren there because when it was time they should have become teachers, they were still sucking on the "milk" of God's Word, and not on the "strong meat"? These remain in the field working for Christ, giving their servants the "strong meat", and when Jesus does come, THAT is what He finds them doing! Not the first one taken, but the one left-behind still working in the field, still grinding at the mill, giving out The Strong Meat in due season!

Now about those who do NOT WATCH these Signs of the End Jesus gave His Church...

Matt 24:48-51
48 But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, "My lord delayeth his coming";

49 And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;

50 The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,

51 And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
KJV

When Lord Jesus said about the evil servant, "The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him...", what does that mean? It means the evil servant here won't be 'watching', but why? Mainly because they are told they DON'T HAVE TO be watching! They instead are told things like, "don't worry, you're not going to be here for the tribulation, you'll be raptured before that, so just be ready."

Those in Christ are... to know "the times and the seasons" like Apostle Paul said. That is what these SIGNS are about that Jesus gave His Church in His Olivet discourse. They are Signs leading up to the 'day' of His future coming on the "day of the Lord". And it will be on that 'day' when He gathers His faithful Church to Himself.

Ronald D Milam · Feb 10, 2022

Davy said:
Uh... you are WRONG!

Revelation and wrong do not fit with my name or understandings thereof. God has blessed me with a gift of understanding that book, now if I was guessing as most do, I might could be wrong. I see stuff most have never even contemplated brother. The Seals not being judgments seems to escape you. That's on you, not me, I can only lead the horse to the water I cant make him drink.

Davy said:
ONLY the 6th Seal of Revelation 6 is about the "day of the Lord"; that is the specific day of Christ's Wrath the wicked on that Seal are complaining about that is coming upon them at that point, and with seeing Christ, and even The Father sitting upon His throne. Instead of your heeding men's words, why not simply listen to what Jesus showed John on that 6th Seal?

For you to say anything in the book of Revelation has to be specifically pointed unto one certain point in time via an observation, when you don't understand the timelines is what make you get off kilter. The whole book of Revelation is in the future, the Seals are not only in the future but are prophetic in nature, thus when Jesus opens the Seals he is only opening a scroll that has the coming Judgments SEALED UP (That's why thy are called seals) and thus as Jesus opens each seal he prophesies what's about to befall mankind when God's Wrath finally falls in the midway section (1260) of the 70th week of Jacobs troubles. Jesus stated in John 16:33 that in this world we would always have troubles. Thus all times are troubles. You seem to not understand that the "Greatest Ever Troubles" are just God telling us these times will be like none ever seen by Israel and the world before, and which will never be seen again. This gives us a bearing, 70AD can't be that time, WW2 can't be that time, it can only be a time when 1/4 of all peoples are killed by one man.

The False Prophet places the Abomination of Desolation (AoD) at the 1290, which happens 30 days before the Anti-Christ goes forth conquering at the 1260, thus the Jews who have already repented flee Judea 30 days before the Anti-Christ conquers Jerusalem, this is Jacobs TIME OF TROUBLES, it will be a trouble like never seen before on earth. It doesn't just affect Israel but the rest of the region and parts of all the world will be led by dictators at that time also. The coming Anti-Christ will kill 1/4 of all men that he is over, either in the whole world, or in the European and Mediterranean Sea Region. Thus his death toll will be in the 100's of millions or maybe even over a billion people. So his reign lasts for 1260 days. This timeline parallels with God's Wrath because he is 1.) NOT ALLOWD to go forth conquering until the Wrath of God falls or 2.) Chooses to go forth conquering as per Satan's instructions only when God's Wrath falls. Thereby he will have 1/3 of the world destroyed for him by God's Wrath (I think the USA and the whole pacific realm will be destroyed by Apophis) thus he will have free reign at that time, Russia, Iran and Turkeys Armies are destroyed in the Gog & Magog war before this happens.

This is why guys like you fail to get the "TIMINIGS" right brother, and no one can't understand the book of Revelation until you understand the timings. You just do not understand the difference between God's Wrath and the TIMES OF Jacobs Troubles. One is Israel's 1260 day troubles caused by Satan and his Anti-Christ thug Beast, as Zechariah 13:8-9 says 1/3 of the Jews REPENT and turn unto God just BEFORE the DOTL (as seen in Zechariah 14:1-2), we know its the Day of the Lord because the verse verse says so. Then verse 2 shows the Anti-Christ conquering Israel, Gog and Magog are defeated TWO DIFFERENT WARS !!

Zechariah 14:1 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee. 2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken...

The other is God's Wrath which comes on ONE DAY, but lasts 42 months. The Trumpet Judgments are God's Wrath and the 5th Trump (3rd Woe) lasts for 5 months, so why is it that you think the Day of the Lord is one day, that is just an indefensible argument. The Day of the Lord is ONE DAY in which God's Wrath starts, just like the flood started on one day but it took many days of rain before the floods came. Do you not understand this concept? The Trumps hit (an asteroid strike) and when this Asteroid Strikes the Anti-Christ goes forth conquering knowing the whole world we be in chaos at this time, with 1/3 of the world out of commission so to speak, with China just indifferent commies and with Russia, Iran and Turkey having no Armies left after Gog & Magog.

The 6th Seal, as I stated is God SHOWING/TELLING John what will come when the last seal is off and the Trumpet Judgments start. Saying this can't be the case is like saying John can't see anything in Revelation then because he is being shown all things in the HEREAFTER !! (Future events) Yes, those events John was shown were indeed Judgment events, but not at the Sixth Seal, that seals are Prophetic utterances by Jesus, just like Joel 2:31 was Prophetic utterances well over 2000 years ago. Its actually odd hearing someone say Jesus can't prophesy as he opens the seals. We see no Seal Judgments ever being readied like we see the Trumpets and Vials.

Rev. 6:6 And the seven angels which had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound.

Rev. 15:1 And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvellous, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is filled up the wrath of God.

The above scriptures do two things, they prove 100% that God's Wrath is not ONE DAY, here we see after the 5 Months of Woe #1 that the 7 Last Plagues "FILL UP" or finishes up God's Wrath !! So, that one day theory is debunked, that argument is history brother !!

Also, as we can see in both cases above, the Trumpet Judgments are readied to SOUND and the Vial Judgments are readied to be POURED OUT. Now go find anywhere in the 6th chapter where the Seal Judgments are readied to do anything. Jesus is only showing John what is going to come to pass when the Trumpet judgments sound, which will then bring God's Wrath.

Davy said:
That above 6th Seal event is the "day of the Lord", which is the day God pours out His Wrath upon the wicked. It is NOT the "great tribulation" time which is PRIOR to that great day of His Wrath. That is God's Wrath on the 7th Trumpet, and on the 7th Vial also.

You are not understanding that is the 'day' Paul was pointing to in 1 Thessalonians 5:1-3 about the deceived when they say, "Peace and safety", and then "sudden destruction" comes upon them. That event of "sudden destruction" is... that "day of the Lord" Paul taught there for the LAST DAY of this world. Pre-trib WRONGLY teaches the "day of the Lord" is the "great tribulation" time; it is not.

And by that ERROR of YOURS, the rest of your post just FALLS APART!

The SUDDEN Destruction is like the flood. They laughed at Noah, then when the rains came nothing, the flood came later/SUDDENLY. After the Rapture, people on earth do not realize it, but their fate is sealed, they will all go through God's Wrath, but that destruction, like the flood, will come BOOM, all at once. Not when it first starts raining and not right after the Rapture, but BOOM, when the Asteroid strikes the earth at the 1260 middle of the week mark. So, yes, the first 3.5 years will be Peace and Safety, then BOOM, as soon as God's Wrath strikes the Anti-Christ who hears Dark Sentences(Hears Satan's voice) will know its his time to go forth conquering.

Its all the same 1260 days. God's Wrath comes and the Anti-Christ uses this time of chaos to go forth conquering, thereby killing 2/3 of the Jews. The other 1/3 (3-5 million Jews) are in the Petra and/or Bozrah area, living without air conditioners, knowing most of their families have been murdered (8-10 million people )that is times of troubles.

GRACE ambassador · Feb 11, 2022

Ronald D Milam said:
I can only lead the horse to the water I cant make him drink.

Amen! He has to be thirsty for The Truth!

amadeus · Feb 11, 2022

GRACE ambassador said:
Amen! He has to be thirsty for The Truth!

"Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled." Matt 5:6

Davy · Feb 11, 2022

Ronald D Milam said:
Revelation and wrong do not fit with my name or understandings thereof. God has blessed me with a gift of understanding that book, now if I was guessing as most do, I might could be wrong. I see stuff most have never even contemplated brother. The Seals not being judgments seems to escape you. That's on you, not me, I can only lead the horse to the water I cant make him drink.

That's some of the most pumped up conceit I have ever heard from someone who claims to be a Christian. I guess you never read what Apostle Peter said that there is no prophecy in the Scriptures that is of private interpretation (2 Peter 1:20).

When did I ever say the Seals didn't involve judgments? What you're wanting to do is to pile God's Wrath of 1 Thessalonians 5:9 upon all the Seals, and Vials, and I guess Trumpets too. But if you had studied... the Old Testament Books of the prophets LIKE YOU WERE SUPPOSED TO DO, you would have understood just what period of WRATH he was talking about!

But here you give me a bunch of stupid HOLIER THAN THOU ATTITUDE, when you show your BIBLICAL IGNORANCE of what time Apostle Paul was teaching about in 1 Thessalonians 5!!

What event do you think that "sudden destruction" upon the wicked is about on the "day of the Lord" per 1 Thessalonians 5:2-3??? That is the 'day' of that "wrath" Paul was pointing to.

But OH YEAH, I forgot, the FALSE PRE-TRIB RAPTURE DOCTORS LIE and teach you that the "day of the Lord" is the "great tribulation" time!!! IT IS... NOT!

It is THIS kind of time...

Isa 2:12-22
12 For the day of the LORD of hosts shall be upon every one that is proud and lofty, and upon every one that is lifted up; and he shall be brought low:
13 And upon all the cedars of Lebanon, that are high and lifted up, and upon all the oaks of Bashan,
14 And upon all the high mountains, and upon all the hills that are lifted up,
15 And upon every high tower, and upon every fenced wall,
16 And upon all the ships of Tarshish, and upon all pleasant pictures.
17 And the loftiness of man shall be bowed down, and the haughtiness of men shall be made low: and the LORD alone shall be exalted in that day.
18 And the idols He shall utterly abolish.
19 And they shall go into the holes of the rocks, and into the caves of the earth, for fear of the LORD, and for the glory of His majesty, when He ariseth to shake terribly the earth.
20 In that day a man shall cast his idols of silver, and his idols of gold, which they made each one for himself to worship, to the moles and to the bats;
21 To go into the clefts of the rocks, and into the tops of the ragged rocks, for fear of the LORD, and for the glory of His majesty, when He ariseth to shake terribly the earth.
22 Cease ye from man, whose breath is in his nostrils: for wherein is he to be accounted of?
KJV

THAT is NOT about the time of "great tribulation", the 42 months when the Antichrist is to reign at the end of this world! Those Pre-trib rapture preachers that think LIKE YOU can't even read the SIMPLE SCRIPTURE like these!! IT IS BECAUSE YOU DON'T REALLY CARE... WHAT GOD'S WORD SAYS! OTHERWISE YOU WOULD HEED THESE SCRIPTURES about the "day of the Lord" that happens on THE LAST DAY OF THIS WORLD. Oh, didn't you notice on that day all the IDOLS are abolished by God there? That means and END to the "abomination of desolation" idol that fake Christ is to setup up in Jerusalem for the TRIBULATION! The tribulation is OVER when these Scriptures happen about the "day of the Lordl"!

Isa 13:6-9
6 Howl ye; for the day of the LORD is at hand; it shall come as a destruction from the Almighty.
7 Therefore shall all hands be faint, and every man's heart shall melt:
8 And they shall be afraid: pangs and sorrows shall take hold of them; they shall be in pain as a woman that travaileth: they shall be amazed one at another; their faces shall be as flames.
9 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.
KJV

THAT... is the "sudden destruction" Apostle Paul was pointing to in 1 Thessalonians 5, you white-washed wall! That happens on the "day of the Lord", the last day of this world! not the great tribulation!

Joel 3:13-18
13 Put ye in the sickle, for the harvest is ripe: come, get you down; for the press is full, the fats overflow; for their wickedness is great.
14 Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision: for the day of the LORD is near in the valley of decision.
15 The sun and the moon shall be darkened, and the stars shall withdraw their shining.
16 The LORD also shall roar out of Zion, and utter his voice from Jerusalem; and the heavens and the earth shall shake: but the LORD will be the hope of His people, and the strength of the children of Israel.
17 So shall ye know that I am the LORD your God dwelling in Zion, My holy mountain: then shall Jerusalem be holy, and there shall no strangers pass through her any more.
18 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the mountains shall drop down new wine, and the hills shall flow with milk, and all the rivers of Judah shall flow with waters, and a fountain shall come forth of the house of the LORD, and shall water the valley of Shittim.
KJV

That "day of the Lord" is when GOD comes to END THIS PRESENT WORLD, and destroys the beast and his beast kingdom!

Zeph 1:14-18
14 The great day of the LORD is near, it is near, and hasteth greatly, even the voice of the day of the LORD: the mighty man shall cry there bitterly.
15 That day is a day of wrath, a day of trouble and distress, a day of wasteness and desolation, a day of darkness and gloominess, a day of clouds and thick darkness,
16 A day of the trumpet and alarm against the fenced cities, and against the high towers.
17 And I will bring distress upon men, that they shall walk like blind men, because they have sinned against the LORD: and their blood shall be poured out as dust, and their flesh as the dung.
18 Neither their silver nor their gold shall be able to deliver them in the day of the LORD's wrath; but the whole land shall be devoured by the fire of his jealousy: for he shall make even a speedy riddance of all them that dwell in the land.
KJV

So Satan's little tribulation is still going on when God does all that above, eh? Blind leaders of the blind, that's who you follow. You can't get out of the ditch anymore than those fakes you follow on the false Pre-trib Rapture tradition from men.

Zech 14:1-5
14 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
3 Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
4 And His feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with Thee.
KJV

There's JESUS' COMING on that DAY OF THE LORD! WOW! and His Word says He then gathers "all nations against Jerusalem to battle"! That's the battle of ARMAGEDDON on the LAST DAY! (Rev.16). But your fake Pre-trib Rapture theory says the "day of the Lord" is the "great tribulation" time!!! You think the beast will be able to overpower Jesus on that "day of the Lord" when He comes? The theory from men you follow is so far away from the written Word of God that it is just nothing but... of the devil!

2 Peter 3:10
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
KJV

How will the beast and his servants still be working when consuming fire from God comes down and burns their evil works off this earth?? Oh, I forgot, you don't believe Apostle Peter there, you instead heed men's fake theory of a pre-trib rapture.

Randy Kluth · Feb 11, 2022

Davy said:
Christ's Olivet discourse He gave His disciples (and us) while He was upon the Mount of Olives east of Jerusalem, is one of the most important prophecies He gave His faithful Church for the end of this world. What He gave there were the main Signs of the end of this world leading up to His coming return. And those Signs parallel the events of Revelation 6 about the Seals.

You're basically saying that those who think the Olivet Discourse was about the destruction of Jerusalem are false teachers. And yet, I think perhaps most of the commentators in history would differ with you, including myself. That is exactly what Jesus said, and I have compared all 3 versions.

All 3 versions speak of the destruction of the temple stone by stone, and this happened in 70 AD. Since the temple was destroyed the prophecy was fulfilled. After all, Jesus said it would happen in his generation, and it did.

None of this means the Discourse didn't also have something to say about future prophecy. It did. Jesus said that the Jewish Tribulation, to begin in his own generation, would continue throughout the age until the very end of the age. Jewish Tribulation has indeed taken place throughout this time!

The return of Christ is something Jesus' Disciples asked him about because they were confused--how could Jesus say the temple would fall and the Jews be judged if Messiah was already with them? They did not yet see that Jesus would die and be gone a long time before Israel was brought back to God!

And so, Jesus put off his Return and focused on the judgment that was imminent. Nothing about this denies future prophecy. Your assumption is false, and in fact, mean-spirited. Many good men have thought the way you condemn as evil.

Ronald D Milam · Feb 12, 2022

Davy said:
That's some of the most pumped up conceit I have ever heard from someone who claims to be a Christian. I guess you never read what Apostle Peter said that there is no prophecy in the Scriptures that is of private interpretation (2 Peter 1:20).

Ahhhhhh, seems he wants me to lie or deny the facts God has taught me. So, when you get to heaven brother, and you understand everything I told you about the book of Revelation was true, then maybe it will dawn on you that truth overrides your so called "conceited" theories. I went 37 years preaching and teaching, called to Prophecy, and I never told anyone what the book of Revelation meant in full, because even though I have always recognized the Spirit of Truth when I hear it, on the book of Revelation I never heard God's truths, so I never spoke of, "my understands as facts" until about 6 or 7 years ago when God started revealing His truths unto me because of this below.

One day while praying I asked God why the Church was so confused in these last days when God was supposed to pour out His spirit of truth out on the Church, and I thus asked why we have 100s of understandings of whom the Harlot is, who the 144,000 are and who Babylon is, and I got this "Ron, you guys already know it all" and that was all I needed to know, God was telling me that OUR IDEAS (Men's Truths of old) or Men's Traditions as Jesus called them unto the Pharisees were STOPPING us from hearing God's Truths, so I put off ALL THNGS and ALL ASSUMPTIONS passed down and with a clear mind I simply asked God to teach me His truths about Prophecy and Daniel/Revelation etc. as He once did with the Gospels, and I put off things I learned from men which God says BLOCKS US from learning His truths, and BOOM, boom, boom, things started coming in really fast. All because there were now (starting at that time) no ROADBLOCKS.

So, if God only starts pouring out this blessing in the END TIMES and you got all of your info from passed down doctrines of men, you are not in the loop. I know the entire book of Revelation, and what it means, and the exact Chronological Order of the book of Revelation. And I am not ashamed I know this via God's teaching me, try asking God and He may do the same for you, but we must ask first. If I knew knew 1000 math problems in a book and stated I knew every problem would that be "CONCIET or fact?

As per what Paul says, I just destroyed that thesis above. I actually understand it, you don't seem to quite grasp it, in my opinion tbh.

Davy said:
When did I ever say the Seals didn't involve judgments? What you're wanting to do is to pile God's Wrath of 1 Thessalonians 5:9 upon all the Seals, and Vials, and I guess Trumpets too. But if you had studied... the Old Testament Books of the prophets LIKE YOU WERE SUPPOSED TO DO, you would have understood just what period of WRATH he was talking about!

For starters, I read all of the Old Testament as a matter of fact you can't understand the book of Revelation (BoR) unless you know the Old Testament, out of 404 verses in the BoR 289 have old testament verbiage.

Secondly, you do not seem to understand what I stated about the Seals, at all. I stated the Seals ARE NOT Judgments, and that they are only Jesus PROPHESYING about the COMING Judgments which only start with the Trumpets in Rev. 8. So, either you can't comprehend my points, or you do not read and try to give an answer anyway (which I would never do, that's rude).

All of God's Wrath are in the Seven Trumps (Seven Thunders of Rev. 10 is a FLASH FORWARD to the end) the 7 Vials only come from the 7th Trump, they are the 3rd Woe. Nothing comes from the Seals, think of them as the same as Joel 2:31, Prophetic in Nature, just much closer to the events being Prophesied about. As a matter of fact Joel 2:30-31 and the 6th Seal are one and the same Prophesy just over 2000 years apart. Jesus is just painting a picture with a 7 Sealed Scroll Vision, its just a vision, there is no scroll just like there is no 7 Headed Beast you do understand that right? So, Jesus is paining a picture of him in Heaven, about to read the Book of Judgments, he opens each seal then foretells what is about to fall on mankind when the Trumpets finally start coming. The Seals DO NOTHING. All of the Judgments are in the 7 Trumps.

Davy said:
But here you give me a bunch of stupid HOLIER THAN THOU ATTITUDE, when you show your BIBLICAL IGNORANCE of what time Apostle Paul was teaching about in 1 Thessalonians 5!!

The ignorance is yours brother not mine.

Davy said:
What event do you think that "sudden destruction" upon the wicked is about on the "day of the Lord" per 1 Thessalonians 5:2-3??? That is the 'day' of that "wrath" Paul was pointing to.

But OH YEAH, I forgot, the FALSE PRE-TRIB RAPTURE DOCTORS LIE and teach you that the "day of the Lord" is the "great tribulation" time!!! IT IS... NOT!

No one teaches me anything but God. The Pre Trib Rapture is self evident. I notice when I give the 7 Feasts you never reply, you can't overcome those facts so you just dodge them. I just DESTROYED your ONE DAY theory and you DODGED that also.

Ronald D Milam · Feb 12, 2022

Davy said:
THAT is NOT about the time of "great tribulation", the 42 months when the Antichrist is to reign at the end of this world! Those Pre-trib rapture preachers that think LIKE YOU can't even read the SIMPLE SCRIPTURE like these!! IT IS BECAUSE YOU DON'T REALLY CARE... WHAT GOD'S WORD SAYS! OTHERWISE YOU WOULD HEED THESE SCRIPTURES about the "day of the Lord" that happens on THE LAST DAY OF THIS WORLD. Oh, didn't you notice on that day all the IDOLS are abolished by God there? That means and END to the "abomination of desolation" idol that fake Christ is to setup up in Jerusalem for the TRIBULATION! The tribulation is OVER when these Scriptures happen about the "day of the Lordl"!

Stop citing preachers unto me, I have been called to preach for over 37 years. The problem is those who were not called to prophecy, think they were. It's evident you weren't called to Prophecy brother, legs ought to be legs, Paul said that....

What you do is TALK and SHOUT but you never listen. The Day of the Lord lasts 42 months, you refusing to admit that the 5th Trump lasts 5 months itself just proves the FACTS don't really mater to you, you know I destroyed your ONE DAY Argument so you obfuscate the facts by saying something else, which never works with me.

The Day of the Lord lasts 42 months so of course it will start on ONE DAY and it will end on ONE DAY. However, many see the Day of the Lord as the ONE DAY Jesus starts taking over from Satan's rule, he does so by Wrath but that RULE then lasts for 1000 years on this earth, so the Day of the Lord has a double meaning. Anyone who can add understands that Day of the Lord is not ONE DAY. The 5th Trumpet (First Woe) lasts for 5 months.

Davy said:
That "day of the Lord" is when GOD comes to END THIS PRESENT WORLD, and destroys the beast and his beast kingdom!

The ONE DAY God's Wrath starts on. You seem to have a hard time understanding these simple concepts.

Davy said:
So Satan's little tribulation is still going on when God does all that above, eh? Blind leaders of the blind, that's who you follow. You can't get out of the ditch anymore than those fakes you follow on the false Pre-trib Rapture tradition from men.

Yes, because God DESYROYS 1/3 of the World, and Jesus is not going to rule in that part but in Jerusalem, have you never contemplated that? The 1/3 of the Trees that burn will be the USA and Canada, Mexico, South America. Psstt, the 1/3 IMHO (see I can't prove this scripturally so I use IMHO) since the Holy Spirit has led me in this direction, is not so much per se how many fish dies, or how many ships are destroyed via the 1/3 but WHERE THIS ALL HAPPENS. It's like God is giving us a secret CODE to understand this. I came upon this by chance, I thought this may be the case, without really believing it, so I checked it and was actually stunned by the facts.

The Pacific Ocean has 1/3 of all the water on the face of the whole earth AND the Americas, both North and South America combined have 1/3 of the total Land Mass on this earth, that stunned me. The Asteroid Apophis is IMHO thus going to hit in the Pacific Ocean just off the coast of California. Scientists say if it was to hit earth, that's where it would have to hit.

So, most people do not even grasp what God is telling us with the 1/3 will be destroyed, so they thus do not understand that Europe and the Mediterranean Sea Region will only be affected by the Smoke DARKING the skies for the most part via the first four Trumpets. On the 5th Trump (1st Woe) all of that changes, God starts ATTACKING MEN who have the Mark of the Beast...WATCH !!

First Woe
Rev. 9:4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.

Second Woe
In Revelation 9 we see the Angels are loosed onto the Euphrates River scene, thus that area will be where God kills 1/3 of all the men who serve Satan (Babylon/Persia/Europe etc.)

Rev. 9:19 For their power is in their mouth, and in their tails: for their tails were like unto serpents, and had heads, and with them they do hurt. 20 And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk: 21 Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts.

So, only when the three Woes start do Satan's men start getting hit with God's Wrath and dying. The 6th Vial allows Satan to REGATHER his men, when they are allowed to cross the Euphrates River by it "DRYING UP" that just means God prepares a way for them to go to war against Him, He stops bombarding them long enough for Satan to gather all the kings of the whole world to try and go kill off Israel and the Jews, which by this time they think will solve all of their problems, they hope that killing off all the Jews will mean God will just go away leave them alone I guess (LOL). That's not going to happen, see Vial #7, Jesus defeats them and God calls ALL THE KINGS of the Whole World that Jesus defeats Babylon the Great.

So, your whole concept is off kilter brother. The First Four Trumps do not hit in Europe/Israel, the First Two Woes start off killing The Anti-Christs henchmen, but God stops hitting them via the 6th Vial allowing the Anti-Christ to GATHER up the Kings of the Whole World, notice Vial #6 does nothing but ALLOWS them to be gathered to war, God STOPS HITTING them with plagues long enough to allow them to gather their troops at the Armageddon Venue !!

Davy said:
There's JESUS' COMING on that DAY OF THE LORD! WOW! and His Word says He then gathers "all nations against Jerusalem to battle"! That's the battle of ARMAGEDDON on the LAST DAY! (Rev.16). But your fake Pre-trib Rapture theory says the "day of the Lord" is the "great tribulation" time!!! You think the beast will be able to overpower Jesus on that "day of the Lord" when He comes? The theory from men you follow is so far away from the written Word of God that it is just nothing but... of the devil!

Yes, because the DAY OF THE LORD lasts at least 42 months, some think 1000 years PLUS 42 months, you want proof it has to be at least 42 months? You just pasted it via Zechariah 14:1-2 AND Zechariah 14:3-5 and didn't even realize it: LOOK CLOSELY.

Vs. 1-2 show the Anti-Christ conquering Jerusalem to RULE over them for 42 months, verses 3-5 and on in the chapter shows Jesus showing up 42 months later to DEFEAT them at Armageddon. This should prove to you the DOTL lasts for at least 42 months.

Davy said:
How will the beast and his servants still be working when consuming fire from God comes down and burns their evil works off this earth?? Oh, I forgot, you don't believe Apostle Peter there, you instead heed men's fake theory of a pre-trib rapture.

Because this happens AFTER the 1000 year reign when we leave this earth, only then will this whole earth and universe be destroyed by God. The Day of the Lord is the Kingdom Reign.

Davy · Feb 12, 2022

Ronald D Milam said:
Ahhhhhh, he wants me to lie or deny the facts God has taught me. So, when you get to heaven brother, and you understand everything I told you about the book of Revelation was true, then maybe it will dawn on you that truth overrides your so called "conceited" theories. I went 37 years preaching and teaching, called to Prophecy, and I never told anyone what the book of Revelation meant in full, because I have always recognized the Spirit of Truth when I hear it, but on Revelation I never heard God's truths, so I never spoke of, my understands as facts until about 6 or 7 years ago when God started revealing His truths unto me. Then one day while praying I asked God why the Church was so confused in these last days when God was supposed to pour out his spirit of truth out on the Church, and I thus asked why we have 100s of understandings of whom the Harlot is, who the 144,000 are and who Babylon is, and I git this "Ron, you guys already now it all" and that was all I needed to know, God was telling me that OUR IDEAS (Men's Truths of old) or Men's Traditions as Jesus called them unto the Pharisees were STOPPING us from hearing God's Truths, so I put off ALL THNGS and ALL ASSUMPTIONS passed down and with a clear mind I simply asked God to teach me His truths about Prophecy and Daniel/Revelation etc. as He ONCE did with the Gospels, and I put off things I learned from men which God says BLOCKS US from learning His truths, and BOOM, boom, boom, things started coming in really fast. All because there were now (at that time) no ROADBLOCKS.
....

Just as I thought, ALL MOUTH and NO SCRIPTURE!

This guy is a big JOKE! All he does is talk about how much Bible he knows! and it's OBVIOUS HE HASN'T EVEN STUDIED ALL THE BIBLE. Otherwise he would have KNOWN about those Old Testament AND New Testament Scriptures I quoted.

This guy Ronald D. Milam is a complete FAKE. BEWARE BRETHREN.

Ronald D Milam · Feb 13, 2022

Davy said:
Just as I thought, ALL MOUTH and NO SCRIPTURE!

This guy is a big JOKE! All he does is talk about how much Bible he knows! and it's OBVIOUS HE HASN'T EVEN STUDIED ALL THE BIBLE. Otherwise he would have KNOWN about those Old Testament AND New Testament Scriptures I quoted.

This guy Ronald D. Milam is a complete FAKE. BEWARE BRETHREN.

Dodge all of the destroyed understandings,

. I understand, but I don't get it. Man's pride, that what we see in guys who cant admit when they are proven wrong.

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