Seeing the Day Approaching.

Marilyn C · Jun 23, 2022

Seeing the Day approaching.

`Therefore, brethren, having boldness to enter the Holy Place by the blood of Jesus, by a new and living way which He consecrated for us, through the veil, that is, His flesh, and having a High Priest over the house of God,

- Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water.

- Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who promised is faithful.

- Let us consider one another in order to stir up love and good works, not forsaking the coming together, (in 2`a & 3`s) as the manner of some, but exhorting (encouraging and warning) one another, and so much the more as you SEE THE DAY APPROACHING.` (Heb. 10: 19 - 25)

I believe the Lord, the Head of His Body is building and maturing us. (Eph. 4: 13) And by His Holy Spirit He is revealing the times we are living in, as very close to His gathering His Body to go to its eternal home in glory.

Here are the main areas of the `Day` I see `approaching.`

1. Lawlessness abounding. (2 Thess. 2: 7)

2. The forming of the final Gentile Global Government. (Rev. 13)

3. The World Economic collapse. (Rev. 6: 5 & 6)

4. The Russian Federation on the move. (Joel 2 & Ez. 38)

5. The Islamic power, ready to arise. (Dan. 7: 7, 23)

So all the `let us` `s of Hebrew 10 give us good direction as to what we should be doing in these momentous times.

What are your thoughts?

farouk · Jun 23, 2022

Marilyn C said:
Seeing the Day approaching.

`Therefore, brethren, having boldness to enter the Holy Place by the blood of Jesus, by a new and living way which He consecrated for us, through the veil, that is, His flesh, and having a High Priest over the house of God,

- Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water.

- Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who promised is faithful.

- Let us consider one another in order to stir up love and good works, not forsaking the coming together, (in 2`a & 3`s) as the manner of some, but exhorting (encouraging and warning) one another, and so much the more as you SEE THE DAY APPROACHING.` (Heb. 10: 19 - 25)

I believe the Lord, the Head of His Body is building and maturing us. (Eph. 4: 13) And by His Holy Spirit He is revealing the times we are living in, as very close to His gathering His Body to go to its eternal home in glory.

Here are the main areas of the `Day` I see `approaching.`

1. Lawlessness abounding. (2 Thess. 2: 7)

2. The forming of the final Gentile Global Government. (Rev. 13)

3. The World Economic collapse. (Rev. 6: 5 & 6)

4. The Russian Federation on the move. (Joel 2 & Ez. 38)

5. The Islamic power, ready to arise. (Dan. 7: 7, 23)

So all the `let us` `s of Hebrew 10 give us good direction as to what we should be doing in these momentous times.

What are your thoughts?

A great exhortation from Hebrews 10 to keep encouraging one another as we see the day approaching............

farouk · Jun 23, 2022

PS: Keep up the good work of Bible verse posting, @Marilyn C !

Randy Kluth · Jun 24, 2022

Marilyn C said:
Seeing the Day approaching.

`Therefore, brethren, having boldness to enter the Holy Place by the blood of Jesus, by a new and living way which He consecrated for us, through the veil, that is, His flesh, and having a High Priest over the house of God,

- Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water.

- Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who promised is faithful.

- Let us consider one another in order to stir up love and good works, not forsaking the coming together, (in 2`a & 3`s) as the manner of some, but exhorting (encouraging and warning) one another, and so much the more as you SEE THE DAY APPROACHING.` (Heb. 10: 19 - 25)

I believe the Lord, the Head of His Body is building and maturing us. (Eph. 4: 13) And by His Holy Spirit He is revealing the times we are living in, as very close to His gathering His Body to go to its eternal home in glory.

Here are the main areas of the `Day` I see `approaching.`

1. Lawlessness abounding. (2 Thess. 2: 7)

2. The forming of the final Gentile Global Government. (Rev. 13)

3. The World Economic collapse. (Rev. 6: 5 & 6)

4. The Russian Federation on the move. (Joel 2 & Ez. 38)

5. The Islamic power, ready to arise. (Dan. 7: 7, 23)

So all the `let us` `s of Hebrew 10 give us good direction as to what we should be doing in these momentous times.

What are your thoughts?

I'm not sure the global economy will collapse. Famine only ever attacks a portion of the earth. But I agree that a new form of World Govt. is approaching. And Middle Eastern religion continues to be a problem. Russia is also a big problem.

I've said it a number of times, but I'll say it again. I think Europe will encompass a dominant govt. on earth when it coalesces into a single government, possibly including Russia and the US. Then Antichrist will take charge, defeating 3 European-style countries. I think Antichrist will position himself in power over the Middle East, and I think that after 3.5 years China and perhaps India will challenge him in a world war, a nuclear war.

Marilyn C · Jun 24, 2022

Randy Kluth said:
I'm not sure the global economy will collapse. Famine only ever attacks a portion of the earth. But I agree that a new form of World Govt. is approaching. And Middle Eastern religion continues to be a problem. Russia is also a big problem.

I've said it a number of times, but I'll say it again. I think Europe will encompass a dominant govt. on earth when it coalesces into a single government, possibly including Russia and the US. Then Antichrist will take charge, defeating 3 European-style countries. I think Antichrist will position himself in power over the Middle East, and I think that after 3.5 years China and perhaps India will challenge him in a world war, a nuclear war.

Hi RK,

Good that we agree on so much. However I don`t see Europe as having the dominant government. Where do you get that idea?

n2thelight · Jun 24, 2022

Marilyn C said:
Seeing the Day approaching.

`Therefore, brethren, having boldness to enter the Holy Place by the blood of Jesus, by a new and living way which He consecrated for us, through the veil, that is, His flesh, and having a High Priest over the house of God,

- Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water.

- Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who promised is faithful.

- Let us consider one another in order to stir up love and good works, not forsaking the coming together, (in 2`a & 3`s) as the manner of some, but exhorting (encouraging and warning) one another, and so much the more as you SEE THE DAY APPROACHING.` (Heb. 10: 19 - 25)

I believe the Lord, the Head of His Body is building and maturing us. (Eph. 4: 13) And by His Holy Spirit He is revealing the times we are living in, as very close to His gathering His Body to go to its eternal home in glory.

Here are the main areas of the `Day` I see `approaching.`

1. Lawlessness abounding. (2 Thess. 2: 7)

2. The forming of the final Gentile Global Government. (Rev. 13)

3. The World Economic collapse. (Rev. 6: 5 & 6)

4. The Russian Federation on the move. (Joel 2 & Ez. 38)

5. The Islamic power, ready to arise. (Dan. 7: 7, 23)

So all the `let us` `s of Hebrew 10 give us good direction as to what we should be doing in these momentous times.

What are your thoughts?

I see deception

1 is here
2 is happening now
3 Is what makes 2 happen

4 I can see
5 I see with 4

We will have a one world government (first beast) that will fall apart(deadly wound)

satan pretending to be Christ heals that wound at which point it will turn into a one world religious system as the whole world will be deceived into thinking satan is actually Christ.

That's the tribulation

Randy Kluth · Jun 24, 2022

Marilyn C said:
Hi RK,

Good that we agree on so much. However I don`t see Europe as having the dominant government. Where do you get that idea?

I'm not a Dispensationalist--used to be, but I originally heard the idea from Hal Lindsey's "Late Great Planet Earth." That was a very long time ago!

Then I read Gordon Lindsay's pamphlets on biblical prophecy, and saw how he related the 4th Kingdom of Dan 2 and 7 to the 2 divisions of the old Roman Empire, East and West. It is just a matter of seeing how, as Lindsay related, how the 2 halves of the old Roman Empire developed into the Byzantine and Holy Roman empires.

If we look at history, we find that the imperial nature of these kingdoms, East and West, never went away. And they have remained dominant. Rome itself was conquered, as a city, but never did the political power of European peoples complete succumb to outside pressures. That is, they may have been conquered, like the Byzantine Empire in 1453, but the Roman Imperial Tradition simply passed on to the Russian Empire.

It's a matter of comparing Dan 2 and 7 with World History, for me. I've held this view since the 1970s--a long time. And in all of my studies, biblical and historical, I've only confirmed this perspective, although I would confess it is speculative. I remain open to the Lord on all matters.

Thanks for asking!

Marilyn C · Jun 24, 2022

n2thelight said:
I see deception

1 is here
2 is happening now
3 Is what makes 2 happen

4 I can see
5 I see with 4

We will have a one world government (first beast) that will fall apart(deadly wound)

satan pretending to be Christ heals that wound at which point it will turn into a one world religious system as the whole world will be deceived into thinking satan is actually Christ.

That's the tribulation

Hi n2thelight,

Glad we can agree on a lot. Now the Global Leader is the one who looks like he is killed.

`I saw one of its heads, (leaders) AS IF it had been mortally wounded....` (Rev. 13: 3)

Marilyn C · Jun 24, 2022

Randy Kluth said:
I'm not a Dispensationalist--used to be, but I originally heard the idea from Hal Lindsey's "Late Great Planet Earth." That was a very long time ago!

Then I read Gordon Lindsay's pamphlets on biblical prophecy, and saw how he related the 4th Kingdom of Dan 2 and 7 to the 2 divisions of the old Roman Empire, East and West. It is just a matter of seeing how, as Lindsay related, how the 2 halves of the old Roman Empire developed into the Byzantine and Holy Roman empires.

If we look at history, we find that the imperial nature of these kingdoms, East and West, never went away. And they have remained dominant. Rome itself was conquered, as a city, but never did the political power of European peoples complete succumb to outside pressures. That is, they may have been conquered, like the Byzantine Empire in 1453, but the Roman Imperial Tradition simply passed on to the Russian Empire.

It's a matter of comparing Dan 2 and 7 with World History, for me. I've held this view since the 1970s--a long time. And in all of my studies, biblical and historical, I've only confirmed this perspective, although I would confess it is speculative. I remain open to the Lord on all matters.

Thanks for asking!

Hi RK,

Now we know from God`s word and history that these kingdoms came and then went, for God judged them - Babylon, Medes and Persians, Greece and Rome. There governments have all gone. They are no more. God finished them.

So looking at Dan. 7 we see that those beastly kingdom/Federations are CONTEMPORARY. Here are the reasons -

Reasons for 4 Federations being contemporary.

1. They arise one at a time and continue contemporaneously, (at the same time) for the last beastly power treads them all down. (Dan. 7: 7)

2. The first three powers are able to continue on after the last one if judged. (Dan. 7: 12)

3. The great powers are in the time of the Lord setting up His rulership under Israel. (Dan. 7: 27)

Marilyn.

amigo de christo · Jun 24, 2022

The DAY is approaching all right . The signs of the times are abounding big time .
Let all cling to the LORD , stay planted in prayers and in those bibles .
Being hearers and doers of all things OUR LORD did command . Learn the JESUS of the bible well .
Learn all sound biblical doctrine well . Be exhorting and SO MUCH the more as we SEE THE DAY APPROACHING .

Randy Kluth · Jun 25, 2022

Marilyn C said:
Hi RK,

Now we know from God`s word and history that these kingdoms came and then went, for God judged them - Babylon, Medes and Persians, Greece and Rome. There governments have all gone. They are no more. God finished them.

So looking at Dan. 7 we see that those beastly kingdom/Federations are CONTEMPORARY. Here are the reasons -

Reasons for 4 Federations being contemporary.

1. They arise one at a time and continue contemporaneously, (at the same time) for the last beastly power treads them all down. (Dan. 7: 7)

2. The first three powers are able to continue on after the last one if judged. (Dan. 7: 12)

3. The great powers are in the time of the Lord setting up His rulership under Israel. (Dan. 7: 27)

Marilyn.

I can't see them being contemporary for the simple reason that Daniel indicated they existed in his time.

Dan 2.36 “This was the dream, and now we will interpret it to the king. 37 Your Majesty, you are the king of kings. The God of heaven has given you dominion and power and might and glory; 38 in your hands he has placed all mankind and the beasts of the field and the birds in the sky. Wherever they live, he has made you ruler over them all. You are that head of gold."

This I equate with the 1st Kingdom mentioned in Dan 7. And then in Dan 8, we read that they followed one after another.

Dan 8.19 He said: “I am going to tell you what will happen later in the time of wrath, because the vision concerns the appointed time of the end. 20 The two-horned ram that you saw represents the kings of Media and Persia. 21 The shaggy goat is the king of Greece, and the large horn between its eyes is the first king. 22 The four horns that replaced the one that was broken off represent four kingdoms that will emerge from his nation but will not have the same power."

Marilyn C · Jun 25, 2022

Randy Kluth said:
I can't see them being contemporary for the simple reason that Daniel indicated they existed in his time.

Dan 2.36 “This was the dream, and now we will interpret it to the king. 37 Your Majesty, you are the king of kings. The God of heaven has given you dominion and power and might and glory; 38 in your hands he has placed all mankind and the beasts of the field and the birds in the sky. Wherever they live, he has made you ruler over them all. You are that head of gold."

This I equate with the 1st Kingdom mentioned in Dan 7. And then in Dan 8, we read that they followed one after another.

Dan 8.19 He said: “I am going to tell you what will happen later in the time of wrath, because the vision concerns the appointed time of the end. 20 The two-horned ram that you saw represents the kings of Media and Persia. 21 The shaggy goat is the king of Greece, and the large horn between its eyes is the first king. 22 The four horns that replaced the one that was broken off represent four kingdoms that will emerge from his nation but will not have the same power."

Hi RK,

Yes we both agree that Babylon was the first world Ruler (Dan. 2: 36) and that the Medes and Persians came next. (Dan. 5: 31) and then Greece, (Dan. 8: 19).

However God judged them and those Rulers are no more. So they cannot be the great powers of Dan. 7: 4 - 6,

1. as they were trodden down by the terrifying beastly 4th power. (ie, Rome didn`t tread down Babylon, M & P) (Dan. 7: 7)
2. as they were given an extension of life AFTER the terrifying beastly power was dealt with by God. (Babylon & M & P & Greece were not given an extension of dominion for God dealt with them.)(Dan. 7: 12)
3. those great powers were all in the time of the Lord setting up His rulership through Israel. (Dan. 7: 27)

Randy Kluth · Jun 25, 2022

Marilyn C said:
Hi RK,

Yes we both agree that Babylon was the first world Ruler (Dan. 2: 36) and that the Medes and Persians came next. (Dan. 5: 31) and then Greece, (Dan. 8: 19).

However God judged them and those Rulers are no more. So they cannot be the great powers of Dan. 7: 4 - 6,

1. as they were trodden down by the terrifying beastly 4th power. (ie, Rome didn`t tread down Babylon, M & P) (Dan. 7: 7)
2. as they were given an extension of life AFTER the terrifying beastly power was dealt with by God. (Babylon & M & P & Greece were not given an extension of dominion for God dealt with them.)(Dan. 7: 12)
3. those great powers were all in the time of the Lord setting up His rulership through Israel. (Dan. 7: 27)

Obviously, I correlate the 4 Kingdoms of Dan 2 with the 4 Kingdoms of Dan 7. If the 1st Kingdom is Babylon in Dan 2, followed by Persia, Greece, and Rome, then the 1st Kingdom in Dan 7 is also Babylon, followed by Persia and Greece in Dan 8. They are the same 4 kingdoms.

All of your points can be argued, but this is the reason I reject a contemporary set of 4 Kingdoms. I do, however, believe the 4th Kingdom, Rome, is still dominant on earth with its imperial tradition. And ultimately European Civilization will be the seat of Antichrist. Since Eastern Europe included Russia as an heir of the Eastern Roman Empire, I do think that Russia will eventually join the European Community.

Marilyn C · Jun 25, 2022

Randy Kluth said:
Obviously, I correlate the 4 Kingdoms of Dan 2 with the 4 Kingdoms of Dan 7. If the 1st Kingdom is Babylon in Dan 2, followed by Persia, Greece, and Rome, then the 1st Kingdom in Dan 7 is also Babylon, followed by Persia and Greece in Dan 8. They are the same 4 kingdoms.

All of your points can be argued, but this is the reason I reject a contemporary set of 4 Kingdoms. I do, however, believe the 4th Kingdom, Rome, is still dominant on earth with its imperial tradition. And ultimately European Civilization will be the seat of Antichrist. Since Eastern Europe included Russia as an heir of the Eastern Roman Empire, I do think that Russia will eventually join the European Community.

Hi RK,

You really haven`t addressed my points. If you believe in the historic 4 beasts then you should be able to defend your position. otherwise it is just conjecture.

Randy Kluth · Jun 25, 2022

Marilyn C said:
Hi RK,

You really haven`t addressed my points. If you believe in the historic 4 beasts then you should be able to defend your position. otherwise it is just conjecture.

I addressed them by saying they were arguable either way. The point I hang my hat on is on the correspondence between Dan 2 and Dan 7-8, indicating the 4 kingdoms were 4 *ancient* kingdoms, beginning from the time of Daniel, and ending at the Return of Christ.

But if you wish, I can still address the other points you made, though it's really a matter of my presupposition that the 4 kingdoms are Babylon, Persia, Greece, and Roman Civilization. So here they are...

You said:
Yes we both agree that Babylon was the first world Ruler (Dan. 2: 36) and that the Medes and Persians came next. (Dan. 5: 31) and then Greece, (Dan. 8: 19).

However God judged them and those Rulers are no more. So they cannot be the great powers of Dan. 7: 4 - 6,

1. as they were trodden down by the terrifying beastly 4th power. (ie, Rome didn`t tread down Babylon, M & P) (Dan. 7: 7)
2. as they were given an extension of life AFTER the terrifying beastly power was dealt with by God. (Babylon & M & P & Greece were not given an extension of dominion for God dealt with them.)(Dan. 7: 12)
3. those great powers were all in the time of the Lord setting up His rulership through Israel. (Dan. 7: 27)

Dan 7.4-6 can, in my view, be the same powers as indicated in Dan 2.36, 5.31, and 8.19 because they describe the same thing, though it was Nebuchadnezzar's Dream in Dan 2 and Daniel's Dream in Dan 7. I see no appreciable difference between how these powers were described in each case.

To say God judged them in one set of verses and then declare that they cannot be the same powers in another set of verses because "they are no more" assumes that they are visions being chronologically fulfilled. And I already told you it is my assumption that they are not--they are rather to be fulfilled in the exact same way. If they are judged to be "no more" in one set of verses, then they are judged to be "no more" in the other set of verses. No difference, and no contradiction.

Dan 7.7 “After that, in my vision at night I looked, and there before me was a fourth beast—terrifying and frightening and very powerful. It had large iron teeth; it crushed and devoured its victims and trampled underfoot whatever was left. It was different from all the former beasts, and it had ten horns."

1. This verse doesn't say the 4th Beast trods down the 3 previous beasts. It says it trods down the entire territory formerly held by any of the former beasts, in particular "whatever is left."

2. The passage indicates the 3 previous beasts had their control of this particular region "stripped" from them, so that the 4th beast now controlled it. This did not mean the 3 previous beasts were destroyed--they retained their home countries, which is true. Even today, Iran, Greece, and Iraq still exist.

Dan 7.27 Then the sovereignty, power and greatness of all the kingdoms under heaven will be handed over to the holy people of the Most High. His kingdom will be an everlasting kingdom, and all rulers will worship and obey him.

3. The above verse does not say anything about the 4 great powers except that the 4th beast had come to be ruled by Antichrist, whose kingdom would be completely destroyed. Control over the territory of Israel would be completely ceded by all of these powers to the Son of Man.

So I suppose you could say I in one sense agree with you that these powers are contemporary. It's just that I see them as ancient powers that ultimately came to be usurped by the 4th power in the time of Rome. All 4 powers remain with us, in my view, today. It is only the 4th power that controls Israel until the end of the age, the 4th power being European Authority today.

Marilyn C · Jun 25, 2022

Randy Kluth said:
I addressed them by saying they were arguable either way. The point I hang my hat on is on the correspondence between Dan 2 and Dan 7-8, indicating the 4 kingdoms were 4 *ancient* kingdoms, beginning from the time of Daniel, and ending at the Return of Christ.

But if you wish, I can still address the other points you made, though it's really a matter of my presupposition that the 4 kingdoms are Babylon, Persia, Greece, and Roman Civilization. So here they are...

You said:
Yes we both agree that Babylon was the first world Ruler (Dan. 2: 36) and that the Medes and Persians came next. (Dan. 5: 31) and then Greece, (Dan. 8: 19).

However God judged them and those Rulers are no more. So they cannot be the great powers of Dan. 7: 4 - 6,

1. as they were trodden down by the terrifying beastly 4th power. (ie, Rome didn`t tread down Babylon, M & P) (Dan. 7: 7)
2. as they were given an extension of life AFTER the terrifying beastly power was dealt with by God. (Babylon & M & P & Greece were not given an extension of dominion for God dealt with them.)(Dan. 7: 12)
3. those great powers were all in the time of the Lord setting up His rulership through Israel. (Dan. 7: 27)

Dan 7.4-6 can, in my view, be the same powers as indicated in Dan 2.36, 5.31, and 8.19 because they describe the same thing, though it was Nebuchadnezzar's Dream in Dan 2 and Daniel's Dream in Dan 7. I see no appreciable difference between how these powers were described in each case.

To say God judged them in one set of verses and then declare that they cannot be the same powers in another set of verses because "they are no more" assumes that they are visions being chronologically fulfilled. And I already told you it is my assumption that they are not--they are rather to be fulfilled in the exact same way. If they are judged to be "no more" in one set of verses, then they are judged to be "no more" in the other set of verses. No difference, and no contradiction.

Dan 7.7 “After that, in my vision at night I looked, and there before me was a fourth beast—terrifying and frightening and very powerful. It had large iron teeth; it crushed and devoured its victims and trampled underfoot whatever was left. It was different from all the former beasts, and it had ten horns."

1. This verse doesn't say the 4th Beast trods down the 3 previous beasts. It says it trods down the entire territory formerly held by any of the former beasts, in particular "whatever is left."

2. The passage indicates the 3 previous beasts had their control of this particular region "stripped" from them, so that the 4th beast now controlled it. This did not mean the 3 previous beasts were destroyed--they retained their home countries, which is true. Even today, Iran, Greece, and Iraq still exist.

Dan 7.27 Then the sovereignty, power and greatness of all the kingdoms under heaven will be handed over to the holy people of the Most High. His kingdom will be an everlasting kingdom, and all rulers will worship and obey him.

3. The above verse does not say anything about the 4 great powers except that the 4th beast had come to be ruled by Antichrist, whose kingdom would be completely destroyed. Control over the territory of Israel would be completely ceded by all of these powers to the Son of Man.

So I suppose you could say I in one sense agree with you that these powers are contemporary. It's just that I see them as ancient powers that ultimately came to be usurped by the 4th power in the time of Rome. All 4 powers remain with us, in my view, today. It is only the 4th power that controls Israel until the end of the age, the 4th power being European Authority today.

Hi RK,

Thank you for a fuller explanation. That makes for a better discussion. Now I see how my statement came across to you that way. Sorry. I meant that the 4 historic Rulers having been judged cannot be the 4 great beasts - BECAUSE of the following reasons that I posted. It did sound like you said though.

1. Where does it say - `entire territory formerly held by any of the former beasts?`

2. When God dealt with the world rulers of Dan. 2 He judged the ruling government and did away with it. (Dan. 5: 31 - `Darius the Mede received the kingdom,` (of Babylon). Of course the people and land was still there, but that is NOT what God is dealing with. He is dealing with governments.

And the governments of Babylon, Medes & Persians & Greece & Rome have ALL been judged and are NO more. Of course people still live in those areas of land. But that is NOT what God has judged.

So saying Iraq, Iran & Greece today is just referring to land and people there. It is NOT the governments of the World Rulers of the past. They have been judged.

The European Community are NOT the Roman Government of history. God judged that government. Europe is NOT the great power that is different from all the other beastly Federations. It is plainly Islam which is so, so different, plus terrifying, treading down, (ask the Nigerians, Afghanistans, and many others who are being brutally killed by them.)

Randy Kluth · Jun 25, 2022

Marilyn C said:
Hi RK,

Thank you for a fuller explanation. That makes for a better discussion. Now I see how my statement came across to you that way. Sorry. I meant that the 4 historic Rulers having been judged cannot be the 4 great beasts - BECAUSE of the following reasons that I posted. It did sound like you said though.

1. Where does it say - `entire territory formerly held by any of the former beasts?`

I meant that Rome would control, entirely, a territory formerly controlled by the previous 3 beasts--not that Rome would control the entire territory of the 3 previous beasts. That is an important distinction, and I wish to make this clear. The 4 beasts have controlled different territories. But the one territory that they held in common was the territory that gave complete control over Israel. And Rome completely trod down that territory. Rome did not completely trod down the home countries of the 3 previous beasts. They were merely stripped of their control over this territory in connection with Israel.

Marilyn C said:
2. When God dealt with the world rulers of Dan. 2 He judged the ruling government and did away with it. (Dan. 5: 31 - `Darius the Mede received the kingdom,` (of Babylon). Of course the people and land was still there, but that is NOT what God is dealing with. He is dealing with governments.

What I believe we're talking about is supremacy, and not annihilation of previous political powers. Persia defeated Babylon's claim to supremacy over territory connected to their control over Israel. It involved defeat of Babylon itself.

Greece defeated Persia, but Persia remained. Rome usurped Greek control, but Greece remained. The supremacy came to reside in Rome. But the 3 previous powers remained in control of their home territories.

Marilyn C said:
And the governments of Babylon, Medes & Persians & Greece & Rome have ALL been judged and are NO more. Of course people still live in those areas of land. But that is NOT what God has judged.

So saying Iraq, Iran & Greece today is just referring to land and people there. It is NOT the governments of the World Rulers of the past. They have been judged.

They did retain political power long after Rome assumed position of supreme power in the region around Israel. Rome was dominant among all 3 previous powers. Even Rome was later judged and defeated. But its political power continued, and will continue until the end of the age, as I see it.

Marilyn C said:
The European Community are NOT the Roman Government of history. God judged that government. Europe is NOT the great power that is different from all the other beastly Federations. It is plainly Islam which is so, so different, plus terrifying, treading down, (ask the Nigerians, Afghanistans, and many others who are being brutally killed by them.)

Rome did evolve into the European community, and has in every way shown dominance over Islam. Sorry, but I have to disagree.

Marilyn C · Jun 26, 2022

Randy Kluth said:
I meant that Rome would control, entirely, a territory formerly controlled by the previous 3 beasts--not that Rome would control the entire territory of the 3 previous beasts. That is an important distinction, and I wish to make this clear. The 4 beasts have controlled different territories. But the one territory that they held in common was the territory that gave complete control over Israel. And Rome completely trod down that territory. Rome did not completely trod down the home countries of the 3 previous beasts. They were merely stripped of their control over this territory in connection with Israel.

What I believe we're talking about is supremacy, and not annihilation of previous political powers. Persia defeated Babylon's claim to supremacy over territory connected to their control over Israel. It involved defeat of Babylon itself.

Greece defeated Persia, but Persia remained. Rome usurped Greek control, but Greece remained. The supremacy came to reside in Rome. But the 3 previous powers remained in control of their home territories.

They did retain political power long after Rome assumed position of supreme power in the region around Israel. Rome was dominant among all 3 previous powers. Even Rome was later judged and defeated. But its political power continued, and will continue until the end of the age, as I see it.

Rome did evolve into the European community, and has in every way shown dominance over Islam. Sorry, but I have to disagree.

So we agree that the 4 world rulers have been judged by God and those governments are no more.

Now we can discuss the final Gentile Global Government. You say it will be the European Community. Can you give scriptural proof of that?

Randy Kluth · Jun 26, 2022

Marilyn C said:
So we agree that the 4 world rulers have been judged by God and those governments are no more.

Why would you say that? My suggestion was that these ancient kingdoms were, in fact, judged, but continue in modern forms. Babylon, Persia, Greece, and Rome continue today as Iraq, Iran, Greece, and Italy. And the Kingdom of Rome continues its dominant position as a current Kingdom by evolving into European Civilization.

Marilyn C said:
Now we can discuss the final Gentile Global Government. You say it will be the European Community. Can you give scriptural proof of that?

I believe Rome, being based in Europe, continued, historically, in a variety of forms. After Rome fell in 476 AD, Roman culture continued in Europe until the Holy Roman Empire evolved in the West. And after Constantinople fell in 1453 AD, Roman culture continue in the East via the Russian Empire.

All this is based on Dan 2 and Dan 7, the 4th Kingdom in the dreams of Nebuchadnezzar and Daniel. In Dan 2, the iron legs represent the 4th Kingdom, the 2 legs representing the 2 parts of the Roman Empire, East and West.

The supremacy of Rome is viewed, logically, in Daniel, particularly in ch. 9 and in ch. 11. In ch. 9, it is assumed to be Rome's "ruler" whose people, an army, devastate Jerusalem and the temple.

And in ch. 11, Rome, we must assume, follows the rise and fall of Antiochus 4 of Syria. That's when the great tribulation of the Jewish People begins, following the cutting off of Messiah and the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD. Jesus spoke of this in his Olivet Discourse.

GTW27 · Jun 26, 2022

He shall speak words against The Most High, and shall wear out the saints of The most high, and shall think to change the times and the law; and they shall be given into his hand for a time, two times, and half a time.

Sharia law, changes the time and law to a time before Grace through faith. The building of a temple is to go back before the cross. For we are the temple and Jesus is The Lamb of God. Let us stand upon The Rock, our sure foundation,(Jesus) as the time approaches.

Seeing the Day Approaching.

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