Three Days and Three Nights

zeke25 said:

Whenever the word Passover is used in Scripture it must be discerned from the context which part of Passover is being addressed or if both parts are being addressed.

There is the Passover sacrifice and the Passover Feast.

The sacrifice occurs on Friday the 14th about mid-evening (mid-afternoon in our modern times). Leviticus 23:5 TIB, "In the first month, on the fourteenth of the month, between the evenings, is the Passover to [Yahowah].”

The feast occurs after sunset on Friday Abib 14 and might last all night, but it certainly doesn’t have to. Saturday Abib 15 begins at sunrise as soon as Abib 14 ends at this same sunrise.

Passover, both sacrifice and feast occur on the same day, Abib 14. Exodus 12:14 KJV, "And this day shall be unto you for a memorial; and ye shall keep it a feast to [Yahowah] throughout your generations; ye shall keep it a feast by an ordinance for ever.”

If you can find a Scripture that teaches a two day Passover please tell me. I need to know.

Pilgrimer, shturt678, Nomad, etc & any others that are reading but not participating,

When discussing the events of crucifixion week here is the problem that Christendom is having. They are not using the right tools. If can be likened to a auto mechanic working on a metric car with only wrenches made in inches. It just doesn't fit. And the mechanic is from the old school and he never heard of metrics, and he just can't seem to figure out what's wrong.

That's what the teachings I've posted thus far are all about. It's a process. Each teaching is designed to give the mechanic (Spirit led born-again Christian) one more tool that fits. Twilight versus Between the Evenings, A Day Begins At Sunrise, and Seven Perfect Weeks.

The old tools that don't work in crucifixion week are Rabbinic Judaism, the current Rabbinic calendar, Gregory's calendar (they didn't exist at that time in history), and some other things.

I listened to a preacher recently online spend about 10 minutes explaining to his congregation about how a day begins at sunset. But of course he was totally wrong because it begins at sunrise. But that wasn't the biggest problem he had. No sooner did he get them primed with a sunset day start, then he tosses the whole teaching into the garbage can with his next statement. He said, so now let's count the days between the crucifixion and the resurrection. Friday was day one, Friday night was night one, Saturday was day two and Saturday night was night two, Sunday was day three... . Huh???
Did you catch it? All the pastors do it. He taught them the current Rabbinic calendar and then immediately threw it into the garbage can and started counting days on the Gregorian calendar. And they all just sit there, with that deer in the headlight look, and nod their heads. Where are the frustrated ones? Where are the ones who are actually listening? Where are the ones who are actually thinking? Is anyone thinking when they listen to this confusion? Don't you want to stand up and holler "Whoa Nellie". Run that by me one more time, somethin' ain't right with this picture.

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Thank you for your response and really caring!

Lev.23:5-8 regard the leading directions for the Passover and feast of Mazzoth are repeated from Exod.12 of course.

macharath hashavath (spelling as been awhile?) signifies the next day after the first day of the feast of Mazzoth, ie, the 16th Abib (Nisan), not the day of the Sabbath which fell in the seven days' feast of Mazzoth for example.

As a day of rest the first day of the feast of Mazzoth is called "Sabbath," irrespectively of the day of the week upon which it fell; and "the morrow after the Sabbath" is eqivalent to "the morrow after the Passover" mentioned in Josh. v.11, where "Passover" signifies the day at the beginning of which the paschal meal was held, ie, first day of unleavened bread, which commenced on the evening of the 14th, iow, the 15th Abib.

Now you can be specific as to where I'm corrupting Lev.?

Old Jack's opinion

rstrats said:

shturt678,

re: "We can agree to disagree,"


You say that you disagree with my comment that there is nothing in the Tobit and Esther passages that precludes at least a portion of each one of the 3 daytimes and at least a portion of each one of the 3 nighttimes. Exactly why do you think that there is?

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Have to run, will be back!

shturt678 said:

Thank you again!

Again, how can Jesus say that His stay in the grave would be "for three days and three nights" when he actually spent only "2" nights in the grave? The difficulty disappears when in Tobit 3:12 we read, "Ate not nor drank for three days and three nights," and yet in the very next verse, "Then on the third day," the fast being ended. Similarly Esther 4:16 compared with 5:1.

The ol' idiomatic Jewish usuage.

Old Jack

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Thank you for caring, ie, clearing the air!

The "fast" should have ended on the 4th day if a full 3 X 3 was valid. Again similarly Eshter 4:16 compared with 5:1.

Old Jack that needs to get back to fasting and praying more often.

Don’t feel bad Old Jack you’re suffering from the same misunderstanding of the Scriptures that the Roman Catholics and the Church of England suffer from (and who knows how many others - I can’t keep track of all of them). So you have lots of company.

You still haven’t given me a Scripture that shows that the single day of Passover is more than one day. But you did give me Leviticus 23:5-8.

Leviticus 23:5 TIB, "In the first month, on the fourteenth of the month, between the evenings, is the Passover to [Yahowah].” This is true for the Passover sacrifice. Then after sunset, it is still the 14th and the Passover Feast can begin. Come sunrise, the 14th is over and the 15th begins. Also, the Passover is finished. Take a look at the first Passover in Exodus 12, when it was over, it was over. Sunrise came and the Hebrews came out of their homes. They had no clue at this point that another Hebrew Feast was going to be established. Passover was over, their lives had been spared, and they were gettin’ outa Dodge. Most were celebrating and that which they celebrated the most is that they were still alive. Exodus 12:1-14,21-30 tells the complete story. However verse 14 sums it up.

Exodus 12:15-20 is a parenthetical, it is not part of the instructions for the first Passover. However, verse 18 is very revealing to our conversation.


13. Exodus 12:18 KJV, "In the first month, on the fourteenth day of the month at even, ye shall eat unleavened bread, until the one and twentieth day of the month at even." Passover is separate from but connected, by its close proximity on the calendar, to the Feast of Unleavened Bread. The Feast of Unleavened Bread begins at sunrise on Abib 15 and continues through Abib 21, seven days. During this time no leavened bread is to be eaten by the Hebrews. Verse eighteen instructs that the eating of unleavened bread begins "on the fourteenth day of the month at even". This even is the second even, or sundown. "ntil the one and twentieth day of the month at even": this even is also the second even, or sundown on the twenty-first day of the month. In other words, the requirement to eat unleavened bread on the 21st ends at sunset (even), not the following morning at sunrise when the 21st is officially over.

14. Exodus 12:19-20 KJV, "19 Seven days shall there be no leaven found in your houses: for whosoever eateth that which is leavened, even that soul shall be cut off from the congregation of Israel, whether he be a stranger, or born in the land. 20 Ye shall eat nothing leavened; in all your habitations shall ye eat unleavened bread." If the Hebrews were to eat unleavened bread for the Passover Feast and for the seven days of the Feast of Unleavened Bread, that adds up to eight days total. So why do the instructions say that for "seven days shall there be no leaven found in your houses" and no soul shall eat leavened bread during that time? Why does it not say for eight days? Verse eighteen provides the additional instructions that explain this eight days and seven days mix. Unleavened bread is required to be eaten beginning at sundown (or even) on Passover (it is still Abib 14 after sundown), the first of the eight days, and the requirement ceases at sundown (or even) on the eighth day (Abib 21). If one counts the days starting at sundown on Passover and continues until the eighth day at sundown, you will have covered a seven day period within the eight day period. Huh? Count using your fingers, it works.

Leviticus 23:6 KJV, "And on the fifteenth day of the same month is the feast of unleavened bread unto [Yahowah]: seven days ye must eat unleavened bread.” This verse merely repeats those instructions given in Exodus 12:18-20. It is speaking to the Feast of Unleavened Bread only, Passover is over.

Leviticus 23:7-8 KJV "7 In the first day ye shall have an holy convocation: ye shall do no servile work therein. 8 But ye shall offer an offering made by fire unto [Yahowah] seven days: in the seventh day is an holy convocation: ye shall do no servile work therein.” This is the 1st and 7th days of the seven days of the Feast of Unleavened Bread. Passover was finished before the Feast of Unleavened Bread begins. The requirement to refrain from servile work only applies to the seven days of the Feast of Unleavened Bread, it is not talking about the single day of Passover.

To summerize: Leviticus 23:5 is talking about the single day of Passover only. Leviticus 23:6-8 is only talking about the seven days of the Feast of Unleavened Bread.

The first day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread always falls on Abib 15 and it is always on Saturday/Sabbath. It is both an annual Sabbath and a weekly Sabbath. The day after that is always and must be a Sunday, Abib 16, because this day is the beginning of the count of seven perfect weeks to Shavuot and that must begin on Sunday Abib 16. One cannot have a perfect week except that it begins on a Sunday and ends on a Saturday.

You also mentioned Joshua v.11. Let’s look at that too.

Joshua 5:10-11 KJV, “10 And the children of Israel encamped in Gilgal, and kept the passover on the fourteenth day of the month at even in the plains of Jericho. 11 And they did eat of the old corn of the land on the morrow after the passover, unleavened cakes, and parched corn in the selfsame day.”

Passover is on Friday the 14th. The day after is Abib 15, a Saturday/Sabbath, and it is also the first day of the seven days of the Feast of Unleavened Bread. The beginning of the day of Passover the 14th was sunrise. The eating of the lamb began after sunset that same day, just as it did in Exodus and Leviticus.

Verse 11 does not mean “the morrow after the Sabbath” as you contend. It says “the morrow after the Passover”. They are not equivalent at all as you contend. The words you use have so twisted the meaning of the text that they must be addressed individually. Let’s look at them.

You said, “As a day of rest the first day of the feast of Mazzoth is called "Sabbath," irrespectively of the day of the week upon which it fell; and "the morrow after the Sabbath" is eqivalent to "the morrow after the Passover" mentioned in Josh. v.11, where "Passover" signifies the day at the beginning of which the paschal meal was held, ie, first day of unleavened bread, which commenced on the evening of the 14th, iow, the 15th Abib.”

1) “rrespectively of the day of the week upon which it fell”. It never falls on any day but Saturday Abib 15.

2) “[T]he morrow after the Sabbath is equivalent to the morrow after the Passover”. As I explained in detail above, no it is not equivalent at all.

3) “n Josh. v.11, where Passover signifies the day at the beginning of which the paschal meal was held”. No, not at all. The Passover Feast was eaten after half the day was over, not at the beginning. It was eaten after sundown in the night portion of a 24 hour day.

4) “e, first day of unleavened bread”. The first day of Unleavened Bread does not begin until Saturday morning Abib 15. Yes, there is a requirement to eat unleavened bread at the Passover Feast the night before, but this must not confuse the issue that Passover and the Feast of Unleavened Bread are two separate, distinct, and different unleavened feasts altogether.

5) “[W]hich commenced on the evening of the 14th, now, the 15th Abib”. Not even close to being that which the Scriptures teach. The 15th does not begin after sundown. The 15th begins the following sunrise. This is why it is so important that those who study the Bible need to know that A Day Begins At Sunrise. Please refer to my thread in this forum with this teaching. This is why the enemy of your soul has lied and deceived you and millions of others into believing that a day does not begin at sunrise. We were warned in Daniel 7:25 that he would change the times. It has already occurred. Get out of that box. Don’t stay in the dark any more. I am holding a helping hand to you, grab ahold and let’s pull you out together.

Nomad said:

Okay. It happens. No big deal.


So basically you're telling me that you have this lofty claim and proof is forthcoming. I look forward to it.

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Nomad,

I assume, with my exchange with Pilgrimer and with shturt678, that they have not read my posts on "A Day Begins At Sunrise". I assume you have read my post on twilight versus "Between the Evenings". But here is my point. If you have not read both of these teachings and the one called "Seven Perfect Weeks" and here is the kicker - you must come into agreement with them because it is that which the Scriptures teach. If you do not agree with them, then my two part teaching on the "Calendar of Scripture" will be of no value to you. All of these teachings are part of a series of teachings on the same subject, and that subject is the last teaching in the series called "Crucifixion Week and the Harmony of the Gospels". "Crucifixion Week" is not the 4th one in the series. It is only helpful when these teachings are taken in approximately the right order. And if someone along the way takes exception to one of the teachings, then the chain has been broken and the remainder of the teachings are of no value to you since they build one upon another.

So here is my question. Do you agree with those three teachings posting, each in its own thread, in this same forum? If you do not, and you will not provide Scriptures that will refute them, then continuing on will not be of any value to you. As you can see, Pilgrimer and shturt678 are still stuck on Rabbinic Judaism and/or a sundown day start. What I'm teaching is of no value to them if they cannot break from that and come into agreement with the Scriptures.

Thank you folks for responding, and caring for sure!

This is a little above my paygrade, however will do the best I can even raising the bar above the next paygrade above me...a rough one.

Will tackle Lev.23:5-8, only because I had a prof. that was more of a driller than just a prof. referencing Lev. consistently. Summarizing again: Lev.23:8, macharath hashavath [assembly-of...the-seventh] (the morrow after the Sabbath) signifies the next day after the first day of the feast day of the feast of Mazzoth, ie, the 16th Abib (Nisan), not the day of the Sabbath which fell in the seven days' feast of Mazzoth [Josh. v.11, but the definite article used, hashavath, which points back to one of the feast-days already mentioned, and still more decisively by the contextual circumstance, that according to v.15 the seven weeks, at the close of which the feast of Pentecost was to be kept, were to be reckoned from the Sabbath]

Am sure you understand the following, however just to be perfectly clear: The "Sabbath" does not mean the 7th day of the week, but the day of rest, although the weekly Sabbath was always the 7th or last day of the week; hence not only the 7th day of the week (Exod.31:15), but the day of atonement (the 10th of the 7th month), is called "Sabbath," and "shabbath shabbathon." Finally coming to my end point:

As a day of rest, on which no laborious work was to be performed (Lev.23:8), the first day of the feast of Mazzoth is called "Sabbath," irrespectively of the day of the week upon which it fell; and "the morrow after the Sabbath" is equivalent to "the morrow after the Passover" mentioned in Josh. v.11, where "Passover" signifies the day at the beginning of which the paschal meal was held, ie, first day of unleavened bread, which commenced on the eve of the 14th, in other words, the 15th Abib.

Old Jack's opinion

I'm older now....so the sabbath means more.... I take my sabbaths seriously.......so I've declared each and every day the sabbath....
Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

shturt678 said:

Thank you folks for responding, and caring for sure!

This is a little above my paygrade, however will do the best I can even raising the bar above the next paygrade above me...a rough one.

Will tackle Lev.23:5-8, only because I had a prof. that was more of a driller than just a prof. referencing Lev. consistently. Summarizing again: Lev.23:8, macharath hashavath [assembly-of...the-seventh] (the morrow after the Sabbath) signifies the next day after the first day of the feast day of the feast of Mazzoth, ie, the 16th Abib (Nisan), not the day of the Sabbath which fell in the seven days' feast of Mazzoth [Josh. v.11, but the definite article used, hashavath, which points back to one of the feast-days already mentioned, and still more decisively by the contextual circumstance, that according to v.15 the seven weeks, at the close of which the feast of Pentecost was to be kept, were to be reckoned from the Sabbath]

Am sure you understand the following, however just to be perfectly clear: The "Sabbath" does not mean the 7th day of the week, but the day of rest, although the weekly Sabbath was always the 7th or last day of the week; hence not only the 7th day of the week (Exod.31:15), but the day of atonement (the 10th of the 7th month), is called "Sabbath," and "shabbath shabbathon." Finally coming to my end point:

As a day of rest, on which no laborious work was to be performed (Lev.23:8), the first day of the feast of Mazzoth is called "Sabbath," irrespectively of the day of the week upon which it fell; and "the morrow after the Sabbath" is equivalent to "the morrow after the Passover" mentioned in Josh. v.11, where "Passover" signifies the day at the beginning of which the paschal meal was held, ie, first day of unleavened bread, which commenced on the eve of the 14th, in other words, the 15th Abib.

Old Jack's opinion

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Thanks for coming back.

Yes, I do understand the word Sabbath applies to more holy convocation days than just the weekly Saturday Sabbath. But I need to ask you about your understanding of Passover and the Feast of Unleavened Bread. Do you understand that these are two completely different and distinct unleavened feast that have nothing to do with one another other than their closed proximity (one right after the other with no days inbetween) on the calendar? Rabbinic Judaism blurs this fact. The Bible teaches it quite plainly, but most people have their Rabbinic glasses on when they read the Bible and cannot see it. Take off the Rabbinic glasses and tell your professor to do the same.

Sorry, I cannot comment on your comment “Lev.23:8http://biblia.com/bible/hcsb/Lev.23.8, macharath hashavath [assembly-of…the-seventh]” because those words are not in Leviticus 23:8 nor in Leviticus 23 at all. Although mochorath is in Joshua 5:11, but I cannot find hashavath. Maybe you could provide a Strong’s number for both of these words.

However, I agree, the next day after the first day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread (which you are referring to with Hebrew terms as feast of Mazzoh) Abib/Nisan 16. Abib 16 is Sunday (I only use the terms Sunday thru Saturday because it helps us visualize where these days fall in our modern times, these names of the days of the week did not exist in Biblical times).

I also agree that Leviticus 23:15 is referring to the day after the Sabbath. Verse 15 identifies Sunday Abib 16 as the day after the Sabbath. And this Sabbath is the first day of the seven days of the Feast of Unleavened Bread which is an annual Sabbath as well as a weekly Sabbath, which is Saturday Abib 15.

So, up to this point we are apparently in agreement. The problem arises with your next statement: “"the morrow after the Sabbath" is equivalent to "the morrow after the Passover" mentioned in Josh. v.11, where "Passover" signifies the day at the beginning of which the paschal meal was held, ie, first day of unleavened bread, which commenced on the eve of the 14th, in other words, the 15th Abib.” This is a misstatement of that which the Scripture teaches us. It is a built-in problem if one tries to change the Scriptures (as this professor has apparently done, by teaching that a day start is sunset, rather than that which the Bible teaches which is sunrise).

The morrow (Abib 16) after the Sabbath (Abib 15) is not the morrow after Passover (Abib 14). Passover (Abib 14) was on the day prior to the weekly Sabbath (Abib 15). Leviticus 23:5 makes this very clear. Leviticus 23:6 also makes this very clear. It is also explained in Exodus 12 and a few other places.

Another problem is this false statement that the seven weeks are reckoned from the Sabbath. We just went through these Scriptures. The seven week count begins on the day after the Sabbath, Sunday Abib 16, which is Sheaf Wave Day, Lev. 23:10-12,15.

RANDOR said:

I'm older now....so the sabbath means more.... I take my sabbaths seriously.......so I've declared each and every day the sabbath....
Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

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I'm with you on this one Randor. Every day is a Sabbath for me. Are you really 99, or is that just a tongue and cheek answer to an inquisitive blog? I am 67. And if you were saved before the Sabbath discussion, then you will be saved after it, no need to worry, that doesn't change.

i think this issue begs the question. ~ is God a lawyer or a lover? My God is inclusive - He loves us.......He is recruiting, not trying to weed us out. i believe this because He allows us to exist though grace. if He hated us he would have distroyed us a long time ago.

Choosing to have faith in Gods mercy, love, and redemption is the narrow road.......once you trust Him, you can love outwardly.

zeke25 said:

Thanks for coming back.

Yes, I do understand the word Sabbath applies to more holy convocation days than just the weekly Saturday Sabbath. But I need to ask you about your understanding of Passover and the Feast of Unleavened Bread. Do you understand that these are two completely different and distinct unleavened feast that have nothing to do with one another other than their closed proximity (one right after the other with no days inbetween) on the calendar? Rabbinic Judaism blurs this fact. The Bible teaches it quite plainly, but most people have their Rabbinic glasses on when they read the Bible and cannot see it. Take off the Rabbinic glasses and tell your professor to do the same.

Sorry, I cannot comment on your comment “Lev.23:8http://biblia.com/bible/hcsb/Lev.23.8, macharath hashavath [assembly-of…the-seventh]” because those words are not in Leviticus 23:8 nor in Leviticus 23 at all. Although mochorath is in Joshua 5:11, but I cannot find hashavath. Maybe you could provide a Strong’s number for both of these words.

However, I agree, the next day after the first day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread (which you are referring to with Hebrew terms as feast of Mazzoh) Abib/Nisan 16. Abib 16 is Sunday (I only use the terms Sunday thru Saturday because it helps us visualize where these days fall in our modern times, these names of the days of the week did not exist in Biblical times).

I also agree that Leviticus 23:15 is referring to the day after the Sabbath. Verse 15 identifies Sunday Abib 16 as the day after the Sabbath. And this Sabbath is the first day of the seven days of the Feast of Unleavened Bread which is an annual Sabbath as well as a weekly Sabbath, which is Saturday Abib 15.

So, up to this point we are apparently in agreement. The problem arises with your next statement: “"the morrow after the Sabbath" is equivalent to "the morrow after the Passover" mentioned in Josh. v.11, where "Passover" signifies the day at the beginning of which the paschal meal was held, ie, first day of unleavened bread, which commenced on the eve of the 14th, in other words, the 15th Abib.” This is a misstatement of that which the Scripture teaches us. It is a built-in problem if one tries to change the Scriptures (as this professor has apparently done, by teaching that a day start is sunset, rather than that which the Bible teaches which is sunrise).

The morrow (Abib 16) after the Sabbath (Abib 15) is not the morrow after Passover (Abib 14). Passover (Abib 14) was on the day prior to the weekly Sabbath (Abib 15). Leviticus 23:5 makes this very clear. Leviticus 23:6 also makes this very clear. It is also explained in Exodus 12 and a few other places.

Another problem is this false statement that the seven weeks are reckoned from the Sabbath. We just went through these Scriptures. The seven week count begins on the day after the Sabbath, Sunday Abib 16, which is Sheaf Wave Day, Lev. 23:10-12,15.

I'm with you on this one Randor. Every day is a Sabbath for me. Are you really 99, or is that just a tongue and cheek answer to an inquisitive blog? I am 67. And if you were saved before the Sabbath discussion, then you will be saved after it, no need to worry, that doesn't change.

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Thank you for your response!

Had a family crises that our Lord is taking care of and will be doing a balancing act between this forum and being a full time care giver...thank you Jesus. I did want to be clear regarding the "Jewish Passover" and the "Feast of Unleaven Bread."

"Jewish Passover" Regardless of what the day of the week, the Jewish Passover always came on the 15th of Nisan. In this year the 15th of Nisan, the day of the Passover, occurred on a Friday (which began at sundown on Thursday of course).

"Feast of Unleaven Bread" Altogether 8 days beginning with Thursday in the day (14th Nisan - Lamb slain) Celebration afternoon and evening (eating of the paschal lamb).

Old Jack's opinion

shturt678s said:

Thank you for your response!

Had a family crises that our Lord is taking care of and will be doing a balancing act between this forum and being a full time care giver...thank you Jesus. I did want to be clear regarding the "Jewish Passover" and the "Feast of Unleaven Bread."

"Jewish Passover" Regardless of what the day of the week, the Jewish Passover always came on the 15th of Nisan. In this year the 15th of Nisan, the day of the Passover, occurred on a Friday (which began at sundown on Thursday of course).

"Feast of Unleaven Bread" Altogether 8 days beginning with Thursday in the day (14th Nisan - Lamb slain) Celebration afternoon and evening (eating of the paschal lamb).

Old Jack's opinion

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Good to see you back, but I’m sorry to hear that you have family health problems. I pray they may be temporary.

Old Jack said: "Jewish Passover" Regardless of what the day of the week, the Jewish Passover always came on the 15th of Nisan. In this year the 15th of Nisan, the day of the Passover, occurred on a Friday (which began at sundown on Thursday of course).

Zeke25 reply: This is true in our century under the current Rabbinic Calendar and traditions. But this is not true during all Biblical times. And we are discussing crucifixion week, which is during Biblical times. Rabbinical Judaism and their current corrupt calendar did not exist during all Biblical times.

You can no more insert Rabbinical Judaism into the 1st century than you could take a set of spark plugs from your car and install them into a 1st century donkey drawn cart. They don’t fit, there is no where to put them, they do not belong to that century.

In all Biblical times the single day of Passover was always on Abib 14 - both the sacrifice in the afternoon and the feast that occurs after sundown. They both occur on Friday Abib 14.

Exodus 12:6 TIB, "And it shall be for you to keep until the fourteenth day of this month. And all the assembly of the congregation of Israel shall kill it between the evenings."

Exodus 12:8 KJV, "And they shall eat the flesh in that night, roast with fire, and unleavened bread; and with bitter herbs they shall eat it.”

Exodus 12:14 KJV, "And this day shall be unto you for a memorial; and ye shall keep it a feast to [Yahowah] throughout your generations; ye shall keep it a feast by an ordinance for ever.”

Exodus 12:21 KJV, "Then Moses called for all the elders of Israel, and said unto them, Draw out and take you a lamb according to your families, and kill the passover."

Exodus 12:22 KJV, "And ye shall take a bunch of hyssop, and dip it in the blood that is in the bason, and strike the lintel and the two side posts with the blood that is in the bason; and none of you shall go out at the door of his house until the morning."

Exodus 12:23-24 KJV, "23 For [Yahowah] will pass through to smite the Egyptians; and when he seeth the blood upon the lintel, and on the two side posts, [Yahowah] will pass over the door, and will not suffer the destroyer to come in unto your houses to smite you. 24 And ye shall observe this thing for an ordinance to thee and to thy sons for ever."

Exodus 12:27 KJV, "That ye shall say, It is the sacrifice of [Yahowah's] passover, who passed over the houses of the children of Israel in Egypt, when he smote the Egyptians, and delivered our houses. And the people bowed the head and worshipped.”

Leviticus 23:5 TIB, "In the first month, on the fourteenth of the month, between the evenings, is the Passover to [Yahowah].”

Numbers 9:3 TIB, "In the fourteenth day of this month, between the evenings, you shall prepare it according to all its statutes, and according to all its ordinances.”

Numbers 28:16 KJV, "And in the fourteenth day of the first month is the passover of [Yahowah]."

*Ezra 6:19 KJV, "And the children of the captivity kept the passover upon the fourteenth day of the first month.”

So Thursday has nothing to do with Friday’s Passover. Thursday is the last preparation day for Friday’s Passover. Friday’s single day of Passover begins at sunrise Friday morning, continues past sundown on Friday, continues past midnight on Friday, and only ends when the sun rises on Saturday morning.

The seven days of the Feast of Unleavened Bread begins at sunrise Saturday morning, Abib 15, and continues through Friday Abib 21.

Biblical days, during all Biblical times began at sunrise. Rabbinical Judaism has changed the times and has invented a day start at sunset, which God never instructed them to, nor does He approve of it. He hasn’t changed calendars, He is the same yesterday, as today, and will be tomorrow. You have to get off the Rabbinical bus, its destination will never take you to the truth.

Thank you zeke!

Jn.19:14 has always been my take off passage regarding this issue, "Now it was the Passover Preparation;...." This should be of no issue whatever. Lk.23:54 writes, "it was the day of the preparation, and the Sabbath drew on"; compare Matt.27:62. Mk.15:42 has, "the preparation, that is, the day before the Sabbath," "the pro-Sabbath." And John himself repeats "the preparation," in Jn.19:31 and 42.

All this means that the day of the condemnation and the crucifixion of Jesus is Friday. Because it preceded the Sabbath it was called "the preparation" in the sense that this was its regular and common name at that time zeke.

Old Jack only positing down a reference point we can both take to the bank.

shturt678s, Lot's needs to be said in response to your post, but I'm on the eve of a week's journey. May not have computer access while I'm gone. I'll be back. Zeke25

zeke25 said:

shturt678s, Lot's needs to be said in response to your post, but I'm on the eve of a week's journey. May not have computer access while I'm gone. I'll be back. Zeke25

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Look forward to it in a positive way!

Old Jack

rstrats said:

Someone new looking in who thinks that the crucifixion took place on the 6th day of the week, and who thinks that the "heart of the earth" is referring to the tomb, and who tries to get around Matthew 12:40 by saying it is using commom Jewish idiomatic language, will know of some writing as requested in the OP.

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Thank you for caring!

Let's not forget that all the synoptists record about Jesus' eating the Passover on Thursday evening thus more evidence that Jesus died on Friday.

Old Jack

rstrats said:

shturt678s,

re: "Let's not forget that all the synoptists record about Jesus' eating the Passover on Thursday evening thus more evidence that Jesus died on Friday."



So as a 6th day of the week crucifixion advocate, do you know of any writing as asked for in the OP?


BTW, what hours would the evening of the 5th day of the week encompass?

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Thank you for your response again!

Question 1 is above my paygrade, however 2 (Friday), Jn.19:14, ...the hour was about the sixth." Well according to Mk.15:25 (about 0800), Jesus was crucified at the third hour Friday, our 9 A.M. All the synoptists, as no one disputes that I'm aware except, reckon the hours in the ol' Jewish fashion, namely 12 for the period of daylight, starting with the dawn and ending with sunset.

Old Jack's opinion

shturt678s said:

Thank you zeke!

Jn.19:14 has always been my take off passage regarding this issue, "Now it was the Passover Preparation;...." This should be of no issue whatever. Lk.23:54 writes, "it was the day of the preparation, and the Sabbath drew on"; compare Matt.27:62. Mk.15:42 has, "the preparation, that is, the day before the Sabbath," "the pro-Sabbath." And John himself repeats "the preparation," in Jn.19:31 and 42.

All this means that the day of the condemnation and the crucifixion of Jesus is Friday. Because it preceded the Sabbath it was called "the preparation" in the sense that this was its regular and common name at that time zeke.

Old Jack only positing down a reference point we can both take to the bank.

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shturt678s,

Let me ask you a couple of questions.

Who would like to confuse the events of crucifixion week more than any one else? The answer is Satan.

Who else would like to confuse the events of crucifixion week just as much as Satan? The Rabbinic Jews of course. They deny Christ. They deny that He was God. In fact, they killed Him because He said He was God. They have done nothing but lie, lie, lie for two thousands years about Christ and crucifixion week. They have condemned members of their own families to mental institutions when they get saved and believe in Yahoshua the Christ. So why, in the name of every thing that is holy, would you lean upon their teachings and consider them to be valid? Why, in the name of every thing that is holy, would you listen to and believe any church that teaches this same heresy and blasphemy, Jewish or Christian or otherwise? Would it not be easier to believe the Holy Bible?

Now in answer to your propositions, unfortunately, we cannot take this to the bank. You’re still riding the Rabbinic Judaism bus. Rabbinic Judaism did not exist during crucifixion week. Rabbinic Judaism did not begin to come into existence until 100 to 200 years later.

The preparation day spoken of in these Scriptures is not “the pro-Sabbath”, never was and never will be.

There were up to four preparation days prior to Friday Abib 14 Passover. The last of these four days was Thursday Abib 13.

2.c. From Exodus 12 we also know that there were four preparation days prior to Passover.

Exodus 12:3 KJV, "Speak ye unto all the congregation of Israel, saying, In the tenth day of this month they shall take to them every man a lamb, according to the house of their fathers, a lamb for an house[.]”

Exodus 12:6 KJV, "And ye shall keep it up until the fourteenth day of the same month: and the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel shall kill it [between the evenings].”

2.d. From Exodus 12 we also know that there were no preparation days prior to the seven days of the Feast of Unleavened Bread.

Exodus 12:29 KJV, "And they baked unleavened cakes of the dough which they brought forth out of Egypt, for it was not leavened; because they were thrust out of Egypt, and could not tarry, neither had they prepared for themselves any victual."

2.e. Knowing the placement of these two Holy Convocations within a week and within the month of Abib is critical to the proper interpretation of the chronology of events and days during crucifixion week.

Leviticus 23:4-6 KJV, "4 These are the feasts of [Yahowah], even holy convocations, which ye shall proclaim in their seasons. 5 In the fourteenth day of the first month [between the evenings] is [Yahowah's] passover. 6 And on the fifteenth day (this 15th day is not speaking of the day of Passover at all, it is speaking to Saturday sunrise Abib 15 which is the first day of the seven days of the Feast of Unleavened Bread, Passover ended prior to Saturday sunrise) of the same month is the feast of unleavened bread unto [Yahowah]: seven days ye must eat unleavened bread.”

So, when these Scripture speak of the crucifixion occurring on “preparation day”, they are speaking to the last of the 4 preparation days prior to Passover. This “preparation day” is Thursday Abib 13. Passover begins at sunrise on Friday Abib 14. By that time Yahoshua was already dead for one day and one night.

THE DAY OF THE CRUCIFIXION IS PREPARATION DAY FOR PASSOVER, NOT THE DAY OF PASSOVER

9.a. In the four gospels, when preparation day is spoken of, it always is referring to the last preparation day prior to and for Passover. John 19:14 KJV, "And it was the preparation of the passover, and about the sixth hour: and he saith unto the Jews, Behold your King!"

9.b. The last preparation day for Passover is the day prior to Passover. Therefore, the last preparation day is always Thursday Abib 13. The Bible, in all four gospels, teaches that Christ Yahoshua was crucified on preparation day. This preparation day is spoken of as the day of crucifixion in all four gospels: Matthew 27:62, Mark 15:42, Luke 23:54, and John 19:31.

9.c. Matthew 27:62-63 KJV, "62 Now the next day, that followed the day of the preparation, the chief priests and Pharisees came together unto Pilate. 63 Saying, Sir, we remember that that deceiver said, while he was yet alive, After three days I will rise again." As you can see, these passages show that the crucifixion took place yesterday on preparation day for the Passover. The day time of Thursday Abib 13 and the night time of Thursday were now behind them. They were now in day 2 of His death, which is Passover Friday Abib 14.

9.d. Mark 15:42-43 KJV, "42 And now when the even was come, because it was the preparation, that is, the day before the sabbath, 43 Joseph of Arimathaea, an honourable counsellor, which also waited for the kingdom of God, came, and went in boldly unto Pilate, and craved the body of [Yahoshua]." This Scripture explains that Yahoshua was crucified on the preparation day, not on Passover, which was the last preparation day before the upcoming Passover. One of the time markers in this passage is "even". This means that Thursday day was behind them and now is was after sundown and it was now Thursday night. Another time marker is "the day before the sabbath". The sabbath of Passover will begin when the sun rises tomorrow morning.

9.e. Luke 23:53-54 KJV, "53 And he took it down, and wrapped it in linen, and laid it in a sepulchre that was hewn in stone, wherein never man before was laid. 54 And that day was the preparation, and the sabbath drew on." The first time marker in this passage is "And that day was the preparation". In other words, Yahoshua was crucified on the preparation day before the Passover, not on Passover. The second time marker "the sabbath drew on" is, of course, the day of Passover. And to say it "drew on" meant that it was nearing sunrise. In other words it was late Thursday night; i.e., in the early morning hours of the night, prior to sunrise Friday.

9.f. John 19:31 KJV, "The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the [stakes] on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was an high day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away." Once again, we are told that the preparation day was the day of the crucifixion. And the Jews did not want the bodies to remain upon the execution stakes on the sabbath day. We know this was Passover because it was described as a high day. Only Passover is a high sabbath day. It is the first and chief day of all the sabbaths in Scripture. It is the only Holy Convocation day that does not require the Hebrews to refrain from servile work. It is the high sabbath that spared the life of every Hebrew that applied the blood of the lambs to their doorposts, while the first born of all of Egypt's men and animals died. Furthermore, we know that the bodies were not taken down until after sunset because of Mark 15:42 above.

To make this even more clear I need to stress a correction to your statement: “Because it preceded the Sabbath it was called "the preparation" in the sense that this was its regular and common name at that time zeke.” Absolutely not! It was not the regular and common name at that time! This is the whole point. At that time in history this was not the regular and common name. This is a Satanic invention of Rabbinic Judaism several hundred years later.

Let me ask you a couple of questions.

Who would like to confuse the events of crucifixion week more than any one else? The answer is Satan.

Who else would like to confuse the events of crucifixion week just as much as Satan? The Rabbinic Jews of course. They deny Christ. They deny that He was God. In fact, they killed Him because He said He was God. They have done nothing but lie, lie, lie for two thousands years about Christ and crucifixion week. They have condemned members of their own families to mental institutions when they get saved and believe in Yahoshua the Christ. So why, in the name of every thing that is holy, would you lean upon their teachings and consider them to be valid? Why, in the name of every thing that is holy, would you listen to and believe any church that teaches this same heresy and blasphemy, Jewish or Christian or otherwise? Would it not be easier to believe the Holy Bible?

shturt678s said:

Thank you for your response again!

Question 1 is above my paygrade, however 2 (Friday), Jn.19:14, ...the hour was about the sixth." Well according to Mk.15:25 (about 0800), Jesus was crucified at the third hour Friday, our 9 A.M. All the synoptists, as no one disputes that I'm aware except, reckon the hours in the ol' Jewish fashion, namely 12 for the period of daylight, starting with the dawn and ending with sunset.

Old Jack's opinion

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BTW, your answer to Mark 15:25 and John 19:14 is given in this forum under the thread named “Counting Hours (In The Bible), Mark 15:25 & John 19:14 Exegesis”.

Also, all four gospels teach that the Last Supper was eaten on Wednesday night Abib 12. Christ did not eat the Passover that year, He was crucified prior to Passover. Passover was the 2nd day of His being dead.

Last Supper - Wednesday night.

Arrested - Wednesday night.

Crucified - Thursday day.

Passover - Friday.

shturt678s,
A note of clarification regarding my statement: The preparation day spoken of in these Scriptures is not “the pro-Sabbath”, never was and never will be. I am speaking to that which appears to be your understanding of "the pro-Sabbath". Your understanding is that it is speaking of Friday. It is not speaking of Friday at all. It is speaking of the last preparation day prior to Friday, because Friday is a Sabbath.

I've had more time to go over R.C.H. Lenski's commentary on these passages. I assume that is where you are getting your information. I have no kind words to say about his commentary on these passages. It is beyond inaccurate, it is pitifully and abysmally an insult to academia.

Maybe you're correct thus let's take one sound byte from Jn.19:31, "...since it was Preparation Day..for great was the day of that Sabbath.." and scrutinize it.

Jesus died about three o'clock Friday not wanting the bodies to remain upon the crosses on the Sabbath (Deut.21:22, etc.) which would be when the first star showed itself Friday eve. This was Friday, hence "Preparation Day," that is, the day before the Sabbath, called paraskeue because everything had to be prepared in advance before the Sabbath began in the evening when no more work like buying, cooking food, cleaning, etc. could be performed. This was one consideration. It was augmented by another, namely that the approaching Sabbath was a day that was "great" beyond an ordinary Sabbath.

This was the Sabbath of Passover week, which was thereby lifted into a sacredness that was above all other Sabbath days. On the question as to whether this great Sabbath was the first day of the Passover, the day on which the Passover Lamb was eaten Jn.18:28, "might eat the Passover." reconciles.

I cannot find fault with the former thus my premise stands, correct?

Old Jack

shturt678s said:

Maybe you're correct thus let's take one sound byte from Jn.19:31, "...since it was Preparation Day..for great was the day of that Sabbath.." and scrutinize it.

Jesus died about three o'clock Friday not wanting the bodies to remain upon the crosses on the Sabbath (Deut.21:22, etc.) which would be when the first star showed itself Friday eve. This was Friday, hence "Preparation Day," that is, the day before the Sabbath, called paraskeue because everything had to be prepared in advance before the Sabbath began in the evening when no more work like buying, cooking food, cleaning, etc. could be performed. This was one consideration. It was augmented by another, namely that the approaching Sabbath was a day that was "great" beyond an ordinary Sabbath.

This was the Sabbath of Passover week, which was thereby lifted into a sacredness that was above all other Sabbath days. On the question as to whether this great Sabbath was the first day of the Passover, the day on which the Passover Lamb was eaten Jn.18:28, "might eat the Passover." reconciles.

I cannot find fault with the former thus my premise stands, correct?

Old Jack

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shturt678s,

Mark 15:42-43 KJV, "42 And now when the even was come, because it was the preparation, that is, the day before the sabbath, 43 Joseph of Arimathaea, an honourable counsellor, which also waited for the kingdom of God, came, and went in boldly unto Pilate, and craved the body of [Yahoshua].” This is a repeat. These two Scriptures show that it was already after sundown (stars don’t mean anything, only our personal star - the sun), before Joseph even asked for His Body. That means It was still hanging. That would mean that the Pharisees goal of not having anyone hanging on a tree on the Sabbath had not been met; i.e., if a new day started at sundown (which it does not). So, this Scripture alone, and of course I have supporting Scriptures, proves that a day begins at sunrise. John 19:31 KJV, "The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the [stakes] on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was an high day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away.”

As far as John 18:28 is concerned, let’s look at it.

John 18:28 KJV "Then led they [Yahoshua] from Caiaphas unto the hall of judgment: and it was early; and they themselves went not into the judgment hall, lest they should be defiled; but that they might eat the passover." If Yahoshua had eaten the Passover Feast the night before, then there would be no Passover Feast for the Pharisees to eat in the future. Everyone, by law, eats the Passover at the same time. There is no allowance for some to eat it one night and some Jews to eat it the next day. The Last Supper was not the Passover Feast, therefore, the eating of it was still in the future.

As far as determining which is the greatest sabbath of all, please think about it. Passover taught us that it is the Blood of Yahoshua that cleanses us from all sin and delivers us from the Lake of Fire. The Hebrews only understood, on the first Passover, that their lives were spared while thousands or even hundreds of thousands of Egyptians died.

Now, the Feast of Unleavened Bread has become a celebration for the Jews in that they were delivered from the slavery of Egypt. Beginning on Saturday Abib 15 they began their march out of the Land of Goshen. In fact, they didn’t actually depart until after the day time of Saturday had finished and night time had begun - and it was still the Abib 15. (Another teaching with Scriptural support).

So I ask you. Is it greater to be delivered from hell and death, or is it greater to be delivered from bondage? I hope the answer is self-evident. So, Passover is the greater (the higher) Sabbath above all Sabbaths. It is the precursor of salvation for all men who will come. It is the very core of the gospel of Christ.

The Jews, Satan, and many others hate this. They hate it because they refuse to believe and be saved. They, like Cain, want to be saved by their own devices and their own thoughts and ideas. They do not fear God. They follow the gospel of man.

Jack, I didn’t come to this conclusions overnight. I’ve been working on this for over a decade (but really the beginnings were over 50 years ago). First, I had to get all the junk out of my head that the translators, scholars, pastors, and church taught me. Then I had to examine and study the Bible without those pre-conceived agendas. I had to see what God was really teaching us through the Scriptures. It is not microwave theology. It took the guidance of the Holy Ghost, prayer, and a love of the truth that He put in me.

Maybe you should just rest on this for awhile. You’ve been given a lot to chew on. But somewhere down the road you will have to make a decision. Either stay with what is comfortable and compatible with your Christian associations, or step out because you can no longer deny the truth of the Scriptures that I have shared with you. The decision is between you and God. Take the crowded path or the lonely path.

May God bless you with a hunger for truth.
Rick

zeke25 said:

May God bless you with a hunger for truth.
Rick

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zeke.............if ya only knew how much of the word Ol Jack eats..crums and all......leaves nothin for the rest of us.
And never asks for Rolaids........and still keeps that strappin figure.