The Godhead

Yes He was God from the BEGINNING (John 1:1) - BEFORE the Incarnation. As a matter of fact - His sacrifice is ALSO an eternal one.
Rev. 13:8 tells us that Christ was crucified before the foundation of the world.

"was" God?. question, which beginning, is John 1:1 is talking about, is it Genesis 1:1 beginning, a yes or n o will do.

next, is the son of man and the son of God. is these two the same, yes or no.

one thing at a time.

As for the use of the Word, "was" in John 1:1 - it is NOT implying that Jesus WAS God but isn't God anymore
the same one speaking".

explain HOW Jesus isn't God anymore

HUH??? I didn't say He WASN'T God
I suggest that you read more carefully and pay attention to the posts.

ok pay attention to this, Isaiah 35:4 "Say to them that are of a fearful heart, Be strong, fear not: behold, your God will come with vengeance, even God with a recompence; he will come and save you.

ok who came?.


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well churchauthority, your jeopardy time clock is up. you said that the Father is one person, and the son is another person, or the second person in the Godhead. so which one is it that is coming?.

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2 Guestman,
while we wait on ca, response. you stated, "Determining the context is crucial for understanding the meaning of Scriptures. Otherwise, a person could be taking the Scriptures out of context and a misapplication results. It pays to read the whole chapter and perhaps several surrounding chapters to determine the real meaning. Thus, using the expression "I am the first and the last" does not always equate with the same person throughout the Bible. At Isaiah 48:12, who is speaking and what did he mean ?


Thus, using the expression "I am the first and the last" does not always equate with the same person throughout the Bible
well lets see if this is true. (KJV), Isaiah 41:4 "Who hath wrought and done it, calling the generations from the beginning? I the LORD, the first, and with the last; I am he".
now, your new world translation
(NWT), Isaiah 41:4 "Who has been active and has done [this], calling out the generations from the start? I, Jehovah, the First One; and with the last ones I am the same.

your own bible translation say the first and the last is the same one. now aint that something. "the same one".

You are still failing to understand that He is ONE. God is ONE:
The Father is GOD.
The Son is GOD.
The Holy Spirit is GOD.

I'm glad you stated that
you said that the father and the son is not the same person. GOOD, so who is this Isaiah 43:11 "I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.
notice the all cap in LORD, and the only Saviour is the LORD. so who is this, the "LORD", the person you call father, or the Person you call son which one?.

NO, answer the question. we are speaking of PERSON in the Godhead. you say it is three PERSON in the Godhead.

you said that the father and the son is not the same person. so the LORD, all cap is it the "Son" yes or NO?

because we have scripture stating that Psalms 110:1 "A Psalm of David. The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool". so ca, which PERSON is the "LORD" all caps, the father, or the son.

if it's one God then its one PERSON. if you say a first, then a second, and a third then it's not one PERSON. its just that simple. the words "father ", "son", "Holy Spirit", are only titles of the same PERSON, not three, but only one PERSON.

so make up your mind, is it three PERSON, one GOD, or three God, one PERSON. either way you go is a dead end.

well churchauthority, you have explain NOTHING. you run your mouth and that's all.

I asked a simple question. is the LORD all caps the Son or the Father. you can't answer. you say Jesus is not the Father, I say the LORD is JESUS, and I say the LORD all caps is Jesus in flesh. that's real simple. why , Isaiah 42:13 "The LORD shall go forth as a mighty man, he shall stir up jealousy like a man of war: he shall cry, yea, roar; he shall prevail against his enemies".

and Isaiah 63:5 "And I looked, and there was none to help; and I wondered that there was none to uphold: therefore mine own arm brought salvation unto me; and my fury, it upheld me". my own ARM?. yes who is the ARM of GOD?, Jesus the Christ, GOD in flesh.

see how simple I give scripture. the LORD said unto my Lord. Notice DAVID only said this in Spirit. for the Spirit he is no man Son. but according to the flesh, or while in flesh, meaning the flesh birth from Mary, he's David son. see how simple the scriptures are. now to understand this go back to POST #12 and read it slow.

well churchauthority,
your doctrine is in serious jeopardy,
As for your last question about the Son of Man and the Son of God, they are the SAME - when referring to Jesus. The Hypostatic Union does not allow for His 2 natures to be separated. Elsewhere, in the Old Testament, we see others being referred to as a "son of man", which simply means HUMAN.

the son of Man is from heaven. the Son of God is from Mary. The son of Man is Spirit, the son of God is the Flesh that the son of Man came in. notice the capitalization on "Spirit". listen, 2 Corinthians 3:17 "Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. is there two Spirits?. NO. Romans 8:9 "But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his". the Spirit of Christ is the Spirit of God, the "SAME SPIRIT".

now that's two lies you have told. don't let it be a third.

your three Person have been eliminate. because either way you go with the LORD as father or son. it is the "SAME" "PERSON", now your false doctrine of The Hypostatic Union. you said it does not allow for His 2 natures to be separated. this is a lie also. you better brush up on partaker vs took part.
Question, is the life of the son of God is the same life of the Son of Man. now, think before you answer.

second question, was it the son of God crucified, or the Son of Man. this will tell us what life is what. I say that the Son of Man always is, was, and is to come. and it was the Son of Man crucified.

just like he, JESUS, told Moses, "I AM THAT I AM". and he told John on the Island of Patmos, he, "which is, and which was, and which is to come". is the "SAME", one "PERSON. Moses spoke to the same Spirit without flesh and blood, and again John the apostle spoke with the SAME Spirit in UNGLORIFIED flesh with blood, as well as in GLORIFIED FLESH without BLOOD.

2 Dan57, GINOLJC

Yes, one God... Imo, the trinity or tri-unity just describes the 3 attributes of a single Godhead, the 3 work and have always existed as one entity.

ok, IYO, are you calling these 3 attributes PERSONS Yes or No?.

that God was made of more than 1 Person but at the same time there was one Godhead

God was MADE?. sorry God is not made. listen, 1 Timothy 3:16 "And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory".
God was manifested in flesh. question, when was God manifested in flesh?. answer, when the Lord Jesus walked the Earth. now if God (one person) manifested in flesh how many PERSON is that, one or two. remember God manifested in flesh. I say that's ONE PERSON.

Genesis 1:1 "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth."Elohiym used here is the plural form of God.

I have answered this question in another post, but it is closed now, so I'll re-post it again. question, is God plural?, are there more person to God?. well lets see. first I need you to go with me, while we're in Genesis to the 5th chapter and verses 1 & 2. “This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him. 2 Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created”. Did you see it, listen again, “ In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him”, "created he them". did you see it, if not, the net bible for clarity , “5:1 This is the record of the family line of Adam. When God created humankind, he made them in the likeness of God.: 2 He created them male and female; when they were created, he blessed them and named them humankind". If you would notice, in verses 1 and 2 of chapter 5, it said he created man, and he created them male and female. He is singular, and not plural. question, is there a contradiction in the bible?. again I say NO. only a lack of wisdom on our part. So, seeing this lets go back to Genesis 1:26. look at this verse real good, re-read it several times. I did, and I saw the revelation. and it confirms my belief about the three administrations or the three dispensation of God. lets look at the verse again, "And God said, Let us make man in our image, after
our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth". See it, if not, here it is. Question, who is to have dominion?. just the first man and woman, NO. this was a generational thing,
not just for the first and only man and woman, but for every generation of mankind to follow. We see that in 5:1 when the scriptures say “this is the generations, notice the, “s”, on generations at the end of the word. and in the net bible, it say the FAMILY LINE, Meaning more that just the first two, mans, (male, and female) but generations to follow. now how do that tie into the dispensation of God. a dispensation is a time period, or period of times, or (Generations), that God deals with a group of peoples. This is called administrations. Now we can clearly see that there is no conflict, between Genesis 1:26 & 27 and Genesis 5:1 & 2. once we understand the dispensation of God. in Genesis 1:26 & 27 God is reveling himself in mankind. here in Genesis 1:26 & 27, this is the first of three administrations/or dispensation of GOD. here, he is CREATOR and MAKER, (Spirit, know with the title, "FATHER", because he, singular, created and made everything, hence the title "Father"). his second administrations/or dispensation is SAVIOUR and REDEEMER, (here we have the SAME Spirit in a flesh and blood, the body he made in the womb of the woman Mary. the same Spirit, only manifested in diversified form and fashion as a man. this is when our GOD laid down, or gave his life for us, that he knew in the flesh, or natural. and for the first time his personal name is revealed, "YESHUA" in Hebrew, and in English, "JESUS"). and this administration /or dispensation is (Spirit, in flesh, bone, and blood, known as the title, "SON", because he saved and redeemed us by giving his natural life in the flesh, hence the title "Son"). and the third or last administrations/or dispensation he, the SAME Spirit, is COMFORTER and MEDIATOR. supporting scripture, Galatians 3:20 "Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one". this last administrations/or dispensation, which we're in NOW. this dispensation of GRACE. the SAME Spirit is (comforter, and mediator, this is the "ANOTHER" comforter of John 14:16. and is known with the title, "Holy Spirit". God/JESUS in glorified flesh). and when this GRACE period ends. he will be the returning King. to put down all rule. “For he is LORD”, the (Spirit/Holy Spirit), now in Glorified flesh.

There you have it, one God, in three differences of administrations,. supportive scripture, 1 Corinthians 12:6 "And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all". that word Operations means the "WORKS" of God. the same ONE Spirit who worketh all in all. Amen.

So as for as the trinity goes. Not three PERSON in one GOD, but only one PERSON in three dispensation, or administrations, or period of time revealed.
he is Omniscient, he's the alpha and the omega. The beginning and the end, Isaiah said he's the Mighty, (in flesh), and the almighty,(in Glorified flesh meaning he's Omnipotent). and he, singular, Which is to come, Revelation 1:8. he's Father/Spirit Creator, and Maker. and he's the Saviour, Redeemer, the Son, (in Flesh), supportive scripture, Hebrews 1:8 "But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom". the same Lord, the SAME GOD, the SAME Spirit. and he's Omnipresent, he's every where all the time, Jer. 23:23 & 24 "Am I a God at hand, saith the LORD, and not a God afar off? 24 Can any hide himself in secret places that I shall not see him? saith the LORD. Do not I fill heaven and earth? saith the LORD".

Therefore, as scripture was inspired and man began to write the Word, it was evident to the writers that God was made of more than 1 Person but at the same time there was one Godhead.

well lets see if this is true 1 Peter 1:10 "Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you: 11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow". you said, " it was evident to the writers that God was made of more than 1 Person but at the same time there was one Godhead". 1 Peter disagree with you. the Spirit, the Spirit, the Spirit was in the OLD TESTAMENT Prophets. and which Spirit was that?, Christ. read 1 Peter 1:10 & 11 again. and can we back that up with scripture?, YES. 1 Corinthians 10:2 "And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; 3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat; 4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ". well?, was not the Spirit of Christ in the wilderness with Israel?. well lets prove this out. Deuteronomy 32:1 "Give ear, O ye heavens, and I will speak; and hear, O earth, the words of my mouth. 2 My doctrine shall drop as the rain, my speech shall distil as the dew, as the small rain upon the tender herb, and as the showers upon the grass: 3 Because I will publish the name of the LORD: ascribe ye greatness unto our God. 4 He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he"

so who is the Rock?, that Right Jesus the Christ, and the writer of Deuteronomy say that the Rock is GOD. and the apostle Paul said that the Rock is Christ. well?. and the apostle Peter said that it was the Spirit of Christ in the prophets of old who wrote of his salvation, and suffering to come. how simple can it be.
The Father is the unseen, omnipresent Source of all being, revealed in and by the Son,

this is correct Dan, the Father is unseen until he MANIFESTED himself in Flesh and Blood. that's also why his PERSONAL Name was not Given until he MANIFESTED, or revealed himself so that he may give himself, and men may call upon the PERSONAL NAME THAT "SAVES", an unseen God have no PERSONAL reference. but he who is almighty is now seem. that is the witness. Idols gods you can't touch, hear, or see. they give an false appearance in status of stone, wood or clay. but our God is real. for the apostle John said in, 1 John 1:1 "That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life". question, what beginning? not Genesis 1:1. for the apostle John was not there at Genesis 1:1. but he witness the unseen God at John 1:1. YES, when the unseen God step in flesh and blood. yes, John can testify by saying, he handle, (or touched GOD). John saw GOD, and he Heard GOD. HOW, when he "WAS", in flesh and blood. this is the "WAS" in John 1:1. notice all of the "was", in John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God". this beginning in John 1:1 is the NEW BEGINNING of all mankind. if any man be in Christ he's a NEW creature. this is just the tip of the iceberg.

be blessed.

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2 williemac, GINOLJC

Funny, I saw a flock of birds this evening. It is one flock, therefore it must be one bird, no? same logic.

a flock is not one bird. just as one group of People is not ONE PERSON, silly logic, now, that is a funny :blink:

so quit seeing by eye sight, and walk by FAITH. now that's logical.

be blessed.

2 ChurchAuthority, or may we say NOAuthority.

to show you your mistake. if you say that the PERSON whom you call the son is the LORD in Isaiah 35:4 "Say to them that are of a fearful heart, Be strong, fear not: behold, your God will come with vengeance, even God with a recompence; he will come and save you". question then, where is the PERSON whom you call Father?. if you say the PERSON whom you call father is God. then you have a bigger problem. listen, Isaiah 45:15 "Verily thou art a God that hidest thyself, O God of Israel, the Saviour". so the title you use to call the PERSON father, God, is the SAME PERSON whom you call son in Isaiah 35:4. so you are in a catch 22. because God is the Saviour, the "SAME ONE WHO IS CALLED LORD", as Son. so you will be lying to say the Son is the Saviour as God. because you said, and I quote, "Your claim that Jesus is the Father in the flesh is outlandish, given the context of Scripture. Throughout the Gospel, Jesus repeatedly refers to the Father - and how the Son beingis subordinate to the Father. The Son cannot be His own Father. Isaiah 9:6 is NOT telling us that the Son is the Father in the Son in the flesh".
you don't understand the mystery, listen, 1 Timothy 3:16 "And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory". see your ERROR. you ignorantly used a title for a person. the bible plainly tell you that the LORD, whom you say is God, and say is the Son, is the SAME ONE person.

the Spirit of Christ is the FATHER. supportive scripture, 1 Peter 1:10 "Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you: 11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified (STOP for a minute, "the LORD said un to my Lord", this is testimony by the Spirit that was in Christ. supportive scripture, Revelation 19:10b "for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy". do you know what that means NOAuthority?. what the Spirit spoke in the old testament, is fulfilled in the NEW TESTAMENT by the same Spirt now in flesh and blood. I told you to understand the word "of". and from "of" learn the subjective and the objective. the Spirit of testimony is the subjective "of" God. and the Flesh and blood manifested those testimonies, which is the objective of God). now, back to the verse, beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow". who was in the prophet in the old testament?, that's right, Christ was in the OLD TESTAMENT, without flesh, without bone, without blood. you can't tell me that, as you say "his two natures can't be separate". the bible just called you a liar. for the Spirit of Christ, is the FATHER in the diversified spirit, of flesh bone, and blood. we know that the flesh, bone and the blood was not in the old testament. it came from Mary, supportive scripture, Luke 1:35 "And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God". so NOAuthority, where did the Son of God come from?. the womb of Mary. and where did the Son of Man come from?, John 8:23 "And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world". now who said that?. answer, John 8:25 "Then said they unto him, Who art thou? And Jesus saith unto them, Even the same that I said unto you from the beginning". now what beginning is that, John 1:1 or Genesis 1:1. the answer, 1 John 1:1 "That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life" did John handle the word of life at Genesis 1:1 NO, John was not around in Genesis 1:1. so the beginning that the scriptures is talking about is John 1:1. when Jesus/God was in the flesh. can this be supported, yes, Mark 1:1 "The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God; (THAT'S THE BEGINING OF THE SON OF GOD). not before Genesis 1:1). 2 As it is written in the prophets, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee". this is the NEW BEGINNING, the NEW CREATION. and two, as a side note, this is the BEGINING OF THE TWO WITNESS OF REVELATION CHAPTER 11. :unsure:
you better get to know your bible.

Next we will LOOK at the Son of Man and the Son of God. and these two don't cross up in scripture, one is spirit, and the other is flesh, bone, and "BLOOD"

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2 NOAuthority.

Let me ask you a question. you say that the Father and the son are two person. well tell me who was it that converted the apostle Paul, (then Saul) on the road to Damascus. was it Jesus the Son, your second person of the godhead, or God the Father, your first person of the Godhead?. please examine the account in book of Acts chapter 9. and then give me your answer.

thanks in advance.

2 NOAuthority.

You just don't get it do you??
It was GOD, in the Person of Christ.

I asked you was it the son or the Father who spoke to Saul. be it know that the one who spoke to Saul did not say he was the Christ. so which PERSON of your Godhead spoke to Saul?, well. now if you don't know which person of your Godhead spoke, then you default your doctrine as a fraud. because if one can't tell, even after he identified himself, and you don't know, then your doctrine is a lie. because you don't know who the father nor the son is. plain and simple, you're a fraud.

now if you can't answer, be quite. because you're dismissed.