The Kingdom of God

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afishamongmany

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Hello oh strange and wonderous peoples.
I would be interested to hear you have to say about the following;
1- What is "The Kingdom of God"?
2- How is it different from "The Church"? If there is a difference then what is the relationship between "The Kingdom and "The Church"?
3 -How do we preach "The gospel of the Kingdom" (as in Mark 1:14)?

In the New Testement there are 158 references to "kingdom". From John the Baptist through The Lord Jesus to Paul in Rome, the Kingdom of God features as part and parcel of the gospel yet in modern christianity it does not seem to.
Please, I know this is Bible study and sound bites don't do it, but can we try to keep "compact". Three or four spaced "compact" posts are more digestable and enjoyable than a long long scroll however learned it may be.
With much anticipation,
><>
 

Episkopos

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The kingdom of God for us is the spiritual life in the place where God resides....in Zion.

The church is a gathering of people who are to reside IN Christ and proclaim the kingdom life.

We preach the kingdom by testifying of the power to live in reconciliation and fellowship with God Himself. God backs this up by demonstrations of power.
 
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1 The kingdom will be an earthly reign of Christ.
2 The church is all those who will be in His kingdom.
3 We are to preach the Word not just one thing in the word.
 

Arnie Manitoba

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I think in the proper context it was Jews telling Jews about the Kingdom

The gentiles (non-Jews) had no concept or expectation of a Kingdom of God .... nor had they been exposed to Gentile Christianity as we know it.

For us western Gentile Christians it is probably an advantage to read and understand this "talk" about a Kingdom from the perspective of an Israeli citizen during the time of Jesus , and shortly thereafter.
 

afishamongmany

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Ok thanks. When I say “compact” responses I'm thinking in the range of not much more than two screenfuls. But one-liners are fine as well :).

Episkopos said

“The kingdom of God for us is the spiritual life in the place where God resides....in Zion.”
So, yes “spiritual life” as in Luke 17:20,21 and Romans 14:17.

“...in the place where God resides …. in Zion.” Sorry this is too foggy for me. Are we talking geography or Church or ...?

“The church is a gathering of people who are to reside IN Christ and proclaim the kingdom life.”

So, The Church is to announce (the Kingdom?) and demonstrate the Kingdom (life?)?
Yes ok but we then need to be clear about we mean by Kingdom.

“We preach the kingdom by testifying of the power to live in reconciliation and fellowship with God Himself. God backs this up by demonstrations of power.”
“demonstrations of power” as in miracles?

ChristRoseFromTheDead said


“kingdom of GOD, kingdom of heaven, church, Israel, GOD's vine, olive tree... same difference”
“The same difference” is different from “the same thing” :) . But no I don't believe they are all the same. Kingdom of God and Kingdom of Heaven yes same thing. The Church and God's vine yes. Israel and God's vine and olive tree yes. The Kingdom is to be inherited I don't think we inherit The Church? We pray “Thy Kingdom come ..”. The Church is already here.

clark thompson said


“1 The kingdom will be an earthly reign of Christ.
2 The church is all those who will be in His kingdom.
3 We are to preach the Word not just one thing in the word.”

So, 1- Yes, “will be”. But in the here and now are we just to live good and wait or should we be an active “fifth column” for The Kingdom?
2- Are you saying His Kingdom on earth is the same thing as The Church??
3- Agreed, the whole counsel of God, but if we are going to preach The Kingdom we need to understand what it is.

Arnie Manitoba said


“I think in the proper context it was Jews telling Jews about the Kingdom
The gentiles (non-Jews) had no concept or expectation of a Kingdom of God .... nor had they been exposed to Gentile Christianity as we know it.”

This is it Arnie, those jewish people then, hearing - “The Kingdom of God” were already up and running. But “The Kingdom” continued to be preached to the gentiles and I believe continues to be part and parcel of the Gospel. But for my part I'm not clear about it.

“For us western Gentile Christians it is probably an advantage to read and understand this "talk" about a Kingdom from the perspective of an Israeli citizen during the time of Jesus , and shortly thereafter.”
Well that's only possible to a limited extent as I'm not an Israeli citizen from the time of Jesus. And does not The New Covenant bring in whole new dimensions to the question, What is The Kingdom of God?
I'll try soon to lay out my understanding so far, concerning this question. Meanwhile am looking for continuing input. :)
><>
 

Episkopos

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Episkopos said
“The kingdom of God for us is the spiritual life in the place where God resides....in Zion.”
So, yes “spiritual life” as in Luke 17:20,21 and Romans 14:17.

“...in the place where God resides …. in Zion.” Sorry this is too foggy for me. Are we talking geography or Church or ...?
Being in the Spirit is about location location location. Jesus went to prepare abiding places where God dwells (In His Father's house). When we are filled with the Spirit we are found there in Him....seated in heavenly places.




“The church is a gathering of people who are to reside IN Christ and proclaim the kingdom life.”

So, The Church is to announce (the Kingdom?) and demonstrate the Kingdom (life?)?
Yes ok but we then need to be clear about we mean by Kingdom.
The kingdom of God is where His presence is experienced. For now it is in Zion AND among those who walk in Christ in Zion here on earth. So the kingdom life is the spiritual life that we live in with Christ. This is a walk according to the power of the resurrection. It is a walk above sin.



“We preach the kingdom by testifying of the power to live in reconciliation and fellowship with God Himself. God backs this up by demonstrations of power.”
“demonstrations of power” as in miracles?

Miracles and the kind of love that Jesus brings. The power of life in Christ.
 

Pilgrimer

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afishamongmany said:
Hello oh strange and wonderous peoples.
I would be interested to hear you have to say about the following;
1- What is "The Kingdom of God"?
2- How is it different from "The Church"? If there is a difference then what is the relationship between "The Kingdom and "The Church"?
3 -How do we preach "The gospel of the Kingdom" (as in Mark 1:14)?

In the New Testement there are 158 references to "kingdom". From John the Baptist through The Lord Jesus to Paul in Rome, the Kingdom of God features as part and parcel of the gospel yet in modern christianity it does not seem to.
Please, I know this is Bible study and sound bites don't do it, but can we try to keep "compact". Three or four spaced "compact" posts are more digestable and enjoyable than a long long scroll however learned it may be.
With much anticipation,
><>
My understanding is that the Kingdom of God is Heaven.

Heaven is a spiritual kingdom, or world, or realm, or dimension, or as I like to think of it, a spiritual state of existence. Heaven is not “above” in the sense that it is physically located somewhere above our heads, up in the sky, hidden behind some distant star in some far-flung galaxy, but rather, Heaven is above in the sense that it is of a higher nature than this natural world, a higher order than this cosmos, a higher state of existence than this physical realm we live in.

Now the problem for man is that we are all born spiritually dead. And the best way to understand what that means is to consider physical death. When a physical body is dead, it still exists, but that dead body has no conscious awareness of even its own existence, let alone the world around it. A dead body cannot feel the bed it lies on, or see the doctor pull the sheet over its face, or hear its loved ones weep at its bedside, or in any way sense or perceive the physical world that is all around it. That body is dead to this world, cut off from any conscious awareness of even the existence of this world. In the same way those who are spiritually dead have no conscious awareness of the spiritual kingdom in which God dwells. They can’t see God, or hear God’s voice, or feel or taste or smell or in any way sense or perceive or even comprehend those things which are heavenly and spiritual in nature. They are dead to or completely cut off from any conscious awareness of even the existence of Heaven, even though it is all around us, as close to us as our own breath.

And that is why one absolutely must be born again (John 3:3), born of the spirit, regenerated, quickened, made alive, raised up, these are all terms the Scriptures use for that moment when a person experiences “repentance unto salvation,” which means that moment when our old hard, stony hearts are turned and broken up, just as a turn plow turns and breaks up the ground to prepare it to receive seed, so too our hard heart must be turned and broken to prepare it to receive the seed of spiritual life, the Word of God, Jesus. And when His spirit comes into our hearts that Life-Giving Spirit “quickens” our old dead spirit and raises us up to life, spiritual life, heavenly life, everlasting life. And we become joined with that corporate body of believers, the Church, who are not God’s Kingdom, but are children of God’s kingdom, subjects of that Heavenly country, citizens of the New Jerusalem.

And even while we dwell in these bodies of clay, through the body and blood of Jesus we have once-for-all-forever been given the great and glorious gift of having opened up a Way for us even now, in these weak, fleshly bodies, to simply bow our hearts and turn our thoughts heavenward and in the spirit step into the throne room of Heaven and stand in the very presence of God, not just to worship and obey Him as our God, but to know and to love Him as our Father.

Until I tasted the goodness of God, I didn’t know what Heaven was.

In Christ,
Pilgrimer
 

Webers_Home

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I spent about six years of my youth attending Saturday morning catechism classes and never one
time did any of the nuns mention a so-called kingdom of God, and neither did the priests
conducting the masses I sat through Sunday after Sunday; so when a Baptist asked me later in
life if I was prepared for Jesus' return; I had not a clue what he was talking about; so I asked
him: Why would he come back? And he said: To rule the world. Well; let me tell you; that was
both a shock and a scare.


Buen Camino
/
 

aspen

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I attend daily mass and I hear about the kingdom of God frequently. In fact, every topic concerning sanctification is always traced back to the Kingdom of God in our hearts - it is all part of our daily walk with Christ.
 

Eric E Stahl

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Matthew 6:9-10
9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
10 Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.

God's kingdom is in heaven now but the Kingdoms of this world will become his also in the middle of the tribulation after the two witnesses have finished their testimony for 1260 days.

God will have Michael and the good angels cast satan and the bad angels to the earth for a time and times and half a time or 3.5 years of the great tribulation.

Revelation 11:15, 12:7-14
 

Dodo_David

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Webers_Home said:
.
I spent about six years of my youth attending Saturday morning catechism classes and never one
time did any of the nuns mention a so-called kingdom of God, and neither did the priests
conducting the masses I sat through Sunday after Sunday; so when a Baptist asked me later in
life if I was prepared for Jesus' return; I had not a clue what he was talking about; so I asked
him: Why would he come back? And he said: To rule the world. Well; let me tell you; that was
both a shock and a scare.


Buen Camino
/
Those nuns and priests never introduced you to the LORD's prayer in Matthew 6:9-13?
What else in the New Testament did they not tell you about?
 

Arnie Manitoba

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The Jews were expecting a Messiah to come and usher in the Kingdom

But Jesus did not usher in the Kingdom (yet) ..... he will later .

You need to go back to the OT and find all the attributes of the future kingdom ..... lion will sleep with the lamb etc .... swords turned into plowshears etc ....
 

Pilgrimer

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Arnie Manitoba said:
The Jews were expecting a Messiah to come and usher in the Kingdom

The error of Rabbinic Judaism isn't in the timing of the coming of the Kingdom of God, but in it's nature. They were expecting a literal, earthly kingdom but the Kingdom Jesus died to open the way into is a heavenly, spiritual kingdom.

Arnie Manitoba said:
You need to go back to the OT and find all the attributes of the future kingdom ..... lion will sleep with the lamb etc .... swords turned into plowshears etc ....

That way leads to error. What we need to do is go to the Gospel and find all the attributes of the Kingdom Jesus preached and look at Old Testament prophecy in the light of it. The New Testament is the best interpretation of the Old.

In Christ,
Pilgrimer
 

Webers_Home

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Dodo_David, on 21 Jul 2013 - 9:45 PM, said: Those nuns and priests never introduced you
to the LORD's prayer in Matthew 6:9-13?


When I was a youth in catechism; rote prayers like the one you mentioned were never used as
foundations for instruction; nor as topics of discussion. They were just lines of verse for me and
the other kids to memorize and recite by heart over and over again; like a mantra: that's all.


Buen Camino
/
 

Guestman

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afishamongmany said:
Hello oh strange and wonderous peoples.
I would be interested to hear you have to say about the following;
1- What is "The Kingdom of God"?

><>
What is "The Kingdom of God" ? The "kingdom of God" is a heavenly government (Isa 9:6) that was created by Jehovah God for restoring what was lost in the Garden of Eden, everlasting life for "meek" ones on a paradise earth. Upon the initial rebellion in the Garden of Eden (Gen 3:1-6), God then and there made arrangements to undo the damage done by "the serpent", later called Satan (meaning "resistor") the Devil (meaning "slanderer").


At Genesis 3:15, two organizations suddenly emerged (when before the rebellion, only Jehovah's organization existed, perfect peace existed throughout the universe). God says to the "serpent", that "I shall put enmity (hatred) between you and the woman (God's heavenly body of loyal angels) and between your seed (all those who submit to Satan knowingly or unknowingly, becoming his "offspring") and her seed (the primary "seed" later proved to be Jesus Christ, Gal 3:16, with more "sons" coming later). He (Jesus Christ as king of God's kingdom) will bruise you in the head (Rev 20:10) and you will bruise him in the heel." (Isa 53:12; Acts 2:22, 23)


Now there existed two diametrically opposed organizations that would hate each other. In order to restore peace to the universe, a heavenly government was formed, called a "stone" at Daniel 2, whereby it says "that out of a mountain (Jehovah's universal sovereignty) a stone was cut not by hands" that crushed all the political governments portrayed by the "immense image".(Dan 2:44, 45) Thus God's kingdom is not political, but is cut from the "mountain" or God's sovereignty.


But besides Jesus, there are others that make up God's kingdom. Over at Daniel 7, it says that "the holy ones of the Supreme One will receive the kingdom, and they will take possession of the kingdom for time indefinite."(Dan 7:18) Who are these "holy ones" ?


These are the ones selected by Jehovah from among imperfect mankind (Matt 20:23; 2 Thess 2:13) that complete the designated number of 144,000 (Rev 7:4; 14:1), who are "bought persons for God out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation, and you (Jesus Christ) made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God, and they are to rule as kings over the earth."(Rev 5:10)


The apostle John wrote that "the Son of God was made manifest, namely, to break up the works of the Devil."(1 John 3:8) What does this mean ? That by Jesus coming to the earth as a perfect flesh and blood man, he corresponded to Adam (not to God) before his defection by becoming a "corresponding ransom (Greek antilytron, meaning "in correspondence or in place of ransom") for all".(1 Tim 2:6) Thus, he could fulfill God's "will...that all sorts of men should be saved and come to an accurate knowledge of truth"(1 Tim 2:4) by being equal to Adam in all respects before he rebelled, a perfect man.


By offering up his perfect life blood, he established "a covenant for a kingdom".(Luke 22:29) Hence, the door was now opened to create "the kingdom of God". Jesus, along with 144,000 (who "belong to Christ", 2 Cor 1:21, 22) are anointed (or "sealed") with holy spirit. Over the course of 2,000 years, ones have been chosen as "kings and priests" (Rev 1:6, KJV) "until the full number of people of the nations has come in."(Rom 11:25)


After the "kingdom" has accomplished transforming the earth into a paradise (to which the evildoer will be resurrected, Luke 23:43), as God originally purposed when placed Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden (Isa 55:10, 11), "next, the end, when he (Jesus ) hands over the kingdom to his God and Father, when he has brought to nothing all government and all authority and power (in opposition to Jehovah). For he must rule as king until God has put all enemies under his feet. As the last enemy (Adamic) death is to be brought to nothing."(1 Cor 15:24-26)
 

Pilgrimer

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Guestman said:
What is "The Kingdom of God" ? The "kingdom of God" is a heavenly government (Isa 9:6) t
You are defining "the kingdom of God" as the rule or dominion of God which was created for Jesus after he defeated sin and death and sat down on the right hand of God. That is the Hebrew word "misrah" which is translated "government" (Isa 9:6) and the Greek word "hegeomoi" which is translated "governor" in Matthew 2:6.

But there is also "the kingdom of God" meaning the territory or realm or country that is the abode of God which is a heavenly or spiritual kingdom. You are failing to understand many things because you fail to see the distinction between the kingdom of God (the rule) and the kingdom of God (the realm). To clarify his meaning Paul calls it a "country" (patris) in Hebrews 11:16. Elsewhere the word used is "basilea" which can mean either the rule of or the realm ruled over. The context determines which. For example, it is self-evident that the kingdom Jesus spoke of in Matthew 8:11 is that heavenly country Paul explained.

But the rule that Jesus was given was not "created." Jesus' dominion is the Father's rule that the Father has given over into Jesus' hands to administer. That's why Jesus is not seated on a throne of his own, but is in fact seated at the right hand of God in the Father's throne, ruling and reigning until he has subdued all his enemies, the last enemy being death, at which time Jesus will deliver the kingdom back up the Father so that God may be all and in all (1 Corinthians 15:28).

Guestman said:
These are the ones selected by Jehovah from among imperfect mankind (Matt 20:23; 2 Thess 2:13) that complete the designated number of 144,000 (Rev 7:4; 14:1), who are "bought p
Is that taken directly from your Bible? Because all of my translations say something drastically different. It states that the 144,000 are Jews, 12,000 from each of the 12 tribes. The “bought persons for God out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation” are “a great multitude, which no man could number.”

And further, Jesus didn’t limit the number of those who would sit in his throne and rule with him to 144,000 Jews, he said “Behold, I stand at the door and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me. To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.” Revelation 3:20-21

The Watchtower doctrines have many problems and this is only a couple of them.

In Christ,
Pilgrimer
 

Guestman

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Pilgrimer said:
You are defining "the kingdom of God" as the rule or dominion of God which was created for Jesus after he defeated sin and death and sat down on the right hand of God. That is the Hebrew word "misrah" which is translated "government" (Isa 9:6) and the Greek word "hegeomoi" which is translated "governor" in Matthew 2:6.

But there is also "the kingdom of God" meaning the territory or realm or country that is the abode of God which is a heavenly or spiritual kingdom. You are failing to understand many things because you fail to see the distinction between the kingdom of God (the rule) and the kingdom of God (the realm). To clarify his meaning Paul calls it a "country" (patris) in Hebrews 11:16. Elsewhere the word used is "basilea" which can mean either the rule of or the realm ruled over. The context determines which. For example, it is self-evident that the kingdom Jesus spoke of in Matthew 8:11 is that heavenly country Paul explained.

But the rule that Jesus was given was not "created." Jesus' dominion is the Father's rule that the Father has given over into Jesus' hands to administer. That's why Jesus is not seated on a throne of his own, but is in fact seated at the right hand of God in the Father's throne, ruling and reigning until he has subdued all his enemies, the last enemy being death, at which time Jesus will deliver the kingdom back up the Father so that God may be all and in all (1 Corinthians 15:28).


Is that taken directly from your Bible? Because all of my translations say something drastically different. It states that the 144,000 are Jews, 12,000 from each of the 12 tribes. The “bought persons for God out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation” are “a great multitude, which no man could number.”

And further, Jesus didn’t limit the number of those who would sit in his throne and rule with him to 144,000 Jews, he said “Behold, I stand at the door and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me. To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.” Revelation 3:20-21

The Watchtower doctrines have many problems and this is only a couple of them.

In Christ,
Pilgrimer
That God's kingdom is a heavenly government (and not just the "abode of God") can be seen that Jesus called it "the kingdom of the heavens" at Matthew 4:17; 5:3, 10, 19, 20; 7:21; 8:11; 10:7; 11:11, 12; 13:11, 24, 31, 33. And that it is a literal working government that can successfully remove all political governments from the earth is seen at Daniel 2:44, for it involves more than just its location, but rather a purpose.


It has unrivaled power and was created long before Jesus Jesus defeats sin and death (having to in order to defeat sin and death and all political governments), for that is yet future, and we all still grow old and die.

Adamic death, as "the last enemy"(1 Cor 15:26), is defeated only after obedient mankind is brought to perfection (like Adam before his rebellion, after the 144,000 joint heirs of Christ [Rom 8:17] apply Jesus shed blood in their behalf as "priests"[Rev 1:6]) at the end of Jesus "thousand year" reign, for Revelation 20:14 says that "(Adamic) death and Hades (mankind's common grave) were hurled into the lake of fire (eternal destruction). This means the second death (from which there is no resurrection, for Adamic death is the 1st death)".


Here at Daniel 2:44, it says that Jehovah God "will set up a kingdom (or bring into existence) that will never be brought to ruin......It will crush (Aramaic dqaq, meaning "to crumble or crush") and put and end to all these kingdoms (all the political governments now existing), and it itself will stand to times indefinite."


And at Daniel 2:45, it further says that "forasmuch as you beheld out of the mountain a stone was cut not with hands, and that it crushed the iron, the copper, the molded clay, the silver and the gold", all political governments pictured by the various metals of the "image" (that started with ancient Babylon ["head of gold"] down to the "molded clay" [and iron] or Anglo-American dual world power).


This "stone" did not exist before it was "cut not with hands" by God, who created it for a specific purpose, to restore peace on the earth that was lost when Adam rebelled in the Garden of Eden. This peace involves the removal of sin and death and the transforming the earth into a paradise, that fell through when Adam accepted Satan's rulership.(Gen 3:1-6)


In removing sin and the penalty of death that we each received from our forefather Adam, Isaiah 25 says: "And in this mountain (the same "mountain" as at Daniel 2:45, Jehovah's universal sovereignty) he (Jehovah God) will certainly swallow up the face of the envelopment (sin) that is enveloping over all the peoples, and the woven work (sin) that is interwoven upon all the nations. He will actually swallow up (Adamic) death forever [caused by sin or ' missing the mark ' of perfect obedience, Hebrew chat·ta’th], and the Sovereign Lord Jehovah will certainly wipe the tears from all faces."(Isa 25:7, 8) Sin is likened to clothing that envelops us; that is interwoven into our very being.(that is why we age and die)


Jesus established what the "kingdom" will do, focusing on its role in removing sin and death and transforming the earth into the paradise that is God's purpose for it, by healing people and resurrecting the dead.(Matt 9:35; Luke 7:14,15) He also gave details of who are the ones selected to make up that "kingdom". The nation of Israel, though initially chosen to God's "special property" and make up "a kingdom of priests and a holy nation", proved disloyal.(Ex 19:5, 6)


Jesus told the Jewish religious leaders: "Did you never read in the Scriptures (at Ps 118:22, 23), ' The stone (Jesus as the "tried stone"[Isa 28:16] of the "kingdom") that the builders rejected is the one that has become the chief cornerstone (of the "kingdom"). From Jehovah this has come to be, and it is marvelous in our eyes' ? This is why I say to you, The kingdom of God will be taken from you (the nation of fleshly Israel and not noted as a place but a people) and be given to a nation producing its fruits."(Matt 21:42, 43)


The Jews as a nation failed to meet up with Jehovah's requirements, so others (some Jews but mostly from among the nations or Gentiles, see Rom 11:17) were chosen in place of them to form a new "nation" that would produce the ' fruits of the kingdom'.


Thus the 144,000 chosen ones are not all fleshly Jews (as seen from Jesus words at Matthew 21:42, 43), but mostly are made up of Gentiles is seen at Revelation 14:3, whereby it says that "the hundred and forty-four thousand who have been bought from the earth".


At Revelation 5:9, 10, it says that the "kingdom" is made up of "bought persons for God out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation (not just Jews), and you (Jesus Christ) made them to be a kingdom and priests (a people that is a "special property", Ex 19:5) to our God, and they (the "kingdom") are to rule over the earth.”


These are spiritual Jews, for most are from the “nations” and is called by the apostle Paul “the Israel of God” at Galatians 6:16. Jesus affirmed that the Jews as a nation were rejected, telling them three days before his death: “Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the killer of the prophets and stoner of those sent forth to her - how often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks together under her wings ! But you people did not want it. Look ! Your house is abandoned to you. For I say to you, You will by no means see me from henceforth until you say (quoting from Ps 118:26), ‘ Blessed is he that comes in Jehovah’s name.! “(Matt 23:37-39) The nation of fleshly Israel has not and will never accept Jesus as Jehovah’s representative, as “his Christ”.(Rev 11:15)


The apostle Paul wrote to the Romans concerning the nation of fleshly Israel: “For I bear them witness that they have a zeal for God; but not according to accurate knowledge; for, because of not knowing the righteousness of God but seeking to establish their own, they did not subject themselves to the righteousness of God.”(Rom 10:2, 3)


Thus, as Jesus said, the fleshly Jews are no longer God’s “special property”, his people, but they were replaced by another “nation” composed of those who would “produce the fruits of the kingdom”, who are “no part of the world.”(John 15:19)
 

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You included a lot of issues in your post so to keep my response from being too burdensome I've broken it up into the three main subjects you have broached. I hope that is acceptable. I did give more time to the subject of this thread, which is:

On The Kingdom of God

Guestman said:
That God's kingdom is a heavenly government (and not just the "abode of God") can be seen that Jesus called it "the kingdom of the heavens" at Matthew 4:17; 5:3, 10, 19, 20; 7:21; 8:11; 10:7; 11:11, 12; 13:11, 24, 31, 33. And that it is a literal working government that can successfully remove all political governments from the earth is seen at Daniel 2:44, for it involves more than just its location, but rather a purpose.
It is not me who is limiting the meaning of the kingdom of God, I stated plainly that it means both the rule and the abode of God. It is your view that relies solely on one meaning, completely omitting the abode of God in any references to His kingdom interpreting every instance as the government of God, which I believe is causing you not a few difficulties.

Guestman said:
It has unrivaled power and was created long before Jesus Jesus defeats sin and death (having to in order to defeat sin and death and all political governments), for that is yet future, and we all still grow old and die.
Neither the rule of God nor the abode of God are created. Both have always existed and will always exist. It is this world and everything in it that are created, that had a beginning, and will have an end. It is the new heavens and new earth that are yet to come that will remain forever … what Christians call “the eternal state,” and it is the eternal state that is yet future. What had a beginning was the rule of the Father being given over into the hands of the Son. That had a beginning, when Jesus was seated in the throne of God, every power and principality, both in heaven and in earth, being made subject to him. But that was not the beginning of God’s government, it was the establishing of the government on Jesus’ shoulders.

Guestman said:
Adamic death, as "the last enemy"(1 Cor 15:26), is defeated only after obedient mankind is brought to perfection (like Adam before his rebellion, after the 144,000 joint heirs of Christ [Rom 8:17] apply Jesus shed blood in their behalf as "priests"[Rev 1:6]) at the end of Jesus "thousand year" reign, for Revelation 20:14 says that "(Adamic) death and Hades (mankind's common grave) were hurled into the lake of fire (eternal destruction). This means the second death (from which there is no resurrection, for Adamic death is the 1st death)".
Disobedient mankind will never be perfected in this old fallen, sinful world. It will not be until this present heavens and earth pass away and death and hell are destroyed in the lake of fire that the redeemed will inherit a new heaven and earth where there will be no more sin, no more death, no more suffering, no more pain, no more weeping, for these things which are the fruit of the curse and which are now will all pass away when God makes everything new. (Revelation 20:13-21:5)

Guestman said:
Here at Daniel 2:44, it says that Jehovah God "will set up a kingdom (or bring into existence) that will never be brought to ruin......It will crush (Aramaic dqaq, meaning "to crumble or crush") and put and end to all these kingdoms (all the political governments now existing), and it itself will stand to times indefinite."
The word used in Daniel 2:44 does not mean “to bring into existence.” The word is “quwm” which means to set up in the sense of lifting up or to rise up or to come forth. It’s a verb in the Aphel imperfect tense. The primary root word “quwm” from which it comes means to make clearer, to confirm, continue, decree, lift up, pitch, raise, rear up, rouse up, stir up, strengthen, succeed, (make) sure, up (hold) …

There is no shade of meaning of this word that implies the “creation” or “bringing into existence” of this kingdom, which word would be either “bara,” a root word which means to bring into existence (Genesis 1:1 for example) or else “asah” which means to make, produce, or fashion (Genesis 1:26 for example).

The Kingdom which God “set up” at the time of Christ’s triumph was God’s pre-existing eternal kingdom established under the authority of Christ and His church.

Guestman said:
And at Daniel 2:45, it further says that "forasmuch as you beheld out of the mountain a stone was cut not with hands, and that it crushed the iron, the copper, the molded clay, the silver and the gold", all political governments pictured by the various metals of the "image" (that started with ancient Babylon ["head of gold"] down to the "molded clay" [and iron] or Anglo-American dual world power).
The molded clay and iron refers to the political mixing of Israel and Rome which kingdom was in power at the time of the coming of Jesus and his conquest over the world (John 16:33). That Jesus has already overcome the world is what makes the Gospel such “good news.”

Guestman said:
This "stone" did not exist before it was "cut not with hands" by God, who created it for a specific purpose, to restore peace on the earth that was lost when Adam rebelled in the Garden of Eden. This peace involves the removal of sin and death and the transforming the earth into a paradise, that fell through when Adam accepted Satan's rulership.(Gen 3:1-6)
Again, there is nothing to imply that the stone (which is Christ) was created and did not exist before. Indeed, he had to have existed as part of the mountain in order to be cut out of the mountain.

But as to the restoration of peace, God has already restored peace to the world, which is what Jesus came to bring ("Behold, I bring you tidings of great joy which shall be to all people … Glory to God in the highest, and on earth, peace, good will toward men” (Luke 2:14) … “Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you” (John 14:27) … “for the kingdom of God is … righteousness and peace and joy in the holy ghost (Romans 14:17), see also Philippians 4:7, Colossians 3:15, Acts 10:36, etc.

That the majority of men choose to remain strangers and foreigners to the peace of God and His Kingdom does not mean it is not present and available to them, rather, it means they choose to remain dead to it, cut off from it, alienated from it by their sin which they refuse to relinquish.

In Christ,
Pilgrimer
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Paradise in the New Heaven and New Earth

Guestman said:
In removing sin and the penalty of death that we each received from our forefather Adam, Isaiah 25 says: "And in this mountain (the same "mountain" as at Daniel 2:45, Jehovah's universal sovereignty) he (Jehovah God) will certainly swallow up the face of the envelopment (sin) that is enveloping over all the peoples, and the woven work (sin) that is interwoven upon all the nations. He will actually swallow up (Adamic) death forever [caused by sin or ' missing the mark ' of perfect obedience, Hebrew chat•ta’th], and the Sovereign Lord Jehovah will certainly wipe the tears from all faces."(Isa 25:7, 8) Sin is likened to clothing that envelops us; that is interwoven into our very being.(that is why we age and die)
But you are mistaken in assuming that these conditions belong to a 1000-year period which preceeds the new heavens and earth. These are conditions that will only come to pass after this present heavens and earth pass away and the new heavens and earth come to pass: “And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away … And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away. And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new.” Revelation 21:1, 4-5)

Guestman said:
Jesus established what the "kingdom" will do, focusing on its role in removing sin and death and transforming the earth into the paradise that is God's purpose for it, by healing people and resurrecting the dead.(Matt 9:35; Luke 7:14,15)
The “kingdom” will not do these things, it is the “King,” Jesus, who does them. Even now he is at work in the hearts of all those who belong to Him, removing our sins and washing us and making us clean. (Revelation 1:5) The lost will never be cleansed of their sin but will die in them.

But the transformation of the earth into an Edenic paradise will not occur until the end of the world, when this old sinful, fallen world passes away, and there is a new heaven and earth (Revelation 21:1).

The great resurrection occurs immediately before that, then death is destroyed in the lake of fire. (Revelation 20:14)

In Christ,
Pilgrimer
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The Salvation of the Jews

Guestman said:
He also gave details of who are the ones selected to make up that "kingdom". The nation of Israel, though initially chosen to God's "special property" and make up "a kingdom of priests and a holy nation", proved disloyal.(Ex 19:5, 6)

Jesus told the Jewish religious leaders: "Did you never read in the Scriptures (at Ps 118:22, 23), ' The stone (Jesus as the "tried stone"[Isa 28:16] of the "kingdom") that the builders rejected is the one that has become the chief cornerstone (of the "kingdom"). From Jehovah this has come to be, and it is marvelous in our eyes' ? This is why I say to you, The kingdom of God will be taken from you (the nation of fleshly Israel and not noted as a place but a people) and be given to a nation producing its fruits."(Matt 21:42, 43)

The Jews as a nation failed to meet up with Jehovah's requirements, so others (some Jews but mostly from among the nations or Gentiles, see Rom 11:17) were chosen in place of them to form a new "nation" that would produce the ' fruits of the kingdom'.

Thus the 144,000 chosen ones are not all fleshly Jews (as seen from Jesus words at Matthew 21:42, 43), but mostly are made up of Gentiles is seen at Revelation 14:3, whereby it says that "the hundred and forty-four thousand who have been bought from the earth".
The kingdom wasn’t taken from the Jews, it was taken from the Jewish religious leaders and given to fishermen and tax collectors, the despised and persecuted. Indeed, the church is founded upon the faithful Jews of both the Old Testament and the New Testament dispensations: “Now therefore ye (Gentiles) are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints (faithful Jews), and of the household of God; And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief cornerstone.” (Ephesians 2:19-20)

(As a sidenote, Jesus is not the cornerstone of the kingdom (which is the eternal rule and/or abode of God) but rather Jesus is the cornerstone of the church.)

Not only are the twelve foundation walls of the New Jerusalem the 12 Apostles (all Jews), but the 12 gates into the city are the 12 tribes of the children of Israel. So indeed, not only is faithful Israel a part of the church, it is the foundation upon which the Gentiles are built with Jesus himself being the chief cornerstone. That there are 144,000 is not a literal number but represents the fullness of the number of all the tribes of Israel.

Guestman said:
At Revelation 5:9, 10, it says that the "kingdom" is made up of "bought persons for God out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation (not just Jews), and you (Jesus Christ) made them to be a kingdom and priests (a people that is a "special property", Ex 19:5) to our God, and they (the "kingdom") are to rule over the earth.”

Let me clarify. You said the 144,000 are the Gentiles believers. They are not. The 144,000 are Jewish believers. The Gentile believers are a multitude that cannot be numbered.


These are spiritual Jews, for most are from the “nations” and is called by the apostle Paul “the Israel of God” at Galatians 6:16.
That is not correct. Paul spent three whole chapters in his letter to the Romans explaining that “the Israel of God” is those Jews who are faithful to God. They are a “remnant” of the nation and he compares them to Isaac and Jacob. Whereas the majority of Jews who reject the Messiah are not counted as the Israel of God but are compared to Ishmael (who was cast out even though he was the firstborn son of Abraham and the heir by law) and also compares them to Esau (who sold his birthright for a mess of pottage). The “elder” sons (Old Covenant Jews, sons of Hagar, the bondwoman) were cast out, and the “younger sons" (New Coveanant Jews, sons of Sarah, the freewoman) became the heirs. The Gentiles were adopted and made joint-heirs with the saints. Not ALL the natural branches were cut off, but sadly most were. When Jesus said, “narrow is the way and few there be that find it,” he was speaking of both Jews and Gentiles.

In Christ,
Pilgrimer
 

bytheway

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The Kingdom of God and the Kingdom of Heaven are the same, only two different expressions. Kingdom of God is over all things. Kingdom of Heaven is ministry.Everything comes out of something else. If your looking for the kingdom to magically appear at some point, realize the Kingdom and the King have been all along. The key to enter is repentance,a paradigm shift of thought. Then the Kingdom is within your grasp. Luke 17:21 states the Kingdom is within you.