jaybird
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what was the question?
Jesus was one with the Father. Jesus also said believers were one with Jesus. are believers Jesus?
Is Jesus God?
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Jesus was one with the Father. Jesus also said believers were one with Jesus. are believers Jesus?
101G
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The question was is the Spirit of God and the Spirit of Christ the SAME "PERSON". Yes or No.
take your time... (smile).
jaybird
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His spirit IMO would be one with the Father. does that make the the Son the Father? we can all unite with the Father just as Jesus did. Jesus IMO would not ask believers to follow His example if it was not possible to achieve just what He did.
so if the spirit of Jesus is the spirit of the Most High, then the spirit of believers are also the Most High.
101G
Well-Known Member
are you GOD?, no, so that answer is not the truth
. listen to "WITH". John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." so you ERROR. unite is not the same, so again another ERROR. J that's strike 2 in just this one post and you still haven't address my question. now don't let it be a third. I had to put this one by itself. "so if the spirit of Jesus is the spirit of the Most High, then the spirit of believers are also the Most High." you're not the Holy Spirit, he dwells in you, ....... maybe.. (smile). this is the classic example of "I DON"T KNOW THE ANSWER TO YOUR QUESTION. all that stalling, and still come up with the wrong answer.
Oh well, but I'm here to help you out. listen, Isaiah 9:6 "For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace".
J this is a gimme question. this child, this Son, is he the The everlasting Father?. now you have two strike don't let it be another and strike out. now think, is this "SON" JESUS in Isaiah here, the The everlasting Father yes or No.
I'll definitly be waiting for this answer..... (smile).
101G
Well-Known Member
don't worry J. I haven't forgotten you either. since you say we all are one. in Revelation chapter 4 who sit on the throne, "ALL OF US" sine you said all are one... (smile). but the scripture states "ONE" sits on the throne. that kinda put a crimp in your thinking. oh well let me stop. but I do have a few questions for you.
#1. also in Rev chapter 5. who sits on the throne and who is standing
#2. in chapter 4 and 5 is this your Father who sets on the throne? yes or no.
then we will know if there is one person who is God or 3 person.... (smile) .. until then
#1. also in Rev chapter 5. who sits on the throne and who is standing
#2. in chapter 4 and 5 is this your Father who sets on the throne? yes or no.
then we will know if there is one person who is God or 3 person.... (smile) .. until then
jaybird
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where was strike one? ohh thats right the revelation that Jesus gave Himself. . .okare you GOD?, no, so that answer is not the truth
your right, i dont know the full nature of the Most High and His Son, to make such claims IMO would be very bold and arrogant. i only know what scripture says and i dont read them through man made theology filters.
what was the 2nd strike? Jesus one with the Father according to you making Jesus the Father, Jesus one with believers making believers not Jesus??? makes no sense to me but ok. and lets not forget that this "oneness" believers have with Jesus, is, according to Jesus, the same oneness Jesus has with the Father, yet when you apply the theology "the same" gets spun into "NOT" the same. truly bind boggling.
now lets look at the Is passage. so now Jesus is the Father even though we both know the trinity doctrine clearly says the Father is not the Son, do we need to get that little diagram? mighty and almighty are two different thngs. only the Father is almighty. the passage is speaking of the ruler appointed by the Most High who will have the authority of the Most High, "to rebel against the Lords anointed is to rebel against the Lord Himself" remember that? Jesus represents the Father, He was sent in the Name of the Father.
jaybird
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it wasnt me that said it, it was Jesus.
20“I do not ask for these only, but also for those who will believe in me through their word, 21that they may all be one, just as you, Father, are in me, and I in you, that they also may be in us, so that the world may believe that you have sent me.
you going to give Jesus your childish smart mouth "(SMILE)"?
Dcopymope
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It is stated multiple times that Jesus will be sitting at the right hand of the Father, as if he will have his own throne. Do you believe these verses are referring to two different entities, describing exactly that? Its not hard for me to see, but others who hate the trinity doctrine like to dance around it.
jaybird
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i dont hate the trinity, i do think its blocks the truth as there is much more understanding beyond what the doctrine teaches yet one will never look there when they are told there is nothing more to learn. make sense?
if Jesus is at the right hand then whos right hand is that? would it not be the Father? if being at the right hand makes Jesus and the Father the same, what of the disciples asking Jesus about sitting at the right and left hand of the Son, they didnt believe that made them the Christ.
Dcopymope
Well-Known Member
Well, this is the issue, even if one wishes to avoid the word "trinity" because its been presented as a dirty word, it still doesn't discount scripture plainly stating God as three, Father, Son and Holy Ghost. Jesus is either sitting next to the Father or he isn't. Its not hard to see that even in Revelation it is speaking of two different entities. But those who want to avoid the issue will usually allegorize it, to make it seem like its in fact not saying exactly what it plainly states. It must be rocket science you see.
Richard_oti
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Tehillim 110:1 ... ne'um YHVH la'doniy ... utters YHVH to my Lord ...
Psa 110:1 YHVH saith unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, Until I make thine enemies thy footstool.
Act 2:34 For David ascended not into the heavens: but he saith himself, The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand
Act 7:55 But he, being full of the Holy Spirit, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God
Heb 12:2 looking unto Jesus the author and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising shame, and hath sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.
So the answer is: YHVH who sits upon the throne.
1Co 15:24 Then cometh the end, when he shall deliver up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have abolished all rule and all authority and power. 25 For he must reign, till he hath put all his enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy that shall be abolished is death. 27 For, He put all things in subjection under his feet. But when he saith, All things are put in subjection, it is evident that he is excepted who did subject all things unto him. 28 And when all things have been subjected unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subjected to him that did subject all things unto him, that God may be all in all.
jaybird
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Jesus is sitting next to the Father. one is the Father, one is the Son. i dont get what this has to do with the trinity?
Dcopymope
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Well, that there are three that bear record in heaven as God, since you don't like the word trinity.
101G
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U said, "now lets look at the Is passage. so now Jesus is the Father even though we both know the trinity doctrine clearly says the Father is not the Son".
is this what the bible say?. now who's talking man made doctrine that is not based on the scriptures.
#2 J you have no clue to what doctrine I believe. I'll give you a heads up. I'm "Diversified Oneness". Oh no, not "oneness" as the UPC teaches but as God teaches. that's why you get caught in the scriptures. "diversified oneness" reveals the Godhead plainly. see, what you don't know you reject. the scriptures are clear, Hosea 4:6 "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children". before you kik aganist the prick, you might want to examine what you're kicking against. Proverbs 18:13 "He that answereth a matter before he heareth it, it is folly and shame unto him". Proverbs 25:2 "It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter".
101G
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see the oneness our Lord is speaking is of "may all be one, just as you, Father, are in me, and I in you". see J "in". question are you "IN" Christ. is that literal, no. or do you have the MIND of Christ? meaning the SAME mind, or acting like him. so as if I see you I see God. but is not God a Spirit, so how do I see God, is that literal?, no, but I see god by the works.
my, my, my, my. oh well everyone must learn. see J, instead of hearing what I was saying you jump the gun, listen again, Proverbs 18:13 "He that answereth a matter before he heareth it, it is folly and shame unto him". it's the same thing as, 2 Timothy 2:15 "Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth". see, the shame is you have no understanding of "diversified Oneness". you have not studied it, nor do you understand it. Proverbs 4:7 "Wisdom is the principal thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding".
I have studied the trinity doctrine, (that's why I reveal the error in PERSON of that doctrine). I have studied Unitarianism, and have talked with their expert in their beliefs, and found out their weakness/errors. the same as with the JW, the Mormons, and the Preterist with all their belifs. and none of them adhere to the Holy Scriptures. that's why I'm adamant in my beliefs as in Proverbs 18:13. one need to know what the other is talking about, before they can form a defense, else one will be defeated, this is the "shame" of the workman.
101G
Well-Known Member
first I thank my God for this opportunity, second GINOLJC to all. to Richard, before I reply to this post let me get something clear. the one sitting on the throne you said YHVH, is that's the one who you calls the Father? yes or no, I just want to be clear. please response.
101G
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my God, my God. Jesus is sitting next to the Father? oh well, all must know. please get the scriptures right. it's power, listen, Matthew 26:64 "Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven".
this sitting is not physical!. listen, Revelation 4:2 "And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne". ONE sat on the throne. (for your sake of understanding), there's no one NEXT to him. and as for one who said that we all are one as God, let me point something out to you, listen, Revelation 3:21 "To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne". did anyone get it? if not here it is, listen, "To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne" notice the IN my throne, and not "ON" my throne.....
. let's continue, "even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne". #1. the Lord Jesus is WITH, meaning he is, (remember John 1:1). and he is "IN" his Father's throne. People, people do you know what "IN" throne means? if not, one is in Authority/Power. let's see. Ephesians 2:6 "And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus". first question are you in heaven now? spiritually yes in power, physically no. are you in Christ Jesus?, spiritually yes, physically, no. are we getting it now?.
101G
Well-Known Member
THE Corinthians 15:24 question, "The Son Subject to the Father?" well let's see.
revelation time "diversified oneness" answers the question.
SUBJECT: G5293 ὑποτάσσω hupotasso (hoop-ot-as'-so) v. According to Noah Webster's 1828 Dictionary of American English. the Greek word here, G5293 ὑποτάσσω hupotasso, this word is used as a verb, and not a noun. (that will alert one quickly). as a verb one can quickly see, or understand what subject means here in context. a. put within, b. will. lets look at both and understand this revelation. according to the second definition of subject in the Noah Webster's 1828 Dictionary as a verb, it means definition #2. To put under or within the power of. (there is our revelation, “within” within the power of). lets back this up, and see how we got this revelation with our second, and complete understanding.
G5293 ὑποτάσσω hupotasso (hoop-ot-as'-so) as a verb which means 1. to subordinate
2. (reflexively) to obey
[from G5259 and G5021]
KJV: be under obedience (obedient), put under, subdue unto, (be, make) subject (to, unto), be (put) in subjection (to, under), submit self unto.
please notice, the KJV can translate subject, G5293 ὑποτάσσω hupotasso, as be under obedience, which bring us to our second understanding. lets see this in scripture, Matthew 26:42 " He went away again the second time, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if this cup may not pass away from me, except I drink it, thy will be done”. now here's the revelation. the Lord Jesus is God “OWN” arm. scripture, Isaiah 63:5 " And I looked, and there was none to help; and I wondered that there was none to uphold: therefore mine own arm brought salvation unto me; and my fury, it upheld me”. so being his “OWN” arm it is through, or “within” the agency of the Lord Jesus Christ that his, (GOD), OWN “will” is done, hence the obedience. supportive scripture, Hebrews 10:7 "Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God". this is proven out in the definition of G5293 ὑποτάσσω hupotasso itself. the definition also states from G5259 and G5021, lets see what G5259 ὑπό hupo (hoop-oh') states,
1. under
2. (with the genitive case) of place (beneath), or with verbs (the agency or means, through)
3. (with the accusative case) of place (whither (underneath) or where (below) or time (when (at)) In the comparative, it retains the same general applications, especially of inferior position or condition, and specially, covertly or moderately.
[a primary preposition]
KJV: among, by, from, in, of, under, with
examine definition #2 above carefully, it said, when used "WITH" verbs. there is our conformation, the agency or means,“through”. and “through” is synonyms with “WITHIN”. so when G5259 is use in VERB form, meaning when used with a verb as in “BE”, and be is a verb, as used in 1 Cor 15, "be subject", then subject as used here in 1 Corinthians 15:27-28 is understood to be used as the “agency or means, through” or WITHIN the Power of. other words Isaiah 63:5 is totally correct and on point when God said, " And I looked, and there was none to help; and I wondered that there was none to uphold: therefore mine own arm brought salvation unto me; and my fury, it upheld me”. the power is in, or within God “own” arm, which the Lord is, he is “God’s own arm".
that’s all that is needed to get the understanding on "be subject". first, get the Holy Spirit, (the Revelator) and then get an old English dictionary like the Noah Webster's 1828 Dictionary to understand old English, and this mystery will be no more, and to some their ERROR no more. the Holy Spirit will enable us, or give us the ability to root out words and their meaning to give true understanding even in the old English language used at that time when the bible was written.
NOW, the next big question is, "how is this all accomplish, this "within". since I said that the Lord Jesus is the diversity, or the ANOTHER of God himself in flesh. this within must then be ONLY ONE PERSON. because the Kingdom will be taken up, and the Lord Jesus is another of god himself. I made this alert before, the Lord Jesus is the G243 Allos to God meaning a "numerical difference" or another. as said before, a numerical difference is nothing no more than what is called "differentiation". look up the word. let's get the clear understanding of verse 28 "And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself “be” subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all". to "BE" all in all the Lord Jesus must be ONE in Nature with God which he is, but remember he's a "numerical difference" or another, or the differentiation of God himself in flesh also. so how is this "Oneness" by being BE SUBJECT, or "WITHIN", is accomplish, so that God maybe ONE all in all. good question, the answer, is in the word that is the opposite of differentiation, which is assimilation, look it up. here in this be subject it is the POWER WITHIN. hence the "WITHIN" by being "ALL IN ALL". how simple.
scripture, 1 Corinthians 12:4 "Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.1 Corinthians 12:5 "And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.1 Corinthians 12:6 "And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all".
bbyrd009
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yes, as Scripture plainly says:
Romans 8:9 Lexicon: However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him.
click for Lex's interpretation, where They are plainly delineated.
bbyrd009
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that was not doctrine, nor theology though.
no, but it was a great answer for it
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