Co- Redemptrix

bbyrd009 · Jan 18, 2018

BreadOfLife said:
That doesn't mean that He didn't honor His Mother (Exod. 20:12).
do you honesty believe that he disrespected her??

hmm. No, not even after she considered having Him put away, BoL.
but of course hate your family is understood to be speaking relatively, not literally, too

and wadr all we are going to end up doing here--at least with me--is coming to another Scripture that you will not address, and therefore i am just being disobedient now, with you, ok.

Dcopymope · Jan 18, 2018

BreadOfLife said:
Who said that God "needed" a Queen in Heaven??
God doesn't "need" anything or anybody.

God doesn't "need" angels - but he created them anyway.
God doesn't "need" a planet Earth or the universe - but he created them anyway.
God doesn't "need" all of US - but he created us anyway.

Mary is Queen in Heaven because we see her in Rev. 12:1 wearing a crown of 12 stars and giving birth to the King.
Like ALL of the Davidic Kings of Israel starting with Solomon, the Mother of the King was Queen - NOT the wife.

............Revelation 12:1 cannot be referring to Mary if we are to believe your doctrine of Mary being sinless. All sinful women were cursed by God with the birthing of a child in pain, and this is exactly what is being described in Revelation 12.

(Revelation 12:1-2) "And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars: {2} And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered."

(Genesis 3:16) "Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee."

I never believed this woman in Rev 12 to be referring to Mary from the start, and with your belief in her being sinless, as blasphemous as a belief it really is, you have no legitimate reason to believe it is her either. This is all more likely describing end times events concerning Israel, the nation that birthed Jesus Christ. This woman flee's to the wilderness from persecution, and Jesus Christ prophesied similar events to occur.

(Matthew 24:15-21) "When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand {16} Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: {17} Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house: {18} Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes. {19} And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! {20} But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: {21} For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be."

(Revelation 12:5-6) "And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne. {6} And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days."

(Revelation 17:1-3) "And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters: {2} With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication. {3} So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns."............................

(Revelation 17:18) "And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth."

bbyrd009 · Jan 18, 2018

BreadOfLife said:
Only ONE person gave birth to Him.

yes, and she debated having Him committed, and He referred to her as
what has that to do with Me, woman?

also, dwelling on Jesus' birth--the date of which is fiercely occluded--can be reckoned as "the flesh," when it is His resurrection and life now that is what matters

Dcopymope · Jan 18, 2018

bbyrd009 said:
yes, and she debated having Him committed, and He referred to her as
what has that to do with Me, woman?

also, dwelling on Jesus' birth--the date of which is fiercely occluded--can be reckoned as "the flesh," when it is His resurrection and life now that is what matters

I would call the birth of "the flesh" to be a far cry from Catholic doctrine claiming her to be the "mother of God". It almost makes me want to vomit you know.

BreadOfLife · Jan 18, 2018

amadeus said:
My post was to you personally and you answer by lumping together everyone who is not a Catholic as if they were all the same rather than admit that you might even in a measure be wrong. We are ignorant, each one of us of many things, but you would condemn the innocent along with the guilty to be certain that none were left standing, not even those who do not fit into your generalization. How guilty was Jesus when He was crucified? Would you stand with those who condemned Him as well?

I wonder where you received your authority and how well your stewardship, if is yours, when the final accounting is done.

Amadeus - I don't understand why you are being so dishonest.

First of all - YOU made the following statement:
"I and some others here I believe never purposely lie or even misrepresent your church although you are quick to name us liars and/or anti-Catholic."

This is a crock and you know it. I even gave you a laundry list of some of the lies and misrepresentations I am talking about - yet you turn a blind eye and claim "innocence" for yourself and the others.

Talk to me when you are ready to take some responsibility for these lies and misrepresentations.
I don't know why you guys think you can get away with claiming innocence when this is a public forum where everything is recorded . . .

BreadOfLife · Jan 18, 2018

bbyrd009 said:
hmm. No, not even after she considered having Him put away, BoL.
but of course hate your family is understood to be speaking relatively, not literally, too

and wadr all we are going to end up doing here--at least with me--is coming to another Scripture that you will not address, and therefore i am just being disobedient now, with you, ok.

What Scripture have I "not addressed"??
there is NOTHING I haven't addressed that has been asked of me.

BreadOfLife · Jan 18, 2018

bbyrd009 said:
yhmm. No, not even after she considered having Him put away, BoL.

bbyrd009 said:
yes, and she debated having Him committed, and He referred to her as
what has that to do with Me, woman?

Where does Scripture state that Mary tried to have Jesus "committed"??
Can you at least TRY to be honest - even for ONE post??

BreadOfLife · Jan 18, 2018

Dcopymope said:
............Revelation 12:1 cannot be referring to Mary if we are to believe your doctrine of Mary being sinless. All sinful women were cursed by God with the birthing of a child in pain, and this is exactly what is being described in Revelation 12.

They were ALSO cursed with dying.
Ummmm, Jesus died and HE was sinless . . .

Dcopymope said:
I never believed this woman in Rev 12 to be referring to Mary from the start, and with your belief in her being sinless, as blasphemous as a belief it really is, you have no legitimate reason to believe it is her either. This is all more likely describing end times events concerning Israel, the nation that birthed Jesus Christ. This woman flee's to the wilderness from persecution, and Jesus Christ prophesied similar events to occur.

Of course you don't believe. Lack of faith your defining characteristic.
As for the Woman in Rev. 12:1 NOT being Mary - it's time for a Bible lesson, son . . .

Chapter and verse were not added to Scripture until the Middle Ages. EVERY Book was written as one long letter.
Fast forward to Rev. 11:19, where we see the Ark of the Covenant in Heaven. It's NOT the old Ark, which was essentially a box.
Mary is the Ark of the NEW Covenant, and this is spelled out in Scripture:

OT - The Word was written by God on Tablets of Stone (Ex. 25:10) placed inside the Ark (Deut. 10:1)
NT - The Word of God became Flesh (John 1) conceived inside Mary (Luke 2:38) Mary carried the Word of God.

OT - "Who am I that the Ark of my Lord should come to me?" (2 Sam. 6:9)
NT - "Who am I that the mother of my Lord should come to me?" (Luke 1:43)

OT - The When the Ark carrying the Word of God returned “David was leaping and dancing before the Lord” (2 Sam. 6:14)
NT - When Mary came into Elizabeth's presence carrying the word of God, the baby “leaped for joy” in Elizabeth's womb (Luke 2:38)

OT - The Ark carrying the Word of God is brought to the house of Obed-Edom for 3 months, where it was a blessing. (2 Sam. 6:11)
NT - Mary (the new Ark) carrying the Word of God goes to Elizabeth's house for 3 months, where she is a blessing (Luke 1:56)

OT - The Ark is captured (1 Sam 4:11) and brought to a foreign land and later returns (1 Sam 6:13)
NT - Mary (the new Ark) is exiled to a foreign land (Egypt) and later returns (Matt. 2:14)

OT - The On the Day of the Dedication of the Temple which Solomon built, there were 120 priests present (2 Chron. 5:11). The Ark of the covenant was carried into the Temple (2 Chron. 5:7) and fire came down from Heaven to consume the burnt offering (2 Chron. 7:7).
NT - The On the Day of Pentecost, there were 120 disciples of Jesus present in the Upper Room (Acts 1:15). Mar, the Mother of Jesus and the Ark of the NEW Covenant was also present while the Holy Spirit came down as tongues of fire (Acts 2:3).

Try as you might - it is impossible to escape the truth of Scripture . . .

mjrhealth · Jan 18, 2018

BreadOfLife said:
Where does Scripture state that Mary tried to have Jesus "committed"??
Can you at least TRY to be honest - even for ONE post??

Yes bol, look up honesty in the dictionary, you really need to learn about it.

amadeus · Jan 18, 2018

BreadOfLife said:
Amadeus - I don't understand why you are being so dishonest.

First of all - YOU made the following statement:
"I and some others here I believe never purposely lie or even misrepresent your church although you are quick to name us liars and/or anti-Catholic."

This is a crock and you know it. I even gave you a laundry list of some of the lies and misrepresentations I am talking about - yet you turn a blind eye and claim "innocence" for yourself and the others.

Talk to me when you are ready to take some responsibility for these lies and misrepresentations.
I don't know why you guys think you can get away with claiming innocence when this is a public forum where everything is recorded . . .

For a sometimes seemingly intelligent and educated man it seems your skill at reading with understanding falls very short. Are the rest of us speaking always in parables and no one is available to provide you with the interpretation. Perhaps you need the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Dcopymope · Jan 18, 2018

BreadOfLife said:
They were ALSO cursed with dying.
Ummmm, Jesus died and HE was sinless . . .

.......Uh huh, your point?

BreadOfLife said:
Of course you don't believe. Lack of faith your defining characteristic.

.........Yes, my lack of faith in Mary as the "queen of heaven", as the intercessor for my prayers, and as the "mother of all things" most certainly is a defining characteristic of me and most others on this site.....and your point is?

BreadOfLife said:
As for the Woman in Rev. 12:1 NOT being Mary - it's time for a Bible lesson, son . . .

........For one, I'm not your son, for two, the Woman in Revelation is clearly identified as a city, not a person, so I don't need your nonsensical "bible lessons" to tell me what is plainly stated for all to see.

Dcopymope · Jan 18, 2018

mjrhealth said:
Yes bol, look up honesty in the dictionary, you really need to learn about it.

Honesty seems to be a foreign concept to his ilk.

amadeus said:
For a sometimes seemingly intelligent and educated man it seems your skill at reading with understanding is falls very short. Are the rest of speaking always in parables and no one is available to provide you with the interpretation. Perhaps you need the gift of the Holy Ghost.

"Intelligent" and "educated"????..................

.................I have yet to be at all impressed with anyone displaying his brand of "intelligence" and "education" in relation to the faith. That's a joke if I've ever heard one.

michaelvpardo · Jan 18, 2018

Richard_oti said:
For myself, I believe Jesus was / is the first of all creation, the "Light", as he himself said, "I am the light of the world".

1 Cor 15:24 Then cometh the end, when he shall deliver up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have abolished all rule and all authority and power. ... 27 For, He put all things in subjection under his feet. But when he saith, All things are put in subjection, it is evident that he is excepted who did subject all things unto him. 28 And when all things have been subjected unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subjected to him that did subject all things unto him, that God may be all
[WH manuscript]

"No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him. John 1:18
The implication of the verse is that every appearance of God in the Old Testament was an appearance of the "Angel of the Lord" or the preincarnate Son of God (some believe both to be true, but the book of Hebrews makes the point that Jesus is more than an angel). This also means that Yahshuah is Yahavah in the flesh. Hebrews 10:5 seems to confirm this: "Therefore when He came into the world, He said: Sacrifice and offering You did not desire, but a body You have prepared for Me."
We also have the proof text: "For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily" Colossians 2:9
The concept of a trinity is not the idea of 3 Gods, but of 1 God known in 3 persons. I don't believe that we, with finite minds, can ever entirely grasp the infinite "nature" of God, but why should we have a problem with an infinite, eternal God, revealing Himself in a hierarchy through the person of His Son and His Holy Spirit? Who can contain infinity without being infinite?

pia · Jan 19, 2018

amadeus said:
Perhaps you need the gift of the Holy Ghost

That certainly does seem to be the one big difference , the lack of the Love of God in a single solitary post of his....so not heart of flesh but of stone....Not the best 'teacher' at any stretch of the imagination...Like you it really saddens me, both for him and those who are not careful what they 'hear'...

bbyrd009 · Jan 19, 2018

Dcopymope said:
I would call the birth of "the flesh" to be a far cry from Catholic doctrine claiming her to be the "mother of God".

hmm, ya, might seem to be, but i suspect the same spirit, that of shifting the focus to the birth rather than the resurrection

BreadOfLife · Jan 19, 2018

mjrhealth said:
Yes bol, look up honesty in the dictionary, you really need to learn about it.

Dcopymope said:
Honesty seems to be a foreign concept to his ilk.

And as I've challenged YOU and others about 100 times - try to find ONE post where I "lied."
You can't because it doesn't exist . . .

BreadOfLife · Jan 19, 2018

amadeus said:
For a sometimes seemingly intelligent and educated man it seems your skill at reading with understanding is falls very short. Are the rest of speaking always in parables and no one is available to provide you with the interpretation. Perhaps you need the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Sooooo, you're saying that you guys haven't posted the following lies??
- Catholics worship Mary
- Catholics worship statues
- Catholics are forbidden to read the Bible
- Catholics are NOT Christian
- The Catholic Church killed "millions" of people during the Inquisitions
- Pope Pius XII gave his blessing on Hitler's atrocities
- The Catholic Church was started by Constantine
- The Catholic Church is thinking about changing some of their doctrines
- All priests are pedophiles
- The list goes on and on and on . . .

You're a LOT more dishonest than I gave you credit for, Amadeus . . .

BreadOfLife · Jan 19, 2018

Dcopymope said:
.......Uh huh, your point?

The point here, Einstein is that you were attempting to show that Mary was cursed with labor pains because of her sin.
I destroyed that impotent argument by illustrating that pain and death were ALSO penalties for sin - and Jesus suffered BOTH.

BOTH Mary and Jesus were sinless - and they BOTH suffered pain and death.

Dcopymope said:
.........Yes, my lack of faith in Mary as the "queen of heaven", as the intercessor for my prayers, and as the "mother of all things" most certainly is a defining characteristic of me and most others on this site.....and your point is?

No - just a simple distrust of God's Word is your defining characteristic.

Dcopymope said:
........For one, I'm not your son, for two, the Woman in Revelation is clearly identified as a city, not a person, so I don't need your nonsensical "bible lessons" to tell me what is plainly stated for all to see.

WRONG.
Thwe Woman in Rev. 12:1 is described as the Ark of God's Covenant (Jesus) in Heaven (Rev. 11:19).

Show me where the Woman in Rev. 1 is "clearly identified" as a city.
Chapter and verse . . .

BreadOfLife · Jan 19, 2018

Marymog said:
I give up....
If you can't put into context what I was saying by reading the first 10 words I wrote I certainly can't help you.

(Hi Stranger, I think I get what you are saying.)

If you don't understand or get it now....you never will.
Have a blessed day.....Mary
You really should try yoga....or at least a chill pill

And again, Mary - I conceded the fact that it might not have been what you meant to say - but what you DID say was heresy.
Not trying to argue with you.

And, for the record - there is nothing wrong with the practicing the stretching and physical exercise of Yoga.
It is the metaphysical and transcendental aspects of Yoga and that is not something that Christians should not be involved with.

Jun2u · Jan 19, 2018

BreadOfLife said:
That doesn't mean that He didn't honor His Mother (Exod. 20:12).
do you honesty believe that he disrespected her??

Did you ever call your mother "woman" to her face?

Jesus did with Mary!

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