Harvest 1874
Well-Known Member
We explained these passages before, but it appears it was beyond your comprehension barring the fact that your eyes are closed and you only see as the creeds so teach.
Is Hell worse for Some?
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We explained these passages before, but it appears it was beyond your comprehension barring the fact that your eyes are closed and you only see as the creeds so teach.
Harvest 1874
Well-Known Member
I notice that you are too lazy to read our answers, therefore we will no longer waste consecrated time on you as we see no profit in it, but will allow you to continue in the delusion which you have chosen for yourself.
You said your answers are in your BLOG.
I am as you are, in an OP, not your BLOG.
LOL
Typical, Expected, when you can not answer a question, talk in circles, and say you have answered the question. And then you can carry on in your delusion.
Jesus spoke in Parables, which is simply using other words as examples to illustrate a message.
A Crowd gathered to HEAR Jesus SPEAK, Heard Him SPEAK IN PARABLES.
Part of the Crowd, (Like you), would scoff and say, eh, that's JUST a PARABLE, who knows what He is trying to Convey.
And Part of the Crowd, (Like me), says, Jesus is The TRUTH, and ONLY Speaks the TRUTH.
Every Word He SAYS IS TRUE, whether or not it is called a Parable.
Part of the Crowd, (Like you), says, Jesus CAN NOT KNOW ALL THINGS.
Surely He is not talking about Living Souls IN HELL having a Conversation.
Part of the Crowd, (Like me), says, The Lord Jesus DOES KNOW ALL THINGS, (Even His Disciples, TWICE said so), and Jesus Can NOT LIE, and When He says TWO souls IN HeLL are SPEAKING to EACH OTHER...THEY ARE.
Part of the Crowd, walked AWAY, Disbelieving Every Word Jesus said was True.
You Continue to CLAIM you are Following Jesus....WHILE IMPLYING YOU DO NOT BELIEVE Every Word He said is TRUE....
Why are you SCARED to ADMIT "YOUR TRUTH"?
Part of the Crowd, (Like me), Followed After Jesus' Teachings, and BELIEVING ALL that He taught, regardless of what His Style of Speech is called, EVERY WORD He said IS TRUE.
You said Jesus spoke in Parables to HIDE things From Unbelievers.
Scripture says He spoke To REVEAL things that HAD BEEN KEPT Secret.
Matt 13;
[35]... I will utter things which have been kept secret from the foundation of the world.
Yet, who is it who does not BELIEVE what Jesus revealed....? Obvious!!
POSER..One who claims to be For something, while standing Against the something.
You fool no one, and least of all God.
The MYSTERY....Jesus gave ONE Speech...
Part of the crowd Didn't Believe EVERY WORD He said IS TRUE. (Like you)
And Part of the crowd DID Believe EVERY WORD He said IS TRUE. (Like me)
I'm very confident, me being IN Complete Trust the Lord Jesus is ALL Knowing and ONLY Speaks the Truth....that I am NOT the ONE in Jeopardy....
Glory to God,
Taken
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You certainly have the right to reject the teaching of the Holy Spirit on this matter.
It is also defined as everlasting punishment. duration: everlasting. nature: conscious torment.
This is the teaching of the holy scriptures no matter how you try to weasel your way around it.
The promise is to the righteous, not to the wicked. The wicked's fate is spoken of in the immediate context, in Revelation 21:8.
Of course the wicked will everlastingly have wailing and gnashing of teeth over their rejection of Christ and His forgiveness.
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@charity,
nations consist of a large grouping of individuals.
Hello @justbyfaith,
Yes, nations consist of a large grouping of individuals, but it is the nation itself which will be judged at that time, not the individual living members within it.
However the doctrine concerning hell and eternal conscious punishment is what has been preached for centuries, and according to that erroneous doctrine, individuals are at this moment suffering eternal conscious punishment, without having had the opportunity for justice to be given. Which in our society is the right of every man, before a court of law. Yet we expect God to have arbitrarily cast the unbelieving into a place of eternal conscious punishment without trial!! Is this the testimony of Scripture, is this a true portrayal of God's justice?
* This stems from the erronious belief that man has an immortal soul, and that at death will go to either heaven or hell. Man does not have an immortal soul, at death the body goes back to dust, and the spirit (or breath of life) goes back to God who gave it. As there is no consciousness in death, though centuries pass before that day when all will be resurrected to stand before their Maker, they will wake with no consciousness of the passage of time that has lapsed.
* No! God is a God of justice: and Judgement will take place at the end of the age; and all, outside of Christ, will stand before God; Who will judge each man justly, according to their works. Then it is that due justice will be carried out. Life or death is what is before each man: and not eternal conscious punishment. The punishment is eternal, with no hope of reprieve. The dead, so judged, and found wanting, will die a second death, a final destruction which is eternal in duration.
* There is no Scripture reference given, but this is what I believe to be the testimony of Scripture. It is for each man to search the Scriptures to see if these things are indeed so.
Thank you.
In Christ Jesus
Chris
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'This is the day which the LORD hath made;
we will rejoice and be glad in it.'
(Psalm 118:24)
* Good Morning! @Taken.
[I have sung this verse as part of a hymn, and quoted it, but today, looking at it in it's context, the 'day' is specifically when, 'the stone which the builder's refused is become the headstone of the corner' - v22 - How important it is to check the context!!]
Praise God!
Thank you.
In Christ Jesus
Chris.
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In our society, criminals are placed in jail for safe-keeping even before they are allowed a trial. This is basically unavoidable.
Think with me.
If there is no conscious torment while the sinner awaits judgment, then this conscious torment must indeed take place after judgment (as shown forth in the story of the rich man and Lazarus), i.e. after they are cast into the lake of fire and brimstone. Therefore the second death would be in effect eternal separation from Christ in which the person is conscious of their experience so that there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
By your own admission this does not happen while they are waiting for annihilation.
I think that the following scripture bears mentioning, since most people do not want to believe in the reality that Jesus taught, of eternal conscious torment/punishment after death for every wicked sinner who rejects the forgiveness of Christ:
2Ti 4:1, I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;
2Ti 4:2, Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
2Ti 4:3, For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
2Ti 4:4, And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
Davy
Well-Known Member
You are essentially calling me a liar. But it's actually you... that is telling the lies here with your 'dead-in-the-ground' fleshy soul doctrine from the orthodox unbelieving Jews. And that is why you failed to address the 1 Peter 4:6 Scripture I posted that makes it clear that Jesus preached The Gospel to souls in hell that had died in their flesh.
Davy
Well-Known Member
You've simply got the New Testament revelations all twisted to nothing by following the old traditions of the Jews about the soul and flesh body.
1 Cor 15:45-49
45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
KJV
That "image of the heavenly" is NOT a flesh body.
The soul is NOT flesh. The "spirit" of Eccl.12:5-7 includes the 'soul' of man.
What you have accepted about the soul is from paganism. If the "spirit" of Eccl.12 only means animate breath that makes the flesh alive, which the profane teach that is only what animals have too, then flesh death would mean eternal death of the individual. In other words, the individual would no longer exist, gone, no more, period, into nothing, nothing left to raise from the dead. That idea is what paganism believes. They believe the soul is from God and is like a drop of water when in a flesh body, and when the flesh dies, that drop of water goes back into the great sea they represent as God, losing its personality. This is why they often teach the concept of becoming 'one' with the cosmic, because of that false belief.
@justbyfaith
@Davy
@Taken
Thank you for your responses.
To @Davy and @justbyfaith, who expressed disagreement. Thank you both, but I stand by what I said in my entries.
I have no desire to pursue this further.
In Christ Jesus
Chris
@Davy
@Taken
Thank you for your responses.
To @Davy and @justbyfaith, who expressed disagreement. Thank you both, but I stand by what I said in my entries.
I have no desire to pursue this further.
In Christ Jesus
Chris
Harvest 1874
Well-Known Member
Sometimes you just have to brush the dust off your feet and move on. It is not for us to give the eye to see nor the ear to hear, only the Lord can do that. All we can do is pity those who are still held in bondage to Babylon, and pray that the Lord's kingdom come soon that they might be freed.
The only reason I can see for you to reject sound doctrine on this issue is if you know that you yourself are not/may not be going to heaven and want the alternative to be less fearful.
Other than that, perhaps it is just that you want God to be more merciful than He will be to those who would reject His forgiveness. But mercy is to the forgiven.
You will be less of an evangelist because of what you believe because the truth creates more of an urgency to get the lost saved...the lies of the enemy tend to diminish that urgency.
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charity expressed nothing to the point of rejecting sound doctrine.
Not "ALL" sound doctrine "APPLIES" the same to every person.
What charity implied is what "APPLIES" to her, is not the SAME what "APPLIES" to others, thus there is no need for her to continue on a particular topic of difference.
Glory to God,
Taken
As you, (justbyfaith) Speaking to: Phoneman 777, Of course he has the right to reject teaching of the Holy spirit...
However What he said, and what you replied to WAS NOT a rejection of the teaching of the Holy Spirit.
The Punishment IS Everlasting.
The Everlasting Punishment IS Separation from God FOREVER.
You INCLUDE..."a conscious TORMENT".
THE ONLY THING "CONSCIOUS", is a THING, which HAS "LIFE" 'IN IT".
Fallen Angels "ARE SPIRITS", "Spirits DO NOT PHYSICALLY DIE", their TORMENTS IS consciously FOREVER.
Mans LIFE, is his BLOOD...oops..DEAD MEN have no Blood, it returns to DUST.
A Souls LIFE, is Gods Breath...oops...(an Unsaved soul,) suffers separation from God, IN Hell, in consciousness, UNTIL Judgement and Sentencing.
The body of the Unsaved soul is resurrected in Damnination...
AFTER Judgement of the Unsaved soul, and the Damned Body...THE BREATH OF LIFE Returns to God....AND;
The BODY and SOUL destroyed.
Oops..no LIFE in the body, no LIFE in the soul
Do you think SOMETHING WITHOUT LIFE IN IT, is "Conscious" and "SUFFERING" ?
Oops...they NEVER RECEIVE, a born again, Forever LIVING spirit.
They SHALL KNOW, forever they WILL BE Separated FROM GOD.
They SHALL BE, forever Separated FROM God.
Their SOUL without Life, their Body without Life...shall BURN to Ash, and Be but Specks of DUST cast into outer darkness.
You read Scriptures and APPLY TO YOU, "according TO" what you DO or DO NOT Do....
The Same is for everyone else.
I APPLY TO ME, that I am IN Christ's Church.
Because ... The Lord has Already Accomplished IN ME...that I AM MADE WHOLE....AND NOT SUBJECT TO WRATH.
It is those WHO HAVE NOT YET BeeN "MADE" Whole...WHO remain ON EARTH, During the GREAT Tribulation...ARE subject to wrath, which is Gods Anger being demonstrated UPON those Rejecting God "OR" Christ Jesus.
Why PUT their dispair ON Christ?
Their Forever Separation FROM thee Lord God is Because of "THEIR REJECTION' of thee Lord God.
They CHOSE to REJECT thee Lord God.
They CHOSE to NOT BE WITH Him.
The Consequence for Rejecting IS NOT Secret.
The Lord God IS Just...
Everyone Gets What THEY CHOOSE.
Glory to God,
Taken
Triumph1300
Well-Known Member
Hello, dear person, (@justbyfaith)
With love in my heart, I tell you that it is because I have studied the subject in depth. Looking up every verse in Scripture where the word 'Hell' is mentioned, considering the context in which it comes, in the light of the original meaning of the middle English word Hell (ie., 'to hide away'), and without the influence of Greek philosophy and other factors that influence our understanding of it traditionally.
* I looked up Sheol, Hades, Gehenna and Tartaroo, which are so translated, and looked at all the ways in which those words are used in Scripture, and the various ways they were translated. Going through each verse with a tooth-comb.
* I remember doing it so clearly, because my elder sister and I did it by telephone. I found the list of verses in Strong's concordance, and we both looked up each verse together, she in her home and I in mine, over several days. As we studied them and considered their context, we set aside for further thought those verses which needed greater consideration until the end (e.g., Luke 16:19-31), when we took time to come to an understanding of them in the light of all that we had learned to date.
* That is why I am so confident about these things. and praise God for setting me free from the trappings of tradition. I can't recommend that process too much, for it is illuminating, and free from man's intervention. Then you can know without fear of man's condemnation, that one know the truth as taught by Scripture alone.
Praise His Holy Name!
In Christ Jesus
Chris
Note:- (Strong's numbers)
H7592 = Sheol (translated - Grave, hell and pit)
G1067 = Gehenna (translated - Hell)
G86 = Hades (translated - grave, hell)
G5020 = Tartaroo (hell)
* Remembering that the only sure means of discovering the meaning of any word used in Scripture (by the Author), is by comparing Scripture with Scripture, to see how the Holy Spirit uses it: for concordant definitions are the work of man and are therefore fallible, and in this case influenced by tradition.
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As a matter of fact it is. Your opinion is that it isn't; and therefore you have also rejected the clear teaching of the Holy Spirit. (Keep studying, if you are honest with the scriptures I think you may find it eventually).
I think that in your study, you may have missed some verses that speak on the subject. For in some such verses, hell is referred to as "the furnace of fire" and one in particular does not mention any of the words that you speak of (Revelation 14:9-11); perhaps even others also (such as Revelation 20:10).
Therefore I suggest that you have not done a comprehensive study as you think you have.
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