Trinity vs. Tritheism: Understanding the Trinity.

101G · Jul 24, 2019

justbyfaith said:
It is Ephesians 4:10 that tells us that He who descended also ascended to fill all things.

He who was outside of time (Isaiah 57:15) descended into time and then ascended to be outside of time once again.

That makes two Persons who are the same Person, existing outside of time.

ERROR, not two persons, ONE PERSON shared. for if it was two person then you would have two Gods. God is only ONE PERSON. scripture, Isaiah 63:5 "And I looked, and there was none to help; and I wondered that there was none to uphold: therefore mine own arm brought salvation unto me; and my fury, it upheld me".
is your OWN ARM you or someone else? you still are thinking in the NATURAL, Carnal. God is Spiritual, not natural, nor carnal. listen, Isaiah 53:1 "Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed?
Isaiah 53:2 "For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him."
you think that the "he" and the "him" here in verse 2 WHO is God OWN ARM is a separate Person, NO. if it's God OWN ARM, then it's God himself. but HOW? his equal "share", or diversity of himself in flesh, "THE EXPRESS IMAGE" of his, his, his, PERSON.
notice, Isaiah 41:4 "Who hath wrought and done it, calling the generations from the beginning? I the LORD, the first, and with the last; I am he". you think this is two PERSON, the "FIRST", one PERSON, and the "LAST", two PERSON. this is an ERROR on your part. it's the same PERSON. look at it again. the First, is the Spirit, the Beginning, Genesis 1:1. the Last, is the End, at John 1:1, the same Spirit in Flesh. that which was unseen, (Spirit), is now seen in flesh. this is the "ANOTHER" of the SAME "SORT", or the same Person. read Isaiah 41:4 again, ONE PERSON. now this, Isaiah 48:12 "Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last". the SAME ONE PERSON. understand, that which was "WITH" is "ALSO", the same ONE PERSON, only "diversified", or Shared in flesh.

so no two persons, only ONE PERSON shared of oneself.... the ANOTHER OF ONESELF.

PICJAG.

justbyfaith · Jul 24, 2019

It is two Persons dwelling in eternity who are the same Person and the same God.

He dwells in eternity; descended into time; and ascended once more into eternity.

This is two of the same Person dwelling side-by-side in eternity.

And while they are the same Person, there are certain distinctions in who they are.

The 2nd Person has an added nature of human flesh (1 John 4:1-3, 2 John 1:7).

101G · Jul 24, 2019

justbyfaith said:
It is two Persons dwelling in eternity who are the same Person and the same God.

He dwells in eternity; descended into time; and ascended once more into eternity.

This is two of the same Person dwelling side-by-side in eternity.

And while they are the same Person, there are certain distinctions in who they are.

The 2nd Person has an added nature of human flesh (1 John 4:1-3, 2 John 1:7).

that don't make any sense jbf. if you have two person then you have two PERSONS. "This is two of the same Person dwelling side-by-side in eternity". look jbf, if there was any second person that person would have the SAME ONE NATURE Spirit. now tell us how much of the ONE Spirit added flesh as you say?. that's nonesense, it have NEVER BEEN two separate "Persons", only one -shared- in flesh. did you not hear, Isaiah 44:6 "Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God".
did you not hear? he's the First and the Last and on one else is beside him. that's clear as a bell. now what you need to do is determine how God is the FIRST and is the Last and also the First and the Last at the same TIME.

PICJAG

PS, notice, Isaiah 46:5 "To whom will ye liken me, and make me equal, and compare me, that we may be like?
all that co-equal nonsense that the trinity doctrine teaches is false. me is a single designation. but in Philippians 2:6 "Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God". the only one "EQUAL" to god is God himself.

justbyfaith · Jul 24, 2019

@101G,

You know that it does make sense...

If it doesn't make sense to you, then may I suggest that you are lacking a little bit in the area of intellect; because it makes perfect sense to me.

101G · Jul 24, 2019

justbyfaith said:
@101G,

You know that it does make sense...

If it doesn't make sense to you, then may I suggest that you are lacking a little bit in the area of intellect; because it makes perfect sense to me.

Ok jbf, who is the "First"? and then ask yourself who is the "Last"? is that two Persons, yes or No?

PICJAG

justbyfaith · Jul 24, 2019

same Person.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

God is a Person; He exists next to Himself in eternity.

Because He descended out of eternity into time and then back into eternity (Ephesians 4:10).

In descending He took on an added nature of human flesh; and in ascending back into eternity He did not strip Himself of that added human nature.

So you have one Person dwelling in eternity, existing as two distinct individuals: one as the Omnipresent Father; the other as the Father come in human flesh, limited to a finite human body and dwelling in that body.

101G · Jul 24, 2019

justbyfaith said:
same Person.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

God is a Person; He exists next to Himself in eternity.

Because He descended out of eternity into time and then back into eternity (Ephesians 4:10).

In descending He took on an added nature of human flesh; and in ascending back into eternity He did not strip Himself of that added human nature.

So you have one Person dwelling in eternity, existing as two distinct individuals: one as the Omnipresent Father; the other as the Father come in human flesh, limited to a finite human body and dwelling in that body.

jbf, are you reading your bible? He is him that is to come, there is only ONE person dewlling in eternity. did you get anything we wrote before? the First, (who you call the Father, is the same one who is the Son, the Last, the LAST Adam, God manifested in flesh as a man). listen, Romans 5:14 "Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come. hear that jby, to "COME". see the Spirit was at Genesis 1:1 in the beginning he is by himself".
that's why in Genesis 1:26 God said, "US" and "OUR". but in the very next verse he said this, Genesis 1:27 "So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them." now think jbf, why and how did "us" and "our" in verse 26, went to "his" and "he" in verse 27? why, why, because he was alone and by himself. the IMAGE was to "COME". see, the Son was to Come. that which was from ETERNALITY just as 1 John 1:2 states. read that verse. only at John 1:1 was God manifested. the Equal share in flesh. from Genesis 1:1 to the Gospels is only one PERSON.

understand, the Lord Jesus is the Manifested Spirit in flesh. Jesus is that life in 1 John 1:2 revealed in flesh, (per John 1:14). not two person, but the same Person "SHARED".

PICJAG.

justbyfaith · Jul 25, 2019

Right. There is only one Person dwelling in eternity; and He is God, dwelling with God in eternity, John 1:1.

The first, dwells in eternity, outside of time.

The last, dwells in eternity, outside of time.

He exists side-by-side in eternity; that is the only way that I can think of to say it.

101G · Jul 25, 2019

justbyfaith said:
Right. There is only one Person dwelling in eternity; and He is God, dwelling with God in eternity, John 1:1.

The first, dwells in eternity, outside of time.

The last, dwells in eternity, outside of time.

He exists side-by-side in eternity; that is the only way that I can think of to say it.

GINOLJC, to all
First thanks for the reply, second. there is no two PERSONS. you're not understand the term "WITH" in John 1:1. listen John 1:1c " and the Word was God". jbf, did you see it? if not listen, if the Word was "WITH" God, and John 1:1c states the Word is God, that's the same ONE PERSON, read it again. "and the Word was God. even if it was a second person, it's the SAME PERSON, no matter 1st 2 nd, or 3rd. get it. when John 1:1c said "and the Word was God", it saying "I AM HE", ONE PERSON as in Isaiah 41:4 "Who hath wrought and done it, calling the generations from the beginning? I the LORD, the first, and with the last; I am he.
do you see it now? I the LORD is ONE PERSON who is the (First/Father) "WITH" the (Last/Son). "I AM HE", one and the Same Person.
I Just don't see how you can miss that.

PICJAG.

justbyfaith · Jul 25, 2019

101G said:
even if it was a second person, it's the SAME PERSON,

That is what I have been saying.

101G said:
deo you see it now? I the LORD is ONE PERSON who is the (First/Father) "WITH" the (Last/Son). "I AM HE", one and the Same Person.
I Just don't see how you can miss that.

Yes I see it clearly.

The son that was given shall have his name be called, among other things, the everlasting Father.

Nevertheless I see that God dwells in eternity and also descended to take on an added nature of human flesh. I believe that this added nature would affect personality; although in Spirit they would be one and the same Person.

101G · Jul 25, 2019

101G said: ↑
even if it was a second person, it's the SAME PERSON,
That is what I have been saying.

First thanks for the reply, second, Jby, here’s your mistake. If someone, it makes no difference which of your persons came down from eternity, the lie is this. Three person one nature. Ok, if one of your persons came down, then that ONE nature, how much of it came down with that ONE person? …. well. 1/3? if so, now you have a 1/3 God on earth in flesh, and 2/3 of Godin Heaven. God is not Divided into parts, if so you now have two Gods thats one who is a third. see your ERROR, listen.

Remember the scripture states that GOD is with us, and God is not 1/3, listen, Matthew 1:23 "Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us”. it said God is with us. Well that would include all of the person, because they got the same ONE nature, and that want fly because of this, Philippians 2:7 "But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men”:
That term “No reputation”, is the Greek word, G2758 κενόω kenoo (ke-no-ō') v.
1. to make empty.
2. (figuratively) to abase, neutralize, falsify.
[from G2756]
KJV: make (of none effect, of no reputation, void), be in vain
Root(s): G2756
That just neutralize all of your persons. or it neutralize 1/3 of God's Nature, if it's 1/3 that came down. now God is 1/3 neutralize. are you really hearing yourself? So now you have a choice of A. all came down, and are neutralize, or B. only 1/3 came down, and was neutralize, which violates Matthew 1:23 . And all are false choices. Now what?.

PICJAG.

101G · Jul 25, 2019

This is the problem with the “TRINITY” doctrine. It’s a lie that been running for two days, (God time), 1,00 years like a day to God.
If there are three persons in the Godhead, (which it is not), then all came down or a third came down and neither will fly, (if as said all are co-equal). Which bring us to this point. If the Lord Jesus is G2758 κενόω kenoo (ke-no-ō') in flesh, and that noe nature is not in that flesh, then there is NO hypostatic union, or God man as many are saying. Either the ONE nature is in the body of the Lord Jesus or none of the Nature is in Jesus. So the choice of the God man as many have said, is either true or false.
Here’s the dilemma for the God man scenario. If one say that it’s God in flesh, ok, then all person is in that flesh because the NATURE is one for all, (being co-equal). If one say only a part, or a third was in that flesh then you have God divided, and you have two Gods, because you have two separate and distinct natures.

Either way one go it’s anti bible, meaning it's a lie.

People, people, many of you just don’t know what happening to you right now, yes, even as we speak, do you. Well your answer, Psalms 110:1, read it.
As said, you have been dragging that lie around all of your life, now the wheels are off, and the burden is getting really heavy to support the lie. This is why a lie is always running …......... it knows it don’t have long to live, it running for it life. And time is running out for it… (smile).

PICJAG.

101G · Jul 25, 2019

@justbyfaith, not only the OT speak of God as ONE person, so do the New testament. example, Revelation 21:1 "And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

Revelation 21:2 "And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

Revelation 21:3 "And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God." (STOP, and examine this scripture closley, God is referred to as a single person).

Revelation 21:4 "And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

Revelation 21:5 "And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

Revelation 21:6 "And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.

Revelation 21:7 "He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son." (Again, God is referred to as "I" a single person designation).

one cannot miss that. just as in the OT, the same in the NT. one PERSON designation. in any plurality in the Gospels is speaking of the same ONE PERSON.

PICJAG.

justbyfaith · Jul 25, 2019

Hi @101G, I think that you may be able to get it in about just a second...so think with me for a minute.

God is God the Father. One God, inhabiting eternity.

Now, not 1/3 of God, but the one God, descended and took on human flesh,

Eph 3:11, According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:

But before He descended, He was inhabiting eternity, that is, He existed outside of time; where there is no past, present, or future.

The nature of this is that if God left eternity, there would be a "signature imprint" of His nature and character that would be left behind in eternity. I am saying that in descending to become a Man, God cannot vacate eternity.

So, in descending to become a Man, He has moved on from inhabiting eternity and yet He continues to inhabit eternity (as the 1st Person of the Trinity).

When God the Father took on an added nature of human flesh, He laid down His Omnipresence and other attributes of Deity. He became a Man. This Person is still the Father (John 4:23-24, John 14:7-11); but is also an entirely different Person; and yet the same Person. He is the same Spirit; but with an added nature of human flesh, affecting His nature and character as the one Spirit

Now the Holy Ghost, in descending and taking on the nature of flesh, in effect, became a Man. This Man has a body, soul, and spirit. The Spirit of the Man is the Holy Ghost, even the Spirit of Christ. The body and soul of the man would be derived from His humanity; even the motherhood of Mary. There is one Spirit (Ephesians 4:4); and therefore the Spirit that is the Father (John 4:23-24) must be the same Spirit that is the Holy Ghost (John 7:37-39); although it is written in the holy scriptures that one proceeds from the other (John 14:26).

It is clear that Jesus' Spirit was/is God the Father (John 4:23-24, John 14:7-11). When Jesus died on the Cross, He released His Spirit back to God the Father who inhabiteth eternity (Luke 23:36); in effect reproducing Himself as a Spirit.

He did this by manipulating the relationship between eternity and time.

101G · Jul 25, 2019

justbyfaith said:
The nature of this is that if God left eternity, there would be a "signature imprint" of His nature and character that would be left behind in eternity. I am saying that in descending to become a Man, God cannot vacate eternity.

So, in descending to become a Man, He has moved on from inhabiting eternity and yet He continues to inhabit eternity (as the 1st Person of the Trinity).

STOP right there, if He has moved on from inhabiting eternity, then he is not God. and the Scriptures states that God is with us. so that want fly.

justbyfaith said:
When God the Father took on an added nature of human flesh, He laid down His Omnipresence and other attributes of Deity.

that means he STOP being God, and that's one NATURE you said is just Stoped. that want fly.

justbyfaith said:
He became a Man. This Person is still the Father (John 4:23-24, John 14:7-11); but is also an entirely different Person; and yet the same Person.

that's contridictory.

justbyfaith said:
Now the Holy Ghost, in descending and taking on the nature of flesh, in effect, became a Man

so you now have another one of your Person coming down? but did you not say the Father came down as a separate person? that want fly.

justbyfaith said:
It is clear that Jesus' Spirit was/is God the Father (John 4:23-24, John 14:7-11). When Jesus died on the Cross, He released His Spirit back to God the Father who inhabiteth eternity (Luke 23:36); in effect reproducing Himself as a Spirit.

reproducing is creating a God, and that's anti scripture, listen Isaiah 43:10 "Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. and God is Spirit, so that want fly.
try something else.

PICJAG.

justbyfaith · Jul 25, 2019

101G said:
that means he STOP being God,

Emptying Himself of the attributes of Deity does not mean that He stopped being God.

101G said:
that's contridictory.

And there are things in God that do indeed seem to contradict each other; for that there is paradox in God. Have you never read:

Isa 55:8, For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.
Isa 55:9, For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

101G said:
so you now have another one of your Person coming down? but did you not say the Father came down as a separate person?

I am saying that the Father is the Holy Ghost and vice versa.

101G said:
reproducing is creating a God, and that's anti scripture, listen Isaiah 43:10 "Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. and God is Spirit, so that want fly.
try something else.

No, the Holy Ghost was not formed. He came out of the body of Jesus Christ to inhabit eternity.

He is the same Spirit as the Father but with a distinct personality from the Father. He has experienced dwelling in human flesh, whereas the Father has not yet experienced that. Thus the Son and the Spirit make intercession for us before the Father; and the Father listens to them, knowing that He does not understand humanity as of yet.

101G · Jul 25, 2019

justbyfaith said:
Emptying Himself of the attributes of Deity does not mean that He stopped being God.

if you're not all knowing then you're not God. ect...

justbyfaith said:
And there are things in God that do indeed seem to contradict each other; for that there is paradox in God. Have you never read:

Isa 55:8, For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.
Isa 55:9, For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

that's not contridictory, that's a FACT.

justbyfaith said:
I am saying that the Father is the Holy Ghost and vice versa.

there is no vice versa, it's just one PERSON "shared". listen the Holy Ghost whom many put last is the "ONLY" person.

justbyfaith said:
No, the Holy Ghost was not formed. He came out of the body of Jesus Christ to inhabit eternity.

is not Jesus the Holy Ghost already? do you see your ERROR? if the Holy Ghost was in Christ, who is God, and
G2758 κενόω kenoo (ke-no-ō') who was sustaining the universe. because the Holy Ghost is Jesus, now in flesh in a G2758 κενόω kenoo state, that want fly.

try again.

PICJAG.

justbyfaith · Jul 25, 2019

I think that you just need to think some more about what I have already said; asking the Holy Ghost to illuminate my words to your mind.

1Co 2:13, Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
1Co 2:14, But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

justbyfaith · Jul 25, 2019

101G said:
is not Jesus the Holy Ghost already?

Jesus is a Man, composed of spirit (Father, Holy Ghost), soul, and body.

justbyfaith · Jul 25, 2019

If Jesus is the Holy Ghost, then it would be the unpardonable sin to speak against Him.

However, it is written, that if anyone speaks a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him.

Trinity vs. Tritheism: Understanding the Trinity.

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