Who Is "the Restrainer" In 2 Thess. 2:6-7

Marcus O'Reillius said:

Anyone can say who the one is; no one can prove it though.

Pinning the tail on the donkey in this case is just as much idle speculation as those people who will tell you that they know who the anti-Christ is.

The use of the neutral gender in one case goes against a person being the "one", which is why so many look to a spiritual entity as its source.

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I've provided enough proof in post 214. The proof is in the Hebrew language and the timing of Michael in the 70th week. It's all there brother.

Marcus O'Reillius said:

OSAS does not hold when the faith does not continue in the person right up into the end.

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Using parables to prove OSAS is false and is weak exegesis, while the rest of the Bible confirms the perseverance of the saints. Otherwise, we can also confirm Luke 16:19-31 proves soul sleep is false. Also, you're in contradiction Marcus. How can a believer receive the Mark of the Beast when they've already received the Mark of the Holy Spirit until redemption...

contradict / verb (used with object)
1. to assert the contrary or opposite of; deny directly and categorically.
2. to speak contrary to the assertions of: to contradict oneself.
3. (of an action or event) to imply a denial of: His way of life contradicts his stated principles.
4. Obsolete. to speak or declare against; oppose.

John 6:27 NIV Do not work for food that spoils, but for food that endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you. For on him God the Father has placed his seal of approval."

1 Cor 9:2 NIV Even though I may not be an apostle to others, surely I am to you! For you are the seal of my apostleship in the Lord.

2 Cor 1:21-22 NIV Now it is God who makes both us and you stand firm in Christ. He anointed us, 22set his seal of ownership on us, and put his Spirit in our hearts as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.

Eph 1:13-14 NIV And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.

Eph 4:30 NIV And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

Phoneman777 said:

If Paul told the Thessalonians that Michael was the Restrainer when he previously visited them (2 Thessalonians 2:5 KJV) then why did he choose to remain so mysterious and secretive

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The same way God is mysterious about OSAS, soul sleep and free will. He wants us to figure it out for ourselves. I've provided enough proof in post 214. The proof is in the Hebrew language and the timing of Michael in the 70th week. It's all there brother.

Marcus O'Reillius said:

Back to conspiracy theories and other such kookiness...

Everybody wants to say who it is. Whoever your unsourced allegation is, was not there either, and is just as much in the dark as you are, playing psychiatrist behind a keyboard. (Man up? Don't make me laugh.)

Earth to phoneman: Rome was not destroyed centuries later because it has two legs.
In fact, there have been resurgent Roman Empires, "Holy" and not, even unto recently: Hitler's third Reich.

You can call your eschatology anything you want: it's still Preterism with a different label. Not only can you not discern what is written in the Bible, nor does your grasp of history fit your wild theory; you don't even know what you're saying is exactly what your fighting against.

"Demands". You are in no position to dictate anything when you can't show the least of it.

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Cognitive Dissonance is a very real and destructive condition where unwelcome truth is safely set aside in the interest of shielding one's self from the fear, pain, and uneasiness that truth produces, but please remember that God never sends the truth to harm us, but to warn us.

Marcus O'Reillius said:

1. LIAR. Gabriel does NOT say he was there to explain a vision which happened weeks or even months previously.

Dan 9:22 - He came to give him insight and understanding in response to his prayers!

2. YOU say Jesus confirmed the Covenant with many for one 'week'.
I had to drag it out of you that the ONLY Covenant Jesus made was the New Covenant.
And you are so dull that you cannot comprehend the intellectual dichotomy trying to hold both statements together then means!

IF Jesus confirmed the covenant of Daniel 9:27 -
And since that covenant only lasts for the last 'week' of the seventy 'sevens' -
AND you want to say it goes back to the start of His Ministry (which it doesn't)
THEN you are saying the New Covenant Jesus made has run out.

Of course it hasn't, but that won't stop you from saying the New Covenant Jesus made is the one in Daniel 9:27.

Of course you also repeatedly (now) say Gabriel said things he never said too.

(Let's see if phoneman will ever correct himself, or if he remains delusional insisting Gabriel came to explain the vision during the time of Belshazzar.)

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I have faults, but lying isn't one of them, friend.

In chapter 9, Gabriel tells Daniel to "consider the vision" (mar 'eh).

In chapter 8, only the 2,300 Days portion of the prophecy is referred to specifically as the "mar eh", and since he was left confused only about that portion of the prophecy, his earnest prayer of chapter 9 resulted in Gabriel coming to give him "skill and understanding" and told him to "understand the matter and consider the vision ("mar 'eh"), the 2,300 Days.

Then immediately follows the 70 Weeks , which sheds light on the "mar 'eh", linking the two prophecies together, not to be broken.

ATP said:

I've provided enough proof in post 214. The proof is in the Hebrew language and the timing of Michael in the 70th week. It's all there brother.


Using parables to prove OSAS is false and is weak exegesis, while the rest of the Bible confirms the perseverance of the saints. Otherwise, we can also confirm Luke 16:19-31 proves soul sleep is false. Also, you're in contradiction Marcus. How can a believer receive the Mark of the Beast when they've already received the Mark of the Holy Spirit until redemption...

contradict / verb (used with object)
1. to assert the contrary or opposite of; deny directly and categorically.
2. to speak contrary to the assertions of: to contradict oneself.
3. (of an action or event) to imply a denial of: His way of life contradicts his stated principles.
4. Obsolete. to speak or declare against; oppose.

John 6:27 NIV Do not work for food that spoils, but for food that endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you. For on him God the Father has placed his seal of approval."

1 Cor 9:2 NIV Even though I may not be an apostle to others, surely I am to you! For you are the seal of my apostleship in the Lord.

2 Cor 1:21-22 NIV Now it is God who makes both us and you stand firm in Christ. He anointed us, 22set his seal of ownership on us, and put his Spirit in our hearts as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.

Eph 1:13-14 NIV And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.

Eph 4:30 NIV And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.


The same way God is mysterious about OSAS, soul sleep and free will. He wants us to figure it out for ourselves. I've provided enough proof in post 214. The proof is in the Hebrew language and the timing of Michael in the 70th week. It's all there brother.

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You cannot offer a reason for Paul's secrecy because there simply is no good reason for it, if the Holy Spirit or some other Agent of holiness was indeed the Restrainer.

There is simply no reason to hide from the church and deprive the suffering saints the encouragement of knowing that the Holy Spirit, or whatever other Agent of Holiness it is claimed to be, has His celestial boot on the neck of Antichrist, restraining its rise to power.

No, ATP, if the Restrainer was the Holy Spirit, Paul would have boldly and triumphantly told us. He didn't dare record in a letter what he'd told them in person because he told them the Restrainer was the Roman Empire, per the ECF, and is why he was so secretive in his letter. When the Roman Empire fell, the Papal Antichrist arose as the "man of sin" of Paul's letter.

Proof that the 70 Weeks prophecy was given to shed light on the 2,300 Days prophecy, linking the two in an unbroken tie which disqualifies all interpretations which seek to separate the one from the other, namely JESUIT FUTURISM and JESUIT PRETERISM.

"As if the information from the previous few days weren't enough to link Daniel 9:24-27 with Daniel 8:14, the Lord has given us even more evidence to make that link.
In Daniel 8:1, 2, Daniel three times makes reference to the "vision" of the chapter; each time it comes from the same Hebrew word, hazon: "In the third year of the reign of king Belshazzar a vision [hazon] appeared unto me, even unto me Daniel, after that which appeared unto me at the first. And I saw in a vision [hazon]; and it came to pass, when I saw, that I was at Shushan in the palace, which is in the province of Elam; and I saw in a vision [hazon], and I was by the river of Ulai" (Dan. 8:1, 2).
Daniel then describes what he sees in the hazon: the ram, the goat, the little horn, and so forth. Hazon, therefore, refers to the general vision of chapter 8.
In contrast, when he talks specifically about the 2,300 days, Daniel uses a different word for vision, mareh. "And the vision [mareh] of the evening and the morning which was told is true. . . . And I Daniel fainted, and was sick certain days; afterward I rose up, and did the king's business; and I was astonished at the vision [mareh], but none understood it" (Dan. 8:26, 27).
Thus, we have two words for "vision" in Daniel 8: hazon for the whole vision, mareh for Daniel 8:14, the vision about the 2,300 days and the sanctuary being cleansed, the part that Daniel didn't understand (Dan. 8:27).
Now these two words appear again, in Daniel 9, when Gabriel appears to Daniel. "Yea, whiles I was speaking in prayer, even the man Gabriel, whom I had seen in the vision [hazon] at the beginning . . . touched me. . . . At the beginning of thy supplications the commandment came forth, and I am come to shew thee; for thou art greatly beloved: therefore understand the matter, and consider the vision [mareh]" (Dan. 9:21-23).
Consider what mareh? There's only one: the mareh of the 2,300 days that Daniel specifically said he didn't understand. In fact, the word translated "consider" comes from bin, which also links this to the mareh of Daniel 8:26, which Daniel needed understanding (bin) about.
Clearly, the explanation of Daniel 9:24-27 is linked to the 2,300 days of the previous chapter. Gabriel came to give Daniel understanding about the mareh of the 2,300 days!"

From the SDA Sabbath School Quarterly, 2nd Quarter 2006

Phoneman777 said:

You cannot offer a reason for Paul's secrecy because there simply is no good reason for it, if the Holy Spirit or some other Agent of holiness was the Restrainer.

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The restrainer is Michael the angel because the church will still be here during the great tribulation.

The proof is in the Hebrew language and the timing of Michael in the 70th week.

Phoneman777 said:

No, ATP, if the Restrainer was the Holy Spirit, Paul would have boldly and triumphantly told us. He didn't dare record in a letter what he'd told them in person because he told them the Restrainer was the Roman Empire, per the ECF, and is why he was so secretive in his letter. When the Roman Empire fell, the Papal Antichrist arose as the "man of sin" of Paul's letter.

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I agree. The restrainer is not the Holy Spirit. It is Michael.

ATP said:

The restrainer is Michael the angel because the church will still be here during the great tribulation.

The proof is in the Hebrew language and the timing of Michael in the 70th week.


I agree. The restrainer is not the Holy Spirit. It is Michael.

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Then why didn't Paul encourage the suffering saints by shouting from the rooftop that Michael was restraining the rise of Antichrist instead of tip toeing around the subject? Just what harm could have come from that???

No, ATP, the ECF told us that Paul identified the Restrainer as the Roman Empire and that is exactly why he didn't dare write it in the letter. The church will be here until the Second Coming and you, like the Jews who today are awaiting the Messiah, will be waiting for a secret Rapture while the Antichrist sweeps every unsuspecting Jesuit Futurist into their clutches.

Phoneman777 said:

No, ATP, the ECF told us that Paul identified the Restrainer as the Roman Empire and that is exactly why he didn't dare write it in the letter.

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Then please explain the word "amad" in Dan 12:1 NIV,

and then explain 2 Thess 2:6-12 NIV and Rev 12:6-12 NIV in post 214.

Phoneman777 said:

The church will be here until the Second Coming and you, like the Jews who today are awaiting the Messiah, will be waiting for a secret Rapture while the Antichrist sweeps every unsuspecting Jesuit Futurist into their clutches.

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No I agree with you here, pre-trib rapture is false.
The "second coming (parousia)" however begins with rapture in 1 Thess 4:15 NIV,
but His second coming will not start until after the great tribulation.

The church will witness the signing of the peace treaty, the third temple built, the first four seals opening, the abomination of desolation, the two witnesses, the fifth seal opening, the GT of man's rebellion and the sixth seal of cosmic disturbances in the sun, moon and stars before they are raptured.

ATP said:

Then please explain the word "amad" in Dan 12:1 NIV,

and then explain 2 Thess 2:6-12 NIV and Rev 12:6-12 NIV in post 214.


No I agree with you here, pre-trib rapture is false.
The "second coming (parousia)" however begins with rapture in 1 Thess 4:15 NIV,
but His second coming will not start until after the great tribulation.

The church will witness the signing of the peace treaty, the third temple built, the first four seals opening, the abomination of desolation, the two witnesses, the fifth seal opening, the GT of man's rebellion and the sixth seal of cosmic disturbances in the sun, moon and stars before they are raptured.

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No, I'd like you to explain why:

(1) you refuse to accept the unanimous testimony of the ECF who claim the Paul told the Thessalonians it was the Pagan Roman Empire, and

(2) you refuse to offer an explanation as to why Paul - a man who fiercely declared the might, power, and love of God before rulers and kings - deprived the early church of the sorely needed encouragement which would have been brought about by him openly proclaiming in his letter to the Thess. that the Restrainer was Michael, the Holy Spirit, or some other agent of Holiness with a mighty celestial boot on the neck of Antichrist.

Of course, there is no credible answer that can be given, but Cognitive Dissonance is a powerful adversary for even truth seekers.

Phoneman777 said:

No, I'd like you to explain why:

(1) you refuse to accept the unanimous testimony of the ECF who claim the Paul told the Thessalonians it was the Pagan Roman Empire, and

(2) you refuse to offer an explanation as to why Paul - a man who fiercely declared the might, power, and love of God before rulers and kings - deprived the early church of the sorely needed encouragement which would have been brought about by him openly proclaiming in his letter to the Thess. that the Restrainer was Michael, the Holy Spirit, or some other agent of Holiness with a mighty celestial boot on the neck of Antichrist.

Of course, there is no credible answer that can be given, but Cognitive Dissonance is a powerful adversary for even truth seekers.

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You really wanna know why I don't hold to occult teaching? <_<

Phoneman777 said:

but Cognitive Dissonance is a powerful adversary for even truth seekers.

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Truth seeker? Oh Phone. My lost little sheep.

blessedhope said:

As We see the retainer must be the Holy Ghost, if you look on this forum and it the last day of the last days of the church and then the true church of Christ will be raptured and mystery Babylon will be left>the whore.If you read the Holy Ghost will not seal in the tribulation as it did in the church age because the true church is gone, yes the ghost will still be working on earth but in a diff way.

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If the Holy Spirit is God (which I believe) how is the omnipresent One "removed"? If, as scripture says. there are saints present during the time of the tribulation, how is the church removed? Do you believe in two churches or do you hold to the idea that the church is a unique entity separate from the congregation of God?

ATP said:

You really wanna know why I don't hold to occult teaching? <_<

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No, I wanna know why a man who was well known for fearlessly proclaiming the power and salvation of God before rulers and kings would suddenly in his 2nd letter to the Thessalonians become so timid and reluctant to reveal that Michael, who you claim is the Restrainer, has his celestial foot on the neck of Antichrist.

ATP said:

Truth seeker? Oh Phone. My lost little sheep.

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Still no answer to the question?

I feel the Restrainer is every true Christ came in the flesh Believer, once after the rapture they are gone and the whore church will be.The holy Ghost will stay on the earth as we see many will be under the Alter. But in the trib the Holy ghost will not seal anymore and you will have to do the walk and the talk and DIE!

Phoneman777 said:

No, I wanna know why a man who was well known for fearlessly proclaiming the power and salvation of God before rulers and kings would suddenly in his 2nd letter to the Thessalonians become so timid and reluctant to reveal that Michael, who you claim is the Restrainer, has his celestial foot on the neck of Antichrist.

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All the pieces of the puzzle fit when you apply Prewrath rapture. Michael has been Israel's protector for quite some time now...

Jude 1:9 NIV But even the archangel Michael, when he was disputing with the devil about the body of Moses, did not himself dare to condemn him for slander but said, “The Lord rebuke you!”

Michael is restrained in the middle of the 70th week so God can send those who have not believed the truth, a strong delusion.

Eph 1:13-14 NIV And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.

2 John 1:2 NIV because of the truth, which lives in us and will be with us forever:

Read below...

blessedhope said:

I feel the Restrainer is every true Christ came in the flesh Believer, once after the rapture they are gone and the whore church will be.The holy Ghost will stay on the earth as we see many will be under the Alter. But in the trib the Holy ghost will not seal anymore and you will have to do the walk and the talk and DIE!

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bhope, tradition tells you it's the church, but if you study more closely we can see the restrainer as Michael the angel at the abomination of desolation. The word "arise" in Dan 12:1 is translated "amad" and can also mean to...

1. stand still, stop, cease moving, of moon Joshua 10:13 (J E; "" וַיִּדֹּם), sun Joshua 10:13, both, Habakkuk 3:11; of person 1 Samuel 9:27 (opposed to עָבַר), 2 Samuel 2:28 (opposed to רָדַף), עִמְדוּ עֲמֹ֫דוּ Nahum 2:9 +; stop flowing (of oil) 2 Kings 4:6; remain standing, with תַּחְתֵּינוּ Judges 7:21; 1 Samuel 14:9 etc.; of eruption in skin = remain unchanged Leviticus 13:23,28; so (without ׳ת) Leviticus 13:5,37 (all P).
2. be inactive 2 Chronicles 20:17 (opposed to לְהִלָּחֵם, + הִתְיַצְּבוּ).
3. stop, cease doing a thing 2 Kings 13:18; with מִן Genesis 29:35; Genesis 30:9 (both J), Joel 1:15.
4. tarry, delay Genesis 45:9 (E), Joshua 10:19 (J E; opposed to רָדַף), 1 Samuel 20:38 (opposed to מְהֵרָה, חוּשָׁה), +.
5. stand afar מֵרָחוֺק Exodus 20:18,21 (E), Isaiah 59:14; Psalm 38:12, ׳בְּר Psalm 10:1; ׳מִנֶּגֶד מֵר 2 Kings 2:7; stand aloof, מִנֶֹּגֶד Obadiah 11; Psalm 38:12.
6. stand (silent) Job 32:16.
7. grow flat, insipid (Gie), taste of wine Jeremiah 48:11 (figurative of Moab), or remain unchanged (so most, in that case compare 3b). — עָמְדִי Daniel 11:1b is corrupt, read probably עָמַדְתִּי, or עָמַד (מִיכָאֵל subject), join then to Daniel 10:21 and strike out Daniel 11:1a; so Bev Behrm MartiKau.

Why does Michael stop moving? So God can send them a strong delusion 2 Thess 2:10-12 NIV. It is clear that there are angelic powers over world empires and leaders and nobody is going to come to power in the land of Israel if the angel of Israel (Michael) prevents them.

Dan 12:1 NIV “At that time Michael, the great prince who protects your people, will arise. There will be a time of distress such as has not happened from the beginning of nations until then. But at that time your people—everyone whose name is found written in the book—will be delivered.

2 Thess 2:6-12 NIV And now you know what is holding him back, so that he may be revealed at the proper time. 7For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so till he is taken out of the way. 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the splendor of his coming. 9 The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with the work of Satan displayed in all kinds of counterfeit miracles, signs and wonders, 10 and in every sort of evil that deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. 11 For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie 12 and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.

Rev 12:6-12 NIV The woman fled into the desert to a place prepared for her by God, where she might be taken care of for 1,260 days. 7 And there was war in heaven. Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought back. 8 But he was not strong enough, and they lost their place in heaven. 9 The great dragon was hurled down--that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him. 10 Then I heard a loud voice in heaven say: "Now have come the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God, and the authority of his Christ. For the accuser of our brothers, who accuses them before our God day and night, has been hurled down. 11 They overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony; they did not love their lives so much as to shrink from death. 12 Therefore rejoice, you heavens and you who dwell in them! But woe to the earth and the sea, because the devil has gone down to you! He is filled with fury, because he knows that his time is short."

ATP said:

All the pieces of the puzzle fit when you apply Prewrath rapture. Michael has been Israel's protector for quite some time now...

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I'm not asking you for a convoluted explanation of why you think Michael is the Restrainer. I'm asking you to answer a very simple question which arises if you are right that Michael is the Restrainer and the Early Church Fathers are wrong in their claim that Paul told the Thessalonians that it was the Roman Empire, thought they lived much closer to the time of Paul and likely knew and preserved for posterity whatever Paul told them, so much so that these ECF were UNANIMOUS in their belief:

Why would a man who was well known for fearlessly proclaiming the power and salvation of God before rulers and kings suddenly in his 2nd letter to the Thessalonians become so timid and reluctant to reveal that Michael, who you claim is the Restrainer, has his celestial foot on the neck of Antichrist?

Phoneman777 said:

I'm not asking you for a convoluted explanation of why you think Michael is the Restrainer.

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How is using the word of God and Hebrew translation convoluted?

Phoneman777 said:

I'm asking you to answer a very simple question which arises if you are right that Michael is the Restrainer and the Early Church Fathers are wrong in their claim that Paul told the Thessalonians that it was the Roman Empire, thought they lived much closer to the time of Paul and likely knew and preserved for posterity whatever Paul told them, so much so that these ECF were UNANIMOUS in their belief:

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Show me in scripture where it says the restrainer is the Roman Empire.

It really makes no sense to say that the Roman Empire, which destroyed the city and the sanctuary, and from whom the anti-Christ originates - who as the King of the North, would occupy Europe which lies in the northern half of the Northern Hemisphere - is restraining its leader!

Rome is the spiritual enemy of God - it is the last Kingdom on earth which will be destroyed when Christ Jesus, the "rock cut out of the mountain without hands" (that is by God), smashes it to bits in establishing His Millennial Reign here on earth.

Marcus O'Reillius said:

It really makes no sense to say that the Roman Empire, which destroyed the city and the sanctuary, and from whom the anti-Christ originates - who as the King of the North, would occupy Europe which lies in the northern half of the Northern Hemisphere - is restraining its leader!

Rome is the spiritual enemy of God - it is the last Kingdom on earth which will be destroyed when Christ Jesus, the "rock cut out of the mountain without hands" (that is by God), smashes it to bits in establishing His Millennial Reign here on earth.

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Seems logical to me. The restrainer would have to be an ally of God, not an enemy.