The Same For All Eternity

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skyangel

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Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever. ( Heb 13:8 )
Jesus Christ IS the WORD of God which is therefore also the same yesterday today and forever.
Jesus is the TRUTH of God which is also always the same yesterday today and forever.
God never changes.

Malachi 3:6 For I [am] the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

The Word of God is the same Yesterday Today and Forever. That means Past Present and Future. That must apply for all eternity, otherwise it would have to change, would it not? Consider..... If future promises were not eternal then once they had been fulfilled, the bible would need to be changed to say...".OOPS this particular promise has passed already and is no longer valid to any future generations. It does not mean what it says any more". Does that mean its sheer "bad luck" to all who are born in this world after those promises have been fulfilled?.

ALL the promises in the bible are eternal and they all apply to all generations of the past present and future for all time. The word of God never invalidates itself at any time in the past present or future.
All Gods promises are fulfilled within every generation of the past present and future for ever.
Every person on earth in the past present and future has seen, will see and will continue to see all those promises fulfilled in their lifetime. Eternal Life is an eternal cycle of life which includes death till such a time as the children of God past present and future overcome death through death. The life cycle is the same for all people for all eternity.


I have heared people argue that there are two different covenants in the bible and the new invalidates the old but I disagree with that concept because of the fact that
Jesus fulfilled ALL the OT law and prophets and set us an example to do likewise.

The old and the new covenant promises still apply to all people of the past present and future. If they live under the law they are bound by the law. No man can escape the law of God.
Making excuses and saying one is an old covenant and one is a new covenant makes no difference because they are the same law not two different laws. Jesus taught that people still need to keep the commandments. He never said you can now do anything you want because the commandments are no longer relevant.

John 14:45 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

John 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

1 John 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

1 John 5:2-3 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

Prov 7:1-2 My son, keep my words, and lay up my commandments with thee. Keep my commandments, and live; and my law as the apple of thine eye.

Ecc 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this [is] the whole [duty] of man.

The wages of sin is death regardless of whether it was in the past present or future. believing in Jesus will not save anyone unless they obey Him and live and walk in Truth the same as He does. The devils also believe and tremble ( James 2:19 ).

Many false teachers are in this world who teach a false Jesus and seduce people into their religions with all their false doctrines which are finite, changable and unstable since false doctrines do not apply to past present and future at all times but only apply and are only relevant to the time they are referring to. That is how you can tell they are false as well as the fact that if the concepts taught by false futuristic doctrines ever did come to pass they would change the word of God and make its promises invalid.

The future promises in the Word of God are eternally future for ever and will never change. The Word of God is all past present and future at the same time. None of it is exempt from being valid today or any other day.

God always makes all things new daily. That includes His covenant with mankind. The new commandment/ covenant is nothing but the old recycled. It is an eternal life cycle which keeps repeating itself.

1 John 2:7-8 Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning. Again, a new commandment I write unto you, which thing is true in him and in you: because the darkness is past, and the true light now shineth.

The new is the same as the old which was from the beginning. The end is the same as the beginning. Jesus is the beginning and the end, the first and the last.

Rev 22:13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.

The debate questions are...
Do you believe the word of God will change when the "futuristic" promises are have been fulfilled ?
If not, how will those promises be relevant after fulfillment?
Does the fulfillment of the promises of God make those promises invalid to all future generations after fulfillment and does it mean no one needs to fulfill them ever again or ever obey them again ?
 

mjrhealth

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When God says His word will never change, He is reffering to His spoken word, when He speaks His word will never return void, it will always accomplish what it was set out to do, as for the bible, it is ever changing, everytime a new revision is written it has changed, what was in the beggining has not ,and will never change, but the bible will like any book, rot and decay, the words will fade as they are but ink on a page, Have you not read, what Jesus said, " the words that I SPEAK they are spirit and they are life. In the end, Gods word will still be at work but the bible like all mens books would have faded into distant memories.

In His Love
 

skyangel

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When God says His word will never change, He is reffering to His spoken word, when He speaks His word will never return void, it will always accomplish what it was set out to do, as for the bible, it is ever changing, everytime a new revision is written it has changed, what was in the beggining has not ,and will never change, but the bible will like any book, rot and decay, the words will fade as they are but ink on a page, Have you not read, what Jesus said, " the words that I SPEAK they are spirit and they are life. In the end, Gods word will still be at work but the bible like all mens books would have faded into distant memories.

In His Love

What makes you think He is only referring to the spoken Word as never changing?
If you think the written word will keep changing over time then when does it become unreliable in your opinion or do you suggest it is already unreliable?
Have you ever heard the audible spoken voice of God in any way at all?
Why do you imply that the written Word is less important than the spoken Word of God?
Do you think the words which Jesus spoke were written down incorrectly and will change over time or fade into distant memories ?
Do you not consider the bible to be a written record of the unchanging the Truth of God?
How would you know what Jesus even spoke if it had not been written down?
Jesus spoke many things which had been written and said "It is written". Jesus considered the written OT scriptures to be important enough to quote them. The words " It is written" appear 80 times in the bible.
Logically it easier to make mistakes with the spoken word as it is handed down from generation to generation in spoken form than it is to get the written word incorrect.
 

mjrhealth

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God has not and never will change, but man and his wisdom will keep changing God.

" My sheep hear My voice and will follow no other",

you read but you dont believe,

" Search the scriptures for in them you think you will find life, yet you wont come to me so I can give you eternal life".

He hasnt changed, cant you hear Him

Rev 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

So Who is your faith in .God or the bible.

I can live without the bible, but not a moment without my Lord. Jesus...

satan knows the scriptures, he even knows God, so when does all this make us better then him

In His LOve
 

Paul

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God has not and never will change, but man and his wisdom will keep changing God.

" My sheep hear My voice and will follow no other",

you read but you dont believe,

" Search the scriptures for in them you think you will find life, yet you wont come to me so I can give you eternal life".

He hasnt changed, cant you hear Him

Rev 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

So Who is your faith in .God or the bible.

I can live without the bible, but not a moment without my Lord. Jesus...

satan knows the scriptures, he even knows God, so when does all this make us better then him

In His LOve


It seems inconsistent that you are using the Word of God to try to prove the Word of God changes.

Satan made his choice in the first earth age to make his own path. He has all ready been judged and condemned. We are in this 2nd earth age, in flesh bodies, to each make their own decision to follow God or Satan.
 

mjrhealth

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There are people called scholars, whos whole life is dedicated to studying the bible and all the text they can find and yet theay are staunch atheistsm there are people who go to church , read the bible all tere lives and yet never find Jesus, there are those who study the bible yet when Jesus speaks to them they deny He did,, does God need teh bible to save anyone or to lead anyone to Him, No, but we have lowered Him to our level and limit Him so. And as it is writen in this book that you so love, you read them to find life, but yet you wont go to Jesus so you can have eternal life. Jesus gave up his life so we could have Him, not so that a book couild be written about Him.

In His LOve
 

skyangel

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God has not and never will change, but man and his wisdom will keep changing God.

" My sheep hear My voice and will follow no other",

you read but you dont believe,

" Search the scriptures for in them you think you will find life, yet you wont come to me so I can give you eternal life".

He hasnt changed, cant you hear Him

Rev 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

So Who is your faith in .God or the bible.

I can live without the bible, but not a moment without my Lord. Jesus...

satan knows the scriptures, he even knows God, so when does all this make us better then him

In His LOve

I live and abide in Jesus who is the Spirit of Truth. He is the Word. He is in me and I am in Him.
I hear and see Him clearly daily in the same way Jesus sees and hears the Father daily. We are one.
 

jiggyfly

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What makes you think He is only referring to the spoken Word as never changing?
If you think the written word will keep changing over time then when does it become unreliable in your opinion or do you suggest it is already unreliable?
Have you ever heard the audible spoken voice of God in any way at all?
Why do you imply that the written Word is less important than the spoken Word of God?
Do you think the words which Jesus spoke were written down incorrectly and will change over time or fade into distant memories ?
Do you not consider the bible to be a written record of the unchanging the Truth of God?
How would you know what Jesus even spoke if it had not been written down?
Jesus spoke many things which had been written and said "It is written". Jesus considered the written OT scriptures to be important enough to quote them. The words " It is written" appear 80 times in the bible.
Logically it easier to make mistakes with the spoken word as it is handed down from generation to generation in spoken form than it is to get the written word incorrect.

I think that the "written word" has been mistranslated, mis-copied, and misunderstood many, many times especially when it was translated from Greek to Latin which has resulted in an errant bible today.
 

skyangel

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I think that the "written word" has been mistranslated, mis-copied, and misunderstood many, many times especially when it was translated from Greek to Latin which has resulted in an errant bible today.

If the Word of God has been mistranslated and misunderstood and resulted in an errant bible full of mistakes then how can you trust it?
How can anyone claim it to be the Word of God if it is full of mistakes?
Does God make mistakes?
Can God watch over His Word to make sure it is error free and 100% correct or not?
If the Word of God is full of mistakes then how is anyone supposed to find the Truth of God ?
 

jiggyfly

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If the Word of God has been mistranslated and misunderstood and resulted in an errant bible full of mistakes then how can you trust it?
I don't.


How can anyone claim it to be the Word of God if it is full of mistakes?
Do you believe in the Mormon's bible? They claim it is the word of God. How about the Qur'an Muslims claim it is the word of God also?

Does God make mistakes?
No, He doesn't.

Can God watch over His Word to make sure it is error free and 100% correct or not?
Define "His Word".

If the Word of God is full of mistakes then how is anyone supposed to find the Truth of God ?

What do the scriptures say leads us into all truth?
 

skyangel

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Define "His Word".

The Word is God.

jiggyfly said:
What do the scriptures say leads us into all truth?

The Spirit of Truth leads people into all Truth but there is also a spirit of deception which leads people into deception and that spirit calls its deceptions truth too.

Matt 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if [it were] possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

Mark 13:22 For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if [it were] possible, even the elect.

2 Cor 11:4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or [if] ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with [him]

So my question to you is, How do you discern between the false Christ ( spirit of deception ) and the real Christ ( Spirit of Truth ) since both are being preached in this world? Can you tell the difference between The Truth and truth?
 

jiggyfly

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The Word is God.
So do you think that the bible or the scriptures are God?



The Spirit of Truth leads people into all Truth but there is also a spirit of deception which leads people into deception and that spirit calls its deceptions truth too.

Matt 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if [it were] possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

Mark 13:22 For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if [it were] possible, even the elect.

2 Cor 11:4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or [if] ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with [him]

So my question to you is, How do you discern between the false Christ ( spirit of deception ) and the real Christ ( Spirit of Truth ) since both are being preached in this world? Can you tell the difference between The Truth and truth?

It's called the spiritual gift of discerning of spirits.
smile.gif
 

skyangel

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So do you think that the bible or the scriptures are God?

The scriptures are the written word of God which even Jesus quoted.



jiggyfly said:
It's called the spiritual gift of discerning of spirits.
smile.gif

Many people who think they have the gift of discerning of Spirits cannot discern the Truth any better than the Religious Pharisees in the bible stories could discern the Truth standing right in front of them. They still call it a lie.
These people are liars and hypocrites who deceive others into believing they have the gifts of God when all they have is a forgery of those gifts.
Such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. and no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light..
 

jiggyfly

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The scriptures are the written word of God which even Jesus quoted.

Seems you are going in circles here, you said earlier that your definition of "the Word of God" is the "Word" is God. So let me ask you again, do you believe that the scriptures are God?



Many people who think they have the gift of discerning of Spirits cannot discern the Truth any better than the Religious Pharisees in the bible stories could discern the Truth standing right in front of them. They still call it a lie.
These people are liars and hypocrites who deceive others into believing they have the gifts of God when all they have is a forgery of those gifts.
Such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. and no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light..

Seems you are confused about your own question here, you did not ask how I discern the truth, you asked, well lets just quote you.
So my question to you is, How do you discern between the false Christ ( spirit of deception ) and the real Christ ( Spirit of Truth ) since both are being preached in this world?


[font="tahoma][size="3"]Are you familiar with the gift of discerning of spirits and it's dynamics if so can you explain your opinion of it?[/size][/font]
 

skyangel

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Seems you are going in circles here, you said earlier that your definition of "the Word of God" is the "Word" is God. So let me ask you again, do you believe that the scriptures are God?

God is ALL and IN ALL..( Eph 4:6 )
God is far more than just the written word but the written word is part of Him, as is the spoken word of Truth as is the Spirit of Truth.

[font="tahoma] [/font][/color]
[color="#5d5d5d"][font="tahoma] [/font][/color][quote="jiggyfly"]
[font="tahoma][size="3"]Are you familiar with the gift of discerning of spirits and it's dynamics if so can you explain your opinion of it?[/size][/font]
[/quote]

1 John 4:6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.
 

jiggyfly

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God is ALL and IN ALL..( Eph 4:6 )
God is far more than just the written word but the written word is part of Him, as is the spoken word of Truth as is the Spirit of Truth.
[font="tahoma] [/font][/color][color="#5d5d5d"][font="tahoma] [/font][/color][/quote]


I don't believe that the bible is part of the context here when Paul says that God is all and in all, the topic is the ekklesia, the body of Christ.
While I believe that the written word ( the scriptures in original texts) were inspired by God, I don't think they are a part of Him making up His essence. I am very curious to know if you have based this on scripture and if you have could you please list them.

I also see a difference between the written word ( the original texts) and the bible ( a biased translation of the copies of the original texts)



[quote]1 John 4:6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.[/quote]

While this is not the spiritual gift of discerning of Spirits it is a good scripture and was going to be one of the scriptures I used to answer your second question(bolded) here.
[color=#5D5D5D][font=tahoma][quote]So my question to you is, How do you discern between the false Christ ( spirit of deception ) and the real Christ ( Spirit of Truth ) since both are being preached in this world?[b] Can you tell the difference between The Truth and truth?[/b][/quote][/font][/color]
[font="tahoma][color="#5D5D5D"]This is dealing with people here and knowing which spirit is in control of them.
[/font]
[font="tahoma][color="#5D5D5D"]
[/color][/font]
[font="tahoma][color="#5D5D5D"]If the scriptures are part of God and the pharisees knew the scriptures then that would mean that the pharisees knew God, but Jesus said they didn't know God. [/color][/font]
[font="tahoma][color="#5D5D5D"]
[/color][/font]
[font="tahoma][color="#5D5D5D"]Logos of God is Jesus and the scriptures are a written testimony of Logos , but that doesn't make the scriptures themselves Logos. See this is the same kind of mistake that the pharisees were making, they thought that the scriptures held or contained eternal life, yet the scriptures testified that it was Jesus the Christ that contained eternal life.[/color][/font]
[font="tahoma][color="#5D5D5D"]
[/color][/font]
[font="tahoma][color="#5D5D5D"]"You search the Scriptures because you believe they give you eternal life. But the Scriptures point to me! John 5:39[/color][/font]
[font="tahoma][color="#5D5D5D"]I am happy that we have the scriptures and all the study tools available today, but I am more thankful that we have HolySpirit with us to teach, guide and lead. One is the teacher and the other is a textbook, and both are witnesses of the Christ, but some seem to get them confused with each other.[/color][/font]
[font="tahoma][color="#5D5D5D"]
[/color][/font]
[font="'trebuchet ms"]
[/font]

 

skyangel

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I don't believe that the bible is part of the context here when Paul says that God is all and in all, the topic is the ekklesia, the body of Christ.
While I believe that the written word ( the scriptures in original texts) were inspired by God, I don't think they are a part of Him making up His essence. I am very curious to know if you have based this on scripture and if you have could you please list them.

I also see a difference between the written word ( the original texts) and the bible ( a biased translation of the copies of the original texts)

It makes no difference what you or me or anyone else believes about God or how anyone divides Him and what they include in God and what they leave out of God . He is what He is in spite of that anyone believes.
If the bible is not part of God, and is some book full of mistakes how can the written word lead anyone to Christ in the first place?
I base the importance of the written word on the words of Jesus where He often quoted "It is written" Jesus obviously felt the written word was a very important part of God.
see " It is written" or "I have written" in the following scriptures... Matt 4:4, Luke 4:4, John 15:25, Heb 13:22, 1 John 2:14.
and these scriptures where God commanded men to write His words in a book.....
Ex. 17:14, Num 5:23, Deut 17: 18, Isaiah 30: 8, Jer 30: 2, Jer 36:2, Rev 1:11.

God commanded that His words be written in a book. That makes the bible the written words of God which are very much a part of God just as my written words are very much a part of me and yours a part of you.
 

skyangel

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[font="tahoma][color="#5d5d5d"]If the scriptures are part of God and the pharisees knew the scriptures then that would mean that the pharisees knew God, but Jesus said they didn't know God. [/color][/font]
[font="tahoma] [/font]
[font="tahoma][color="#5d5d5d"]Logos of God is Jesus and the scriptures are a written testimony of Logos , but that doesn't make the scriptures themselves Logos. See this is the same kind of mistake that the pharisees were making, they thought that the scriptures held or contained eternal life, yet the scriptures testified that it was Jesus the Christ that contained eternal life.[/color][/font]
[font="tahoma] [/font]
[font="tahoma][color="#5d5d5d"]"You search the Scriptures because you believe they give you eternal life. But the Scriptures point to me! John 5:39[/color][/font]
[font="tahoma][color="#5d5d5d"]I am happy that we have the scriptures and all the study tools available today, but I am more thankful that we have HolySpirit with us to teach, guide and lead. One is the teacher and the other is a textbook, and both are witnesses of the Christ, but some seem to get them confused with each other.[/color][/font]
[font="tahoma][color="#5d5d5d"]


The same thing applies today. Many people know the scriptures but do not know God in spite of knowing the scriptures. Those who don't even believe the scriptures are part of God are rejecting the written word so how can that word then bring them to Christ when they keep doubting it? To suggest that the bible is a text book full of errors is to suggest the Holy Spirit uses flawed material to bring people to Christ. Do you really think the Lord would bring people to Himself with flawed material? The flaw is in your carnal minded thinking. Those who think like you follow the false Christ and pretend to be something they are not.

[/color][/font]1 John 4:6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

This scripture in 1John 4:6 applies to those who preach the Truth as well as to those who preach the lies which they call truth.. Liars will listen to and believe liars who preach and teach false doctrines which they call truth. They are led by a spirit which pretends to be the Holy Spirit but is far from holy. Those who know the TRUTH and abide in Him can tell the difference between these liars and the real Holy Spirit as easily as they can tell the difference between night and day. False prophets and false teachers pretend to be leading people to Christ through the word but they lead people to a false Christ and they preach another Jesus who is not the one the bible describes but one the worldly religions describe. The Jesus preached by the false teachers is a weak Jesus who cannot and does not set them free from sin since they are all still living in sin and working iniquity as they deceive others into believing they are filled with the Holy Spirit when they are not filled with the real Spirit of God at all but rather filled with some lukewarm fake version of it.. They make the Lord sick.


Those who abide in the Truth can tell the difference between Truth and truth as easily as Jesus can. They are not fooled by the forgeries of the devil.
I am the Truth.
 

jiggyfly

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The same thing applies today. Many people know the scriptures but do not know God in spite of knowing the scriptures. Those who don't even believe the scriptures are part of God are rejecting the written word so how can that word then bring them to Christ when they keep doubting it? To suggest that the bible is a text book full of errors is to suggest the Holy Spirit uses flawed material to bring people to Christ. Do you really think the Lord would bring people to Himself with flawed material? The flaw is in your carnal minded thinking. Those who think like you follow the false Christ and pretend to be something they are not.

[/color][/color][/font]1 John 4:6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

This scripture in 1John 4:6 applies to those who preach the Truth as well as to those who preach the lies which they call truth.. Liars will listen to and believe liars who preach and teach false doctrines which they call truth. They are led by a spirit which pretends to be the Holy Spirit but is far from holy. Those who know the TRUTH and abide in Him can tell the difference between these liars and the real Holy Spirit as easily as they can tell the difference between night and day. False prophets and false teachers pretend to be leading people to Christ through the word but they lead people to a false Christ and they preach another Jesus who is not the one the bible describes but one the worldly religions describe. The Jesus preached by the false teachers is a weak Jesus who cannot and does not set them free from sin since they are all still living in sin and working iniquity as they deceive others into believing they are filled with the Holy Spirit when they are not filled with the real Spirit of God at all but rather filled with some lukewarm fake version of it.. They make the Lord sick.


Those who abide in the Truth can tell the difference between Truth and truth as easily as Jesus can. They are not fooled by the forgeries of the devil.
I am the Truth.

Not going to continue debating with you on this SA, now you seem to struggle making distinctions between the written word (scripture) and the Word (Jesus) but one day you will. God bless
smile.gif
 

skyangel

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Not going to continue debating with you on this SA, now you seem to struggle making distinctions between the written word (scripture) and the Word (Jesus) but one day you will. God bless
smile.gif

You are the one who is obviously struggling to make a distinction between the real Jesus and the fake one. The Truth can set you free if you will stop denying and rejecting Him.