No authority!

theefaith · Mar 17, 2021

Wrangler said:
Wrong. Divine order is not man's order. It is spiritual flowering (sowing & reaping) to the max.

Paul wrote about being all things to all people so that some may be saved. Do you believe this?

There are some 700M Protestants out there. Saved, despite the corrupt man-made institution you serve. Even if you assert it is not corrupt, do you rejoice in their salvation or do you condemn them for not going through your team?

no one is saved and living matt 24:13

there is only one savior, do you say it about the Jews, Muslims, Hindu’s etc

I don’t have a problem with it

there is only one mediator and only one covenant

I did not make the rules Christ did

Christ and his church are one acts 22:9

theefaith · Mar 17, 2021

1 Pet 3:20
Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
(Ark of Noah a type of the church, member of Christ and his church and salvation by baptism!)
(Outside the ark all died and outside the church there is no salvation!)

theefaith · Mar 17, 2021

Wrangler said:
Wrong. Divine order is not man's order. It is spiritual flowering (sowing & reaping) to the max.

Paul wrote about being all things to all people so that some may be saved. Do you believe this?

There are some 700M Protestants out there. Saved, despite the corrupt man-made institution you serve. Even if you assert it is not corrupt, do you rejoice in their salvation or do you condemn them for not going through your team?

lk 2: 21 And when eight days were accomplished for the circumcising of the child, his name was called Jesus, which was so named of the angel before he was conceived in the womb.

circumcision was the sign of initiation into the Mosaic covenant

what is the sign of initiation of the new and eternal covenant?

christian sacrament of baptism

BreadOfLife · Mar 17, 2021

justbyfaith said:
If the general believer is a priest, then he can function as a priest.
Case closed.

Oh, REALLY??

A preist is a MEDIATOR.
YOU and the other anti-Catholics here have argued that Jesus is our ONLY mediator so there is NO NEED for priests.

Soooo - what happened to that argument, hmmmmm?

justbyfaith said:
How can you say that about him when all he even did right there was quote an entire passage and then make a simple, accurate commentary on what it meant?

Because the text shows that the main trust of Paul's message here was about recolciliation and forgiveness.
Evangelization was simpy the WAY he was conveyng that message.

BreadOfLife · Mar 17, 2021

Ferris Bueller said:
Don't evade the issue here. Peter would not allow a person to respect his authority that way. He would say, "don't demean yourself that way. I am but a man myself". Let's be honest here, that is what the Biblical record shows us about his character.

WRONG.

Peter wouldn't allow somebody to worshp him
Showng respect and affection is not "worship" - ANY MORE than showing it to your wife pr parents would be sonsidered "worship".

Face it - you LOST this argument several posts back and can't seem to let go . . .

theefaith · Mar 17, 2021

BreadOfLife said:
WRONG.

Peter wouldn't allow somebody to worshp him
Showng respect and affection is not "worship" - ANY MORE than showing it to your wife pr parents would be sonsidered "worship".

Face it - you LOST this argument several posts back and can't seem to let go . . .

you can see peters authority in acts 5
But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession,

ask them if he has any authority

BreadOfLife · Mar 17, 2021

Ferris Bueller said:
"Persuasion", "ministry", "message", "appeal"........2 Corinthians 5:11-21 is about evangelism. But you're casting the Catholic shadow of the hierarchy's exclusive power to forgive sin onto it, as if the common man can't get to God without it. That is the exact hinderance Christ himself removed when he laid aside the mortal priesthood and replaced it with his own eternal and immortal Priesthood. We're not questioning the power to forgive sin. We all have that. We're challenging the Catholic church's assertion that you can't get to God except through their priesthood.

WRONG.

2 Cor. 5:18-20:
“And all this is from God, who has reconciled us to himself through Christ and given US the ministry of reconciliation, namely, God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting their trespasses against them and entrusting to US the message of reconciliation. So WE are ambassadors for Christ, as if God were appealing through US. We implore you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God.”

In 2 Cor. 2:10, he states, “Whomever you forgive anything, so do I. For indeed what I have forgiven, if I have forgiven anything, has been for you in the presence (person) of Christ”

The CRUX of Paul's point here is Forgiveness through the Ministry of Reconciliation which was entrusted to the clergy ("US", "WE") in John 20:21-23, Matt. 16:18-19 and Matt. 18:15-18.

BreadOfLife · Mar 17, 2021

Ferris Bueller said:
Hypocrisy about what? I'm the one that is free of self imposed doctrinal and worship stipulations and instead focus on godly character, the thing that counts. Your religious system is what focuses on the outer appearances and methodology of religion thinking that's what it means to please God and receive his approval, oblivious, it seems, to what really matters. That's the very definition of the hypocritical Pharisee. I'm not the one here defending that hypocritical system of religion.

The hypocrisy that you can spread your lies faster than a virus - and STILL have the nerve to sanctimoniously condemn others.

Just like a Pharisee . . .

BreadOfLife · Mar 17, 2021

Taken said:
Maybe a Catholic needs to tell Biden that.

Don't blame ME for that guy.
I voted for Trump.

I thought that was ONE place you and I agreed on.

BreadOfLife · Mar 17, 2021

Taken said:
This forum is not in chaos.
How Jesus is with His Church, is not a mystery, and is revealed Expressly in;

John 16:
[7] Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

Spouting fallacies.
Nothing whatsoever indicated I forgot Jesus' Church is His Body.

Jesus is ALSO with us in our neighbor (Matt. 25:31-46).
AND, He's with us in His mystical Body, the Church (Col 1:18) - which is the FULLNESS of Him (Eph. 1:22-23).

Not exactly sure why YOU would consider this as "spouting fallacies" . . .

BreadOfLife · Mar 17, 2021

justbyfaith said:
Then you also basically agree with his statement here.
How then does he not understand the word of God?

Listen - if you're going to horn in on a conversation - then get your facts straight.
He was implying that thee verses were about "evangelization" and NOT the Ministry of Reconciliation.

The text is explicit here that it is talking about the forgiveness of sins through the Ministry of Reconciliation.
So, pay attention . . .

Wrangler · Mar 17, 2021

theefaith said:
lk 2: 21 And when eight days were accomplished for the circumcising of the child, his name was called Jesus, which was so named of the angel before he was conceived in the womb.

circumcision was the sign of initiation into the Mosaic covenant

what is the sign of initiation of the new and eternal covenant?

christian sacrament of baptism

A non-responsive reply to my yes or no question; do you rejoice in their salvation or do you condemn them for not going through your team?

Wrangler · Mar 17, 2021

BreadOfLife said:
A preist is a MEDIATOR.
YOU and the other anti-Catholics here have argued that Jesus is our ONLY mediator so there is NO NEED for priests.

Wrong! The job of a prophet is to bring the Word of God to the people. The job of a priest is to bring people to God, usually through sacrificial and purification rituals.

Priests are NOT mediators between us and God. They may mediate between people but in no way to they take the place of Christ. Regarding bringing people to God, nobody does it better than our High Priest, the Son of God. I suppose you intended your post to be controversial or provocative. Congratulations.

Wrangler · Mar 17, 2021

BreadOfLife said:
WRONG.

Peter wouldn't allow somebody to worshp him
Showng respect and affection is not "worship"

Wrong! Like so much, you got worship wrong. (God is not the only one who is worshipped as trinitarians allege.) The Bible even says so in 1 Kings 1:16. From Definition of WORSHIP

Definition of worship
(Entry 1 of 2)

transitive verb

1: to honor or show reverence for as a divine being or supernatural power
2: to regard with great or extravagant respect, honor, or devotion

Definition of worship (Entry 2 of 2)

1: reverence offered a divine being or supernatural poweralso : an act of expressing such reverence
2: a form of religious practice with its creed and ritual
3: extravagant respect or admiration for or devotion to an object of esteem worship of the dollar
4chiefly British : a person of importance —used as a title for various officials (such as magistrates and some mayors)

Bethsabee bowed herself, and worshipped the king. And the king said to her: What is thy will?
1 Kings 1:16 (Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition)

theefaith · Mar 17, 2021

Wrangler said:
A non-responsive reply to my yes or no question; do you rejoice in their salvation or do you condemn them for not going through your team?

I don’t have a team Christ founded the church for salvation not I

theefaith · Mar 17, 2021

But they are not saved

Wrangler · Mar 17, 2021

I'm sure we'll both be happier going our separate ways.

(I'll add you to my ignore list)

Go in peace.

theefaith · Mar 17, 2021

Matt 24:13

Romans 13:11
And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

justbyfaith · Mar 17, 2021

BreadOfLife said:
Oh, REALLY??

A preist is a MEDIATOR.
YOU and the other anti-Catholics here have argued that Jesus is our ONLY mediator so there is NO NEED for priests.

Soooo - what happened to that argument, hmmmmm?

It is still inherent in 1 Timothy 2:5. Jesus is the only go-between.

We are the body of Christ so we, as being a part of Him, can also go to the unbelieving on behalf of Christ, in evangelism, and to Christ on behalf of others, in making intercession.

But people do not get to God by going through us.

While that is true of Christ; that they can get to the Father by going through Christ

Certainly not Mary or the saints.

BreadOfLife said:
He was implying that thee verses were about "evangelization" and NOT the Ministry of Reconciliation.

They are one and the same.

theefaith · Mar 17, 2021

Refers to peter Matt 16:18-19

18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

I will give unto thee (peter)
Whatsoever thou (Peter)
Keys are given to Peter

Keys of authority! Matt 16:18

Moral authority:
(Teaching)
Necessity of being taught by Christ:
Two edge sword: defining truth and condemning errors.

Jurisdictional authority:
(Governing / administering)
Necessity of Peter and the apostles and their successors to govern the holy church.

Spiritual authority:
(Life of Grace)
Sanctifying thru the mass and Sacraments

No authority!

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