Grailhunter
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My answer...copy and pasted here.....I am in the whole world...not necessarily part of it. That is my answer. A person my travel the whole world...He maybe very social...but yet not condone the evils of the world.
Calvinism vs. Arminianism
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My answer...copy and pasted here.....I am in the whole world...not necessarily part of it. That is my answer. A person my travel the whole world...He maybe very social...but yet not condone the evils of the world.
Cooper
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You are changing the nature of the loving, caring God into a monster. That is not my God. Jesus the Good Shepherd who cares for his flock is the image of the Father. We know the Father through the Son and in Him there is no sin. I admit God will punish the wicked with flood, pestilence, fire and brimstone etc., but you seem to be comparing your God to Hitler. Well fair enough, I have to admit that is my impression of the Old Testament God as well, so there you are, have it your way, the Old Testament God is an evil warmongering monster who creates evil. You said it. I could never worship an evil creating monster. Neither could I ever love him with all my heart. THAT IS NOT MY GOD. Jesus said the God of the Jews is the devil, and they crucified him, it fits. You have done a good job of confirming my opinion. I hope you are happy. I'm done.
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I already said we all remain in the physical world that is under the sway of wickedness. Either way, " world" still includes everyone and everything. You just create an issue that's not there.
Since you wrote "not necessarily part of it" and you had before you the question that presented "the whole world" in the context of "the whole world lies in the evil one" in 1 John 5:19, then you just attempted to say that you do not lie in the evil one.
Since you wrote "not necessarily part of it", then you just admitted that "the whole world" does not always mean every person everywhere.
With it now established that you exclude yourself from "the whole world" in 1 John 5:19, this means that the use of "world" can Biblically indicate a population which includes occurrences of "world" being a population set apart from another population.
For example, the "world" in 1 John 5:19 is the population of persons under the wrath of God, and said population is NOT the population of persons currently saved by Jesus from the wrath of God.
Now, this needs to be applied to Lord Jesus' words of "God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life" (John 3:16).
To understand the population associated with "world" that Jesus uses, we must start with "eternal life" and move back through the statement.
In John 3:16, eternal life is exclusively for believers in Jesus.
In John 3:16, believers in Jesus are persons to whom Jesus referred with the word "believes".
In John 3:16, "world" includes persons that currently do "believes" in Jesus as well as includes persons that do not currently yet will in the future "believes" in Jesus.
In John 3:16, the "world" is the population of persons who prior to death "believes" in Jesus.
In John 3:16, the "world" is not every person everywhere.
In John 3:16, the "believes" is "the work of God" that a person believe in Jesus whom the Father has sent (John 6:29).
Lord Jesus' words as recorded in John 6:29 make the "believes" recorded in John 3:16 "the work of God"; therefore, God causes persons to believe in Jesus.
Man cannot save himself, not by a choice toward Jesus, not by the work of a decision, nothing.
All glory for man's salvation is God's, and God's alone! God is magnificent whether God save anyone or not, but by God's grace, God saves persons!
The One True God is the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow (Malachi 3:6, Revelation 1:8). The One True God is Father, Son, and Spirit.
Jesus, Lord and God (John 20:28), is the Word of God (John 1:14).
The Word of God uses the first person of "I" in the passage to speak about God in "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I YHWH do all these things" (Isaiah 45:7).
The Word of God says "I form the light" (Isaiah 45:7, "God is light" [1 John 1:5]).
The Word of God says God creates darkness (Isaiah 45:7).
The Word of God says God makes peace (Isaiah 45:7).
The Word of God says God creates evil (Isaiah 45:7).
Jesus, being God, does all these things (Isaiah 45:7).
Now, you subtract from the Word of God because you say the there is a different god for the first 39 books of the Bible from the god of the final 27 books of the Bible.
In this post, I point out where you subtracted from the Word of God, for you wrote, "it is the tree of KNOWLEDGE.", so when you stopped your sentence, you subtracted the full identification of the "the tree of the knowledge of good and evil". This is where I was pointing out that the Hebrew word "ra" is translated to "evil" in Genesis 2:9, Genesis 2:17, and Isaiah 45:7, so it appears you where trying to somehow subtract from the Word of God there.
You wrote "God does not create evil" (link to your post in this thread) which demonstrates your proclivity to subtract from the Word of God, such as where the Word of God states "I" "create evil" (Isaiah 45:7), and this has been shown to you earlier in this thread.
A child of God DOES NOT CALL GOD A LIAR.
People that subtract from the Word of God are liars, and it is written of liars "nothing unclean, and no one who practices abomination and lying, shall ever come into" the holy city (Revelation 21:27).
The One True God makes peace (Isaiah 45:7), and the One True God graciously makes peace with the children of God.
The Apostle John did not write just "under the sway" when he wrote "the whole world lies in the evil one" (1 John 5:19).
The Apostle John potently wrote "lies in" as in "abides inside" and "lives according to" and "is a part of".
You claim to be a Christian, but you claim that you are part of "the whole world" which makes you lie in the evil one, see 1 John 5:19.
No Christian lies in the evil one nor wickedness, because the Apostle John wrote "you have overcome the evil one" (1 John 2:13) which that "you" referring to Christians.
Your word "wickedness" is more accurately "wicked one" which is more accurately "evil one" as shown in this post.
This is a huge issue because you fail to acknowledge that the use of "world" Biblically indicates a population which includes occurrences of "world" being a population set apart from another population.
As long as you say that you are part of "the whole world", then you claim to be in the place of exclusively Non-Christians which is to lie in the evil one (1 John 5:19).
Since you wrote "not of it" and you had before you the question that presented "the whole world" in the context of "the whole world lies in the evil one" in 1 John 5:19, then you just attempted to say that you do not lie in the evil one.
Since you wrote "not of it", then you just admitted that "the whole world" does not always mean every person everywhere.
With it now established that you exclude yourself from "the whole world" in 1 John 5:19, this means that the use of "world" can Biblically indicate a population which includes occurrences of "world" being a population set apart from another population.
For example, the "world" in 1 John 5:19 is the population of persons under the wrath of God, and said population is NOT the population of persons currently saved by Jesus from the wrath of God.
Now, this needs to be applied to Lord Jesus' words of "God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life" (John 3:16).
To understand the population associated with "world" that Jesus uses, we must start with "eternal life" and move back through the statement.
In John 3:16, eternal life is exclusively for believers in Jesus.
In John 3:16, believers in Jesus are persons to whom Jesus referred with the word "believes".
In John 3:16, "world" includes persons that currently do "believes" in Jesus as well as includes persons that do not currently yet will in the future "believes" in Jesus.
In John 3:16, the "world" is the population of persons who prior to death "believes" in Jesus.
In John 3:16, the "world" is not every person everywhere.
In John 3:16, the "believes" is "the work of God" that a person believe in Jesus whom the Father has sent (John 6:29).
Lord Jesus' words as recorded in John 6:29 make the "believes" recorded in John 3:16 "the work of God"; therefore, God causes persons to believe in Jesus.
Man cannot save himself, not by a choice toward Jesus, not by the work of a decision, nothing.
All glory for man's salvation is God's, and God's alone! God is magnificent whether God save anyone or not, but by God's grace, God saves persons!
justbyfaith, here is the problem with an answer of "yes".
Jesus, the Word of God, says "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (John 6:29).
Jesus attributes a whole package, a whole gift, which He refers to as "that you believe in Him whom He has sent".
So, "that you believe in Him whom He has sent" is a complete thing.
I mean that the "believe in Him whom He has sent" is locked inside of the "you".
This "locking" is "the work of God".
The whole pagkage is done, finished, and complete.
There is nothing more "to be done" by the "you" with the package in order to "believe in Him whom He has sent".
By God's grace, this is why I acknowledge that all glory for man's salvation is God's, and God's alone! God is magnificent whether God save anyone or not, but by God's grace, God saves persons!
Cooper
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Grailhunter
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We are the beacon to the world....the salt of the world....the light of the world....we are not to hide the light under a basket.
Part of the world...not of the world.
Essentially this applies to the application of Christianity.
Christ sent His disciples out into the world...to be doers.
Some Christian denominations are all about what you don't do and down play the significance of what you do.
It is wrong thinking to the extreme...seriously...you need to start over again if that is what you get out of the Gospels. By you I don't mean you specifically...but it is what a lot of people get out of it.
Christ was a doer in the Gospels and after that the Apostles were doers. Now they could have setup camp and squatted and do nothing....easier not to sin that way. But that would have been no service to Christ. Same as today....you can live in a closet virtually without sin. But of no service to Christ or Christianity.
This is where the parable of the Talent comes in....and if you remember things did not turn out well for him.
Exhaust yourself in the service of Christ and the few times you will stumble, He will be there to pick you up, dust you off, and send you off smartly to continued service.
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It seems to me that the argument lends to the idea that the world is both all those who lie in the sway of the evil one and is also all those who believe in Christ.
But which one is it?
It can't be both.
If we re-translate John 3:16 we have the answer:
For God so loved all those who lie under the sway of the evil one, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
He loved the whole world; which at the time that Jesus spoke this word, consisted of everyone on the face of the earth: and He died for all those who lie under the sway of the evil one; so that they might have everlasting life if they would only believe in Him.
This means that believing in Him is the catalyst for everlasting life; and it also means that Jesus died for the whole world: everyone without exception.
His action of dying for the world did not consist of dying for those whom He already died for (because those are not under the sway of the evil one): but He died as an action that would be proactive in saving those who would believe in Him.
In other words, He died for those who are under the sway of the evil one and those who are not have already been died for through the one sacrifice of Jesus on the Cross and don't need Him to die for them again. They are not under the sway of the evil one and therefore do not need to avail themselves of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ on the Cross.
However, they still desperately need Him as branches that are connected to a vine; in order that they might draw up nourishment from the vine and cease from sinning as the result.
But which one is it?
It can't be both.
If we re-translate John 3:16 we have the answer:
For God so loved all those who lie under the sway of the evil one, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
He loved the whole world; which at the time that Jesus spoke this word, consisted of everyone on the face of the earth: and He died for all those who lie under the sway of the evil one; so that they might have everlasting life if they would only believe in Him.
This means that believing in Him is the catalyst for everlasting life; and it also means that Jesus died for the whole world: everyone without exception.
His action of dying for the world did not consist of dying for those whom He already died for (because those are not under the sway of the evil one): but He died as an action that would be proactive in saving those who would believe in Him.
In other words, He died for those who are under the sway of the evil one and those who are not have already been died for through the one sacrifice of Jesus on the Cross and don't need Him to die for them again. They are not under the sway of the evil one and therefore do not need to avail themselves of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ on the Cross.
However, they still desperately need Him as branches that are connected to a vine; in order that they might draw up nourishment from the vine and cease from sinning as the result.
You have proven yourself to be quite the subtractor from the Word of God.
In this post, I point out where you subtracted from the Word of God, for you wrote, "it is the tree of KNOWLEDGE.", so when you stopped your sentence, you subtracted the full identification of the "the tree of the knowledge of good and evil". This is where I was pointing out that the Hebrew word "ra" is translated to "evil" in Genesis 2:9, Genesis 2:17, and Isaiah 45:7, so it appears you where trying to somehow subtract from the Word of God there. I have not noticed an apology for your lie, so you call God a liar.
You wrote "God does not create evil" (link to your post in this thread) which demonstrates your proclivity to subtract from the Word of God, such as where the Word of God states "I" "create evil" (Isaiah 45:7), and this has been shown to you earlier in this thread. I have not noticed an apology for your lie, so you call God a liar.
In this post, it is shown where you say the there is a different god for the first 39 books of the Bible from the god of the final 27 books of the Bible, and I provide reference scripture of Malachi 3:6 and Revelation 1:8, and you replied without including an apology for your lie, so you call God a liar.
A child of God DOES NOT CALL GOD A LIAR.
People that subtract from the Word of God are liars, and it is written of liars "nothing unclean, and no one who practices abomination and lying, shall ever come into" the holy city (Revelation 21:27).
Grailhunter, in your prior post you wrote "I am in the whole world...not necessarily part of it".
The Apostle John recorded Lord Jesus says that Christians are in the world (John 17:11) as well as Lord Jesus says that Christians are not of the world (John 17:16).
The Son asks the Father about Christians "to keep them from the evil [one]" (John 17:15), and, of course, the Son of God loses not a one of His own persons (John 10:27-30).
This seques into "the whole world" as it is written in "the whole world lies in the evil one" (1 John 5:19).
Since the Apostle John wrote "you have overcome the evil one" (1 John 2:13), then this means that Christians do not lie in the evil one.
I asked you a question of "Do you, Grailhunter, believe that you, right now, are a part of "the whole world" as it is written in "the whole world lies in the evil one" (1 John 5:19)".
The question is very specific. If you answer "yes" or if you claim to be a part of "the whole world", then you lie in the evil one, and the evil one is not where Christians abide.
On the other hand, if you answer "no" or if you claim NOT to be a part of "the whole world", then you assert that "world" can Biblically indicate a population which includes occurrences of "world" being a population set apart from another population, in other words, "world" does not always mean every person everywhere.
Since your answer was somewhat ambiguous, then this is why I asked you the question a second time.
After you stated the same answer a second time, then I took that answer as I indicated in this post that shows that the "world" as recorded by the Apostle John (John 3:16) refers exclusively to God's chosen persons whom God works the believing in Jesus whom the Father has sent (John 6:29).
Everything, absolutely everything, about a person being saved from the wrath of God is the work of God. Repentance (Acts 11:18), belief/faith (John 6:29, Ephesians 2:8-10), and born-from-above (John 3:3-8) are all works of God in persons. Man does nothing to be saved. God does everything that saves persons.
You are trying to escape the fact that you, Renniks, include yourself as not just "in the world", but you also include yourself as "of the world".
Recall the context of my question to you, "do you, Renniks, believe that you, right now, are a part of "the whole world" as it is written in "the whole world lies in the evil one" (1 John 5:19)".
You wrote '" world" still includes everyone and everything', so you include yourself as being of the world.
The Apostle John potently wrote "lies in" as in "abides inside" and "lives according to" and "is of".
You claim to be a Christian, but you claim that you are part of "the whole world" makes it that you lie in the evil one, see 1 John 5:19.
No Christian lies in the evil, because the Apostle John wrote "you have overcome the evil one" (1 John 2:13) with that "you" referring to Christians.
As long as you say that you are part of "the whole world", then you claim to be in the place of exclusively Non-Christians which is to lie in the evil one (1 John 5:19).
First, I ask you, justbyfaith, to please either quote or tag me when you post a reply to one of my posts; otherwise, I may not find your response. Now, I include this link to the post to which I suspect that you are responding.
Since you claim to exclude yourself from lying in the evil one thus excluding yourself from the whole "world", you have established that "world" does not of necessity indicate "everyone without exception" (quoted from your post).
Prior to the event of the words recorded in John 3:16, the Apostle John records that Jesus asserts that Nathanael believes (John 1:49), so in your paragraph above you include Nathanael when you should not include Nathanael.
As I wrote to you in this post, Jesus attributes a whole package, a whole gift, everything about faith/belief that is eternal life, the finished work, which He refers to as "that you believe in Him whom He has sent". The whole package is "the work of God" (John 6:29). Jesus removed man's ability to choose/accept Jesus when He says this (John 6:29), and when He says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16), and when He says "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation).
Jesus' work of dying for the world did consist of dying for those who were EVER of the world. Every person is of the world until, and if, God sets apart a person unto salvation from the wrath of God. Lord Jesus died on the cross one time for all of the children of God (Romans 6:10).
As God had me point out previously, Jesus Christ used the word "world" to indicate God's chosen persons when the Lord says "God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that every believing in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life" (John 3:16).
Since you claim to exclude yourself from lying in the evil one thus excluding yourself from the whole "world", you have established that "world" does not of necessity indicate "everyone without exception" (quoted from your post).
Prior to the event of the words recorded in John 3:16, the Apostle John records that Jesus asserts that Nathanael believes (John 1:49), so in your paragraph above you include Nathanael when you should not include Nathanael.
As I wrote to you in this post, Jesus attributes a whole package, a whole gift, everything about faith/belief that is eternal life, the finished work, which He refers to as "that you believe in Him whom He has sent". The whole package is "the work of God" (John 6:29). Jesus removed man's ability to choose/accept Jesus when He says this (John 6:29), and when He says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16), and when He says "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation).
Jesus' work of dying for the world did consist of dying for those who were EVER of the world. Every person is of the world until, and if, God sets apart a person unto salvation from the wrath of God. Lord Jesus died on the cross one time for all of the children of God (Romans 6:10).
As God had me point out previously, Jesus Christ used the word "world" to indicate God's chosen persons when the Lord says "God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that every believing in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life" (John 3:16).
Sigh. I see you still don't get it.
“We know that we are of God, and the whole world lies under the sway of the wicked one.”
We are of God, not of the world, but we live IN the world, which is under the sway of evil. I don't see what is so hard to grasp, here. Yes, we lie in evil! I wish to God we didn't, but it surrounds us because we still are stuck here in this cursed world.
You definition of "sway" in 1 John 5:19 does not match the definition of the Greek word keimai (Strongs 2749) which is used in 1 John 5:19, nor as it is used in the other six instances of the use of keimai in the New Testament at Matthew 3:10, Luke 2:34, Luke 3:9, 2 Corinthians 3:15, 1 Timothy 1:9, Revelation 21:16.
For example, "The city is laid out as a square" (Revelation 21:16) is rather senseless using the word "sway" for "laid" as in "The city is sway as a square".
Another example, "The axe is already laid at the root of the trees" (Matthew 3:10) is rather senseless using the word "sway" for "laid" as in "The axe is already sway at the root of the trees".
The Greek word keimai (Strongs 2749) translates to "lie", so the accurate translation of 1 John 5:19 is:
"the whole world lies in the evil one".
You wrote "' world' still includes everyone and everything", so you include yourself as being of the world.
Recall the context of my question to you, "do you, Renniks, believe that you, right now, are a part of "the whole world" as it is written in "the whole world lies in the evil one" (1 John 5:19)".
The Apostle John potently wrote "lies in" as in "abides inside" and "lives according to" and "is of".
You claim to be a Christian, but you claim that you are part of "the whole world", so that means that your name, Renniks, can replace the phrase "the whole world" in 1 John 5:19 to read as follows:
"Renniks lies in the evil one".
No Christian lies in the evil one, because the Apostle John wrote "you have overcome the evil one" (1 John 2:13) with that "you" referring to Christians.
As long as you say that you are part of "the whole world", then you claim to be in the place of exclusively Non-Christians which is to lie in the evil one (1 John 5:19).
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