“Faith for Receiving Salvation”

[Netchaplain]

A possible helpful question could be, "Can one truly believe in Christ's earthly life (1Jo 4:3; 2Jo 1:7) and His resurrection (Rom 10:9) and also truly believe this alone is insufficient for salvation?

I believe while we are in an unregenerate state, we can only desire to believe in God (which I believe also comes from Him - John 6:44) because it cannot truly become practical until He imparts faith through His Spirit during regeneration, which of course must be preceded by first being aware of the Gospel essentials for faith (listed above). For it stands to reason that it requires knowing what facts are to be believed in before believing in them can become a practicality.

Once essentials are known, God is approached in prayer request for salvation and upon the Spirit entering the seeker's life (if sincere), His fruit (Gal 5:22 - not fruits, it's a singular package which includes faith, different from the ministerial gift of faith - 1 Cor 12:9) begins to take effect, as "The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God" (Rom 8:16).

The Spirit's personal "witness" or confirmation of faith in Christ is continually affirmed in us, without which such a conviction and gradual convincing of faith is not possible. This permanent consoling of the Holy Spirit is where faith not only takes root but grows--but only through Scripture.

I believe it would not be possible for the Spirit of God to be neglectful in allowing the new-born to continually walk in ignorance of Christ's sufficiency. If one truly believes in an error, e.g. that works are also required for receiving salvation, I believe it may evince one of two possibilities; a temporary unawareness of this truth, in which it's just a matter of time before the Spirit reveals it; or there was not a true desire for salvation upon request (James 4:3), thus the absence of the Spirit.

 

[williemac]

May I suggest that in order to get a true understanding of this topic, it would help if we understand just what it is that qualifies one for life. We are told that those who humble themselves will be exalted (and thus justified) and those who exalt themselves will be humbled (Luke18:10-14). We are told that God gives grace to the humble, resists the proud (James 4:6). Faith is not the qualifier for salvation. It is merely a means by which one receives a free gift from God (grace). The key is in the humility of admitting the need for mercy and acknowledging one's inability to qualify through any moral means (just one way to summarize it). This is why works are removed from the equation in regards to qualification. They are fuel for boasting.

Calvinists (hyper Calvinists) have never proven to me that man cannot understand and acknowledge his nature and cannot humble himself. The bible indicates that this is an ability that has remained intact in fallen man.

If it is true that God decided beforehand just who would be given life and who would not, then He must have used some sort of criteria through His foreknowledge. Faith is not the criteria. It is a mistake to engage in the faith argument against the Calvinist. It misses the mark. God did not flip a coin, there was no lottery, He did not play "eenie meenie" with mankind. We are told plainly what criteria He uses. He gives grace to the humble. It does not say He gives humilty by grace. Humility comes before grace. And faith does not occur independant of humility.

 

[Netchaplain]

"The key is in the humility of admitting the need for mercy and acknowledging one's inability to qualify through any moral means (just one way to summarize it)."

"God decided beforehand just who would be given life and who would not"

"Faith is not the criteria.

"And faith does not occur independant of humility."

Hi Will - It appears to me that our belief's are generally the same, esp. concerning the first line. To me, it's not so much as "God decided beforehand" as it is that He foreknew, concerning everyone's decisions.

I believe if one is in true humility, it and all God's attributes and virtues derive from the knowledge and faith in the Gospel of Christ, without which one will be deficient of true humility due to the absence of truth to compare with; which, as you've stated, are not independent of one another, because I have never seen the concept of one having faith in Christ and not be saved (post-Cross). It is through faith, not by faith that we are saved, which renders faith a mandate (fruit given by the Spirit-Gal 5:22), being the medium for the transfer of grace, which you've also indicated (Eph 2:8).

 

[Axehead]

Hi Will - It appears to me that our belief's are generally the same, esp. concerning the first line. To me, it's not so much as "God decided beforehand" as it is that He foreknew, concerning everyone's decisions.

I believe if one is in true humility, it and all God's attributes and virtues derive from the knowledge and faith in the Gospel of Christ, without which one will be deficient of true humility due to the absence of truth to compare with; which, as you've stated, are not independent of one another, because I have never seen the concept of one having faith in Christ and not be saved (post-Cross). It is through faith, not by faith that we are saved, which renders faith a mandate (fruit given by the Spirit-Gal 5:22), being the medium for the transfer of grace, which you've also indicated (Eph 2:8).

Salvation is a Person. God's attributes and virtues are derived from the Person of Christ as we abide in Him and obtain the true knowledge of the Holy.

Knowledge of Him is essential, not any other kind of knowledge (Bible facts, Greek, Hebrew, doctrine, etc). If this is what you are talking about, then I wholeheartedly agree. (Nothing wrong with Bible facts, Greek, Hebrew and doctrine if your heart is in the right place).

We only learn of Him as we do His will that He reveals to us.


Jer 9:23 Thus saith the LORD, Let not the wise man glory in his wisdom, neither let the mighty man glory in his might, let not the rich man glory in his riches:
Jer 9:24 But let him that glorieth glory in this, that he understandeth and knoweth me, that I am the LORD which exercise lovingkindness, judgment, and righteousness, in the earth: for in these things I delight, saith the LORD.

Hos 6:3 Then shall we know, if we follow on to know the LORD: his going forth is prepared as the morning; and he shall come unto us as the rain, as the latter and former rain unto the earth.

Axehead

 

[Netchaplain]

Salvation is a Person.

Amen Ax! He is a Person who can only be received through, first the knowledge of His Gospel, then proceeded with faith in His Gospel, because to have faith in His Gospel is to have faith in Him.

Good seeing you again!

 

[williemac]

Hi Will - It appears to me that our belief's are generally the same, esp. concerning the first line. To me, it's not so much as "God decided beforehand" as it is that He foreknew, concerning everyone's decisions.

I believe if one is in true humility, it and all God's attributes and virtues derive from the knowledge and faith in the Gospel of Christ, without which one will be deficient of true humility due to the absence of truth to compare with; which, as you've stated, are not independent of one another, because I have never seen the concept of one having faith in Christ and not be saved (post-Cross). It is through faith, not by faith that we are saved, which renders faith a mandate (fruit given by the Spirit-Gal 5:22), being the medium for the transfer of grace, which you've also indicated (Eph 2:8).

Thank you for your reply. Just to clarify..I did not say God decided beforehand. I said "if" He did..for the benefit of those who think He did. I don't know why you quoted me out of context. Otherwise, good reply. I agree with your comment concerning foreknowledge.

 

[meshak]

Amen Ax! He is a Person who can only be received through, first the knowledge of His Gospel, then proceeded with faith in His Gospel, because to have faith in His Gospel is to have faith in Him.

Good seeing you again!

Do you believe faith without deeds is dead, sir?

 

[Netchaplain]

Thank you for your reply. Just to clarify..I did not say God decided beforehand. I said "if" He did..for the benefit of those who think He did. I don't know why you quoted me out of context. Otherwise, good reply. I agree with your comment concerning foreknowledge.

Yes, my mistake and thanks Brother.

Do you believe faith without deeds is dead, sir?

Hi M and a very applicable inquiry. One who truly has faith in Christ will eventually evince it "by my works." This is the effect of James 2:18: "Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works."

This designs the inference that one cannot have faith without works, for those who are regenerated, God will "work in you both to will and to do of His good pleasure" (Phil 2:13).

 

[meshak]

Yes, my mistake and thanks Brother.

Hi M and a very applicable inquiry. One who truly has faith in Christ will eventually evince it "by my works." This is the effect of James 2:18: "Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works."

This designs the inference that one cannot have faith without works, for those who are regenerated, God will "work in you both to will and to do of His good pleasure" (Phil 2:13).

thank you for your reply,

Jesus says we know them by their fruit. 1) What do you think of RCC and protestant churches persecuted non-trin Christians?

2)What do you say about most trinity churches advocate the military practice of Christians? Dont you think killing your enemy is against Jesus' word of "love your enemy"?

blessings.

 

[Netchaplain]

thank you for your reply,

Jesus says we know them by their fruit. 1) What do you think of RCC and protestant churches persecuted non-trin Christians?

2)What do you say about most trinity churches advocate the military practice of Christians? Dont you think killing your enemy is against Jesus' word of "love your enemy"?

blessings.

Those who persecute or kill are unregenerate and natural men and are void of the Holy Spirit. "Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of His" (Rom 8:9).

 

[meshak]

Those who persecute or kill are unregenerate and natural men and are void of the Holy Spirit. "Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of His" (Rom 8:9).

I was talking about most trinity churches advocating their members joining the military.

 

[Netchaplain]

I was talking about most trinity churches advocating their members joining the military.

I'm not sure what you mean by trinity churches and what military?

 

[meshak]

I'm not sure what you mean by trinity churches and what military?

May I ask which denomination you are? Which country you are in?

Because it is strange if you live in the US and dont know what I am talking about.

thank you.

 

[thekingdomisathand]

Most confusion between the brethren that I have seen take place has to do with definitions.

Almost every.....single....person...I have ever met who proclaimed Christ had an incorrect defintion of faith. Christ said "I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man
cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?"

ONE of the reasons He asked if He would find it was because no one would know what it was. If you do not know what is is then you cannot use it. If you cannot use it then you cannot please God for no man may please God without it. If you do not know what it is then it is dead for if it is dead already without works then not knowing what it is does not revive it back to life.

Also understanding that an incorrect defintion of something changes the meaning of whatever is being said, every time, and therefore leading people to incorrect conclusions based upon incorrect information.

So, you say we are saved by grace. True.
So, For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it
is the gift of God. True
So, you say faith is dead without works. True.
So, I say if you have no works before death then you have no faith for it is dead and you shall have no grace either for if grace comes through faith then you must first have faith to have grace. Thus if you have no works or fruit, and fruit is shown through works, then you are not saved at all.

Well was it said "Work out your salvation with fear and trembling"

Also, if you believe that is untrue then you believe Christ and His disciples were mistaken also in this way.

Christ - You must be born of the water and the Spirit or you shall by no means enter the kingdom
Christ - You must be born again
Christ - Your righteousness must exceed the righteousness of the pharisees and the scribes or you shall by no means enter into the kingdom
Christ - You must come unto the kingdom as a child or you shall by no means enter into the kingdom
Paul - Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see
the Lord
Paul - "Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him.He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked."
Ect.

Thus you must DO these things before your death that you may enter into the kingdom and no sinner's pray shall save you for God does not listen to the prayers of the unrighteous and hates all workers of iniquity. Thus if a man says he accepts Christ and dies the very same day, that same man shall die for eternity. And if that same man lives, but does not meet the requirements of God then he shall not live, but die eternally.
John 9:31 and Psalms 5:5.

Well, I say, was it said "Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling" and if you say that I am incorrect then ask yourself if Christ or His disciples were saved then simply sat back and waited for death; reading scripture and doing nothing else all the days of their lives. And return again to 1 john 2:6 "He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked", therefore if Christ worked then you must work also or you will be found to be a liar.

Therefore you must define both grace and faith to act correctly and be saved.
I will tell you that faith is not believing, trust, dedication, ect. For if you say it is then you make the word of God to be simple and unfruitful.

Though, I will not tell you what faith is. I will tell you how to come upon the knowledge. I will not tell you because there are those amoung you who it is not meant for and therefore I am obedient in that I have not thrown my pearls amoung the swine.

So, if you are still with me, I will show you what I mean.

In order to define faith you must first ask God to help you.
Then, if you still believe that faith is belief, trust, dedication, ect. even after my rebuke of you who believe it is those things then you must take the word(s) that you believe defines faith and inject them into scripture, exhoration, and commands wherever faith is mentioned within the bible. Then as you do this you must realize that your defintion must make complete sense EVERY time faith is used or it is not the correct defintion. And it must makes sense when compared to other scripture also, for the Lord does not seek to confuse His people.

I will give you a few examples.

Romans 12:3
"For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not
to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think
soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith."

So, replace faith with the word you believe defines it.

according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of belief.
according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of dedication.
according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of trust.
according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of ect.

See if it makes sense. If it does then move to the next scripture and compare.

2 Thessalonians 3:2
"And that we may be delivered from unreasonable and wicked men: for all
men have not faith."

And that we may be delivered from unreasonable and wicked men: for all
men have not belief.
And that we may be delivered from unreasonable and wicked men: for all
men have not dedication.
And that we may be delivered from unreasonable and wicked men: for all
men have not trust.
And that we may be delivered from unreasonable and wicked men: for all
men have not ect.

See if it makes sense. If it does move on the the next scripture.
Before that though look upon belief. Do you now say that God gives men belief in mesaure? How does one go about giving belief in measure? and not all men have belief?

Revelation 14:11-12
................And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name. Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the belief of Jesus.
Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the dedication of Jesus.
Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the trust of Jesus.
Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the ect. of Jesus.

And one more.
Hebrews 12:2
"Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy
that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down
at the right hand of the throne of God."

Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our belief; who for the joy
that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down
at the right hand of the throne of God.

Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our dedication; who for the joy
that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down
at the right hand of the throne of God.

Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our trust; who for the joy
that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down
at the right hand of the throne of God.

Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our ____; who for the joy
that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down
at the right hand of the throne of God.

Do this for all scriptures concerning faith and you will understand what faith is not. Ask the Father to reveal it unto you and pay attention to Hebrews 11 and you shall know what it is.

 

[Rex]

Please lets let the old widow woman teach us something about faith, Mark 12:41-44 I'll place my two mites into the conversation and post the definition of faith.
I can't believe no one has referenced it.



Hebrews 11
New International Version (NIV)


Faith in Action
KJV Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

11 Now faith is confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see. 2 This is what the ancients were commended for.
3 By faith we understand that the universe was formed at God’s command, so that what is seen was not made out of what was visible.
4 By faith Abel brought God a better offering than Cain did. By faith he was commended as righteous, when God spoke well of his offerings. And by faith Abel still speaks, even though he is dead.
5 By
faith Enoch was taken from this life, so that he did not experience
death: “He could not be found, because God had taken him away.”[a] For before he was taken, he was commended as one who pleased God. 6 And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.
7 By faith Noah, when warned about things not yet seen, in holy fear built an ark to save his family. By his faith he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness that is in keeping with faith.
8 By faith Abraham, when called to go to a place he would later receive as his inheritance, obeyed and went, even though he did not know where he was going. 9 By faith he made his home in the promised land like a stranger in a foreign country; he lived in tents, as did Isaac and Jacob, who were heirs with him of the same promise. 10 For he was looking forward to the city with foundations, whose architect and builder is God. 11 And by faith even Sarah, who was past childbearing age, was enabled to bear children because she[b] considered him faithful who had made the promise. 12 And so from this one man, and he as good as dead, came descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and as countless as the sand on the seashore.
13 All these people were still living by faith when they died. They did not receive the things promised; they only saw them and welcomed them from a distance, admitting that they were foreigners and strangers on earth. 14 People who say such things show that they are looking for a country of their own. 15 If they had been thinking of the country they had left, they would have had opportunity to return. 16 Instead, they were longing for a better country—a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for he has prepared a city for them.
17 By faith Abraham, when God tested him, offered Isaac as a sacrifice. He who had embraced the promises was about to sacrifice his one and only son, 18 even though God had said to him, “It is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned.”[c] 19 Abraham reasoned that God could even raise the dead, and so in a manner of speaking he did receive Isaac back from death.
20 By faith Isaac blessed Jacob and Esau in regard to their future.
21 By faith Jacob, when he was dying, blessed each of Joseph’s sons, and worshiped as he leaned on the top of his staff.
22 By
faith Joseph, when his end was near, spoke about the exodus of the
Israelites from Egypt and gave instructions concerning the burial of his
bones.
23 By faith Moses’ parents hid him for three months after he was born, because they saw he was no ordinary child, and they were not afraid of the king’s edict.
24 By faith Moses, when he had grown up, refused to be known as the son of Pharaoh’s daughter. 25 He chose to be mistreated along with the people of God rather than to enjoy the fleeting pleasures of sin. 26 He regarded disgrace for the sake of Christ as of greater value than the treasures of Egypt, because he was looking ahead to his reward. 27 By faith he left Egypt, not fearing the king’s anger; he persevered because he saw him who is invisible. 28 By faith he kept the Passover and the application of blood, so that the destroyer of the firstborn would not touch the firstborn of Israel.
29 By faith the people passed through the Red Sea as on dry land; but when the Egyptians tried to do so, they were drowned.
30 By faith the walls of Jericho fell, after the army had marched around them for seven days.
31 By faith the prostitute Rahab, because she welcomed the spies, was not killed with those who were disobedient.[d]
32 And what more shall I say? I do not have time to tell about Gideon, Barak, Samson and Jephthah, about David and Samuel and the prophets, 33 who through faith conquered kingdoms, administered justice, and gained what was promised; who shut the mouths of lions, 34 quenched the fury of the flames, and escaped the edge of the sword; whose weakness was turned to strength; and who became powerful in battle and routed foreign armies. 35 Women received back their dead, raised to life again. There were others who were tortured, refusing to be released so that they might gain an even better resurrection. 36 Some faced jeers and flogging, and even chains and imprisonment. 37 They were put to death by stoning;[e] they were sawed in two; they were killed by the sword. They went about in sheepskins and goatskins, destitute, persecuted and mistreated— 38 the world was not worthy of them. They wandered in deserts and mountains, living in caves and in holes in the ground.
39 These were all commended for their faith, yet none of them received what had been promised, 40 since God had planned something better for us so that only together with us would they be made perfect.

 

[Netchaplain]

Most confusion between the brethren that I have seen take place has to do with definitions.

Almost every.....single....person...I have ever met who proclaimed Christ had an incorrect defintion of faith. Christ said "I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man
cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?"

ONE of the reasons He asked if He would find it was because no one would know what it was.

Hi TKIAH - Just wanted to point this out: "Shall He find faith on the earth?" Either in the land of Judea, the believers being removed from thence and scattered among the Gentiles and not a man, at least in Jerusalem, that had any faith in Jesus, as the Messiah.

"Or in the world at the last day: there will then be little of the doctrine of faith and less of the grace of faith and still less of the exercise of faith, particularly in prayer and especially about the coming of Christ; it will be little thought of and expected, or faith little exercised about it."-J Gill

 

[thekingdomisathand]

Hi TKIAH - Just wanted to point this out: "Shall He find faith on the earth?" Either in the land of Judea, the believers being removed from thence and scattered among the Gentiles and not a man, at least in Jerusalem, that had any faith in Jesus, as the Messiah.

"Or in the world at the last day: there will then be little of the doctrine of faith and less of the grace of faith and still less of the exercise of faith, particularly in prayer and especially about the coming of Christ; it will be little thought of and expected, or faith little exercised about it."-J Gill

Hello Net,

What does faith in Christ mean?

Please lets let the old widow woman teach us something about faith, Mark 12:41-44 I'll place my two mites into the conversation and post the definition of faith.
I can't believe no one has referenced it.

I do believe you might understand sir!

 

[Rex]

I do believe you might understand sir!

Lets just say that I've placed my two mites in the hands of God many times, Once you've been brought up this way, knowing what faith holds to those who practice it, you've clawed away at every rock set before you, you may find you've scaled a mountain. I'm addicted, I laugh at the storm, I beg to be throne into the sea for that is where the LORD may be found. I sit at his feet and wait, waiting to show you my faith or my sling.

I do believe you might understand sir!