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22 major reasons to abandon the Premil doctrine

Discussion in 'Eschatology & Prophecy Forum' started by Paul Malcomson, Jul 31, 2022.

  1. jeffweeder

    jeffweeder Active Member

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    Not a thousand year jump at all . Vengeance began to fall within the same generation, when the temple fell in 70 AD etc.


    lk 21
    20 “But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation has come near. 21 Then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains. Those who are inside the city must depart. Those who are out in the country must not enter it, 22 because these are days of vengeance, to fulfill all that is written.
     
  2. stunnedbygrace

    stunnedbygrace Well-Known Member

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    I can see a shadow at least, of what is coming on the whole world. That’s about all I can say about it. I just see it differently.
     
  3. stunnedbygrace

    stunnedbygrace Well-Known Member

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    lol! He probably has a cat…
     
  4. stunnedbygrace

    stunnedbygrace Well-Known Member

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    Mmm…He can teach me in my own language I think. He has so far anyway. But like I said, I did go to the Hebrew thingy(don’t know exactly what it’s called) to look up the rest of the verse, and it said this:
    For
    The child
    Old
    A hundred
    Years
    Shall die


    So I’m not saying no one should look at it. It did confirm for me what I already thought I saw in it.
     
  5. stunnedbygrace

    stunnedbygrace Well-Known Member

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    If you said that I would think you were wrong. I don’t see any jumping within those verses and see nothing that doesn’t fit with NHNE
     
  6. Timtofly

    Timtofly Well-Known Member

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    Not "again". "Again" is your misinterpretation.
     
  7. jeffweeder

    jeffweeder Active Member

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    Thankyou.
    Duet 28 may be helpful and apply to the vengeance that has come upon Israel since 70AD.
     
  8. Timtofly

    Timtofly Well-Known Member

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    This is slander. No one teaches God rewards the wicked. Do you not understand Revelation 20:4?
     
  9. stunnedbygrace

    stunnedbygrace Well-Known Member

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    to say the army is like the sand of the sea (to me) is to say it’s a pretty large army.
     
  10. jeffweeder

    jeffweeder Active Member

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    Premill teaches that Tim , as the unrepentant somehow remain alive at the Lords coming for a 1000 years. They are not of the Faith to be glorified at his coming , yet they do not perish but survive for a thousand years =ridiculous.
    Repent or perish is the Lords teaching , yet premill introduces some middle ground at his coming.:r.u.n:
     
  11. Timtofly

    Timtofly Well-Known Member

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    I understand that you think the Lion and wolf get converted and become the church. But the verse never claims they are converted. The symbolism is peace on earth, not the whole earth was converted. That borders on universalism.

    Yet you reject that at the Second Coming this sheep fold is recognized to then enjoy a 1,000 year reign. After being lost for thousands of years, you give them no time to then enjoy earth as it should be.
     
  12. Timtofly

    Timtofly Well-Known Member

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    Just because 12 does not follow 11 chronologically, does not mean every other single chapter in Revelation does that. You are basing your whole chronology on chapters 11 and 12. Because every time a poster states chronology, all you have to offer is: "Well chapter 11 and 12 don't". Has it not occured to you that chapter 12 is the only chapter that goes back to the birth of Jesus?
     
  13. Timtofly

    Timtofly Well-Known Member

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    You have to reinterpret your paradigm if you claim these verses are future. You declare all authority, but oops, there is that 7th Trumpet declaration that does not fit all authority until a certain point in time. So those verses are not challenging the authority of Christ, it is referring to the subjection of all kingdoms to that authority. Still does not negate that Jesus will rule over all nations from Jerusalem. That is God's Word that you toss into the scrap bin. Jesus as King will set up a throne in current Jerusalem, and you will never be able to refute that point. The 7th Trumpet is declaring that all kingdoms are now fully submitted. If you think they are currently submitted, how, if many are in open rebellion? Has it stopped raining for months in every nation?
     
  14. Timtofly

    Timtofly Well-Known Member

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    Also the result of what happened to the dragon that was with the FP and the beast. The symbolism is wrapped up about the dragon, by declaring, that old serpent, the devil, and Satan. The other two were cast into the LOF, but Satan was bound up allowed to not do a single thing for another 1,000 years. Do you really think Satan is thrown into the LOF at the same time as the other two?
     
  15. Marty fox

    Marty fox Well-Known Member

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    I have never said that all the lions wolves ect are converted only some of them are thus they are apart of the church

    Why enjoy the thousand years to have it all fall apart at the end when we will enjoy eternity forever?
     
    jeffweeder likes this.
  16. Timtofly

    Timtofly Well-Known Member

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    No it does not. The reigning is after the Second Coming in this verse.

    1. The Cross, the OT firstfruits.

    2. The Second Coming the church alive on earth.

    3. Then the end, AFTER Jesus the King has ruled, after the Second Coming for 1,000 years. These points are not about the rule and reign of Christ. It is about humanity gathered and presented to God.

    There is literally 1992 years between the Cross and the Second Coming. John in Revelation 20 gives us the time frame of between the Second Coming and the end: 1,000 years.

    If you reject the 1,000 years then you have to reject the 1992 years also implied in that verse.

    Your eschatological bias denies any time relative to those verses. Jesus hands back a full kingdom with billions of souls and a perfect creation. Explain that in your "everything burned to a crisp" scenario. Obviously a new heaven and earth have to be created to hand back to God, not a burnt offering sin sacrifice. If you acknowledge the new heaven and earth part, why not a 1,000 year reign with 10's of billions of humans?

    You deny any OT firstfruits. You only have those raptured, and you deny a 1,000 year reign. You have literally only millions of humans, while Paul explains all of the OT redeemed were presented to God in 30AD, millions at the Second Coming, and 10's of billions at the end.
     
  17. Marty fox

    Marty fox Well-Known Member

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    This is talking about the new heaven and new earth it’s our future heaven that’s the “it” in verse 20.

    There’s no more death in it because they are in heaven. The ones that die are considered acursed because they spiritually died and are in hell.

    Do you see how the verse you left out verse 17 is the exact same event as revelation 21:1?
     
  18. Paul Malcomson

    Paul Malcomson Active Member

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    Check posts #971 and #978 and you will see how I addressed all that. You are obviously not diligently engaging in the discussion.
     
  19. Paul Malcomson

    Paul Malcomson Active Member

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    Yes, according to your fixated Premil approach to the inspired text. Not according to sound biblical hermeneutics. You add unto Scripture forcing some imaginary future millennium into the sacred text where it does not belong. This is typical Premil eisegesis. That is because it has no corroboration for its mistaken interpretation of Revelation 20 and there is nothing in Revelation 20 that correlates with this.
     
  20. Paul Malcomson

    Paul Malcomson Active Member

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    With this type of ad-hoc approach to Bible interpretation you could make the Bible say anything you wish. It is so wrong!
     
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