23 major reasons to reject the Premil doctrine!

[Timtofly]

He cannot even show any justification for a gap-theory.

A gap theory?

Gabriel put a gap in there:

"Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times."

Jesus was born after the 69th week. Then was cut off. Where in Daniel 9 does it state there has to be a continous 70 weeks without interruption?

Jesus "cut off" is an interruption.

 

[Truth7t7]

Second coming descriptions begin in Matthew 24:29.

There's no "denying a future second coming" except in your imagination.

You will closely note the statement was made (Full Preterist) deny a future second coming, yes you use "diversion" from the fact that you're (Partial Preterist) following the Roman Catholic Jesuit (Luis De Alcasar)

Yes I will continue to use the correct phrase "Reformed Preterist Eschatology"

Jesus Is The Lord

 

[covenantee]

You believe and teach a majority of the Olivet discourse has taken place, namely Daniel's AOD and The Great Tribulation, your (Partial Preterist) in your eschatology, (Full Preterist) deny a future second coming

You deny that Luke knew the identity of the AOD.

You deny that Christ knew that the destruction of His old covenant nation would be great tribulation.

Yes, it's that simple indeed.

 

[covenantee]

You will closely note the statement was made (Full Preterist) deny a future second coming, yes you use "diversion" from the fact that you're (Partial Preterist) following the Roman Catholic Jesuit (Luis De Alcasar)

When was Matthew 24:16 fulfilled?

 

[Truth7t7]

A gap theory?

Gabriel put a gap in there:

"Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times."

Jesus was born after the 69th week. Then was cut off. Where in Daniel 9 does it state there has to be a continous 70 weeks without interruption?

Jesus "cut off" is an interruption.

Daniel 9:24-27, Seventy Literal Weeks Explained "Future"?

Daniel's 70 weeks are literal 7 day periods, or 490 literal days.

If Daniel meant 490 years he would have written

(Four Hundred Ninety Years)

Daniel had no restrictions in "Writing" exact numerology as seen below.

Daniel 6:1KJV
It pleased Darius to set over the kingdom an hundred and twenty princes, which should be over the whole kingdom;

Daniel 8:14KJV
And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.

Daniel 12:11KJV
And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

Below in Daniel 10:2-3 we see just another example of Daniel's literal weeks, as Daniel mourned and fasted for 3 literal weeks or 21 days.

Daniel 10:2-3KJV
2 In those days I Daniel was mourning three full weeks.
3 I ate no pleasant bread, neither came flesh nor wine in my mouth, neither did I anoint myself at all, till three whole weeks were fulfilled.

Below in Daniel 9:24-27 we see 70 literal "Future" weeks or 490 days.

When the "Future" call/commandment goes out in Jerusalem to build unto the Jewish Meshiach/Messiah that they wait for (They Denied Jesus Christ) this will start the 7 week period in preparing to build.

62 literal weeks will be in building, and Meshiach/Messiah will be cut off by the armies surrounding Jerusalem, this stops the building.

The 70th literal week will see (The Antichrist) revealed in making a covenant, and in the middle of this literal week he proclaims to be Meshiach/Messiah God to the Jews, and Jesus returned to the apostate church, to start a Millennium on earth.

The 3.5 year tribulation starts at this time.

Daniel 9:24-27KJV
24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

So you say and wish, for some reason.

I don't have a perspective. I just quote Scripture and say it means what it says.

That's a meaningless thing to say since we all believe that it means what it says. But, the fact of the matter is that it's not always literal. You're talking as if it is, which is nonsense. You are a premillennialist whether you realize it or not, so that's why I was talking about it from that perspective.

I don't argue with carnal philosophy of those that don't believe plain words of Scripture.

LOL. Plain words of scripture. Really? What does that even mean? That the words in scripture are always plain and literal? Should we be looking out for a literal beast with seven literal heads and ten literal horns? Give me a break with this nonsense.

In the resurrection therefore, when they shall rise, whose wife shall she be of them? for the seven had her to wife.

The physical kingdom of Christ on earth will expire after a thousand years. His eternal reign never expires.

If He was going to have a physical kingdom on earth for a thousand years, as you believe, then what do you make of the following passage:

1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. 23 But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him. 24 Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power.

Do you think "the end" here is talking about the end of the thousand years (and the beginning of Satan's little season)? If so, why would He hand over the kingdom to the Father even before Satan's little season occurs?

 

[covenantee]

You will closely note the statement was made (Full Preterist) deny a future second coming, yes you use "diversion" from the fact that you're (Partial Preterist) following the Roman Catholic Jesuit (Luis De Alcasar)

Provide for us some verbatim quotes about Matthew 24 from Alcazar's Vestigatio arcani sensus in Apocalypsi which demonstrate his preterism.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

It is actually very sad that Christian people find it necessary to change the meaning of plain Words in the Bible.
Revelation 20 says six times that there will be a thousand years on earth, after Jesus Returns and before the final Judgment of mankind.

LOL! You continue to make this silly argument. So, I will continue to point out that the beast is referenced over 30 times in the book of Revelation. Does that mean it's a literal beast since it is referenced so many times? Of course not. So, your argument here is ridiculous and can't be taken seriously.

Unfortunately, those who have chosen to believe teachings such as the AMill theory, are locked into it and are virtually unable to comprehend the Bible truths. Isaiah 29:9-12

Only after the forthcoming Day of the Lord's fiery wrath, will all finally understand. Isaiah 35:4-5, Isaiah 32:3-4, +

What a bunch of nonsense. You are completely incapable of backing up your claims. You just make comments and claim that certain verses support them but do NOTHING to show how they support your view.

 

[Truth7t7]

You deny that Luke knew the identity of the AOD.

You deny that Christ knew that the destruction of His old covenant nation would be great tribulation.

Yes, it's that simple indeed.

It's your false claim that Luke knew the identity of the AOD

It's your false claim that the great tribulation took place in 70AD

The audience Jesus was speaking to in Luke's account will be eyewitnesses of the "Future" great tribulation and second coming of Jesus Christ

"Look Up, Your Redemption Draweth Nigh"

Will you deny the fact of scripture before your eyes?

Sad part is, you will cling to the "Reformed Preterist Eschatology" that's a lie, as the scripture clearly shows

Luke 21:25-28KJV
25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

 

[covenantee]

It your false claim that Luke knew the identity of the AOD

It's your false claim that the great tribulation took place in 70AD

Go exhume Luke and Matthew and accuse them of making false claims.

Let us know how they respond.

 

[Truth7t7]

Go exhume Luke and Matthew and accuse them of making false claims.

Let us know how they respond.

Childish "Diversion", Running From The Factual Truth Presented Below

The audience Jesus was speaking to in Luke's account will be eyewitnesses of the "Future" great tribulation and second coming of Jesus Christ

"Look Up, Your Redemption Draweth Nigh"

Will you deny the fact of scripture before your eyes?

Sad part is, you will cling to the "Reformed Preterist Eschatology" that's a lie, as the scripture clearly shows

Luke 21:25-28KJV
25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Childish "Diversion",

LOL. That's rich coming from you. Hilarious.

 

[Truth7t7]

LOL. That's rich coming from you. Hilarious.

The audience Jesus was speaking to in Luke's account will be eyewitnesses of the "Future" great tribulation and second coming of Jesus Christ

"Look Up, Your Redemption Draweth Nigh"

Will you deny the fact of scripture before your eyes?

Sad part is, you will cling to the "Reformed Preterist Eschatology" that's a lie, as the scripture clearly shows

Luke 21:25-28KJV
25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

 

[Timtofly]

Your view turns a prophecy about things that would occur within a 490 year time period into a prophecy about things that would occur within at least a 2,500 year time period instead. There is no justification for that whatsoever.

Yes, because Daniel himself in chapter 12 claimed 3500 years until all will be accomplished. Times is 2,000 years. Time is 1000 years. Half a time is 500 years. Daniel's 490 years only covered the first 500 years and roughly. Daniel never claimed it would be over in 500 years.

You have to remember that Israel as a nation was put on hold, until the fulness of the Gentiles.

Unfortunately historist and some Amil have hijacked Israel as a physical nation and applied Scripture wrongly to a spiritual birth in Christ as replacing instead of just placing Israel on hold.

Christ did physically complete the work, but Paul did not say that during the fulness of the Gentiles, Israel was enjoying those 6 promises. Israel was to physically lead the world in this time of no sin, and Everlasting Righteousness. That is kind of hard to do if God places you off to the side until the Second Coming, ie the Prince to come part of Daniel 9.

Daniel 9:27 is not even about the 70th week. The fulness of the Gentiles is the gap of the 70th week. That was Jesus cut off, buy not for Himself. It was for the Gentiles and Jews equally, the whole world.


Daniel 9:27 is the week of the 7th Trumpet. It is a week of days, and in the midst of that week, will the AoD be set up, or not. Revelation 13 explains what happens in Daniel 9:27.

 

[covenantee]

The audience Jesus was speaking to in Luke's account will be eyewitnesses of the "Future" great tribulation and second coming of Jesus Christ

What audience was that?

 

[WPM]

The audience Jesus was speaking to in Luke's account will be eyewitnesses of the "Future" great tribulation and second coming of Jesus Christ

"Look Up, Your Redemption Draweth Nigh"

Will you deny the fact of scripture before your eyes?

Sad part is, you will cling to the "Reformed Preterist Eschatology" that's a lie, as the scripture clearly shows

Luke 21:25-28KJV
25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

Like your fellow Dispies, it doesnt matter how much truth you are given you refuse to see 2 tribs - one from God in AD70 against Jerusalem and the other future from Satan against God's people. It doesn't matter how much truth you are given you duck around it and keep repeating your error. Until you are prepared to address the evidence it is pointless in engaging with you.

I would sincerely recommend you apply to change your name with the Mods. It is a distortion of reality.

 

[Timtofly]

Please explain how those things will be fulfilled when He returns. In what way will "making an end of sin" be fulfilled when He returns? How exactly will everlasting righteousness be brought in when He returns?

You don't even accept there was a full bodily resurrection at the end of those 70 weeks for all the OT redeemed. They are enjoying a physical Paradise physically.

All you do is claim that promise spiritually for yourself and not even give those promises to the majority of the OT church currently in Paradise. Yes, there were redeemed Gentiles throughout the period between Abraham and the Cross.

Since the Cross, Paradise has been enjoyed both physically and spiritually the full benefit of the Cross and those promises.

All should acknowledge that only those on earth do not benefit, and certainly the rest of the dead waiting in sheol do not benefit from those promises. I am not saying those in Paradise are still waiting. Yet, you yourself declare they wait as souls more so, than your own benefit of those promises.

You limit them to some spiritual status. Yet the promise was given to physical Israel, and will be fulfilled with physical Israel on a physical earth.

 

[WPM]

You don't even accept there was a full bodily resurrection at the end of those 70 weeks for all the OT redeemed. They are enjoying a physical Paradise physically.

All you do is claim that promise spiritually for yourself and not even give those promises to the majority of the OT church currently in Paradise. Yes, there were redeemed Gentiles throughout the period between Abraham and the Cross.

Since the Cross, Paradise has been enjoyed both physically and spiritually the full benefit of the Cross and those promises.

All should acknowledge that only those on earth do not benefit, and certainly the rest of the dead waiting in sheol do not benefit from those promises. I am not saying those in Paradise are still waiting. Yet, you yourself declare they wait as souls more so, than your own benefit of those promises.

You limit them to some spiritual status. Yet the promise was given to physical Israel, and will be fulfilled with physical Israel on a physical earth.

Read the Bible and you will see the nonsense of that. The dead in Christ in the OT (who you now admit belong the Church), are raised when Christ comes. Your writings contradict themselves.

1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 says, “I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words.”

The focus of 1 Thessalonians 4 is concentrated solely upon the Christian dead. The reason is: Paul was actually comforting the believers in regard to the fate and future of their dead brethren. This is seen in the four references to such in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-16 says, “But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep … For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him … we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first.”

This in no way negates a general resurrection at the second coming. It is simply addressing one of many issues at the coming of Christ.

 

[Timtofly]

How about quoting the evidence instead of always presenting your own private opinions.

Amil is the most prolific private opinion being foisted on these boards.

If the Second Coming is not to earth, where is it to? Show a verse in Revelation 20 where Jesus leaves the earth. Show a verse any where in Revelation that shows Jesus leaves the earth before or after the Second Coming.

 

[Always Believing]

Sound The Alarm!

Many claim Jesus will literally return and rule "On This Earth" In A Millennium this being false in deception

Jesus warned his followers against this teaching, Jesus wont be found anywhere upon this earth as many claim

The Antichrist will be in Jerusalem, claiming to be Messiah Returned, "Beware"!

"Believe It Not" "Go Not Forth"

Matthew 24:23-27KJV
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Revelation 13:13-14KJV
13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

Revelation 19:20KJV
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

Do all you amils copy and paste just to see yourselves in print?