A Common Error

[pia]

"Lord, please, keep me teachable

Amen....And truly none of us should ever say that we are right, only that He is, and once we know something from Him, it should no longer be up for discussion in our own selves....

 

[H. Richard]

Sounds like your God is qualified to run the IRS. His salvation plan seems to be filled with loopholes and pitfalls and penalties galore! The Paul trap? Straight to Hell with ya!

How can a message of God's grace that says all of the sins of the world were paid for on the cross be a loophole??? You either believe it, have faith in it, have confidence in it, or you don't. If a person does not believe it then their sins are not paid for. Salvation is the work that Jesus did on the cross.

2 Cor 11:3
3 But I fear, lest somehow, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, so your minds may be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
NKJV

 

[bbyrd009]

If a person does not believe it then their sins are not paid for.

many will cry "LordLord."

Salvation is the work that Jesus did on the cross.

i would argue there that we are plainly told that no man may die for the sins of another, and we might be amiss if we did not compare the work of the cross to the Passover blood put on the door frames in Egypt, rather than the entrance to the Promised Land as is generally forwarded nowadays.

 

[Helen]

How can a message of God's grace that says all of the sins of the world were paid for on the cross be a loophole??? You either believe it, have faith in it, have confidence in it, or you don't. If a person does not believe it then their sins are not paid for. Salvation is the work that Jesus did on the cross.

2 Cor 11:3
3 But I fear, lest somehow, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, so your minds may be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
NKJV

God put us into a Body so that we could be a check and balance to each other.
So here I am, asking for balance...

A friend said to me today...Not only did Jesus fulfil the OT law in our stead...He fulfilled ALL Law for us...He spoke it in the beginning ..He fulfilled it at the end..being the Alpha and Omega of all things...including the law....not only the OT Law...but also His own two greatest laws..."Love God with all your heart , soul , mind and strength...and your neighbour as yourself...."
Well I am writing this post because before today...I had believed the Jesus fulfilled all the requirements of the Law for us...but I thought we only had to fulfil the two great commands. LOVE...so that has been my aim...while knowing I always fall far short.
But when my friend said...He fulfilled ALL the Law....I suddenly saw that Jesus..as in the sermon on the mount...RAISED the OT law to the Heart Level...
in His words.."you have heard it said...but I say unto you...etc"
Now today I see that was what He was also doing when He spoke the two New commands...raising the bar to the heart of love....which I for one cannot do!!

I had never, until today..seen that ALL means ALL...Jesus knew we could not do it.
Salvation, and everything we seek to attain to...can ONLY be by Grace through Faith in Father God and the Finished work of Christ Jesus. NOTHING of us.
Is that too far a reach?
Thanks....Helen

 

[VictoryinJesus]

God put us into a Body so that we could be a check and balance to each other.
So here I am, asking for balance...

A friend said to me today...Not only did Jesus fulfil the OT law in our stead...He fulfilled ALL Law for us...He spoke it in the beginning ..He fulfilled it at the end..being the Alpha and Omega of all things...including the law....not only the OT Law...but also His own two greatest laws..."Love God with all your heart , soul , mind and strength...and your neighbour as yourself...."
Well I am writing this post because before today...I had believed the Jesus fulfilled all the requirements of the Law for us...but I thought we only had to fulfil the two great commands. LOVE...so that has been my aim...while knowing I always fall far short.
But when my friend said...He fulfilled ALL the Law....I suddenly saw that Jesus..as in the sermon on the mount...RAISED the OT law to the Heart Level...
in His words.."you have heard it said...but I say unto you...etc"
Now today I see that was what He was also doing when He spoke the two New commands...raising the bar to the heart of love....which I for one cannot do!!

I had never, until today..seen that ALL means ALL...Jesus knew we could not do it.
Salvation, and everything we seek to attain to...can ONLY be by Grace through Faith in Father God and the Finished work of Christ Jesus. NOTHING of us.
Is that too far a reach?
Thanks....Helen

Thank you, ByGrace. Excellent post. It is so hard: (I am paraphrasing) love not only those that do good to you, but also love and forgive your enemies.!

 

[bbyrd009]

Is that too far a reach?
Thanks....Helen

i agree with all of that, but i also agree that faith without works is dead, and that our works will be judged, so imo this has to be grasped some kind of way also.

The arguments about "do you need works, or do you don't need works" all become moot in the face of the fact that you are going to do works regardless, you are doing works right now, whether you want to or not, work is what we do, doing things is working, and these will be judged. Regardless of whether that judgement is in real time, as i suspect, or in some tomorrow.

 

[bbyrd009]

but also love and forgive your enemies.!

amen, and this is a lot of work, it is a hard thing to do, as we might even witness that many who profess to "believe" do not do.

 

[Helen]

i agree with all of that, but i also agree that faith without works is dead, and that our works will be judged, so imo this has to be grasped some kind of way also.

The arguments about "do you need works, or do you don't need works" all become moot in the face of the fact that you are going to do works regardless, you are doing works right now, whether you want to or not, work is what we do, doing things is working, and these will be judged. Regardless of whether that judgement is in real time, as i suspect, or in some tomorrow.

Yes, thanks...I like that...good balance.
I know that it is is the Christ within which causes us to choose the good works and thoughts...but you know..being honest ( what else can we be really!)
Even what I believe is the good stuff I do..the fact that I feel I have done something good , wise, kind, loving etc etc...it make 'me' feel good...so that probably nullifies it as my works not His. LOL
I guess today I am more than usually musing over the uselessness of self..whether good or bad!!! All is useless...or as Ecclesiastes says..." Vanity of vanities, saith the Preacher, vanity of vanities; all is vanity...."
doyathinkGodissayingsomethingtome!!!

 

[bbyrd009]

Even what I believe is the good stuff I do..the fact that I feel I have done something good , wise, kind, loving etc etc...it make 'me' feel good...so that probably nullifies it as my works not His. LOL

ha, funny, i used that same standard for a while, but it stopped working when i tested it, sort of, because i changed in the process, is my theory there. As an example i would say that no one really much wants to go to a retirement home and hang out with them, until they do, and suddenly start looking forward to it.

So, in my mind, i began the effort in order to please God by my works, let's say, but now i enjoy it, even if it remains a work of service.

And we could use a standard of "does it make others feel good?" which also works, and also has problems. So now i'm back with the "do it, if it makes you feel good," and then i don't ignore later when/if i am shown how i was serving myself in some devious way or whatever, which being codependent i still am prone to.

 

[Helen]

AMEN @bbyrd009 .... it feels some what like and dog chasing it's tail sometimes.
When that happens...I usually sit very still and just focus on the Lord...nothing of this world, nothing of my thoughts. Just focus. He has all the answers, I sure don't!! LOL

 

[twinc]

Sounds like your God is qualified to run the IRS. His salvation plan seems to be filled with loopholes and pitfalls and penalties galore! The Paul trap? Straight to Hell with ya!

Jesus gave us the answer viz 'blessed are they who hear the word of God and keep it' - so how and where can we hear[not read] the word of God[Lk 10:16/Jn 10:27][Jn 21:15-16] - twinc

 

[Helen]

@twinc Romans 1:20 " For the invisible things of Him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse"

I say creation is a good bible! It is always 'speaking.'

 

[Truth]

what are you talking about Grace of which Noah found in God's sight is available to all who received the life Noah had and the Faith of Abraham in which all who received the same life that Abraham had can received: and now the gentiles can be grafted into the same faith.


Rom 3:29 Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith. 31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.




Rom_4:16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,

Rom_5:2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.



what is in error is the erroneous thinking you have Grace and Faith have been the method since Noah and Abraham. where have you been? any one born of Adam lives in sin and condemnation, then anyone born of Noah can find Grace in God's sight, then anyone born of Abraham Isaac and Jacob can by Faith walk with the Lord their God, hence by Grace through Faith the gentile maybe grafted in. according to the same Faith.

Paul's focus was the gentile whereas the 11 focused on the Jews the message to them that already had access to the faith and knew the faith of Abraham.

Wonderfully Said!!!!! I can only add, What ROOT AND FATNESS are we grafted into, the root and fatness of some denomination, NO the Root and Fatness of ISRAEL. we are also to share in the Commonwealth of Israel, which is?????? everything you said+ GOD. Thanks DP-- loved it!

 

[pia]

Is that too far a reach?

No, that is His perfection