A Common Error

[brakelite]

Thus continues the misconception that Israel could ever be saved by works of the law. Like @Enoch111 said, the gospel of grace was first taught to Adam and Eve in the garden. In Revelation 14:6 it is called the everlasting gospel. The services and laws commanded for Israel to observe never saved Israel, but were the means by which Israel could come into a relationship with the Good who could save them. Precisely the same way the gospel worked in the NT. The good news does not save anyone... The God to whom the good news points...He saves.
KJV Romans 1
16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

The laws of Moses... The sanctuary services... Was the gospel!! And as it always was, and ever will be, it is the gospel that points is to Christ... The good news that points is to Christ... The Lamb who taketh away the sins of the world

 

[ScottA]

But, are you saying that Paul taught differently than Jesus.

And if so, are you saying that Paul's teachings are more relevant than Jesus'?

Jesus came for the house of Israel, which He called "the first, who would be last." These are those who received the promises given to Abraham. Jesus' gospel (and that of the 11) was relevant to them. This is the first "fold" brought by Jesus.

Paul, on the other hand, was sent to the gentiles, not "the first", but "the last, who are first", first to be born [again] of the spirit of God. This is the second "fold", which he made clear do "not precede those who have fallen asleep", meaning "the dead in Christ" ("the first"). Paul's gospel is relevant to all who are born again.

Both are the folds and gospels of Christ. One gospel was to the dead, and the other to the living ("in Christ").

The point is...when we are no longer dead in our sins, we need to move on, to walk in the spirit. For we were not given any other salvation, except that of the Spirit.

 

[charity]

It is a common error for religious preachers/teachers to assume that the Pauline Gospel of Grace should be blended in with what Jesus and the 11 preached. I feel this is a deadly error that will send many to Hell.

Gal 1:8 NKJV
8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed.

It is a fact that God has given humankind different requirements down through history. The Pauline Gospel of salvation by faith in what God did on the cross (His shed blood) is without precedence in the scriptures. When a person fails to see this they will always blend the Law of Moses (what Jesus and the 11 taught to the Jews) with grace and destroy both of them. Paul warned about this in Rom. 2:16 and Rom 16:25.

Rom 2:16 NKJV
16 in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel.

Rom 16:25 NKJV
25 Now to Him who is able to establish you according to my gospel and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery kept secret since the world began.

It is clear that Jesus Christ, by His own words, did not come to minister to the Gentiles, nor was His message "the kingdom gospel" sent to the Gentiles. He did not offer the promised "kingdom of heaven" to the Gentiles. The following scriptures support this fact.

Matt 10:5-7 (NKJ)
5 These twelve Jesus sent out and commanded them, saying: "Do not go into the way of the Gentiles, and do not enter a city of the Samaritans.
6 "But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
7 "And as you go, preach, saying, 'The kingdom of heaven is at hand.'

Matt 15:23-24 (NKJ)
23 But He answered her not a word. And His disciples came and urged Him, saying, "Send her away, for she cries out after us."
24 But He answered and said, "I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel."

Paul said: Rom 15:8 (NKJ)
8 Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers:

Note that in Matt 10:5-7 and Matt 15:23-24 Jesus said He did not come EXCEPT to the house of Israel. Jesus came to confirm/fulfill all the promises God made to the Jews that were written about Him in the O.T. His mission was to the Jews, not to the Gentiles. This is what Paul meant in Rom 15:8 above.

IMPORTANT NOTE: -- This is not to say that God did not have another purpose for Jesus' death on the cross. But that purpose was “hidden in God” and revealed to Paul on the road to Damascus by Jesus. (Eph 3:9). The church for this age of grace (the Church of His body) started when Paul preached the gospel of grace that was given to him by Jesus.

It is my obligation/burden to try and make people see this terrible error.

H Richard

Hello @H Richard,

I agree that the failure to discern between the teaching of the Lord Jesus Christ, which was the gospel of the Kingdom: delivered to 'the lost sheep of the house of Israel' to Whom He came; and the gospel of the grace of God delivered through Paul; has muddied the waters for many, especially in regard to law and grace. Yet Paul's ministry changed according to the will of God, and it is not until the end of the Acts period that the truth concerning the Church of the One Body of which Christ is the Head was revealed to Paul, and administered by Him in His later (prison) epistles, namely Eph. Phil. Col. 1 & 2 Timothy and Titus. Therefore comparison must be made between his early and later epistles in order to discern the change that took place, that we may walk worthy of the good news therein revealed for this present dispensation of grace.

* Please reconsider your use of the word, Hell, made in your opening sentence.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[H. Richard]

Hello @H Richard,

I agree that the failure to discern between the teaching of the Lord Jesus Christ, which was the gospel of the Kingdom: delivered to 'the lost sheep of the house of Israel' to Whom He came; and the gospel of the grace of God delivered through Paul; has muddied the waters for many, especially in regard to law and grace. Yet Paul's ministry changed according to the will of God, and it is not until the end of the Acts period that the truth concerning the Church of the One Body of which Christ is the Head was revealed to Paul, and administered by Him in His later (prison) epistles, namely Eph. Phil. Col. 1 & 2 Timothy and Titus. Therefore comparison must be made between his early and later epistles in order to discern the change that took place, that we may walk worthy of the good news therein revealed for this present dispensation of grace.

* Please reconsider your use of the word, Hell, made in your opening sentence.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

I liked your reply. It is a fact that there is a war between religions and the gospel of the grace of God. There has always been one. People should learn that it was the religious who persecuted the Prophets of God. It was the religious that had Jesus killed and Stephen stoned to death.

If people open their eyes they will see that this same thing is going on in this forum. I proclaim the gospel of grace that was given to Paul for us. The gospel that says Jesus paid for the sins of the whole world with His blood on the cross. The Jews rejected Jesus as their Messiah and King. Today people are rejecting Jesus' payment for their sins and think that they will be saved by their own efforts. That is the way of Cain.

There is a reason that some on this forum wish to silence me. That reason is fostered by Satan. The religious do not want people to see the Gospel of Grace that Jesus gave to Paul. They refuse to see that God has leveled the field so that all can be saved if they will just believe in His work on the cross. If you can see it those people are just like the Pharisees in Jesus' days.

 

[Helen]

<snip> You have Paul inventing a new gospel....whereas he simply preached what Jesus preached.

Paul did not invent a new gospel, Paul preach what Jesus told him to preach when He revealed Himself to Paul on the road to Damascus.

Jesus came to Israel , and for mankind...but His message was for Israel ... their cup was full.
The law was fulfilled in Jesus Christ. ( "I do not come to destroy the law but to fulfil it" ) and He did just that...then He handed to Paul the ministry of grace and freedom from the old law , and the new law He gave , of LOVE..
Jesus Himself SAID=
John 14:12 " Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father."

Why on earth do people freak out in indignation, when it is pointed out, correctly so, that THROUGH JESUS CHRIST , Paul's message was even greater? Why?

It sure doesn't freak God out!!

 

[Helen]

It is a fact that there is a war between religions and the gospel of the grace of God. There has always been one. People should learn that it was the religious who persecuted the Prophets of God. It was the religious that had Jesus killed and Stephen stoned to death.

Amen...true word...In my post above I almost called it out as a religious spirit, but withheld....but I am glad that you did. Because sadly that is what it is. It comes with blinkers...
...

 

[Helen]

There is a reason that some on this forum wish to silence me. That reason is fostered by Satan. The religious do not want people to see the Gospel of Grace that Jesus gave to Paul. They refuse to see that God has leveled the field so that all can be saved if they will just believe in His work on the cross. If you can see it those people are just like the Pharisees in Jesus' days.

True also. They cry 'error' and 'heresy'...because their own eyes and spirit is has been opened ..but bound by fears and religiosity.

Just keep dripping the word...it will fall on some good ground...after all..it fell on us when we suddenly saw it for the first time.

There is always hope ...at the sent of water ...it will take root... in the seekers.

I believe so many just react , from habit and indoctrination...rather than take time to wait with it before the Lord and ASK HIM to show the truth of the matter.

 

[Helen]

* Please reconsider your use of the word, Hell, made in your opening sentence.

The whole post was good.
But I too 'stepped back' at the quote of his also...it would have been much better without it. I agree , glad you mentioned it.

 

[Dave L]

I liked your reply. It is a fact that there is a war between religions and the gospel of the grace of God. There has always been one. People should learn that it was the religious who persecuted the Prophets of God. It was the religious that had Jesus killed and Stephen stoned to death.

If people open their eyes they will see that this same thing is going on in this forum. I proclaim the gospel of grace that was given to Paul for us. The gospel that says Jesus paid for the sins of the whole world with His blood on the cross. The Jews rejected Jesus as their Messiah and King. Today people are rejecting Jesus' payment for their sins and think that they will be saved by their own efforts. That is the way of Cain.

There is a reason that some on this forum wish to silence me. That reason is fostered by Satan. The religious do not want people to see the Gospel of Grace that Jesus gave to Paul. They refuse to see that God has leveled the field so that all can be saved if they will just believe in His work on the cross. If you can see it those people are just like the Pharisees in Jesus' days.

Paul's gospel was the same preached to Abraham. Only Paul had the full picture where Abraham had a fragment. Both Jesus and Paul preached the gospel of the kingdom, only Paul updated it.

 

[Episkopos]

Paul did not invent a new gospel, Paul preach what Jesus told him to preach when He revealed Himself to Paul on the road to Damascus.

Are you saying that Paul was given a unique and separate gospel from what Jesus preached...that was to be directed towards the Gentiles as H. Richard is proposing?

There is so much mud in the water, so to speak. The word "grace" in many churches is seen as God turning a blind eye to sin and human weakness.....rather than the strengthening of the inner man to walk as Jesus walked in victory over sin.

So then you are espousing the kind of grace that doesn't change mankind through a divine gift of empowerment...but God's position about sin?

Do you not see a discrepancy here?

Are you denying the power of God?

 

[H. Richard]

You are denying what Jesus said...and His gospel, based on a lack of understanding.

You would have the gospel that Jesus preached (that of the kingdom of God which Paul also preached) )become a different gospel that one deserves to be condemned for.

Truly outrageous. That is what ignorance does.

Thanks for saying I am ignorant. Would it do any GOOD to say you are too?

I have never denied what Jesus said. All I have done is to say it was not said to those under grace. He came to the Jews and His gospel was that the promised kingdom was at hand. Now if that is denying what Jesus said prove it. Show me where Jesus taught a Gentile.

 

[Episkopos]

True also. They cry 'error' and 'heresy'...because their own eyes and spirit is has been opened ..but bound by fears and religiosity.

Just keep dripping the word...it will fall on some good ground...after all..it fell on us when we suddenly saw it for the first time.

There is always hope ...at the sent of water ...it will take root... in the seekers.

I believe so many just react , from habit and indoctrination...rather than take time to wait with it before the Lord and ASK HIM to show the truth of the matter.

Religiosity is found in those who maintain the status quo of sinful humanity...and simply cover it with a cheap form of grace that makes God not be able to see humanity's true condition.

And what is the price for that blindness on the part of God?

Faith in Jesus's ability to blind His Father to the true condition of they who place their "trust" in that ability.

 

[Episkopos]

Thanks for saying I am ignorant. Would it do any GOOD to say you are too?

I have never denied what Jesus said. All I have done is to say it was not said to those under grace. He came to the Jews and His gospel was that the promised kingdom was at hand. Now if that is denying what Jesus said prove it. Show me where Jesus taught a Gentile.

You are simply ignorant of the power of God. That is what grace is. The word instructs me to walk away from people who have a form of religion...but deny the power of Christ's resurrection.

The gospel is to the Jew first...but also the Gentiles. Salvation is OF the Jews.

You have utterly confused the issue by making salvation a separate issue for one kind of person over another. Paul speaks against this very thing by saying that in Christ there is NO difference between Jew and Gentile, man or woman, slave or free.

You have entirely missed what grace is and what the kingdom of God is. Your reasoning is fully carnal. You have changed the meaning of grace to suit the flesh...and ignored entirely the kingdom as something that the Jews were called to. But one is born again by the Spirit in order to SEE the kingdom. They who have no spiritual life will not see the kingdom of God...it will remain foreign to them.

Only they who have no spiritual life in them will agree with you. And they will do so for precisely the same reason that you do...a lack of the eternal kind of life.

But you can stop reasoning with your limited understanding and seek the Lord about these things. God enlightens our minds into an understanding of eternal things by allowing us to walk in intimate fellowship with Him in a heavenly place.

I pray you do reach out to God for this.

 

[H. Richard]

Are you saying that Paul was given a unique and separate gospel from what Jesus preached...that was to be directed towards the Gentiles as H. Richard is proposing?

There is so much mud in the water, so to speak. The word "grace" in many churches is seen as God turning a blind eye to sin and human weakness.....rather than the strengthening of the inner man to walk as Jesus walked in victory over sin.

So then you are espousing the kind of grace that doesn't change mankind through a divine gift of empowerment...but God's position about sin?

Do you not see a discrepancy here?

Are you denying the power of God?

Just like the religious. They want something out of it so they can glory in themselves.

The cross is the power of God to call clean what mankind calls unclean. God paid for the sins of His children on the cross and His children believe it, place their faith and trust in it. But the religious only have faith in themselves being able to work their way into Heaven. They think that it is what they do that makes them clean.

 

[H. Richard]

Paul's gospel was the same preached to Abraham. Only Paul had the full picture where Abraham had a fragment. Both Jesus and Paul preached the gospel of the kingdom, only Paul updated it.

Dave did you read these words? ""Foreseeing-Beforehand-would justify?"

Galatians 3:6-8
6 just as Abraham "believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness."
7 Therefore know that only those who are of faith are sons of Abraham.

8 And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel to Abraham beforehand, saying, "In you all the nations shall be blessed." NKJV

Note the words “foreseeing“, “would justify“, “beforehand“. They clearly indicate that faith was not instituted at that time. It was to be a future event.

 

[Dave L]

Dave did you read these words? ""Foreseeing-Beforehand-would justify?"

Galatians 3:6-8
6 just as Abraham "believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness."
7 Therefore know that only those who are of faith are sons of Abraham.

8 And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel to Abraham beforehand, saying, "In you all the nations shall be blessed." NKJV

Note the words “foreseeing“, “would justify“, “beforehand“. They clearly indicate that faith was not instituted at that time. It was to be a future event.

Abraham had faith. As did all the OT faithful Hebrews 11.

 

[Episkopos]

True also. They cry 'error' and 'heresy'...because their own eyes and spirit is has been opened ..but bound by fears and religiosity.

Just keep dripping the word...it will fall on some good ground...after all..it fell on us when we suddenly saw it for the first time.

There is always hope ...at the sent of water ...it will take root... in the seekers.

I believe so many just react , from habit and indoctrination...rather than take time to wait with it before the Lord and ASK HIM to show the truth of the matter.

The problems in the modern church stem in large part from the lowering of the standard of Christ by the introduction of damnable heresies....such as you are presently espousing. I'm not sure if you are following this thread correctly. But the person you are agreeing with is at the outer extremes of what is called...cheap grace.

Cheap grace puts the responsibility for sins on God. In this scheme people, because of grace, are no longer held responsible for their own sinful actions.

But the truth cries out against this outrage and perversion of truth. God will judge they who preach this "other" gospel very severely. This is precisely what Paul was warning us about.

 

[Episkopos]

Dave did you read these words? ""Foreseeing-Beforehand-would justify?"

Galatians 3:6-8
6 just as Abraham "believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness."
7 Therefore know that only those who are of faith are sons of Abraham.

8 And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel to Abraham beforehand, saying, "In you all the nations shall be blessed." NKJV

Note the words “foreseeing“, “would justify“, “beforehand“. They clearly indicate that faith was not instituted at that time. It was to be a future event.

That's true. The kingdom of God was meant for the people of God...who at that time were only Jews.

But something new has happened with the coming of Christ. The door into the kingdom was made available to the people of God. But most Jews refused to enter in because they saw this as something foreign to their way of thinking.

So then the way into the kingdom of God was granted to ALL men.

Those who are born again by the Spirit now have access into the life that Jesus walked in while He was among us. THAT is the gospel that Paul preached. Be filled with the Spirit and have victory over all things in this temporal world. Eternal life trumps temporal issues.

 

[H. Richard]

You are simply ignorant of the power of God. That is what grace is. The word instructs me to walk away from people who have a form of religion...but deny the power of Christ's resurrection.

But you can stop reasoning with your limited understanding and seek the Lord about these things. God enlightens our minds into an understanding of eternal things by allowing us to walk in intimate fellowship with Him in a heavenly place.

I pray you do reach out to God for this.

Okay, so to you I am ignorant of the power of God. No, I don't believe Jesus has established a religion where some think they do not sin in the flesh any longer because they have the power to not sin. Salvation under grace is for everyone including the ungodly. But you will deny this even though the scriptures tell us about it.

Rom 4:5-6
5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the UNGODLY, his faith is accounted for righteousness,
6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works:
NKJV

Rom 5:6-9
6 For when we were still without strength, in due time Christ died for the UNGODLY.
7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die; yet perhaps for a good man someone would even dare to die.
8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
9 Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him.
NKJV

You keep saying you have the power to not sin and therefore when you sin you have no excuse. If you say you have no sin then you wish to make God a liar.

 

[Episkopos]

Why on earth do people freak out in indignation, when it is pointed out, correctly so, that THROUGH JESUS CHRIST , Paul's message was even greater? Why?

It sure doesn't freak God out!!

This is a strawman argument and shows you are not really getting the right bearing on this issue.

How can you claim that we Gentiles are more powerful in grace and truth than the early apostles who are all Jewish. Your argument is backwards.

But if you mean that God requires less from Gentiles than from the original people of God...then you are surely among the confused religious people of this generation.

God expects MORE from us
If we don't produce the fruit of Christ...the holy eternal kind...we will also be rejected.

We are to fear, not boast by making false and empty claims.

We can begin by avoiding the wrath of God...by humbling ourselves and see that the Spirit makes us FULLY responsible for every thought and deed.

We will be judged harder...held to a higher standard...than the world because we have received grace.

I tend to wonder , with all the ignorance about spiritual things...just how many people have actually met the Lord.