A message for those of you expecting to go to heaven

[John Zain]

[SIZE=12pt]Some verses that warn against losing eternal life[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]Matthew 10:39[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt] -- [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]He who finds his life will lose it, and he who loses his life for My sake will find it.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]Matthew 16:25[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt] -- [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]For whoever desires to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life [/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]for My sake will find it.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]Mark 8:35, Luke 9:24[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt] -- [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]For whoever desires to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life [/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]for My sake and the gospel’s will save it.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]Romans 2:7-8[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt] -- [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, [/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]honor, and immortality;[/SIZE] [SIZE=12pt]but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, [/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath …[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]1 John 3:15 [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]-- [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]Galatians 6:8[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt] -- [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]For he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption, [/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]but he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]Matthew 7:14[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt] -- [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, [/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]and there are few who find it.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]Matthew 18:8-9[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt] -- [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]If your hand or foot causes you to sin, cut it off and cast[/SIZE] [SIZE=12pt]it [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]from you. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]It is better for you to enter into life lame or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet, [/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]to be cast into the everlasting fire.[/SIZE] [SIZE=12pt]And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and cast[/SIZE] [SIZE=12pt]it[/SIZE] [SIZE=12pt]from you. [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]It is better for you to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes, to be cast into hell fire.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]Matthew 19:17[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt] -- [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]Matthew 25:45-46[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt] -- [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]inasmuch as you did not do[/SIZE] [SIZE=12pt]it[/SIZE] [SIZE=12pt]to one of the least of these, [/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]you did not do[/SIZE] [SIZE=12pt]it[/SIZE] [SIZE=12pt]to Me.[/SIZE] [SIZE=12pt]And these will go away into everlasting punishment[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]Romans 8:6[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt] -- [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]For to be carnally minded is death[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]James 1:12[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt] -- [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]Blessed is the man who endures temptation; for when he has been approved, [/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]he will receive the crown of life which the Lord has promised to those who love Him.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]1 John 2:3[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt] -- [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]Jude 1:20-21 [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]-- [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]But you, beloved, building yourselves up on your most holy faith, [/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]praying in the Holy Spirit, keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy [/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]Revelation 2:10[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt] -- [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]Revelation 3:5[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt] -- [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, [/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]Revelation 22:14[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt] -- [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have [/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]There are dozens of other dire warnings to do such and such … or else![/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]-- hang onto eternal life[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]-- hope for eternal life[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]-- obey the will of Father God[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]-- know and follow Jesus[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]-- be led by the Spirit of God[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]-- hate your life[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]-- do not walk in the flesh[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]-- walk in the Spirit[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]-- repent of your sins[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]-- be an overcomer[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]-- continue in the faith[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]-- do not be disobedient[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]-- do not be a habitual sinner[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]-- [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]examine yourself to see if you are disqualified[/SIZE]

 

[Warrior]

Paul was Not perfect, nor was peter you now. Everyone falls short, and we all experience the temptations and such.

What Is holiness? I believe it means being Apart from evil, Separate from the way others act towards each other. Living with Love, Complete Faith and trust in Jesus/God...holiness is not exactly taken from someone when they view the TV or something like that, Because God can easily judge our intentions and Hearts. There is a verse for that (God knowing our hearts).

We are not justified just by the law, But By FAITH. because without FAITH, It is impossible to please GOD.

 

[veteran]

It is common for Jews to naturally want to be Legalists in their thinking. But that kind of thinking often violates Christ's Salvation through Faith alone. We as Christians are to have 'works' in Him, but we are not saved by those works. We are saved by the blood of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, something we cannot do of ourselves.

And the NT idea for the KJV word "perfect" means being 'mature' in mental and moral character per Greek teleios. It's an important distinction, because of our degraded flesh state we always will fall short of the glory of God. We will continue to mess up until Christ releases us from the bondage of this flesh at His coming. That understanding is in contrast with those like the blind Pharisees and occultists who think it possible to actually be 'perfect' in this flesh. It is not possible, which is the WHOLE POINT of Christ's Blood shed upon His cross.

And Biblically, a habitual sinner is one who DOES NOT CARE if they sin or not. It is not about a believer on Christ Jesus that is having a hard time trying to overcome sin in their lives. The habitual sinner idea Biblically is applied to the wicked, those without Christ and without repentance, and thus without His saving Grace.

Show me someone who 'thinks' they are, or can be perfect without sin in this world, and I'll show you someone that probably needs to repent to Christ daily of their sins!

 

[John Zain]

And the NT idea for the KJV word "perfect" means being 'mature' in mental and moral character per Greek teleios.

And Biblically, a habitual sinner is one who DOES NOT CARE if they sin or not.
It is not about a believer on Christ Jesus that is having a hard time trying to overcome sin in their lives.
The habitual sinner idea Biblically is applied to the wicked, those without Christ and without repentance,
and thus without His saving Grace.

Of course, the BAC going through the sanctification process is required to perfect/mature.
And, what is your Greek excuse for the imperative to be "holy"?

IMO, there are BACs who are habitual sinners.
They have every right, i.e. free will, to refuse to stop being habitual sinners!
These are the ones mentioned in passages such as the following:
1 Cor 6:9-10 • People committing these sins will not inherit the kingdom of God.
Gal 5:19-21 • Believers who practice such sins will not inherit the kingdom of God.
Eph 5:3-6 • Disobedient believers committing such sins will incur the wrath of God.
Col 3:5-6 • Disobedient believers committing such sins will incur the wrath of God.
Rev 21:7-8 • People committing these sins will go into the lake of fire (the second death).
Rev 21:27 • People committing these sins will not enter the New Jerusalem.
Rev 22:14-15 • People committing these sins will not enter the New Jerusalem.

Veteran,
It's nice to know that the Father is mature ... thanks!
“Therefore you shall be perfect/mature, just as your Father in heaven is perfect/mature.”
(Matthew 5:48, NKJV)

 

[Warrior]

True we have the free will to stop, But let me tell you, Sexual sin is addictive. I sound like I am "giving and excuse", but I have been addicted, and its not that easy. Sorta like a smoker

 

[williemac]

Of course, the BAC going through the sanctification process is required to perfect/mature.
And, what is your Greek excuse for the imperative to be "holy"?

IMO, there are BACs who are habitual sinners.
They have every right, i.e. free will, to refuse to stop being habitual sinners!
These are the ones mentioned in passages such as the following:
1 Cor 6:9-10 • People committing these sins will not inherit the kingdom of God.
Gal 5:19-21 • Believers who practice such sins will not inherit the kingdom of God.
Eph 5:3-6 • Disobedient believers committing such sins will incur the wrath of God.
Col 3:5-6 • Disobedient believers committing such sins will incur the wrath of God.
Rev 21:7-8 • People committing these sins will go into the lake of fire (the second death).
Rev 21:27 • People committing these sins will not enter the New Jerusalem.
Rev 22:14-15 • People committing these sins will not enter the New Jerusalem.

Veteran,
It's nice to know that the Father is mature ... thanks!
“Therefore you shall be perfect/mature, just as your Father in heaven is perfect/mature.”
(Matthew 5:48, NKJV)

Lets look at these references. 1st one. 1Cor.6:9,10. Why did you stop there? Paul goes on to say in vs.11..." And such were some of you. (But you quit doing these things....Wait a minute. He did not say that .He said)..." but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of God.
In John 5:24, Jesus promised that those who were of faith would not come into judgment. Vs. 11 above tells how that is accomplished. Through washing, sanctification, and justification....all done by the Spirit.

Gal.5:19-21....These are they who are in the world who practice such things. Paul is not applying this to believers. He is giving a general list of the things that those who are judged will be judged for. Remember, Jesus said we will not be judged. Those who will be judged will be judged for all of the works of the flesh. Those who fail on any one point of the law are declared guilty of all the law.

The same can be said for several of the other references. If Paul was telling them that they had to be keepers of the law to be saved, then he contradicted his own teaching.

As well, the Rev. references simply reinforce that which the bible teaches about sin and judgment. All sinners outside of Christ will be judged for sin. They were not washed, they were not sanctified, they were not justified. (1Cor.6:11) They will be judged as sinners.

This is not hard to comprehend if one allows all of scripture to be compatible with itself, rather than doing the paper, rock, scissors game.

The conclusions you have come to deny much of the good news presented in the gospel, including and especially the promise made by Jesus in John 5:24. If you expect us to accept your viewpoint, then please address that passage and enlighten us as to your take on its meaning. How is it that believers will be judged, when Jesus said they would not? Thank you, Howie


An edit to say a few more things. In Rev. 2:20-22, we find Jesus dealing with those He calls His servants who are being beguiled to commit sexual immorality. Much to some people's disappointment I'm sure, we find Jesus chastening them with great tribulation (trouble). O, gee, our lord rebukes and chastens those whom He loves.
Why would we assume He would just give up on a disobedient child? Especially one who is bearing fruit along with other stuff? We would assume it if we do not understand His nature, His solution to sin, and His grace.

2Cor.4:7..." We have this treasure (the new man, created righteous and holy re:Eph.4:24) in earthen vessels (flesh), so that the excellence of the glory may be of God and not of us.

FYI, my friend. God left us is a weak, compromised, and dependent condition, so that we would be discouraged from placing our confidence in our own ability. He gives grace to the humble, resists the proud. No cause for boasting in His agenda for us.

 

[Rex]

Holiness is required

“… but as He who called you is holy, you also be holy in all your conduct,
because it is written, “Be holy, for I am holy.” (1 Peter 1:15-16, NKJV)

John why not read and place the content of the whole conversation with-in the complete truth.
Everyone knows or should that selective sound bits can be made to imply any number or different things.

13 Therefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and rest your hope fully!!!! upon the grace that is to be brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ; 14 as obedient children, not conforming yourselves to the former lusts, as in your ignorance;

Now comes verse 15 and 16

15 but as He who called you is holy, you also be holy in all your conduct, 16 because it is written, “Be holy, for I am holy.”


It sure changes your version of the verse pointing toward Perfection is required
And It certainly doesn't come from the Spirit of grace.

 

[JB_Reformed Baptist]

A message for those of you expecting to go to heaven!​

 

[veteran]

Of course, the BAC going through the sanctification process is required to perfect/mature.
And, what is your Greek excuse for the imperative to be "holy"?

IMO, there are BACs who are habitual sinners.
They have every right, i.e. free will, to refuse to stop being habitual sinners!
These are the ones mentioned in passages such as the following:
1 Cor 6:9-10 • People committing these sins will not inherit the kingdom of God.
Gal 5:19-21 • Believers who practice such sins will not inherit the kingdom of God.
Eph 5:3-6 • Disobedient believers committing such sins will incur the wrath of God.
Col 3:5-6 • Disobedient believers committing such sins will incur the wrath of God.
Rev 21:7-8 • People committing these sins will go into the lake of fire (the second death).
Rev 21:27 • People committing these sins will not enter the New Jerusalem.
Rev 22:14-15 • People committing these sins will not enter the New Jerusalem.

Veteran,
It's nice to know that the Father is mature ... thanks!
“Therefore you shall be perfect/mature, just as your Father in heaven is perfect/mature.”
(Matthew 5:48, NKJV)

Apostle Paul used the concept of running a race about striving for the mastery per 1 Cor.9. As long as the race is still going on, the prize is not yet won. He used that race idea as an analogy for this present time of striving to follow Christ, being temperate in all things. That race isn't over untll Christ's return.

But claiming that we can 'be'... perfect now, instead of being 'accounted' perfect through Christ's Blood, that is not aligned with New Testament doctrine per Paul. If it were then Paul would have never given so many admonitions to the Church about keeping the Faith and striving for the mastery like 1 Cor.9:25.

Isaiah 5:18 speaks of those who sin as it were with a cart rope. The idea in the Hebrew is one who willingly sins and pulls those sins around in a cart for show and tell. We are all... sinners in this world, and those in Christ still fall short of God's glory, so there has to be a difference between the habitual sinner and the sinner that is forgiven, and there is a difference per God's Word.

Apostle Paul's own words here show that you cannot simply assign the idea of trying to be perfect in a sense that you already are perfect...

Phil 3:8-12
8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for Whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,
9 And be found in Him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
10 That I may know Him, and the power of His resurrection, and the fellowship of His sufferings, being made conformable unto His death;
11 If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.
12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.
(KJV)


Paul equates truly being perfect with the future resurrection, not the time of this present world. That's why it's wrong to assume that we've already attained that because that event is for when Jesus returns to end this present world.

 

[John Zain]

Paul equates truly being perfect with the future resurrection, not the time of this present world. That's why it's wrong
to assume that we've already attained that because that event is for when Jesus returns to end this present world.

IMO, there is a lot of tricky stuff going on in the NT.
John 3:16, etc. simply says to only believe and you're saved.
Other passages definitely say one can lose salvation.

In Matthew 5, we have the Beatitudes where Jesus warns against ...
anger (murder), looking (adultery), divorce, oaths, not going the second mile, not loving your enemies.

Immediately next, He says, "you shall be perfect just as your Father in heaven is perfect."
I.E. If you do all of the good stuff I just mentioned, you'll be perfect.

But He's not saying when you're finally in heaven you'll be perfect.
Unless He's playing word games!

Related ... Ever notice that Paul often mixes strong warnings with soothing exhortation?

IMO, most spiritual Truths are "somewhat hidden" and must be revealed spiritually.
I.E. When you have 2 supposedly conflicting groups of verses.
Not too long ago, I started a thread on this.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Greek word translated perfect in NT

G5046 τέλειος teleios (tel'-ei-os) adj.
1. complete

Complete does not mean flawless perfection. If we say a man has grown up and is a complete man, we mean he has all of the faculties and parts necessary to do what he was designed for, not that he is a perfect specimen with no flaws. A mentally retarded person would not be considered a complete man, nor would a quadriplegic be considered complete; nor would an infant or a fetus be considered a complete man.

Let patience have [her] complete work, that ye may be complete and whole lacking nothing. James 1:4

Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby. Wherefore lift up the hands which hang down, and the feeble knees; And make straight paths for your feet, lest that which is lame be turned out of the way; but let it rather be healed. Hebrews 12:11-13

Be ye therefore complete, even as your Father which is in heaven is complete. Matthew 5:48

 

[John Zain]

Greek word translated perfect in NT
G5046 τέλειος teleios (tel'-ei-os) adj.
1. complete
Be ye therefore complete, even as your Father which is in heaven is complete. Matthew 5:48

Veteran says it means "mature" ... maybe it depends on the bias of the translator!!!

“Therefore you shall be perfect/mature/complete,
just as your Father in heaven is perfect/mature/complete.” (Matthew 5:48)

How about havin' a go @ "holy" ... the Veteran declined.
Lots of verses telling us TO BE holy ... when there are verses saying we ARE holy.

 

[IanLC]

Now I am not an advocate for sinless perfection or those of the sinful salvation corwd who thinks anything goes. I believe that we are to liv eholy because its our reasonable service to the free gift of salvation we have received from God. Holiness is the behaivor of our genuine belief. Genuine belief produces behaivor. Christ imputes His righteousness in us and gives us the Holy Spirit who sanctifies us daily and matures in Christ. We should die daily to sin and be resurrected by the Word of God. Holiness is commanded and we must adhere to it.
"I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service." (Romans 12:1)

 

[JB_Reformed Baptist]

Veteran says it means "mature" ... maybe it depends on the bias of the translator!!!

“Therefore you shall be perfect/mature/complete,
just as your Father in heaven is perfect/mature/complete.” (Matthew 5:48)

How about havin' a go @ "holy" ... the Veteran declined.
Lots of verses telling us TO BE holy ... when there are verses saying we ARE holy.

So, what's holiness? How do you understand the scriptures, as Jesus said?

 

[williemac]

Now I am not an advocate for sinless perfection or those of the sinful salvation corwd who thinks anything goes. I believe that we are to liv eholy because its our reasonable service to the free gift of salvation we have received from God. Holiness is the behaivor of our genuine belief. Genuine belief produces behaivor. Christ imputes His righteousness in us and gives us the Holy Spirit who sanctifies us daily and matures in Christ. We should die daily to sin and be resurrected by the Word of God. Holiness is commanded and we must adhere to it.
"I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service." (Romans 12:1)

How is it that as living sacrifices, this makes us holy? I will answer that. It seems to me that most people consider holiness to be a matter of moral behavior, as your post suggests. However, I had a recent revelation concerning this word. I looked it up in my concordance and found that food can be holy, water can be holy, garments can be holy, and a number of other things, whether animate or inanimate.
I think that because of this fact we should consider that it may mean something other than moral or righteous behavior.
The only thing I can see in common with all things that are called holy is that they have godly purpose.
We are called according to His purpose. We were created for His purpose. When we come into His family, we do so with the agreement that He has a purpose for our lives, both corporately and individually. So when we make ourselves available to God for His purpose for our lives, this is holy and acceptable.

The original sin, that of Lucifer, was to reject His God given purpose. He determined to take on the role of God, creating his own purpose for himself. At that point, he became unholy.

Our new man, which Paul exhorted the Ephesians to put on (Eph.4:24) was created according to God in true righteousness AND holiness, as the verse states. Righteousness and holiness are not the same as one another. One is about morality. The other is about purpose. We are called according to His purpose. It is a holy calling. Holiness is not that difficult. A good start is to not oppose the fact that He has a plan for your life.

 

[Rex]

Willie

It also ties in with sanctified as in made holy, Strongs #37
Look at the way it is translated here in Hebrews the two are
Hebrews 10:10
Hebrews 10:10 ESV
Hebrews 10:10 KJV

Thayer's Definition

1. to render or acknowledge, or to be venerable or hallow
2. to separate from profane things and dedicate to God
   consecrate things to God
3. dedicate people to God

[*]to purify

1. to cleanse externally
2. to purify by expiation: free from the guilt of sin
3. to purify internally by renewing of the soul

Strong's Definition

From G40; to make holy, that is, (ceremonially) purify or consecrate; (mentally) to venerate: - hallow, be holy, sanctify.

 

[IanLC]

Willie

It also ties in with sanctified as in made holy, Strongs #37
Look at the way it is translated here in Hebrews the two are
Hebrews 10:10
Hebrews 10:10 ESV
Hebrews 10:10 KJV

Thayer's Definition

1. to render or acknowledge, or to be venerable or hallow
2. to separate from profane things and dedicate to God
   consecrate things to God
3. dedicate people to God

[*]to purify

1. to cleanse externally
2. to purify by expiation: free from the guilt of sin
3. to purify internally by renewing of the soul

Strong's Definition

From G40; to make holy, that is, (ceremonially) purify or consecrate; (mentally) to venerate: - hallow, be holy, sanctify.

I agree with these definitions. Holiness encompasses these and much more. Its a freedom to live holy! To live with a pure conscience and live life resting in Jesus whom gave us a holy salvation from His holy blood! BEing justified and thus declared righteous by God through Christ and being indwelled and sealed with the Holy Spirit who sanctifies us along with the Word of God! We worship God in the BEAUTY of holiness. Holiness is beautiful and an attribute of God much like His love and Grace. And He works holiness in us through His HOLY Spirit! What a joyful holy salvation found in the Holy CHrist Jesus!

 

[Rex]

I agree with these definitions. Holiness encompasses these and much more. Its a freedom to live holy! To live with a pure conscience and live life resting in Jesus whom gave us a holy salvation from His holy blood! BEing justified and thus declared righteous by God through Christ and being indwelled and sealed with the Holy Spirit who sanctifies us along with the Word of God! We worship God in the BEAUTY of holiness. Holiness is beautiful and an attribute of God much like His love and Grace. And He works holiness in us through His HOLY Spirit! What a joyful holy salvation found in the Holy CHrist Jesus!

I'm glad you mentioned the word. Its a cleaning agent, refiner of gold and silver "speaking of the church Eph 5:26 " being holy and sanctified also means being being matured and properly dividing the word of God 2 Tim 2:15 . It doesn't save us, but its a part of our obligation and a mark or sign indicating one born of Christ 1 John 4:1 I'll leave it at this, John 17:19 KJV Knowing the truth is a very important part of a Christians life, a part that by now many of us should be refined by in the fire of truth. Luke 24:32

 

[Arnie Manitoba]

John Zain (evangelist-7)

Your posts belong in a devout legalistic orthodox Jewish forum.

Not only that you take most verses and apply them totally out of context

Exactly what are you trying to accomplish anyway. ?

 

[JB_Reformed Baptist]

John Zain (evangelist-7)

Your posts belong in a devout legalistic orthodox Jewish forum.

Not only that you take most verses and apply them totally out of context

Exactly what are you trying to accomplish anyway. ?

True. Ambiguous at best.

I'm glad you mentioned the word. Its a cleaning agent, refiner of gold and silver "speaking of the church Eph 5:26 " being holy and sanctified also means being being matured and properly dividing the word of God 2 Tim 2:15 . It doesn't save us, but its a part of our obligation and a mark or sign indicating one born of Christ 1 John 4:1 I'll leave it at this, John 17:19 KJV Knowing the truth is a very important part of a Christians life, a part that by now many of us should be refined by in the fire of truth. Luke 24:32

AMEN!!