ewq1938
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A polite question for pretribbers
- Thread starter stunnedbygrace
- Start date
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David in NJ
Well-Known Member
This is a complete lie.
Only those who reject Christ will be left behind.
You need to turn to Christ and stop believing a lie or you may find yourself in the group of the 5 virgins who had no oil.
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
Whereby we know that the Resurrection and Rapture have not occurred at this point in time.
Only at the Second Coming of Christ does the First Resurrection with the Rapture take place and NEVER before.
There has never been found in Scripture(and never can be found) a single pre-trib rapture passage, declaration or prophecy.
“Pre-trib rapture” is a modern term that parallels a “Great ancient” event regarding “this world” a “Great future” event of “this world”.
***
“THIS WORLD”
….being Earth, the habitat of mankind.
“This world”….being Earth, is ALSO where Lucifer was “SENT”….and Gods Word was “SENT”.
39 times “this world” is mentioned in the NT. Jesus distinguishes the difference.
John 8:
[23] And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.
*** TRIBULATION(S) routine occurrences.
Are the “CAUSES” of Trials, Burdens, of distress and suffering.
IN THIS WORLD:
~ Men Against Men.
~ Lucifer (aka) Satan Against Men.
*** “GREAT” TRIBULATION(S) once.
distinguished AS “sent Down From the “WORLD of HEAVEN” Against “this World, Earth”, of:
~ God Against Men.
*** “GREAT” TRIBULATION(S) future again.
~ God Against Men.
“WHO”, “WHAT”, “WHEN”, “WHY” “WHERE”…
* WHO…God Against Men
* WHAT…Tribulation
* WHEN…Anciently and Future.
* WHY…Gods Anger
~ ANGER about WHAT?…Man rejecting God.
~ HOW is Gods ANGER revealed?..wrath.
* WHERE…Upon “this world”, Earth.
* WHAT occurred ANCIENTLY?
Men rejecting God. God getting Angry. Gods Wrath. Sending down from Heaven, Tribulations Upon the Earth and it’s inhabitants. Result? Face of the Earth Destroyed and inhabitants ON the Face of the Earth Killed.
AND?
A Prophetic Notice of a REPEAT…ONE MORE TIME.
Matt 24:
[21] For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
CONSIDER….WHAT and UPON WHOM was the FIRST GREAT TRIBULATION OF GOD…
AND WAS ANYONE EXCEPTED to ESCAPE Gods GREAT TRIBULATION and WRATH??
AND IF SO, WHO, WHY and HOW??
CONSIDER….a Prophetic CLUE.
Ecc 1:
[9] The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.
The THING that hath been per this discussion IS:
Men upon the face of the Earth, Against God.
Gods Anger, Gods Wrath, Gods Tribulation Against men upon the face of the Earth…
who, what, when, why, where, how ….was anyone excepted, to escape Gods Anger, Gods wrath, Gods FIRST Great Tribulation?
Continued…
Continued…
AND…EXPRESSLY REVEALED…EIGHT of mankind Were EXCEPTED, ESCAPED….
Gods Anger, Gods Wrath, Gods FIRST Great Tribulation God Sent Down from Heaven.
WHY? Gods Anger, Wrath, Tribulation?
Gen 6:5. Evil of man
Gen 6:6 Wickedness of man
Gen 6:6 Sorrow for creating man
Gen 6:7 Pledge to destroy man
OH…Wait…
Gen 6:8 SEES GRACE IN ONE MAN…NOAH
Gen 6:13 Will destroy man with the Earth
Gen 6:17 Will destroy man with A FLOOD.
Gen 6:18 A Promise Pack between God & Noah.
God instructs Noah to build an Ark, the specifics of design, the necessary time to construct, when to enter, who shall enter with Noah, and God shut the door. Seven days thereafter, rain began to fall.
Rain continued to fall, AND waters From under the earth raised up adding more water upon the face of the earth.
The Ark was lifted up ABOVE the face of the earth, to the face of the waters.
The Ark raised up so high, it was approximately 40 + feet ABOVE the highest point (mountains) of LAND (which Earth IS expressly DRY LAND).
Gen: 17, 18, 19, 20
Pay close attention to Gen 19:
Gen 19:
[19] And the waters prevailed exceedingly upon the earth; and all the high hills, that were under the whole heaven, were covered.
THE WHOLE OF HEAVEN…
Study of HEAVEN reveals in Scripture, the WHOLE OF HEAVEN is described in a manner of THREE HEAVENS….
The Highest…Gods Estate, pure Light.
The Mid…Created Celestial spirits Estate.
The barrier…Clouds
The Lower…Above Earths (dry land) highest point (mountains).
Noah’s Ark was LIFTED some 20+ feet ABOVE the Earth’s mountain tops.
Noah WAS IN the Ark, IN the Clouds, IN the Lower Heavens.
Continued…
AND…EXPRESSLY REVEALED…EIGHT of mankind Were EXCEPTED, ESCAPED….
Gods Anger, Gods Wrath, Gods FIRST Great Tribulation God Sent Down from Heaven.
WHY? Gods Anger, Wrath, Tribulation?
Gen 6:5. Evil of man
Gen 6:6 Wickedness of man
Gen 6:6 Sorrow for creating man
Gen 6:7 Pledge to destroy man
OH…Wait…
Gen 6:8 SEES GRACE IN ONE MAN…NOAH
Gen 6:13 Will destroy man with the Earth
Gen 6:17 Will destroy man with A FLOOD.
Gen 6:18 A Promise Pack between God & Noah.
God instructs Noah to build an Ark, the specifics of design, the necessary time to construct, when to enter, who shall enter with Noah, and God shut the door. Seven days thereafter, rain began to fall.
Rain continued to fall, AND waters From under the earth raised up adding more water upon the face of the earth.
The Ark was lifted up ABOVE the face of the earth, to the face of the waters.
The Ark raised up so high, it was approximately 40 + feet ABOVE the highest point (mountains) of LAND (which Earth IS expressly DRY LAND).
Gen: 17, 18, 19, 20
Pay close attention to Gen 19:
Gen 19:
[19] And the waters prevailed exceedingly upon the earth; and all the high hills, that were under the whole heaven, were covered.
THE WHOLE OF HEAVEN…
Study of HEAVEN reveals in Scripture, the WHOLE OF HEAVEN is described in a manner of THREE HEAVENS….
The Highest…Gods Estate, pure Light.
The Mid…Created Celestial spirits Estate.
The barrier…Clouds
The Lower…Above Earths (dry land) highest point (mountains).
Noah’s Ark was LIFTED some 20+ feet ABOVE the Earth’s mountain tops.
Noah WAS IN the Ark, IN the Clouds, IN the Lower Heavens.
Continued…
Continued…
NOW turn to Scripture regarding Gods Great Second and Last GREAT TRIBULATION.
WHO, shall it APPLY TO?
WHO, shall be EXCEPTED, ESCAPE, and WHY?
The destruction SHALL again come Down from Heaven, and come UPON the face of the Earth and the inhabitants ON the face of the Earth killed.
The EXCEPTED who shall ESCAPE, ARE those “IN” Christ, WHO have already willingly, freely, GIVEN their body unto dead; FOR THE Lord God, to have, claim, except FROM Gods anger, wrath, tribulations.
The EXCEPTED (nothing new under the sun), SHALL BE Called UP, RISEN UP, CAUGHT UP, RAPTURED UP (whatever term one prefers to use, all means the same event).
1 THES 4:16-17
from the face of the earth, above the mountain tops, to the CLOUDS ….. WHILE the face of the Earth is being destroyed…..with FIRE….(BECAUSE, God promised He would not AGAIN destroy the Earth with Water….BUT DID reveal He would destroy the Earth with FIRE.)
It is a parallel….to NOAH’S experience…
It is a parallel….of a repeat expectation…
(Luke 17: 26-30)
It is a parallel….to John the Baptists WATER “cleansing” Baptism of man.
It is a parallel….to Christ Jesus’ SPIRIT “purifying” Baptism of man.
It is a parallel….to Destruction of mans habitat.
It is a parallel….to Destruction of man occupying his habitat.
It is a parallel…to SAVING a man FROM DESTRUCTION, is accomplished BY LIFTING the man UP from the face of his habitat/estate.
Both was NOAH , AND ARE men IN Christ, FOUND in the EYES of the LORD, IN Gods GRACE….
Neither was NOAH, OR men IN CHRIST appointed to SUFFER, GOD being ANGRY with THEM, to SUFFER Gods Great Tribulation sent down from Heaven, to be DESTROYED by the Earth….
BUT…LIKE Noah…the BUT..
Gen 6:8 … a man IN Gods GRACE, excepted, escaped BY expressly ….
THE MAN, (as did NOAH), Prepare (according to Gods instructions)…
AND (like NOAH), when God Sends Down from Heaven His GREAT TRIBULATION upon the face of the Earth…
the man SHALL be LIFTED UP OFF the face of the Earth….TO the Clouds…
1 Thes 4: 17-18 And forever more BE WITH the Lord.
And where exactly might the Lord BE?
Now IN HIS world, High Heaven.
He shall descend to the Clouds, Lower Heaven.
He shall call up, lift up His faithful IN Gods Grace (aka IN CHRIST)…to Him.
He shall appear to men, as the Son of Man, on a white cloud, that ALL natural mens eyes can see.
He shall reap the Earth … dividing, separating, THOSE with Him…and THOSE without Him.
WHO IS HIM…? The Son of Man, The Lord.
WHO IS the Son of Man, The Lord? Jesus.
WHO is WITH the Son of Man, The Lord? (Those IN CHRIST).
What is the DIFFERENCE? IN Christ, IN Jesus?
IN Christ…ARE IN Gods GRACE, because they LAID down their LIFE, crucified with Jesus.
IN Jesus…Believe but have NOT YET laid down their Life!
BEFORE the last Great Tribulation….
IN Christ are risen up.
DURING the last Great Tribulation…
IN Jesus and AGAINST Jesus are Separated…
Rev 14: 14-16
Those IN Jesus give their life unto Death for God. Their body’s dead, Their souls Saved and rise to Heaven.
** (Another EXCEPTION) Some IN Jesus, escape Being Killed, by Satan, by God, by the Tribulations. Remain Mortal believers…and will repopulate the Earth, DURING Christ’s Millennial Reign.
Those Against Jesus continue to live, and continue to experience, Gods Wrath and Tribulations; The VIALS.
Because of the VIALS, ALL against God, will become bodily dead, and their souls sent to hell.
Satan, with his band of demonic angels, shall be SENT to hell, for a period of one thousand years.
CHRIST JESUS and His Faithful IN Christ shall return to Earth, and occupy CHRIST’S KINGDOM (Abraham’s Promised Land)…
AND the Remnant of mortal believers IN Jesus, shall begin establishing cities, nations, and appointing kings to rule their Nations.
The Nations ruling kings, shall rule according to KING CHRIST JESUS’ Word/Law.
All in harmony, as the population increases, mortals live, reproduce, die natural mortal deaths….for 1,000 years….VOID of Satan’s influence.
Return of Satan to earth….Satan’s influence AGAIN on the nations of mortals….ear tickling lies, greed, power, wealth….AGAIN intrigues men….and WAR of the ALL the Nations AGAINST KING CHRIST’S KINGDOM ensues….for a brief moment…
THEY are DESTROYED, by the TWO EDGED SWORD (WORD OF GOD) of KING CHRIST JESUS….and (FIRE) FROM God sent down UPON them.
AND…
WAR between holy and demonic Angels ensue. Holy Angels triumph, Demonic Angels are Sent for eternity to the Lake of Fire IN Hell.
ALL men, WHO….were crucified with Christ Jesus (aka called IN Christ)….and Already with their KING … they having been ON Earth, Raised UP above the face of the Earth to Escape Gods Tribulations Upon the Earth, and having RETURNED to Earth WITH Christ, for 1,000 years……Remain on Earth, as the WHOLE Earth is Renewed….and the New Jerusalem is sent down from Heaven….
AND?
What about those who LIVED and DIED “IN” Jesus….(but yet never became “IN” Christ”?)
THEY are the BODLY raised UP ……
BY THE Lord??? No…BY GOD…
1 Thes 4:14
from their Graves, TO the Face of the NEW EARTH, IN their NEW glorified BODY, and their saved soul and quickened spirit RETURNED to their BODY, and THEY occupy the face of the Earth forever, with THEIR God, who is WITH them and GOD of the WHOLE WORLD(S)…Heaven and Earth.
WHEN???
Rev 20:
[5] But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
AND WHAT is it called ???
WHEN the “rest” of the DEAD (IN Jesus) are raise up?
The First Resurrection.
Being RAISED UP, by the Lord unto the Lord, is called the RAPTURE, (caught UP)
(1 Thes 4: 16-17) and it applies to those IN Christ, who are NOT Appointed to WRATH,
(1 Thes 5:9) Gods Anger, or to Suffer Gods Great tribulations.
Being RAISED UP, by God unto God, is called the FIRST RESURRECTION.
Being RAISED UP, by God unto Damnation, is called the LAST RESURRECTION.
@David in NJ
There has never been found in Scripture(and never can be found) a single pre-trib rapture passage, declaration or prophecy.
DISAGREE. Scripture notifies us expressly of what was, who it applied to, and why, and Prophetic Scripture of expressly what Shall Again come to pass and who it Shall apply to and why.
Glory to God,
Taken
NOW turn to Scripture regarding Gods Great Second and Last GREAT TRIBULATION.
WHO, shall it APPLY TO?
WHO, shall be EXCEPTED, ESCAPE, and WHY?
The destruction SHALL again come Down from Heaven, and come UPON the face of the Earth and the inhabitants ON the face of the Earth killed.
The EXCEPTED who shall ESCAPE, ARE those “IN” Christ, WHO have already willingly, freely, GIVEN their body unto dead; FOR THE Lord God, to have, claim, except FROM Gods anger, wrath, tribulations.
The EXCEPTED (nothing new under the sun), SHALL BE Called UP, RISEN UP, CAUGHT UP, RAPTURED UP (whatever term one prefers to use, all means the same event).
1 THES 4:16-17
from the face of the earth, above the mountain tops, to the CLOUDS ….. WHILE the face of the Earth is being destroyed…..with FIRE….(BECAUSE, God promised He would not AGAIN destroy the Earth with Water….BUT DID reveal He would destroy the Earth with FIRE.)
It is a parallel….to NOAH’S experience…
It is a parallel….of a repeat expectation…
(Luke 17: 26-30)
It is a parallel….to John the Baptists WATER “cleansing” Baptism of man.
It is a parallel….to Christ Jesus’ SPIRIT “purifying” Baptism of man.
It is a parallel….to Destruction of mans habitat.
It is a parallel….to Destruction of man occupying his habitat.
It is a parallel…to SAVING a man FROM DESTRUCTION, is accomplished BY LIFTING the man UP from the face of his habitat/estate.
Both was NOAH , AND ARE men IN Christ, FOUND in the EYES of the LORD, IN Gods GRACE….
Neither was NOAH, OR men IN CHRIST appointed to SUFFER, GOD being ANGRY with THEM, to SUFFER Gods Great Tribulation sent down from Heaven, to be DESTROYED by the Earth….
BUT…LIKE Noah…the BUT..
Gen 6:8 … a man IN Gods GRACE, excepted, escaped BY expressly ….
THE MAN, (as did NOAH), Prepare (according to Gods instructions)…
AND (like NOAH), when God Sends Down from Heaven His GREAT TRIBULATION upon the face of the Earth…
the man SHALL be LIFTED UP OFF the face of the Earth….TO the Clouds…
1 Thes 4: 17-18 And forever more BE WITH the Lord.
And where exactly might the Lord BE?
Now IN HIS world, High Heaven.
He shall descend to the Clouds, Lower Heaven.
He shall call up, lift up His faithful IN Gods Grace (aka IN CHRIST)…to Him.
He shall appear to men, as the Son of Man, on a white cloud, that ALL natural mens eyes can see.
He shall reap the Earth … dividing, separating, THOSE with Him…and THOSE without Him.
WHO IS HIM…? The Son of Man, The Lord.
WHO IS the Son of Man, The Lord? Jesus.
WHO is WITH the Son of Man, The Lord? (Those IN CHRIST).
What is the DIFFERENCE? IN Christ, IN Jesus?
IN Christ…ARE IN Gods GRACE, because they LAID down their LIFE, crucified with Jesus.
IN Jesus…Believe but have NOT YET laid down their Life!
BEFORE the last Great Tribulation….
IN Christ are risen up.
DURING the last Great Tribulation…
IN Jesus and AGAINST Jesus are Separated…
Rev 14: 14-16
Those IN Jesus give their life unto Death for God. Their body’s dead, Their souls Saved and rise to Heaven.
** (Another EXCEPTION) Some IN Jesus, escape Being Killed, by Satan, by God, by the Tribulations. Remain Mortal believers…and will repopulate the Earth, DURING Christ’s Millennial Reign.
Those Against Jesus continue to live, and continue to experience, Gods Wrath and Tribulations; The VIALS.
Because of the VIALS, ALL against God, will become bodily dead, and their souls sent to hell.
Satan, with his band of demonic angels, shall be SENT to hell, for a period of one thousand years.
CHRIST JESUS and His Faithful IN Christ shall return to Earth, and occupy CHRIST’S KINGDOM (Abraham’s Promised Land)…
AND the Remnant of mortal believers IN Jesus, shall begin establishing cities, nations, and appointing kings to rule their Nations.
The Nations ruling kings, shall rule according to KING CHRIST JESUS’ Word/Law.
All in harmony, as the population increases, mortals live, reproduce, die natural mortal deaths….for 1,000 years….VOID of Satan’s influence.
Return of Satan to earth….Satan’s influence AGAIN on the nations of mortals….ear tickling lies, greed, power, wealth….AGAIN intrigues men….and WAR of the ALL the Nations AGAINST KING CHRIST’S KINGDOM ensues….for a brief moment…
THEY are DESTROYED, by the TWO EDGED SWORD (WORD OF GOD) of KING CHRIST JESUS….and (FIRE) FROM God sent down UPON them.
AND…
WAR between holy and demonic Angels ensue. Holy Angels triumph, Demonic Angels are Sent for eternity to the Lake of Fire IN Hell.
ALL men, WHO….were crucified with Christ Jesus (aka called IN Christ)….and Already with their KING … they having been ON Earth, Raised UP above the face of the Earth to Escape Gods Tribulations Upon the Earth, and having RETURNED to Earth WITH Christ, for 1,000 years……Remain on Earth, as the WHOLE Earth is Renewed….and the New Jerusalem is sent down from Heaven….
AND?
What about those who LIVED and DIED “IN” Jesus….(but yet never became “IN” Christ”?)
THEY are the BODLY raised UP ……
BY THE Lord??? No…BY GOD…
1 Thes 4:14
from their Graves, TO the Face of the NEW EARTH, IN their NEW glorified BODY, and their saved soul and quickened spirit RETURNED to their BODY, and THEY occupy the face of the Earth forever, with THEIR God, who is WITH them and GOD of the WHOLE WORLD(S)…Heaven and Earth.
WHEN???
Rev 20:
[5] But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
AND WHAT is it called ???
WHEN the “rest” of the DEAD (IN Jesus) are raise up?
The First Resurrection.
Being RAISED UP, by the Lord unto the Lord, is called the RAPTURE, (caught UP)
(1 Thes 4: 16-17) and it applies to those IN Christ, who are NOT Appointed to WRATH,
(1 Thes 5:9) Gods Anger, or to Suffer Gods Great tribulations.
Being RAISED UP, by God unto God, is called the FIRST RESURRECTION.
Being RAISED UP, by God unto Damnation, is called the LAST RESURRECTION.
@David in NJ
There has never been found in Scripture(and never can be found) a single pre-trib rapture passage, declaration or prophecy.
DISAGREE. Scripture notifies us expressly of what was, who it applied to, and why, and Prophetic Scripture of expressly what Shall Again come to pass and who it Shall apply to and why.
Glory to God,
Taken
Last edited:
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
Let us, together in Christ, rejoice together and Break Bread.
Noah lived on earth during the Greatest Tribulation the world had ever seen.
Mankind, along with the fallen angels, had corrupted themselves to such extent that God had to destroy all flesh off of the earth.
Noah endured to the End = just as the LORD Jesus commands us = "but he who endures to the end will be saved".
Noah was only (most important) only delivered from God's Wrath = Noah entered the Ark and God shut the Door.
There are no OT Prophets or Prophecies or Allegories of Called Out Saint(s) being pre-trib raptured.
Next we will look at Enoch and see if he was pre-trib raptured.
"and to wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, even Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come."
IN JESUS… is people CONVERTING “IN” Jesus (which is they who before their bodily death CONFESS they BELIEVE Jesus lived, Jesus died and God raised Him UP….)
Thereafter those who ALSO CONFESS JESUS IS the Christ the SON of the Living God, ARE they “IN” Christ.
For the Last 2,000 YEARS, men have been becoming….IN Jesus…..and some both IN JESUS and IN CHRIST.
BELIEF IN JESUS … was revealed by other mens observation of the man becoming Baptized in Water called John’s Baptism.
BELIEF IN CHRIST … was pronounced by other men Hearing the Confession of men claiming to BELIEVE Jesus IS THE CHRIST, the SON of the LIVING GOD…
TWO different Baptisms’.
TWO different Results.
IN Christ SHALL be Bodily risen UP, to the clouds (By the Lord) before the Tribulation, and Return to Earth with Christ Jesus AFTER the tribulation for 1,000 years.
Called the RAPTURE.
IN Jesus (only) SHALL be Bodily risen UP from their graves to the face of the Earth, (BY God) after the Tribulation.
Called the FIRST RESURRECTION, After the 1,000 years.
AGAINST the Lord God SHALL be Bodily risen UP (in hell), After the 1,000 years.
Called the LAST RESURRECTION.
Glory to God,
Taken
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
But the rapture is not HIs return!!!! HIs return is at the end of the Tribulation when He comes back to earth. at the Rapture, Jesus opnly descends to the atmosphere at most, so it is not HIs return.
And when you read Thessalonians, the rapture is for ALL in Christ- not just select categories.
ewq1938
Well-Known Member
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ewq1938
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Nothing but the return is the return but the rapture does take place during the return, just after the resurrection of all the saved dead.
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
you can think that if you wish, but that is unbiblical! At the Rapture, only the dead in Christ (the church) are raised! OT saints and Tribulation saints are risen at different times. And we leave before the tribulation starts. anywhere between now and when Israel signs a 7 year covenant with the AC which begins the 70th week of Daniel aka the tribulation.
Timtofly
Well-Known Member
Jesus is sitting on His throne in Jerusalem during the Trumpets and Thunders. So unless Jesus moves Jerusalem and surrounding area, up into the clouds, He puts His feet on the Mount of Olives at the 6th Seal on the surface of the earth, and not the clouds.
Jacob's trouble is for Jacob, and most will be goats. But a remnant of Israel will be spared, and those are the sheep. That is Matthew 25:31. This is not after Jacob's trouble, but the cause of Jacob's trouble. Jesus is on the earth stirring things up. The church has been removed and the time of the fulness of the Gentiles is over. The church does not go through the Trumpets nor the Thunders. That is the time of the GT; Jacob's Trouble. You all should start calling it JT.
Many want to call it CT. The church has had great tribulation since 30AD. The Greatest Trouble will be after the Second Coming and focused on Jacob.
If you all don't like the church believers being turned into goats, left behind, and tossed into the LOF, stop thinking the church is going to endure Jacob's trouble during the Trumpets and Thunders. It is post Satan's 42 months where people's interpretation is wrong. Armageddon is not the Second Coming. Armageddon is the return to take back earth after Satan's 42 months. The 7th Trumpet may be both the victory, and then Daniel 9:27 might kick in. If Daniel 9:27 does not happen, then no 42 months, no AoD, and no Armageddon. No Matthew 24:15-20, period.
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
According to your reinterpretation of the Bible, but not according to the bible as written. You would have Jesus on earth when God is pouring out His fierce wrath against the earth!
And Jesus does not put His feet on the Mount of Olives and splits it in two until He defeats teh armies of the antichrist, defeats teh antichrist and false prophet, then moves on Jerusalem.
You would have Jesus sitting watching the antichrist rise from the dead, and the false prophet make the image come alive and order all on earth take the mark and sit there twiddiling His thumgbs!
Timtofly
Well-Known Member
The Trumpets are not God's "fierce wrath", as that is your interpretation, and Not how God's Word is read.
The 7 vials are God's wrath, and only those with the mark are alive at that point. Not even the 2 witnesses are alive. They are laying dead in Jerusalem during the 7 vials.
Jesus, and the sheep and wheat are not on earth during Satan's 42 months. That is the time those who are beheaded make that choice to avoid the mark.
The Trumpets and Thunders are not Satan's 42 months, but the GT.
Timtofly
Well-Known Member
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
Revelation 8
King James Version
8 And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour.2 And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets.
3 And another angel came and stood at the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given unto him much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne.
4 And the smoke of the incense, which came with the prayers of the saints, ascended up before God out of the angel's hand.
5 And the angel took the censer, and filled it with fire of the altar, and cast it into the earth: and there were voices, and thunderings, and lightnings, and an earthquake.
6 And the seven angels which had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound.
These angels are given their trumpets in heaven before God. this is Gods judgments.
You said Jesus comes down tro reign before the trumpets. Now you are sayhing He stops reigning! Did you create your own bible? It sure sounds like it.
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
YOU really do not know the word of God do you. For if you did know His Word you would not have made such a completely unintelligent statement about what Jesus has been doing.
Timtofly
Well-Known Member
That is not what I said. Jesus comes to earth to sit on His throne in judgment of the nations at the 6th Seal. The Trumpets are the call to assembly for all of Israel. Yes judgment happens. There are 2 woes as well at the sounding of the 5th and 6th Trumpet.
The 3rd woe is if Satan is allowed to sit on that throne of Jesus in Jerusalem. What other throne do you think Satan sits on and claims to be God?
"Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God."
Jesus does not stop reigning any more than he has ever stopped reigning. But for this verse to happen, Satan has to be given more authority than ever before.
"And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate."
God and Jesus do not stop reigning. But for 42 months Satan has 100% authority on earth in the same manner as given in Job to test Job. God did not stop being God, because Satan was allowed to do what he did to Job. Jesus and Satan don't co-reign on the same throne.
Revelation 13 claims the saints are overcome. That does not mean Jesus and the 144k were killed and defeated. It means that Satan had full access to reign over the earth and Jesus and the 144k waited on the heavenly mount Zion for 42 months.
"And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads. And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps: And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth. These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb. And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God."
You claim 7 years is split in half for Satan's 42 months, no? Does Jesus ever stop reigning because of these 42 months that happen after the 7th Trumpet sounds? Does not the 7th Trumpet declare Jesus has all authority, and then the next moment Satan comes and sits in that temple in Jerusalem? Does that mean Jesus stops reigning to you?
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