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Anti-vaxxers

Discussion in 'Ethics & Morality Forum' started by aspen, Jan 9, 2020.

  1. Heart2Soul

    Heart2Soul Spiritual Warrior Staff Member

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    They are to children under the age of 5.
     
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  2. Cristo Rei

    Cristo Rei Well-Known Member

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    Well according to your reference measles isn't dangerous to anyone.
    I know that mumps, rubella, rotavirus, hep b aren't dangerous as well.
    So why are we vaccinating against such mild diseases?

    There are over 60 vaccines that American kids take now with about 300 in development... When will u say hang on a sec... Why so many
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2020
  3. Cristo Rei

    Cristo Rei Well-Known Member

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    And what do say about so many experts who have concerns over vaccines?

    Doctors and Scientists with Concerns About Vaccines

    Why are they trying so hard to block these expert opinions, to stop this discussion? It unscientific.


    This link is a good one, it has 3 short videos of doctors giving their opinions...
    Are you objective enough to even watch them or are u so entrenched in your position that u will dismiss these experts as goons or something?

    Doctors Against Vaccines: The other side of the story is not being told
     
  4. Cristo Rei

    Cristo Rei Well-Known Member

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    Also how do u justify the pharma industry spending the most on lobbying?
    How do u justify the lower standard of testing for vaccines?
    How do u justify the government giving vaccine makers immunity from liability?

    Please think critically like a scientist, be skeptical. Something isn't right for these experts to be speaking out
    And for them to be suppressed from discussing their scientific opinion means that something is really wrong.

    In Australia doctors who give advise against the vaccine schedule can be charged and punished.
    This is anti science, its extortion, a doctor or scientist should always be able to give their opinion.

    The motivation to push vaccines is clear, money. But what could possibly be the motivation of these experts?
    They aren't gaining anything, in fact they are often ostracized.

    Stop looking at this like its a bunch of stupid people who have no idea and look at it properly
     
  5. Sabertooth

    Sabertooth Well-Known Member

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    In most of the articles, "autism" means ASD2 & ASD3 (a.k.a. Millennial or "Short-Bus" autism). Base autism (without complications; "Long-Bus" autism) is closely related to intellectual giftedness. Having both at the same time is called Twice Exceptional or 2e (not just theory; IR1).

    Is Autism Associated with Higher Intelligence?

    Organizations like
    deal with the whole spectrum, not just those grievous cases that require more pressing intervention.

    These use the term "autism spectrum" differently than the "cure" crowd, above. We do not see autism, itself, as needing a cure, but the unprecedented severe co-morbid conditions that accompany ASD2 & ASD3 that need to be medically addressed. A "cured" ASD2 or 3 is an ASD1. The "cure" crowd [like Autism Speaks] does not embrace that paradigm. Sound Choice Pharmaceutical Institute does not embrace that paradigm, either, but they offer the best rationale for what is turning ASD1s into ASD2s & 3s. And this theory meshes well with the findings of a Dr. Martha Herbert.
    Autism Changepoints
    [​IMG]
    -----------------------
    [​IMG]
    2014: California DDS Cases By Birth Year
    (ASD2/3 cases only; ASD1 does not require DDS services)
    2014-CA DDS Cases By Birth Year
    (I was part of a research team that assisted a Dr. Marlo Payne Thurman in writing her doctoral dissertation. It is now a book, "Autism Is The Future.")
     
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  6. Heart2Soul

    Heart2Soul Spiritual Warrior Staff Member

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    Calm down! I have studied both sides and whatever you believe continue to believe. I will continue to believe what I believe.
    No need getting so riled up just because we view things differently.
     
  7. Heart2Soul

    Heart2Soul Spiritual Warrior Staff Member

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    So did the links I provided....so I think they are explaining the same thing.
     
  8. Heart2Soul

    Heart2Soul Spiritual Warrior Staff Member

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    Read it again....if you are going to misquote any data I share then I am done discussing with you.
     
  9. Sabertooth

    Sabertooth Well-Known Member

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    1. Your links presume that base autism [ASD1] is a defect along with the rest of the spectrum.
    2. Dr. Martha Herbert's rationale is that ASD1 is an inherited, viable neurology similar to intellectual giftedness. That autism is not the problem, but rather a post-natal injury on-top-of autism is.
    3. SCPI has a viable theory for said injury.
    The reason why it was proven that vaccines do not cause autism is because they do not. Particular ones turn healthy autistics into brain-damaged autistics.

    (Also,
    1. The fetal cells used to develop the vaccines in question were taken in elective abortions.* I believe that the murder aspect adds a curse element to their continued use.
    2. Dr. Theresa Deisher (of SCPI) says that the use of embryonic stem cells, generally, have had more grievous side-effects than the use of adult stem cells have.
    * Children of God for Life has extensive documentation of this.)
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2020
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  10. Cristo Rei

    Cristo Rei Well-Known Member

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    Im not getting riled up. All i did was ask some questions and provided some information

    Are u sure ur not the one who needs to calm down... LoL... If I missed something just tell me where.
    This is what it says on page 8

    Measles can be a serious in all age groups. However, children younger than 5 years of age and adults older than 20 years of age are more likely to suffer from measles complications.
    * Common Complications

    • Common measles complications include ear infections and diarrhea.
    • Ear infections occur in about one out of every 10 children with measles and can result in permanent hearing loss.
    • Diarrhea is reported in less than one out of 10 people with measles.

    * Severe Complications
    • Some people may suffer from severe complications, such as pneumonia (infection of the lungs) and encephalitis (swelling of the brain). They may need to be hospitalized and could die. • As many as one out of every 20 children with measles gets pneumonia, the most common cause of death from measles in young children.
    • About one child out of every 1,000 who get measles will develop encephalitis (swelling of the brain) that can lead to convulsions and can leave the child deaf or with intellectual disability.
    • For every
    1,000 children who get measles, one or two will die from it.
    * Long-term Complications
    • Subacute sclerosingpanencephalitis(SSPE) is a very rare, but fatal disease of the central nervous system that results from a measles virus infection acquired earlier in life. SSPE generally develops 7 to 10 years after a person has measles, even thou gh the person seems to have fully recovered from the illness. Since measles was eliminated in 2000, SSPE is rarely reported in t he United States.
    • Among people who contracted measles during the resurgence in the United States in 1989 to 1991,
    4 to 11 out of every 100,000 were estimated to be at risk for developing SSPE. The risk of developing SSPE may be higher for a person who gets measles before they are two years of age. 8

    It says that a child under 5 is more likely to suffer from measles complications.
    The fatality rate is 0.1% to 0.2%. Kids under 5 are more likely so perhaps doubling those numbers would be reasonable


    If you wanted to include every country one of your links says
    there were 9,769,400 estimated measles cases and 142,300 related deaths globally in 2018
    That is a fatality rate of under 1.5%

    Fair enough.
    To dismiss the opposing view as "conspiracy theories" and ostracize the people as "anti-vaxers" like many people do is anti-science. Then to demand that others must vax their kids when there is that much differing expert opinions isn't logical and quite dangerous...

    One doctor said that this could be the worse case scenario;
    They enforce the covid vax on everyone. Five or Ten years later people start to die from a major organ failure. This leads to mankind becoming an extinct species.
    It could easily happen as we don't know the long term effects, some of the methods they are trying for the first time and the rush they are in means they are cutting corners.


    Anywayz God Bless
     
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  11. Prayer Warrior

    Prayer Warrior Well-Known Member

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    You missed my sarcasm. I agree with you.
     
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  12. Prayer Warrior

    Prayer Warrior Well-Known Member

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    The problem with this statement is that the medical community doesn't know all of the risks until they conduct longterm tests on human subjects of various ages....


    Int J Environ Res Public Health. 2015 Feb; 12(2): 1295–1313.
    Published online 2015 Jan 23. doi: 10.3390/ijerph120201295

    PMCID: PMC4344667
    PMID: 25625408

    Exposure to Mercury and Aluminum in Early Life: Developmental Vulnerability as a Modifying Factor in Neurologic and Immunologic Effects
    José G. Dórea
    Paul B. Tchounwou, Academic Editor

    Abstract
    Currently, ethylmercury (EtHg) and adjuvant-Al are the dominating interventional exposures encountered by fetuses, newborns, and infants due to immunization with Thimerosal-containing vaccines (TCVs).
    Despite their long use as active agents of medicines and fungicides, the safety levels of these substances have never been determined, either for animals or for adult humans—much less for fetuses, newborns, infants, and children. I reviewed the literature for papers reporting on outcomes associated with (a) multiple exposures and metabolism of EtHg and Al during early life; (b) physiological and metabolic characteristics of newborns, neonates, and infants relevant to xenobiotic exposure and effects; (c) neurobehavioral, immunological, and inflammatory reactions to Thimerosal and Al-adjuvants resulting from TCV exposure in infancy. Immunological and neurobehavioral effects of Thimerosal-EtHg and Al-adjuvants are not extraordinary; rather, these effects are easily detected in high and low income countries, with co-exposure to methylmercury (MeHg) or other neurotoxicants. Rigorous and replicable studies (in different animal species) have shown evidence of EtHg and Al toxicities. More research attention has been given to EtHg and findings have showed a solid link with neurotoxic effects in humans; however, the potential synergic effect of both toxic agents has not been properly studied. Therefore, early life exposure to both EtHg and Al deserves due consideration....

    Summing up: Rigorous and replicable studies (in different animal species) have shown evidence of EtHg, and of Al toxicities. More research attention has been given to EtHg and findings have showed a solid link with neurotoxic effects in humans; however, the potential synergic effect of both toxic agents has not been properly studied. Therefore, early life exposure to both EtHg and Al deserves due consideration.

    Source: Exposure to Mercury and Aluminum in Early Life: Developmental Vulnerability as a Modifying Factor in Neurologic and Immunologic Effects
     
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2020
  13. Prayer Warrior

    Prayer Warrior Well-Known Member

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    Slow CCL2-dependent translocation of biopersistent particles from muscle to brain
    • BMC Medicine volume 11, Article number: 99 (2013) Cite this articleAbstract
      Background
      Long-term biodistribution of nanomaterials used in medicine is largely unknown. This is the case for alum, the most widely used vaccine adjuvant, which is a nanocrystalline compound spontaneously forming micron/submicron-sized agglomerates. Although generally well tolerated, alum is occasionally detected within monocyte-lineage cells long after immunization in presumably susceptible individuals with systemic/neurologic manifestations or autoimmune (inflammatory) syndrome induced by adjuvants (ASIA).

      Methods
      On the grounds of preliminary investigations in 252 patients with alum-associated ASIA showing both a selective increase of circulating CCL2, the major monocyte chemoattractant, and a variation in the CCL2 gene, we designed mouse experiments to assess biodistribution of vaccine-derived aluminum and of alum-particle fluorescent surrogates injected in muscle. Aluminum was detected in tissues by Morin stain and particle induced X-ray emission) (PIXE) Both 500 nm fluorescent latex beads and vaccine alum agglomerates-sized nanohybrids (Al-Rho) were used.

      Results
      Intramuscular injection of alum-containing vaccine was associated with the appearance of aluminum deposits in distant organs, such as spleen and brain where they were still detected one year after injection. Both fluorescent materials injected into muscle translocated to draining lymph nodes (DLNs) and thereafter were detected associated with phagocytes in blood and spleen. Particles linearly accumulated in the brain up to the six-month endpoint; they were first found in perivascular CD11b+ cells and then in microglia and other neural cells. DLN ablation dramatically reduced the biodistribution. Cerebral translocation was not observed after direct intravenous injection, but significantly increased in mice with chronically altered blood-brain-barrier. Loss/gain-of-function experiments consistently implicated CCL2 in systemic diffusion of Al-Rho particles captured by monocyte-lineage cells and in their subsequent neurodelivery. Stereotactic particle injection pointed out brain retention as a factor of progressive particle accumulation.

      Conclusion
      Nanomaterials can be transported by monocyte-lineage cells to DLNs, blood and spleen, and, similarly to HIV, may use CCL2-dependent mechanisms to penetrate the brain. This occurs at a very low rate in normal conditions explaining good overall tolerance of alum despite its strong neurotoxic potential. However, continuously escalating doses of this poorly biodegradable adjuvant in the population may become insidiously unsafe, especially in the case of overimmunization or immature/altered blood brain barrier or high constitutive CCL-2 production.

      Read entire article here: Slow CCL2-dependent translocation of biopersistent particles from muscle to brain
     
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2020
  14. Cristo Rei

    Cristo Rei Well-Known Member

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    Oops, my bad
     
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  15. Prayer Warrior

    Prayer Warrior Well-Known Member

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    Front Neurol. 2015; 6: 4.
    Published online 2015 Feb 5. doi: 10.3389/fneur.2015.00004
    PMCID: PMC4318414
    PMID: 25699008
    Biopersistence and Brain Translocation of Aluminum Adjuvants of Vaccines

    Table 1

    Main unsolved questions linked to alum adjuvants toxic effects.

    WHAT IS THE MOST TOXIC?
    Al3+metal toxicity (or allergy to Al)
    Particle toxicity due to elementary nanoparticles, e.g., mitochondrial toxicity, or to the micronic agglomerates they form, e.g., proinflammatory effects
    Immune reactions against biopersistent biomolecules adsorbed on alum, and protected from degradation until complete particle solubilization (vaccine antigen or trace residual DNA sequences linked to vaccine production, or even self-antigens adsorbed on alum at time of injection-induced muscle necrosis)
    WHAT FACTORS CONTRIBUTE TO BIOPERSISTENCE?
    The quantity administered
    Adsorbed molecules impeding extracellular solubilization and/or favoring phagocytosis of alum particles
    Crystalline structure of the adjuvant damaging lipid bilayers (e.g., lysosomes)
    WHAT FACTORS CONTRIBUTE TO BRAIN TRANSLOCATION?
    Al3+ ion transport by transferrin (receptors present in CNS increase with iron deficiency)
    Direct BBB damage by alum particles (proportion and kinetics in the circulation are unknown)
    Monocyte cell transport of particles (the MCP1/CCL2-dependent Troian horse mechanism is increased in case of altered BBB and/or neuroinflammation)
    WHAT ARE THE SUSCEPTIBILITY FACTORS?
    Individual environment (other exposures to Al, exposure to other metals, exposure to other particles, chronic viral infection)
    Age of immunization, including early age (low body weight, immature BBB, early neurodevelopmental stage) and old age (increased MCP-1/CCL2 production, progressive BBB weakness, hidden neuropathological processes)
    Genetic factors impacting either immunologic responses (e.g., HLA genotypes) or intracellular persistence of particles (xeno/autophagy genes), or neuromigration (chimiokines and other inflammation genes)

    Source: Biopersistence and Brain Translocation of Aluminum Adjuvants of Vaccines
     
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  16. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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    You know what doctors say. It depends on who you ask. You are convinced that it can't.

    And to be clear, I'm sure he would have been autistic anyway, much of my family is high functioning autistic with above average intelligence. But yes, all of us who know him, who knew him then, are convinced that the vaccine aggravated his autism big time.

    Much love!
     
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  17. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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    I've found some autistic attributes to be very beneficial!
     
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  18. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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    One I haven't found beneficial is poor facial recognition. I can do OK pretty much, except when I see someone where I don't normally see them.

    One time I was walking into a store, and this lady on her way out looks at me, "Hi Mark!" And we had a nice conversation for the next five minutes, she clearly knew me, but I had no idea who she was the entire time. I've learned to wing it pretty good I think! Of course next week at church there she was, been my friend several years, but I only really saw her at church.

    Much love!
     
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  19. Sabertooth

    Sabertooth Well-Known Member

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    Temple Grandin likes to say that a little autism is a good thing. [​IMG]
     
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  20. Prayer Warrior

    Prayer Warrior Well-Known Member

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    Adverse reactions from the Gardasil vaccine

    DR. LUCIJA TOMLIJENOVIC: ADVERSE REACTION STUDIES - ONE MORE GIRL EXCERPTS
     
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2020
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