Are Beliefs and Faith the Same?

[bbyrd009]

Disbelief of something is a rejection of that idea.

 

[bbyrd009]

gotta agree with A here, they really are different. You (one) can refrain from having any opinion at all on a matter, once they have realized this (changed their minds), anyway

 

[bbyrd009]

Amen John
I totally agree...That is how I hold all things...I believe them...but I 'hold them loosely' because I 'could' just be wrong. I doubt it, but I could. That is wisdom.
So many people get angry and rude when told ...'No, you actually do not KNOW, because the time is not yet on the full revelation of all things...then, and then only will we understand the right and wrong of it.'
But, I am having to come to the acceptance that many people will never let go of what they believe and accept a 'deeper truth', because they so arrogantly assert that they are right 100%.
( which means they are totally closed to God working on their heart, and no longer have a teachable spirit before the lord. They are stunted....but they do not know it. )

 

[bbyrd009]

If you believe things that you aren't completely certain about - why do you believe at all??

I don't believe in the Gospel because it MIGHT be a good idea, but I MIGHT be wrong about that.
I believe because I am 100% certain that it is the way to salvation.

If I told you ans Amadeus and bbyrd that Satan was our creator - would you reject that belief or would you simply say you "don't believe" it because you might change your mind later?

If you're not certain about what you believe and WHY you believe it - then your faith is pretty shaky . . .

 

[bbyrd009]

But all their works they do for to be seen of men: they make broad their phylacteries, and enlarge the borders of their garments,

works can be done from faith, or from beliefs, i guess, ya.

 

[Helen]

Okay...but is it at all possible to have this discussion in ref to the question -
" are beliefs and faith the same thing?" without it ending up referencing Protestant v Catholic beliefs!! I am so tired of that subject dominating the Site ..Yawn..
If we can, I'm in...if we can't, I am OUT! :)

 

[Helen]

works can be done from faith, or from beliefs, i guess, ya.

I have mentioned before...good works ( not dead works) you didn't qualify

Must be done in faith...all that we do must be 'by faith'...."for everything that is not of faith is sin." That is why I contend that a "must do"...is not of faith, but dead works to try and appease a legalist God!! But, that has nothing to do with faith and belief being the same. :)

 

[bbyrd009]

I have mentioned before...good works ( not dead works) you didn't qualify

Must be done in faith...all that we do must be 'by faith'...."for everything that is not of faith is sin." That is why I contend that a "must do"...is not of faith, but dead works to try and appease a legalist God!! But, that has nothing to do with faith and belief being the same. :)

i was all set to agree with you, but i see that...the right thing might be done for the wrong reasons, or vice versa, so imo that is not the whole story either, i guess. You say "works must be done in faith," but that is an ideal, not a reality. I am convinced that i have been led into doing the wrong thing by the Holy Spirit, in order to learn a lesson; as weird as that sounds.

 

[Helen]

Forgot to answer the topic .

I believe ...hey, I caught myself right there! lol
I just wrote...I believe ...is that really so...or should I have said " I think"?
So, it looks like belief must have a foundation to rest upon. Right.
So, it is not just a question of it being a 'collection of doctrines, teachings, or concepts' that we have put into our 'christian basket' as we travel through life.
Belief rest on something solid...on SomeOne solid! ✟

So...as I ramble here...I will just say that "at the moment"...(that may change by the end of the thread... :) )
I believe that our beliefs are really what causes us to 'grow in the Lord' and God reveals more of Himself to us.
We believe Him when He speaks to us..we believe that we as a sheep ( son) " hear His voice..and follow by faith , faith IN Him , faith and trust that He will direct His steps.

Short answer... I do not think they are the same because they are mentioned differently in the Word...but that said...I do not think we can have Faith without the act of Believing!! ( Faith is our anchor into the Holiest..Heb ) Faith can see the invisible. Faith draws us on...believe is what we 'do'.
But, well see how the thread unfolds . :)

 

[bbyrd009]

But, that has nothing to do with faith and belief being the same. :)

oh, i thought you had realized a diff there lol. Yes, they can be synonymous, imo.

 

[amadeus]

Okay...but is it at all possible to have this discussion in ref to the question -
" are beliefs and faith the same thing?" without it ending up referencing Protestant v Catholic beliefs!! I am so tired of that subject dominating the Site ..Yawn..
If we can, I'm in...if we can't, I am OUT! :)

Is may be possible for you and hopefully for me, but unfortunately some people too strongly go with "it's my way or the highway" and insist that that is also God's Way. We may all believe that in our own hearts, but if we refuse to admit even the possibility of error in ourselves and/or our particular group or church where is room for discussion?

 

[bbyrd009]

Forgot to answer the topic .

I believe ...hey, I caught myself right there! lol
I just wrote...I believe ...is that really so...or should I have said " I think"?
So, it looks like belief must have a foundation to rest upon. Right.
So it is not just a question of it being a collection of doctrines, teachings, or concepts that we have put into our christian basket as we travel through life.
Belief rest on something solid...on SomeOne solid! ✟
So...as I ramble here...I will just say that "at the moment"...(that may change by the end of the thread... :) )
I believe that our beliefs are really 'growing' in the Lord, we believe Him when He speaks to us..we believe that we as a sheep ( son) " hear His voice..and follow by faith , faith IN Him , faith and trust that He will direct His steps.

Short answer... I do not think they are the same because they are mentioned differently in the Word...but that said...I do not think we can have Faith, without the act of Believing!!
But, well see how the thread unfolds . :)

ta-daa. i'm exporting this to the faith/belief thread, if you don't mind. oh, oops :)

 

[Helen]

ta-daa. i'm exporting this to the faith/belief thread, if you don't mind. oh, oops :)

I thought that this WAS the faith/belief thread!!
If this isn't, where can I find it? :
Thanks

 

[amadeus]

For a long time... perhaps always ...I have considered the two words synonymous as I have read them in scripture. However, I realized long ago that some other people do not support that view and act as if the two words were different and insert that difference into the way they use them. Understanding this can be helpful in communicating with some people. We have either speak the same language or understand the difference between our language and theirs in order to communicate on a given subject.

"Jesus said unto him, If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth.
And straightway the father of the child cried out, and said with tears, Lord, I believe; help thou mine unbelief." Mark 9:23-24

"Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." Heb 11:1

I would see no real difference if the first one were worded this way:

[Jesus said unto him, If thou hast faith, all things are possible to him who has faith.]

And if the second one were worded this way:

[Now belief is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.]

Then consider the situation with the one some have named "doubting Thomas":

"Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.
And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.
Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed." John 20:27-29

This one could be worded this way without a difference in meaning or understanding, could it not?

[Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side; and be not without belief, but with faith.
And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.
Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast had faith: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have had faith."]

If someone see a real difference I am would really like to hear about it.

 

[Helen]

@amadeus We about the old story we all heard long ago.
" Two people can stand on the station platform and believe that the train will come on time at 3pm. At 3pm it arrives..by faith one takes the step and gets on the train. The other does not step forward in faith but remained. " Probably a bad and lame illustration. lol
I believe faith has legs, faith is solid, faith has action, faith is a strong foundation ...as it says "Faith convinces us that God created the world through His word. This means what can be seen was made by something that could not be seen." "Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear."
I think faith comes before believing...but they go hand in hand, along with trust...we could also ask if trust was also the same as faith and belief?
Can they be separated ...probably not ...so, same thing but different

 

[amadeus]

@amadeus We about the old story we all heard long ago.
" Two people can stand on the station platform and believe that the train will come on time at 3pm. At 3pm it arrives..by faith one takes the step and gets on the train. The other does not step forward in faith but remained. " Probably a bad and lame illustration. lol
I believe faith has legs, faith is solid, faith has action, faith is a strong foundation ...as it says "Faith convinces us that God created the world through His word. This means what can be seen was made by something that could not be seen." "Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear."
I think faith comes before believing...but they go hand in hand, along with trust...we could also ask if trust was also the same as faith and belief?
Can they be separated ...probably not ...so, same thing but different

I understand your explanation and I understand that others see a difference, but my point is that there really is no difference in scripture. This is why I exchanged the words above in a few verses to show that there really was no difference.

We can say we have to have faith or we can say we have to have belief and mean exactly the same thing... or we can say there is a difference as you explained, but what does God really say? The difference is in what is in our heart without regard to which of the two words we use.The problem with a person using the two definitions, one for each word, rather than two definitions for two words which are interchangeable is the possibility of misunderstanding each other in a discussion.

Communication is always a problem for people. It always has been. Only when everyone is always listening to and understanding and obeying God in exactly the same measure will there always be perfect understanding. Understanding is, as I see it, measured somewhere between "as through a glass darkly" and "face to face". The same thing occurs between any two words, or any two beliefs, or any two faiths.

Our connection if we are to have a really close connection between any two believers must be through the Holy Spirit. When that connection is perfected as it will be in the complete Body of Christ then there will be no misunderstandings and no arguments.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Is may be possible for you and hopefully for me, but unfortunately some people too strongly go with "it's my way or the highway" and insist that that is also God's Way. We may all believe that in our own hearts, but if we refuse to admit even the possibility of error in ourselves and/or our particular group or church where is room for discussion?

If your sect is not teaching 100% truth - then WHY on earth do you adhere to that belief system??
There is NO room for error in Church teaching.

It's not "MY" way or the highway - it's the CHURCH'S way or the highway.
Jesus gave Supreme Authority to the Magisterium of His Church - not to the individual.

 

[amadeus]

If your sect is not teaching 100% truth - then WHY on earth do you adhere to that belief system??
There is NO room for error in Church teaching.

It's not "MY" way or the highway - it's the CHURCH'S way or the highway.
Jesus gave Supreme Authority to the Magisterium of His Church - not to the individual.

I go to where God leads me, not to where I choose. No one place teaches 100% truth all of the time. Teaching is by and through the Holy Spirit. When a person is in the Spirit and is obeying the Spirit, his message may be right on the money, but no one that I know does that all of the time.

But, remember that even Jesus who did always teach a 100% flawless message, people left Him...

"From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him." John 6:6

 

[BreadOfLife]

I go to where God leads me, not to where I choose. No one place teaches 100% truth all of the time. Teaching is by and through the Holy Spirit. When a person is in the Spirit and is obeying the Spirit, his message may be right on the money, but no one that I know does that all of the time.

But, remember that even Jesus who did always teach a 100% flawless message, people left Him...

"From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him." John 6:6

Christ's Church cannot teach error.

John 16:12-15
“I have much more to tell you, but you cannot bear it now.

But when he comes, the Spirit of truth, he will guide you to ALL truth. He will not speak on his own, but he will speak what he hears, and will declare to YOU the things that are coming.

He will glorify me, because he will TAKE from what is MINE and declare it to YOU.

Everything that the Father has is MINE; for this reason I told you that he will TAKE from what is MINE and declare it to YOU.

 

[amadeus]

Christ's Church cannot teach error.

John 16:12-15
“I have much more to tell you, but you cannot bear it now.

But when he comes, the Spirit of truth, he will guide you to ALL truth. He will not speak on his own, but he will speak what he hears, and will declare to YOU the things that are coming.

He will glorify me, because he will TAKE from what is MINE and declare it to YOU.

Everything that the Father has is MINE; for this reason I told you that he will TAKE from what is MINE and declare it to YOU.

You already know that those verses mean something different to me than they do to you. I believe that the Spirit of truth will guide anyone who is paying attention and is obedient into all truth. You believe that those words were meant for the Church as do I. What the Church is exactly is where we part company.