Are You Spirit Filled Or Still Filling?

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JesusIsFaithful

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ah, you think? Got an example?

One example is how saved believers that speak in tongues for private use will try to wrest the scripture in 1 Corinthians 14th chapter to imply that this is also a "blessing" albeit I 'd say they know not what that tongue is doing unless it was interpreted. They even go so far as to claim ( and quite understandably by errant modern Bibles because of Romans 8:26-27) that the Holy Spirit will use tongues to utter His own intercessions, but no matter what modern Bible they are using, John 16:13 says the Holy Spirit CANNOT speak for Himself but only speaks what He hears and so He cannot use God's gift of tongues for His own purpose of uttering His own intercessions.

The KJV and a few other Bibles maintained that truth of John 16:13 in Romans 8:26-27 in that it declares that the Holy Spirit makes intercessions for us ( indirectly ) in silence since He cannot even utter His own groanings. The "he" that is in Romans 8:27 is Jesus Christ Whom searches the hearts and knows the mind of the Spirit to give the unspoken intercessions of the Spirit's to the Father for the Spirit. That is how one can discern which Bible loves Him to keep His sayings and the sayings of His disciples as He had prophesied in John 14:23-24 & John 15:20 as no lie can be of the truth 1 John 2:20-21 & 1 John 2:27 that the true scripture will point to Jesus in coming to God for life ( John 5:39-40 )

Too wordy? I chose that example to show the battle between Bible versions. So which one is correct?

If all BIBLES has John 16:13 testifying how the Holy Spirit CANNOT speak for Himself but speaks only what He hears, then the KJV is correct in Romans 8:26-27 where it is written that even the groanings of the Holy Spirit cannot be uttered, whereas most other versions implies that sounds are being uttered like "wordless groans" which is ignoring the KJV's meaning that He cannot even utter His groanings.

Some modern Bibles has committed a grammatical error in Romans 8:27 by replacing the "he" at the end of that verse with "the Spirit". How can the "he" which is separate from us in searching our hearts and separate from the Spirit to know the mind of, be "the Spirit" at the conclusion of that verse?

Compare the KJV with the NIV to see my point in seeing the absolute truth on this subject at Bible gateway at the link provided below.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans 8:26-27&version=KJV;NIV

Maybe if you cited an example of scripture from which you seem to think you are not sure of the absolute truth, He might help us both to find.
 

JesusIsFaithful

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notice how you are stating all this as if it were Absolute Truth? What if some little detail in there is wrong?

Well, the only way you can prove it wrong is by the scripture. So what little detail in there that you see as wrong that maybe some scripture you read that you are applying as if that little detail is wrong? By addressing what you doubt first and why you doubt because of scripture, only then can progress in the discussion can be made, Lord be willing since it is on Him to cause the increase in any discussion.
 

JesusIsFaithful

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wadr i am not sure if that means Yes, or No? Even if God draws you, can following Christ be made into the logical choice?
Iow bearing in mind "hate your life, hate your family, count the cost," etc

That reference.... if read in context... Luke 14:15-33 is about being ready to leave this life on earth for the King's Supper above in Heaven. Jesus expounded on the parable about people excusing themselves from the King's Supper for their loved ones and for the cares of this life given in Luke 14:15-24 by explaining the cost of discipleship was not giving up everything on earth while living on earth in following Him, but being ready to give up everything on earth to leave the earth in Luke 14:25-33 in following the Bridegroom to the Marriage Supper above.

Now when you have read all the scripture regarding what seems to be a logical or conscious choice to make, it is to be applied with other scripture in how we are to follow Him and that is by trusting Him as our Good Shepherd to help us to do it.

One time I read something in the Upper Room or the Daily Bread where at the bottom of the page for my daily reading, it said "Decide this day whom you will serve; the Lord Jesus Christ or something else in His name." For some strange reason at the time, I felt a sense of urgency or rather a prompting from the Lord through the Holy Spirit in me to make that decision. I said out loud, "You, of course.." but that sense of urgency remained, and so I said, "Please help me to do this." And it was afterwards that I had His peace since that sense of urgency had left.

A week later, I went visiting my aunt in Missouri whose community church had just an encounter with the "holy laughter" phenomenon. They had shown a video of what had transpired last Sunday and they had a guest speaker trying to give a sermon on the tragedy of Samson and Delilah, but he was being interrupted by his smirks, giggles, and stifled laughter that he had to stop and claim that he did not know what the Holy Spirit was doing but he was going to call every body up and just go with the flow. Sure enough, a lot of believers went up there, fell down in uncontrollable laughter.

I sure did not know what to make of it, watching that video.

Then came the service. The pastor had several young people come up and share their supernatural experience of loss of self control, and the pastor went on to say that he has made a decision for the church and that was to go with how the "spirit" leads, and then he said.. "No man can move the Holy Spirit, but man has to move out of the way and the Holy Spirit will move in." Then he called members of the church to come up as led to. Some came up, not as many as the last time in that video, and as they all fell down to the floor, only one lady went down to the floor laughing uncontrollably.

My dad left but my mom stayed with my aunt which is her sister. I stayed not sure what I was supposed to do. Then I felt a hand pushed me from behind and I looked back and saw no one near me enough to do that. It happened 2 more times and so I was trying to figure things out by my own reasoning and went forward, assuming that the Lord anted me to go forward and so I did by asking for healing for my deaf left ear and my tinnitus in my right ear. It did not happen. One guy pushed me back when praying for me while two caught me to lay me down on the ground. I got mad. I got up and walked out of there.

When I got to my aunt's house, I looked in my KJV Bible and found a newsletter that was given to me about the role of the Holy Ghost. The Holy Ghost would never draw attention to Himself in worship but seeks to testify of the Son ( John 15:26 ) to glorify the Son ( John 16:14 ) and so how can He do that except through us in worship ( John 15:27 & Philippians 2:5-13 )?

We would get to know the real holy Spirit by Him dwelling within us; John 14:16-17 as any spirit that is outside of us is the spirit of the antichrist as that was the spirit I felt pushing me forward. 1 John 4:1-4

But man... feeling that invisible hand 3 times to go forward... you can see why I needed His help to follow Him by not getting swept away by that phenomenon in serving that spirit in that "holy laughter" movement in glorifying that spirit that brings that laughter. And , duh, I did not connect the warning a week prior to that moment until much later on at which time, I was thankful to Jesus for keeping me from falling for that movement.

Just as you felt prompted by the Lord Jesus Christ through the Holy Spirit in you to leave that church when you did. Jesus did say not to go there when they say Jesus Christ is in this place or that place, meaning the Spirit of Christ in a place of worship or gathering other than inside of us. So I can see why the Lord led you out of there since you were not rooted in His words to keep you from being swept away by a phenomenon. I thank the Lord Jesus Christ for protecting you, brother.

Just trust Him as your Good Shepherd to help youto abide in Him as well as helping you to be willing to go when the Bridegroom comes. He will do it.
 
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brakelite

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John 15:6 is referring to the topic of discipleship so that saved believers may be fruitful and that their joy may be full BUT there is a consequence for not abiding in Him as John 15:6 declares.
Yes. That consequence is the second death. There are no second chances after the second coming, no millennial kingdom on earth to continue life, and the city comes down at the end of the millennium, not before. Your eschatology is very screwed up affecting your soteriology and theology. There is so much wrong with your theories it would take months to cover every aspect. And your futuristic hermeneutic is the basis for all your errors.

If you compare 1 Corinthians 3:10-17 in how it speaks of that day when Jesus will judge what has been built on that foundation which that foundation was laid by Jesus Christ, then that fire is burning away everything on that foundation that denies Him, the iniquities of wood, stubble, and hay that defiles the temple of God, but do note, the foundation remains because it can never be removed If all that was built on that foundation was wood, stubble, and hay, that saved believer will suffer a loss, but his spirit will be saved as through fire; hence
I have lost count of the number of times this page of scripture had been used to justify the belief that unrepentant sinners are saved.
 

JesusIsFaithful

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Yes. That consequence is the second death. There are no second chances after the second coming, no millennial kingdom on earth to continue life, and the city comes down at the end of the millennium, not before. Your eschatology is very screwed up affecting your soteriology and theology. There is so much wrong with your theories it would take months to cover every aspect. And your futuristic hermeneutic is the basis for all your errors.

I have lost count of the number of times this page of scripture had been used to justify the belief that unrepentant sinners are saved.

And you have no response for those scripture posted, now do you in post # 92 at the link below?

https://www.christianityboard.com/t...led-or-still-filling.26295/page-5#post-426230

You just gloss over them as if they do not apply, and yet amazing how those saved believers are being saved coming through that fire. So guess what? That fire is not the second death as in the lake of fire because nobody is coming out of that. Yet the scripture I told you speak of a fire that destroys the physical bodies where by the souls of those saved believers are coming out of that.

But since you do not care to address ALL the scriptures to the contrary to your position in that post....

2 Timothy 2:18 cites an example of how a saved believer can err from the truth and have their faith overthrown and verse 19 starts off with nevertheless meaning it is of no consequence because former believers have His seal BUT they are still called to depart from iniquity in 2 Timothy 2:19.

In 2 Timothy 2:20 Paul cites tow kinds of vessels that are in His House; there are the vessels unto honor that are in His House, and there are the vessels unto dishonor in His House, and the vessels unto dishonor in His House.

In 2 Timothy 2:21 in response to that call to depart from iniquity is how one becomes that vessel unto honor in His House.

Now what does that say about those that do not depart from iniquity? They run the risk of becoming damned as vessels unto dishonor BUT still in His House.

Try not to act like there are no scripture opposing your point of view when all you do is ignore them because you do not have an answer for it to defend your belief. Prove me wrong and go back to post #92 to answer those scripture that speaks of the fire that cannot be the second death.

The prodigal son that gave up his first inheritance for wild living, can never get that first inheritance back, but he is still son. The pre great trib rapture when the Bridegroom comes to judge His House first is when He receives the vessel unto honor into His House in Heaven and deny those not abiding in Him from attending the Marriage Supper in Heaven by casting them away to face the calamity of fire that is coming on the earth and the subsequent coming great tribulation as a result, but they are still saved because they still have His seal as in the prodigal son is still son.

Okay everybody that hears. Pray for this brother that the Lord will help him stop ignoring those verses that speaks of a fire that is NOT the second death spoken of.
 

quietthinker

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And you have no response for those scripture posted, now do you in post # 92 at the link below?

https://www.christianityboard.com/t...led-or-still-filling.26295/page-5#post-426230

You just gloss over them as if they do not apply, and yet amazing how those saved believers are being saved coming through that fire. So guess what? That fire is not the second death as in the lake of fire because nobody is coming out of that. Yet the scripture I told you speak of a fire that destroys the physical bodies where by the souls of those saved believers are coming out of that.

But since you do not care to address ALL the scriptures to the contrary to your position in that post....

2 Timothy 2:18 cites an example of how a saved believer can err from the truth and have their faith overthrown and verse 19 starts off with nevertheless meaning it is of no consequence because former believers have His seal BUT they are still called to depart from iniquity in 2 Timothy 2:19.

In 2 Timothy 2:20 Paul cites tow kinds of vessels that are in His House; there are the vessels unto honor that are in His House, and there are the vessels unto dishonor in His House, and the vessels unto dishonor in His House.

In 2 Timothy 2:21 in response to that call to depart from iniquity is how one becomes that vessel unto honor in His House.

Now what does that say about those that do not depart from iniquity? They run the risk of becoming damned as vessels unto dishonor BUT still in His House.

Try not to act like there are no scripture opposing your point of view when all you do is ignore them because you do not have an answer for it to defend your belief. Prove me wrong and go back to post #92 to answer those scripture that speaks of the fire that cannot be the second death.

The prodigal son that gave up his first inheritance for wild living, can never get that first inheritance back, but he is still son. The pre great trib rapture when the Bridegroom comes to judge His House first is when He receives the vessel unto honor into His House in Heaven and deny those not abiding in Him from attending the Marriage Supper in Heaven by casting them away to face the calamity of fire that is coming on the earth and the subsequent coming great tribulation as a result, but they are still saved because they still have His seal as in the prodigal son is still son.

Okay everybody that hears. Pray for this brother that the Lord will help him stop ignoring those verses that speaks of a fire that is NOT the second death spoken of.
All I can say to your reply here JiF, is that brakelite is quiet correct when he said 'Your eschatology is very screwed up affecting your soteriology and theology. There is so much wrong with your theories it would take months to cover every aspect. And your futuristic hermeneutic is the basis for all your errors'.
As to producing scriptures, I don't have much confidence that you would take any notice of them.
 
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brakelite

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@JesusIsFaithful I will offer this one thing, and allow you to figure it out, seeing you want so much to talk about fire.

Mt 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
Mt 3:12 Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.
 
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JesusIsFaithful

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All I can say to your reply here JiF, is that brakelite is quiet correct when he said 'Your eschatology is very screwed up affecting your soteriology and theology. There is so much wrong with your theories it would take months to cover every aspect. And your futuristic hermeneutic is the basis for all your errors'.
As to producing scriptures, I don't have much confidence that you would take any notice of them.

Evidence to the contrary in this very thread is when I address the scripture provided by those who contend while they haven't really addressed mine.
 

JesusIsFaithful

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@JesusIsFaithful I will offer this one thing, and allow you to figure it out, seeing you want so much to talk about fire.

Mt 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
Mt 3:12 Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.

When does this happen though? At the great white throne judgment when everything has been put down, including death and hell in the lake of fire along with Satan and his angels.

That is not happening at the pre great trib rapture when God judges His House since the souls of the castaways are coming out of that fire suffering loss.

1 Corinthians 3:10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon. 11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; 13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. 14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. 16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? 17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

What Paul is describing here is obviously not the unquenchable fire, now is it?

Granted, the fire that burns the works off of that foundation laid by Jesus Christ is the Refiner's fire, but of that day in question as coming on the earth is the calamity of fire.

So what is that fire on what day that will declare it will happen when the punishment is physical death which is what our bodies are as the temple of the Holy Spirit?

1 Corinthians 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? 20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

Revelation 2:21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not. 22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds. 23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.

So by those verses above, this judgment of fire will come on that day where He will judge His House first, the churches of God, and the consequence is physical death by being cast into the bed of the coming great tribulation... as in left behind to face the calamity of fire that will destroy one third of the earth that will serve as a catalyst for the coming new world order and the mark of the beast system to tempt all with the mark to survive.

What is that calamity of fire?

Jesus spoke of it in Luke 12:40-49 in His warning for His disciples to be ready for the Son of Man when He comes which is not the same kind of fire you referred to in Matthew 3:11-12 because His servants that shall be cast away are getting stripes and yet still called His servants. That fire that is coming on the earth cannot be the lake of fire because earth is not going to be thrown in the lake of fire.

Luke 12:46 The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers. 47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. 48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more. 49 I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled?

So that fire is not the lake of fire but this one that is coming on the earth that Peter explained about in 2 Peter 3rd chapter as God's judgment on the earth like the global flood, except only a third of the earth will get burned up which can only be the entire western hemisphere for why and how all those other prophesied nations will be attending the devil in his battle at Jerusalem against the coming of the Lord.

2 Peter 3:3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, 4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. 5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: 6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: 7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. 8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. 9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

See Peter's reference to God's judgment of the global flood on the earth and now points to the calamity of fire that is coming on the earth? That is not the unquenchable fire, now is it, when it is coming on the earth? We read onward about that call to repentance to avoid being left behind.

2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. 11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, 12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? 13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness. 14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation;......

That salvation spoken of in verse 15 is about being saved from that judgment of fire that is coming on the earth that will burn up one third of earth.

So that is what running the race is all about; not just to obtain that eternal glory that comes with our salvation in being received as that vessel unto honor in His House, but to escape the calamity of fire that is coming on the earth that will serve as a catalyst for the new world order and the mark of the beast system to survive during the great tribulation which is the hour of temptation that shall try all upon the earth because those who receive the mark to buy and sell, are forever to be damned to the lake of fire, no matter what.

Since that damnation of the unquenchable fire is after the great tribulation and after Satan has been released from the pit for a thousand years for his last rebellion and gets put down and THEN placed in the lake of fire forever along with death and hell, then that is when Matthew 3:11-12 is applied; and not before.

Now by the grace of God and His help, I have shown where and when Matthew 3:11-12 is applied and that is when death and hell is in the lake of fire to be purged from the floor and that kingdom of God is complete when the Son gives that kingdom back to the Father, and not before.

Do try to address the scripture I have provided without ignoring that the fire I am talking about cannot be the unquenchable fire you claim it is.
 

bbyrd009

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People say God help those who helped themselves.
I think you need to expand more for the comment of "you are the one that needs to be returning" if I had not answered to your satisfaction prior.
i am just restating the verse there, not making a comment; the v speaks for itself i guess, on the subject of "returning."
 

JesusIsFaithful

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i am just restating the verse there, not making a comment; the v speaks for itself i guess, on the subject of "returning."

When in the progress of our discussion, this is why that would be one reply, I cannot comment on, right? Since I do not know how you are applying that verse towards in the progress of our discussion. Okay? FYI
 

bbyrd009

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So if you were trying to imply that we had to return first as if repenting from all sins before Jesus could save us rather than just repenting from the sin of unbelief by believing in Him, ....then I would have to disagree
ah. What if it is God that is implying that tho? i guess i can even go ya one better, what if God is directly stating that,

19Therefore this is what the LORD says: "If you repent, I will restore you that you may serve me; if you utter worthy, not worthless, words, you will be my spokesman. Let this people turn to you, but you must not turn to them.
8Ever since the time of your ancestors you have turned away from my decrees and have not kept them. Return to me, and I will return to you," says the LORD Almighty. "But you ask, 'How are we to return?'

or i mean which sin is it that you want to hang on to for now?
 

bbyrd009

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When in the progress of our discussion, this is why that would be one reply, I cannot comment on, right? Since I do not know how you are applying that verse towards in the progress of our discussion. Okay? FYI
ah sorry; you indicated earlier that Jesus was returning for you someday, and i said you couldn't find any evidence of Jesus ever "returning," shub, at all, except by poor inference at the previous verse, implying that if we "leave" then God will leave too, until we "return" or something? Like God goes somewhere else? i don't even know. Or maybe by English scribes who for whatever reason cannot even get the English sense of "one" down right @ Paul's "3rd person and a thorn" parable

"If you, Israel, will return, then return to me," declares the LORD. "If you put your detestable idols out of my sight and no longer go astray,
 

bbyrd009

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Compare the KJV with the NIV to see my point in seeing the absolute truth on this subject at Bible gateway at the link provided below.
ah but an AT is something that is true for everyone, everyone agrees, all circles are round, like that--you are discussing a "belief" there imo, something that cannot be proven, that ppl disagree on; ergo "belief." Regardless of whether i happen to agree with you there lol
Maybe if you cited an example of scripture from which you seem to think you are not sure of the absolute truth, He might help us both to find.
wadr i prefer to approach it from this direction, mostly bc i have yet to find one. But if one occurs to you, or you can restate that up there into an AT, i'd love to hear it, whenever.
 
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bbyrd009

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Well, the only way you can prove it wrong is by the scripture. So what little detail in there that you see as wrong that maybe some scripture you read that you are applying as if that little detail is wrong?
Then sinners as believers are saved,
be perfect, as I am perfect, Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God, Don't you realize that those who do wrong will not inherit the Kingdom of God, etc, neverminding that "the faithful" have been turned into "believers" there at that v. Which is not in Scripture iow, except in English
but yet still called to look to Him for help to live that life of repentance in living that reconciled relationship with God thru Jesus Christ.
seek your own salvation, return to Me and I will return to you, you reap what you sow
Those who are not found abiding in Him that get left behind are still saved,
this one, yikes, i mean where does this even come from, pls Quote the v and we'll see. All i can find for them is "Cut off and tossed"

again, neverminding that those who are seeking to leave seem to be the same ones who are arguing against their own return to begin with, yes? Iow the ones "taken" are the ones taken to be tossed
but just disqualified to attend the Marriage Supper in Heaven whereby they have to wait for their resurrection or inheriting their second inheritance as vessels unto honor, after the great tribulation.
Understand I AM, there is nothing new under the sun, the kingdom of heaven is within you
 
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bbyrd009

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That reference.... if read in context... Luke 14:15-33 is about being ready to leave this life on earth for the King's Supper above in Heaven.
or at least that is what you have been taught, what pretty much every single believer in the whole world will even tell you, yes. But that does not make it true, just popular. "The wide path," one could even say. Fwiw note how all that is made into "someday, tomorrow maybe," and heaven is made into some place, "above," that you nonetheless cannot point to, that even contradicts other Scripture from God and Christ about where heaven is.

So the "return" that God plainly seeks from us herenow is warped into us going somewhere else to party with Jesus in heaven, tomorrow, basically--in full armor, too, don't forget we have been called to put on all the armor, bc we'll be needing that for the party right. Are you fam with the Cult of Sol Invictus? quite pop when the NT was being written. That is what you and i are now discussing fwiw. Ezekiel discussed it like 8 centuries previous, in chap 13 i think it is, "pillows, soft landings, flying like birds" that one
 

JesusIsFaithful

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I had posted "So if you were trying to imply that we had to return first as if repenting from all sins before Jesus could save us rather than just repenting from the sin of unbelief by believing in Him, ....then I would have to disagree"

from which you had replied below:

ah. What if it is God that is implying that tho? i guess i can even go ya one better, what if God is directly stating that,

19Therefore this is what the LORD says: "If you repent, I will restore you that you may serve me; if you utter worthy, not worthless, words, you will be my spokesman. Let this people turn to you, but you must not turn to them.
8Ever since the time of your ancestors you have turned away from my decrees and have not kept them. Return to me, and I will return to you," says the LORD Almighty. "But you ask, 'How are we to return?'


Now by applying your comment to His words, I can understand to some degree where you are coming from. But I do point out that the scripture you are referring to is from the Old Testament, and if you read His words, they do not apply to sinners that know not the Lord Jesus Christ, but to the nation of Israel for why He says "Repent" as in "by returning unto Me".

Sinners cannot return to Jesus Christ per the N.T. if they never departed from Him because they had never come to Him yet to depart from Him.

But to carnal christians or former believers that have gone astray, then yeah.... they are called to return to Him by departing from iniquity.


or i mean which sin is it that you want to hang on to for now?

Since you had referenced the O.T., I am not sure how that question would be relevant, but if I apply that question to the N.T., then I would say that there is no sin worth hanging unto since any work of iniquity will risk myself of being denied by Him when the Bridegroom comes, because that work of iniquity is actually denying Him. Titus 1:15-16 & 2 Timothy 2:12 BUT as I said, even former believers are still saved if they don't, but are at risk of being denied attendance to the Marriage Supper in Heaven. 2 Timothy 2:13 & 2 Timothy 2:18-21
 

JesusIsFaithful

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ah sorry; you indicated earlier that Jesus was returning for you someday, and i said you couldn't find any evidence of Jesus ever "returning," shub, at all, except by poor inference at the previous verse, implying that if we "leave" then God will leave too, until we "return" or something? Like God goes somewhere else? i don't even know. Or maybe by English scribes who for whatever reason cannot even get the English sense of "one" down right @ Paul's "3rd person and a thorn" parable

"If you, Israel, will return, then return to me," declares the LORD. "If you put your detestable idols out of my sight and no longer go astray,

I am not sure why you would consider John 14:1-3 as a poor inference.

Most of His warnings in regards to Noah's flood and Sodom and Gomorrah has to deal with His return as the Bridegroom in taking the abiding bride of Christ while rejecting those saved believers found in iniquity as those castaways will become vessels unto dishonor in His House as saved believers still.

You probably know about Matthew 24th chapter and some others but I go to Luke 17th chapter for the point of reception to celebration.

Luke 17:26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man. 27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all. 28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded; 29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. 30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed. 31 In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back. 32 Remember Lot's wife. 33 Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it. 34 I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left. 35 Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 37 And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together. KJV

Now some will contend between Bible versions and the KJV by insisting that the KJV has it wrong and the modern Bible would have vultures in place of eagles and thus insinuating that it is the bad guys that are being removed or taken. Not so. If you go to this link...

http://www.sacrednamebible.com/kjvstrongs/index2.htm

And scroll down on the left column to Luke and click on the number 17 in blue, it should switch the main page to Luke 17th chapter. Then scroll down on the main upper page and click on sunacqhsontai of the blue Greek word and the lower half of the main page should give you this definition:

"from sun - sun 4862 and agw - ago 71; to lead together, i.e. collect or convene; specially, to entertain (hospitably):--+ accompany, assemble (selves, together), bestow, come together, gather (selves together, up, together), lead into, resort, take in."

If you click on aetoi in the blue Greek word, you would get this definition:

"from the same as ahr - aer 109; an eagle (from its wind-like flight):--eagle."

Then you can see why there is no way eagle should be vulture to mean getting rid of the bad guys from earth.

Anyway I digress...the point of that Luke 17th reference was to show the purpose of His return and that was as the Bridegroom receiving the abiding bride of Christ to the Marriage Supper. It is unfortunate that KJV does not make that noted point of being received to a celebration, but hardly any other modern Bibles are telling the truth when switching out eagles with vultures as if talking about removing the bad guys. Indeed, it would be out of context of the message of warning given to His disciples about remembering Lot's wife in how she loved her life in Sodom to not want to leave it.

So His return here is about coming as the Bridegroom in fulfilling His promise to come and receive His disciples to their mansions above; John 14:1-3




 

JesusIsFaithful

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ah but an AT is something that is true for everyone, everyone agrees, all circles are round, like that--you are discussing a "belief" there imo, something that cannot be proven, that ppl disagree on; ergo "belief." Regardless of whether i happen to agree with you there lol
wadr i prefer to approach it from this direction, mostly bc i have yet to find one. But if one occurs to you, or you can restate that up there into an AT, i'd love to hear it, whenever.

There is no circle for the opposition when they just refuse to acknowledge what all Bibles says in John 16:13 in how the Holy Spirit cannot speak for Himself but only speaks what He hears, thus being the Spirit of the Father when Jesus was on earth and now the Spirit of Christ when Jesus had ascended to Heaven. He can never stop being the Spirit of Christ by speaking for Himself as in being the Spirit of the Spirit. That is His limitation for why He can never use God's gift of tongues which has been prophesied for God speaking unto the people ( 1 Corinthians 14:20-21 ) to turn it around and use it for Himself in uttering His intercessions in babbling nonsense for why no interpretation is coming because it is not the real God's gift of tongues.