Are Your Beliefs Absolute Truths?

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amadeus

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This is a profound question! And at the heart of what we are discussing here...
we have the example of Saul, whom God tells directly 'why are you persecuting me?' , and where does HE send him? to the Church in Antioch to be baptised, where the scales fall from his eyes..
and we have the example of the apostles (someone led by God) sharing what Christ and the Spirit have taught them, and we have them choosing, training and approving (ordaining) men to take their place to continue to preserve and pass on the deposit of faith
and we have the Councils, of which the first in Jerusalem is the protptype.. so that in ending a division or strife within the Church it can prononce: 'It seems good to us and the Holy Spirit'... giving instruction binding on the whole Church.

Well you must stand where you do and follow whatever it is that you see. I was not there for those Councils so I won't speak against you, but you should not expect me to speak for you based on man's written history. I've been accused here of not believing in history, but that is not so. I simply refuse to treat history as greater than the "his story" of some man or men who lived and died long before I was born as being a basis for what I believe. I believe that God inspired men to write the Bible. The problem is that without a similar inspiration no man can correctly decipher God's message to men as it is written even in the scriptures.


The instruction, "It seems good to us and the Holy Spirit" when it applies it a good one, but I would not apply such words too easily as binding on the whole Church. On a few things more than once in my experience I have seen two or three gathered together in His name so that He really was there in our midst, but this has always [in my experience] been only with very small groups. The larger the group the less likely it was to be applicable. This is not because of the unwillingness of God, but because of people. Wishing that it were so doesn't change what most men, even believers, are altogether too often... that is: Not in His name. I have been too often one of those found Not in His name to say more on this.

On this we agree... almost always, strife between members of the body is brought about by sins on both sides.. but how does this rebellion of Korah apply in the Church? Jude warned us against those who fall into it..

This again is a very good point. i would argue however that it prefigures the split between the eastern (orthodox) churches and the western (latin) churches... The difference being that the apostolic churches DID follow the Lord, in fact competed with one another to see who would more faithfully preserve the deposit of faith that was given to them...

Happily though this division has been repaired (the two sticks made one) as Bartholomew I and Benedict XVI concelebrated the divine mysteries together some time ago... and this union continues to repair the damage between us...

Every step taken in the right direction is a good step, but until the final step is taken, it may in the end of the matter still all be for nought in the eyes of God.
 

amadeus

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No presumption, what the Church is, is clearly spelled out in scripture... but this reminds me of an old orthodox saying (im sorry I forget by who) ' One can say with certainty where the Church IS, but not, where it is not'

No presumption for you perhaps, but for me it would be. Again on this point I stand where I stand, but I believe that I am growing. This is what every believer should be doing... growing closer to God.

And on this we also agree!
may the Lord, the God of Hosts, strengthen our love for one another and bring us to the unity that the Holy Spirit calls us too!
Peace and Love!
PJ
Give God the glory as He increases each of us as we open up our hearts to Him.
 
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APAK

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No presumption for you perhaps, but for me it would be. Again on this point I stand where I stand, but I believe that I am growing. This is what every believer should be doing... growing closer to God.


Give God the glory as He increases each of us as we open up our hearts to Him.
Yes, indeed...
We grow closer to God, to know him, his ways, his will, in the true love of God that dwells within our hearts that no legal church denomination can hold a candle to and ever UNDERSTAND. We are in Christ, period, not in any denomination...

Bless you amadeus

APAK
 
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Helen

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i would suggest that God cannot be known, inapproachable light, but only known of?

I say we can...to a degree.....but what we "know" about God would not cover the head of a pin. :)
 
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Ezra

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2 Timothy 1

11to which I was appointed a preacher, an apostle, and a teacher. 12For this reason, even though I suffer as I do, I am not ashamed; for I know whom I have believed, and I am convinced that He is able to guard what I have entrusted to Him for that day. 13 Hold on to the pattern of sound teaching you have heard from me, with the faith and love that are in Christ Jesus.…

if we truly know him yes our beliefs will be absolute truth. how ever if we are of the ones who the only truth . then we have a problem.then it becomes our truth and not his
 

amadeus

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i would suggest that God cannot be known, inapproachable light, but only known of?
But... does not God want us to come to know Him better? Most people know Him not at all. They, like the Israelites in the wilderness, who covered the brightness of the reflected blinding Light shining from the face of Moses, do not really want to see or to know Him. But... again, what does this mean?

"Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is." I John 3:2

What did God tell David?

"When thou saidst, Seek ye my face; my heart said unto thee, Thy face, LORD, will I seek." Psalm 27:8

And what was meant when the Apostle Paul wrote these words?

"For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known." I Cor 13:12
 
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bbyrd009

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But... does not God want us to come to know Him better? Most people know Him not at all. They, like the Israelites in the wilderness, who covered the brightness of the reflected blinding Light shining from the face of Moses, do not really want to see or to know Him. But... again, what does this mean?

"Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is." I John 3:2

What did God tell David?

"When thou saidst, Seek ye my face; my heart said unto thee, Thy face, LORD, will I seek." Psalm 27:8

And what was meant when the Apostle Paul with these words?

"For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known." I Cor 13:12
ah well, i have interps of those, but i'm not sure they would make any sense...i'll sleep on these too :)
 
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brakelite

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i would suggest that God cannot be known, inapproachable light, but only known of?
We can most assuredly know Him. We know from scripture that God is love. (An absolute truth) We can experience that love every day if we believe in the promises of God as He provides, guides, and reveals Himself in our day to day lives. And as we experience the love of God, and thus trust Him more each day, we come to know Him better and more intimately as we see Him working in different situations for ourselves and others.
KJV Jeremiah 9
23 Thus saith the LORD, Let not the wise man glory in his wisdom, neither let the mighty man glory in his might, let not the rich man glory in his riches:
24 But let him that glorieth glory in this, that he understandeth and knoweth me, that I am the LORD which exercise lovingkindness, judgment, and righteousness, in the earth: for in these things I delight, saith the LORD.
 

bbyrd009

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most assuredly
ok, ty
We know from scripture that God is love. (An absolute truth)
not even close bro, sorry. We could review the def of AT if you like, and as i mentioned i'm pretty sure there are ATs in Scripture, but no one here has yet Quoted one that i am aware of.

Now you can say that is true, but see you are essentially engaging in private interpretation now imo
We can experience that love every day if we believe in the promises of God as He provides, guides, and reveals Himself in our day to day lives. And as we experience the love of God, and thus trust Him more each day, we come to know Him better and more intimately as we see Him working in different situations for ourselves and others.
i happen to agree bl, but this belief does not make it AT--you cannot prove that--and other explanations, a sense of morality for instance, might lead one to the same conclusions in different terms. (I pick Morality specifically bc many believers do not like the comparison for some reason)

so, i agree with you, but at the same time i cannot justify any good reason why one of God's titles should not be Morality?
23 Thus saith the LORD, Let not the wise man glory in his wisdom, neither let the mighty man glory in his might, let not the rich man glory in his riches:
24 But let him that glorieth glory in this, that he understandeth and knoweth me, that I am the LORD which exercise lovingkindness, judgment, and righteousness, in the earth: for in these things I delight, saith the LORD.


so, to refute your spiritual AT, I create evil, I the (Lord) do all these things
love creates evil?
 
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bbyrd009

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Well you must stand where you do and follow whatever it is that you see. I was not there for those Councils so I won't speak against you, but you should not expect me to speak for you based on man's written history. I've been accused here of not believing in history, but that is not so. I simply refuse to treat history as greater than the "his story" of some man or men who lived and died long before I was born as being a basis for what I believe. I believe that God inspired men to write the Bible. The problem is that without a similar inspiration no man can correctly decipher God's message to men as it is written even in the scriptures.
gotta eat what is it? for that seems like, huh?

and The Pearl, the gates (that are nevertheless "always open"), are imo embodied in a similar phrase, that i dont believe has come out in this forum yet, been trying for a year on that one. Not that i'm right understand, but cant even broach the subject yet i guess, gotta finish the foundations maybe is what i'm guessing
 

amadeus

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We can most assuredly know Him. We know from scripture that God is love. (An absolute truth)
If "God is Love" is an Absolute Truth, AT, and I believe that it is, for anyone who does not know Him it is an unknown. This is so, I believe, for most people. For believers? Where is each believer with God? How much does he know? There are babies and there are very mature believers. How well does one on each end of that spectrum know God? Does the baby in Christ know God better than or the same as a mature believer? The impossibility of our correctly judging the difference is why these words apply to us mostly:

"Judge not, that ye be not judged" Matt 7:1
And also consider "much is given... much is required" from Luke 12:48.


The reason we are to judge another is because we do not have all of the facts to make a fair judgment of anyone. God does. If ever we become judges on God's behalf [His appointment, not our presumption], will He not help us to make fair judgments? How fair were the judges in the Book of Judges? The answer would be dependent upon how much they looked to God to render their judgments. Which of them made no mistakes?

We can experience that love every day if we believe in the promises of God as He provides, guides, and reveals Himself in our day to day lives. And as we experience the love of God, and thus trust Him more each day, we come to know Him better and more intimately as we see Him working in different situations for ourselves and others.
Even so... growing more like God... but then we only know God as well as we do... which until and if we are completely like Him, how well is that? The limit always is in us.

So we can decide that God is Love, which we may decide is an AT, but if we depended upon our own self at all to come to that conclusion, to that extent could it not be in error?
KJV Jeremiah 9
23 Thus saith the LORD, Let not the wise man glory in his wisdom, neither let the mighty man glory in his might, let not the rich man glory in his riches:
24 But let him that glorieth glory in this, that he understandeth and knoweth me, that I am the LORD which exercise lovingkindness, judgment, and righteousness, in the earth: for in these things I delight, saith the LORD.
 

Nancy

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A short video that should make you think.


"Ideas have people", awesome...lol. How true that ideas and "isms" truly do dictate many erroneous beliefs and some who are caught up in them, have no idea where it can lead...it is like they are trading the Truth of God for lies and are stuck in their own cemented ideas. It leaves no room for growth. Allot said in that short video! Thank you for sharing! :)
 

marks

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that is what you want to believe, but that does not make it truth wadr. That is why we call them "beliefs." You are just using another common assumption to assert your belief as AT; "even if i didn't believe it, it would still be true" is not an argument, see, it is a justification

Whether you want to believe something has no bearing on whether that thing is true.

Your question, are your beliefs absolute truths, well, that depends entirely on what you believe. If you believe something that is an absolute truth, then yes. If not, then no.

So . . . is there such a thing as an "absolute truth"? I ask because it sounds to me that you don't think there is, at least, in a functional sense.

Just wondering.

Much love!
 

amadeus

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gotta eat what is it? for that seems like, huh?

and The Pearl, the gates (that are nevertheless "always open"), are imo embodied in a similar phrase, that i dont believe has come out in this forum yet, been trying for a year on that one. Not that i'm right understand, but cant even broach the subject yet i guess, gotta finish the foundations maybe is what i'm guessing
Why the gates are Pearl, I cannot say, but the foundations of the wall of the city as per Revelation have "in them" the names of the 12 apostles. That concerns the foundations of the wall of the city, rather than our foundation. The foundation upon which we, you and I, are to build is described here:

"According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.
For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ." I Cor 3:10-11


People sometimes get hung up on the gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay and stubble of the next few verses, forgetting that without the proper foundation our building efforts with the best of materials is for naught:

"Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it." Matt 7:24-27


"For who is God save the LORD? or who is a rock save our God?" Psalm 18:31
 
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bbyrd009

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and we have the Councils, of which the first in Jerusalem is the protptype.. so that in ending a division or strife within the Church it can prononce: 'It seems good to us and the Holy Spirit'... giving instruction binding on the whole Church.
as long as we dont really look at the complete farce of the Councils of Nicea anyway right
 

Philip James

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as long as we dont really look at the complete farce of the Councils of Nicea anyway right

Some will see the failings of men, some will see the working of the Holy Spirit, guiding, guarding and correcting us.

All depends on your pov i suppose..

Peace!
 

bbyrd009

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So . . . is there such a thing as an "absolute truth"?
well of course there is, as the defintion available anywhere might make plain; and there are surely many, many ATs in Scriture as well. But the whole point here is that believers post their beliefs as though they were truths, "this is that and that is this," as if they actually knew something iow, when what that really is is believers captured by the dunning-krueger effect engaging in satan's dialectic and too ifnorant to realize they are violating other Scripture every time they do, bc they heard that whatever tripe from Some Guy who signed a Contract for Jesus and hey nobody called Him on it, right, prolly everybody clapped or something even, right before they sang When We All Get to Heaven like a bunch of raging ignernt tards and then "baptized" some poor soul and then took them to Luby's for a little twice the sons of hell you are celebration, right?

There are no round squares; that is an Absolute Truth. But i'm not interested in being pointlessly anal here; "________ was about a days walk from ___________," i at least would consider another.
 

bbyrd009

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Why the gates are Pearl, I cannot say
ha well we now know what pearl is made from, right...but if you were to find out what they knew about pearl 2k years ago, that would prolly clarify too maybe. We only quite recently discovered that pearls were an irritant covered by pearl spit i guess?
That concerns the foundations of the wall of the city, rather than our foundation.
well, so you say, but after all what is the New Jerusalem, if not the Bride of Christ?