At what point does homosexuality become a sin?

[Keebordmehn]

I apologize if this triggers or is offensive to anyone.

At what point does the condition of homosexuality become a sin?

Is it a sin simply to be homosexual? To have the capability of being attracted to men?

Is it a sin to just see a man who I could be attracted to?

Is it a sin to dwell on the sight with no accompanying thoughts?

I know it would be a sin to then actively fantasize.

I have been praying for healing for 47 years. I do not believe that one can be born a homosexual. However, there was never a time when I made the choice to be this way. It was there before I even knew that homosexuality existed. There is no "switch" to turn it off.

I need hope. I want to know that I am not guilty of sin for just seeing a man. That is unavoidable. I am not looking for an excuse to sin; I want to stop condemning myself for something I have no control over.

 

[Sabertooth]

Since we are all born into Sin, that is really a chicken-or-egg question. Even if you never cross some imaginary line that you propose, you will still die in all the other sins that you have already committed unless you get Born Again.
You don't need a specific law to rein you in.
You need a new heart!

I recommend these churches for dealing with homosexual inclinations,

• Vineyard,
• Assembly of God,
• Foursquare Church

(Links above are locators.)

 

[Gottservant]

The Bible talks about the love of Jonathan and David being greater than the love of women. That's two men, with love for each other.

What is wrong ("sin" in other words), is violating that relationship (carnally). As the Bible says "[women] exchanged the ‘natural use for the unnatural’ and men too " (paraphrase Romans 1:26-27).

There is a way to keep yourself pure, despite the temptation to lust - but you will have to contact me privately, to share it, for reasons I can't go into here.

The point is, God does not abandon you to your desire, neither should you abandon your homosexual partner to the flesh.

 

[Sabertooth]

The point is, God does not abandon you to your desire, neither should you abandon your homosexual partner to the flesh.

There is no "right" way to continue in homosexuality, just like there is no "right" way to continue in hetero-adultery.

 

[Gottservant]

There is no "right" way to continue in homosexuality, just like there is no "right" way to continue in hetero-adultery.

Are you saying David did not love Jonathan? Are you saying Jonathan sinned loving David?

Make enemies of people if you want, but criticizing people categorically is a sure way to be rebuked?

Ask God for Wisdom, say "if I loved a man, what difference would it make?"

 

[Sabertooth]

Are you saying David did not love Jonathan? Are you saying Jonathan sinned loving David?

They did not have "eros" with nor for each other.

 

[Gottservant]

They did not have "eros" with nor for each other.

That's right, they did not have "eros".

Now ask yourself "is it possible, that someone could be homosexual and not have "eros"?"

Don't say "what's the point?", for some people that is the point.

 

[Sabertooth]

"is it possible, that someone could be homosexual and not have "eros"?"

No, that is a bromance. By definition, homosexuality is a perversion of eros, even when said lust is not acted upon.

"If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them." Leviticus 20:13 NKJV

They can be forgiven, if they repent, but the Bible says in no uncertain terms that it is sin.

 

[Gottservant]

No, that is a bromance. By definition, homosexuality is a perversion of eros, even when said lust is not acted upon.

"If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them." Leviticus 20:13 NKJV

They can be forgiven, if they repent, but the Bible says in no uncertain terms that it is sin.

You don't need to call it a "bromance" when it is homosexual, that is the same thing,

What you don't seem to understand, is that "eros" is not "compulsory"?

Like I said, you can criticize people if you want, but if you do it categorically, you are almost certain to be rebuked?

 

[Sabertooth]

You don't need to call it a "bromance" when it is homosexual, that is the same thing,...

They are not.
David & Jonathan being BFFs is cool.
Homosexuality & homosexual lust as defined by Leviticus 20:13 will never be cool.

 

[Angel Faith]

The Bible talks about the love of Jonathan and David being greater than the love of women. That's two men, with love for each other.

What is wrong ("sin" in other words), is violating that relationship (carnally). As the Bible says "[women] exchanged the ‘natural use for the unnatural’ and men too " (paraphrase Romans 1:26-27).

There is a way to keep yourself pure, despite the temptation to lust - but you will have to contact me privately, to share it, for reasons I can't go into here.

The point is, God does not abandon you to your desire, neither should you abandon your homosexual partner to the flesh.

Is there anywhere in the Bible where you're told David knew Jonathan as Adam knew his wife?

 

[Gottservant]

Is there anywhere in the Bible where you're told David knew Jonathan as Adam knew his wife?

The Bible says 'they loved each other, with the love that was greater than the love of women", if it was greater than the love of women, are you saying it was impervious to doubt?

My point is not to contradict you, but to point out that "eros" and "love" are two different things - you do not need to reject one on the basis of the other.

As I said, you should resist the temptation to make your judgment "categorical"?

 

[Gottservant]

They are not.
David & Jonathan being BFFs is cool.
Homosexuality & homosexual lust as defined by Leviticus 20:13 will never be cool.

Homosexual, the love of the same sex. That's what it means.

Don't lose your cool over a word, Or make another one up? To me "bromance" is the same thing.

 

[Angel Faith]

The Bible says 'they loved each other, with the love that was greater than the love of women", if it was greater than the love of women, are you saying it was impervious to doubt?

My point is not to contradict you, but to point out that "eros" and "love" are two different things - you do not need to reject one on the basis of the other.

As I said, you should resist the temptation to make your judgment "categorical"?

Can you?

What was the relationship between David and Jonathan? | GotQuestions.org

What was the relationship between David and Jonathan? What can we learn from the account of David and Jonathan?

www.gotquestions.org

 

[Gottservant]

Can you?

What was the relationship between David and Jonathan? | GotQuestions.org

What was the relationship between David and Jonathan? What can we learn from the account of David and Jonathan?

www.gotquestions.org

Can I? Yes of course: David and Jonathan were homosexual in a way that was different to all the other homosexuals, there is no way to completely categorize their love?

 

[Sabertooth]

Homosexual, the love of the same sex. That's what it means.

Wrong.
"Homosexual" means "sexually (attracted, "eros") to the same (gender as oneself)" < Gr. homos + Lat. sexualis.
"Heterosexual" means "sexually (attracted) to the opposite (gender to oneself)" < Gr. heteros.
"Philos" has the meaning that you are looking for.

 

[Rita]

Can you actually remember that this is about someone asking for understanding and help.
I understand what Gottservant is endeavour to convey and actually endeavouring to help with the OP…….

 

[Sabertooth]

Can you actually remember that this is about someone asking for understanding and help.
I understand what Gottservant is endeavour to convey and actually endeavouring to help with the OP…….

Equating homosexual lust with a strong platonic love is a disservice to the OP, who was speaking of men generally.

pla·ton·ic
/pləˈtänik/

adjective
(of love or friendship) intimate and affectionate but not sexual.
"their relationship is purely platonic"

 

[Rita]

That isn’t the part I was understanding, it was more the attitude of endeavouring to come along side someone who has asked a question.

 

[Rita]

@Sabertooth
I have a very elderly friend , well in her 90’s now. She would class herself as being gay. However when talking to her over the years and allowing her to be open I realised that her attraction and pull was never based or rooted in a sexual attraction. She lived with one lady for many many years- it was a friendship , a very deep one. The world would label her by her attraction to the same sex , she never felt able to be open about herself within the church she was a part, fear of judgments. She has carried so much guilt and shame because of other peoples interpretation of her life style, yet sex was never a part of her actual life or relationship .