Before I formed you in the womb, I knew you...

[Brother James]

I'm interested in hearing other people's thoughts on Jeremiah 1:5 when God told Jeremiah, "“Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart; I appointed you as a prophet to the nations.”

Do you think this passage applies solely to Jeremiah, because of God appointing him as a prophet to the nations, or does the first part of the passage apply to us all? Did God know each of us before he formed us in our mothers' wombs? If so, what does it mean that he "knew" us? Is that because God transcends time, and knew us as we would become? Or does it mean that we existed in some way with God before (in time) our conception?

Certainly Christ, God, existed before He was formed in Mary's womb. Did we exist in some way? Or did our essence/soul/spirit come into being when we were conceived? In light of the Jeremiah passage, I roll this around in my head and come to no firm conclusion. Any other thoughts?

 

[lforrest]

Psalm 139:13-18 seems to apply. Though it may pose more questions than answers.

 

[Deborah_]

Psalm 139 was written by David, who was also called by God to fulfil a great purpose for the history of Israel.
Does God have similar individual eternal plans for us 'ordinary' people? I'm not sure.

God does know us before we are born because He is in eternity, where there is no 'before' or 'after'. We are different from Christ, who has always existed in eternity with the Father and the Spirit.

 

[bbyrd009]

Certainly Christ, God, existed before He was formed in Mary's womb. Did we exist in some way? Or did our essence/soul/spirit come into being when we were conceived? In light of the Jeremiah passage, I roll this around in my head and come to no firm conclusion. Any other thoughts?

semantics kind of get in the way but we are said to be 3, spirit, soul, and body, and i think it is the "soul" part that you are asking about? I believe we pre-exist as souls, prior to our incarnation, but that is just a belief i have, and Solomon notes that we do not know where we come from, or where we are going, speaking about the soul. I certainly don't think that Jeremiah was formed any differently than anyone, and God is likely commenting on the nature of Jeremiah's soul here, that he would be a prophet--which we read as "special" in some way, because it is a special gift, ya, but still just a gift, and everyone gets/has gifts.

 

[WalterandDebbie]

I'm interested in hearing other people's thoughts on Jeremiah 1:5 when God told Jeremiah, "“Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart; I appointed you as a prophet to the nations.”

Do you think this passage applies solely to Jeremiah, because of God appointing him as a prophet to the nations, or does the first part of the passage apply to us all? Did God know each of us before he formed us in our mothers' wombs? If so, what does it mean that he "knew" us? Is that because God transcends time, and knew us as we would become? Or does it mean that we existed in some way with God before (in time) our conception?

Certainly Christ, God, existed before He was formed in Mary's womb. Did we exist in some way? Or did our essence/soul/spirit come into being when we were conceived? In light of the Jeremiah passage, I roll this around in my head and come to no firm conclusion. Any other thoughts?

Hello! and how are you all? I'am glad of the above statements, and questions. But I know now for a fact that we all were born for a reason, but I could not think of any reason other than why we are here on this earth but to be who we are a this moment, because we was purchased by his/Jesus blood. As to being a few of us that are chosen according to his will.https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=we+were+purchased+by+the+blood+of+jesus

 

[Stranger]

I'm interested in hearing other people's thoughts on Jeremiah 1:5 when God told Jeremiah, "“Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart; I appointed you as a prophet to the nations.”

Do you think this passage applies solely to Jeremiah, because of God appointing him as a prophet to the nations, or does the first part of the passage apply to us all? Did God know each of us before he formed us in our mothers' wombs? If so, what does it mean that he "knew" us? Is that because God transcends time, and knew us as we would become? Or does it mean that we existed in some way with God before (in time) our conception?

Certainly Christ, God, existed before He was formed in Mary's womb. Did we exist in some way? Or did our essence/soul/spirit come into being when we were conceived? In light of the Jeremiah passage, I roll this around in my head and come to no firm conclusion. Any other thoughts?

I believe that God knew us before He formed us and before we were ever born, just like with Jeremiah. I don't believe we had any existence prior to our birth here on earth other than in the mind of God. But that alone is a mind bender. For God has always existed and to be always in the mind of God is hard to grasp.

But I believe it is supported in (John 3:3,7) where it says we are "born from above" . In other words our origin must be correct. From above. If our origin is correct, then we can be 'born again', as described in (John 3:5). "...Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom..." The implication is that if you are not from above, but are from the flesh, then you cannot be born again. And we who are from above, just like with Jeremiah, God will have always known us.

See also (Rom. 9:8-9)

Stranger

 

[bbyrd009]

how can one be born of water, and not have come from the mind of God, though? I am not finding this characterization of "born from above" in the John ref? It references "born of the Spirit," it seems like to me--the second birth. But i do see
13No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven—the Son of Man.

seems like you have to posit another Creator, for those you deem not one of "we," however you might do that.

 

[WalterandDebbie]

Hello! and how are you all? I'am glad of the above statements, and questions. But I know now for a fact that we all were born for a reason, but I could not think of any reason other than why we are here on this earth but to be who we are at this moment, because we was purchased by his/Jesus blood. As to being a few of us that are chosen according to his will.https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=we+were+purchased+by+the+blood+of+jesus

 

[bbyrd009]

Hello! and how are you all? I'am glad of the above statements, and questions. But I know now for a fact that we all were born for a reason, but I could not think of any reason other than why we are here on this earth but to be who we are at this moment, because we was purchased by his/Jesus blood. As to being a few of us that are chosen according to his will.https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=we+were+purchased+by+the+blood+of+jesus

as to that, i think many are persuaded that they are then qualified to identify believers based upon some criteria or other, when we can read passages about those who are "chosen" wherein the "unchosen" are not considered condemned, but rather just not chosen in the moment, and also about those who claim Christ with their lips who are considered unchosen. So a dichotomy remains that appears to defy your ref there.

 

[Brother James]

Thanks everyone. I don't think there is any "right" answer that can be fully supported biblically. I think God transmits his truths to us in the way that He does for a reason. When he said, "Tell them, I Am, has sent you" He chose the present tense on purpose. He could have said, "I Am, I Was, and I Always Will Be" sent you, but He did not. When he says, "I knew you" that is past tense. Perhaps I make more of it than is there, and I certainly don't have a particular belief on it. But it's interesting to contemplate.

 

[Stranger]

Thanks everyone. I don't think there is any "right" answer that can be fully supported biblically. I think God transmits his truths to us in the way that He does for a reason. When he said, "Tell them, I Am, has sent you" He chose the present tense on purpose. He could have said, "I Am, I Was, and I Always Will Be" sent you, but He did not. When he says, "I knew you" that is past tense. Perhaps I make more of it than is there, and I certainly don't have a particular belief on it. But it's interesting to contemplate.

What a cop out.

Stranger

 

[bbyrd009]

Thanks everyone. I don't think there is any "right" answer that can be fully supported biblically. I think God transmits his truths to us in the way that He does for a reason. When he said, "Tell them, I Am, has sent you" He chose the present tense on purpose. He could have said, "I Am, I Was, and I Always Will Be" sent you, but He did not. When he says, "I knew you" that is past tense. Perhaps I make more of it than is there, and I certainly don't have a particular belief on it. But it's interesting to contemplate.

ya, there is a strange tension, even there, in the bible. We are told that no one knows where they come from, or where they are going, and then that before we were born of water, we were known by God. We are told that we are going to have a different name after we physically die, too. So iow while we mostly focus on "where is Brother James going to be spending eternity" (likely completely misinterpreting the word "eternity," as "...from eternity to eternity" might tell us), it can be argued that no part of that concept is even supported by Scripture, in a certain sense; even if the consideration of other passages suggests this at first.

 

[Brother James]

What a cop out.

Stranger

This is one of the reasons I stay away from this board for such long stretches. I try to discuss something in good faith, and somebody decides it is more important to make another person feel small or somehow less rather than engage in respectful, thoughtful discussion. Oh well, I tried...

 

[Stranger]

This is one of the reasons I stay away from this board for such long stretches. I try to discuss something in good faith, and somebody decides it is more important to make another person feel small or somehow less rather than engage in respectful, thoughtful discussion. Oh well, I tried...

No need to feel less. But your response was, in my view, a cop out. You say now, "I try to discuss something in good faith". But that is just the point. You didn't. You got others viewpoints which were supported in Scripture, then you bailed. You offered no discussion other than no one can know. It has all the appearance of you discussing this elsewhere and needing some information.

You say, "Oh well, I tried". Tried what? You didn't respond to anyones post. And I don't think you ever intended to. mho. The posts are still there if you want to engage in thoughtful discussion.

Stranger

 

[bbyrd009]

Thanks everyone. I don't think there is any "right" answer that can be fully supported biblically. I think God transmits his truths to us in the way that He does for a reason. When he said, "Tell them, I Am, has sent you" He chose the present tense on purpose. He could have said, "I Am, I Was, and I Always Will Be" sent you, but He did not. When he says, "I knew you" that is past tense. Perhaps I make more of it than is there, and I certainly don't have a particular belief on it. But it's interesting to contemplate.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
are we ensouled right now, and revert to pure spirit after death, or did we have souls before we were born of water? i have no idea; but "I knew you" certainly seems to suggest the latter, huh.

 

[dorian37grey]

the purpose of Jeremiah was known before Jeremiah existed
and the person Jeremiah was known before he existed
or-
Jeremiah was a person created with a purpose already in mind in God's plan

this doesnt mean "we" are such a person thou of coarse we are known by God ( foreknowledge)

another example of this would be king David
as he had to be from Tamar, Rahab, and Ruth for all of this to work
had he come from a different linage ; the story wouldnt be the same

 

[BreadOfLife]

Hello! and how are you all? I'am glad of the above statements, and questions. But I know now for a fact that we all were born for a reason, but I could not think of any reason other than why we are here on this earth but to be who we are a this moment, because we was purchased by his/Jesus blood. As to being a few of us that are chosen according to his will.https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=we+were+purchased+by+the+blood+of+jesus

Hello! and how are you all? I'am glad of the above statements, and questions. But I know now for a fact that we all were born for a reason, but I could not think of any reason other than why we are here on this earth but to be who we are a this moment, because we was purchased by his/Jesus blood. As to being a few of us that are chosen according to his will.https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=we+were+purchased+by+the+blood+of+jesus

God wills the salvation of ALL people and that ALL come to a knowledge of the truth (1 Tim. 2:3-4).
He didn't create only "some" for Heaven and the rest for Hell.

 

[bbyrd009]

prolly a good idea to find out how the OT Sheol somehow got turned into Hades NT, and then Hell as we understand it today; it's an interesting study. There's an admission by an RCC bishop floating around about how the church invented hell--which i haven't read--or you can pretty much see for yourself, with a decent Lexicon. Heaven and hell as places one goes to after physical death goes against a bunch of Scripture, starting in about Samuel, and running through all the way to the Revelation of Christ.

 

[BreadOfLife]

prolly a good idea to find out how the OT Sheol somehow got turned into Hades NT, and then Hell as we understand it today; it's an interesting study. There's an admission by an RCC bishop floating around about how the church invented hell--which i haven't read--or you can pretty much see for yourself, with a decent Lexicon. Heaven and hell as places one goes to after physical death goes against a bunch of Scripture, starting in about Samuel, and running through all the way to the Revelation of Christ.

This is complete and total manure.
This is the kind of urban myth that people like YOU perpetuate out of total ignorance.

Before you make this kind of moronic and embarrassing comment - dop your homework.

 

[BreadOfLife]

This is complete and total manure.
This is the kind of urban myth that people like YOU perpetuate out of total ignorance.

Before you make this kind of moronic and embarrassing comment - it's "prolly" a good idea for you to do your homework.