Bible alone?

[amadeus]

Jesus constantly quoted Scripture. When asked what the most important rule for men to live by was, he quoted the shema from Scripture. When rebuking the devil, he quoted Scripture. When justifying his Messiaship, he quoted Scripture. Whenever he rebuked his detractors or disciples, he criticized their lack of understanding of the Scriptures.
The Holy Spirit helps us to understand Scripture, outside of assistance in personal issues,

To this point I was not standing contrary to you...as not all of these things are in my head. What is in my heart from the Lord with regard to the good things of God, was written there and quickened by the Holy Spirit. But... is that all that God has for men, even while here in this carnal body, specifically detailed in the written Bible?

"But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him." I Cor 2:9

it never imparts to us any theology outside of Scripture.

This last phrase means that the systematic study of God and our beliefs are never given to us without the written scriptures? I don't believe this is so. Things received outside the written scriptures may not ever contradict what men have written under God's inspiration , but God is not limited to given things to men only via the Bible.

"But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible." Matt 19:26

God is only limited in anything in which He has limited Himself as for instance He will not force a man to be saved if the man will not open himself up to God. By this men are able to limit God!

"Yea, they turned back and tempted God, and limited the Holy One of Israel." Psalm 78:41

 

[theefaith]

I believe the Bible or I would not quote it
Not the Bible alone of course
Acts 8 did the Bible alone lead the eunuch unto salvation?
We are not under the old law. Matt 16:18 matt 28:19 Lk 10:16 John 20:21-23 acts 1:17 Christ founded a church on Peter the apostles and their successors and they are commanded to teach the Christian Faith!

 

[theefaith]

Acts 2:42 they held fast to the false doctrine of the Bible is our sole authority, (not even Christ is included) or the doctrine of the apostles???

the Bible gives us the teaching authority of Peter the apostles and their successors with them being guaranteed by the Holy Spirit Jn 8:32 Jn 16:13

 

[DNB]

To this point I was not standing contrary to you...as not all of these things are in my head. What is in my heart from the Lord with regard to the good things of God, was written there and quickened by the Holy Spirit. But... is that all that God has for men, even while here in this carnal body, specifically detailed in the written Bible?

"But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him." I Cor 2:9


This last phrase means that the systematic study of God and our beliefs are never given to us without the written scriptures? I don't believe this is so. Things received outside the written scriptures may not ever contradict what men have written under God's inspiration , but God is not limited to given things to men only via the Bible.

"But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible." Matt 19:26

God is only limited in anything in which He has limited Himself as for instance He will not force a man to be saved if the man will not open himself up to God. By this men are able to limit God!

"Yea, they turned back and tempted God, and limited the Holy One of Israel." Psalm 78:41

I guess I am trying to make a distinction between theological matters, and personal wisdom and insights, as opposed to personal revelations of a change in God's covenants, decrees or doctrines.
My point is, Christian theology is derived solely from the Bible ie. Christology, Ecclesiology, Eschatology, Soteriology, Hamartiology, etc..
Personal revelation or insights into the meaning of these things, not the alteration of, are valid. The Spirit imparting wisdom and understanding to a believer, on doctrines that have been already established and solidified from Scripture, is expected and available. And, personal impartations from the Spirit about one's own life, decisions to make, work issues, familial issues, etc... are authentic.
This is the difference that I am referring to. It sounded like you are not limiting the Spirit's work even for doctrinal issues, I am.

 

[amadeus]

I guess I am trying to make a distinction between theological matters, and personal wisdom and insights, as opposed to personal revelations of a change in God's covenants, decrees or doctrines.
My point is, Christian theology is derived solely from the Bible ie. Christology, Ecclesiology, Eschatology, Soteriology, Hamartiology, etc..
Personal revelation or insights into the meaning of these things, not the alteration of, are valid. The Spirit imparting wisdom and understanding to a believer,

on doctrines that have been already established and solidified from Scripture,

I agree with what we read in this verse:

"For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven." Psalm 119:89

However, you speak of doctrines "already established and solidified from Scripture" by men. Men led by God of course can be right, but that men are also sometimes and even many times are wrong is seen on this forum and in the multitude of existing "Christian" denominations today. What is established and solidified for you may not be for me, or for John Doe over there..., if you understand me,

is expected and available. And, personal impartations from the Spirit about one's own life, decisions to make, work issues, familial issues, etc... are authentic.
This is the difference that I am referring to. It sounded like you are not limiting the Spirit's work even for doctrinal issues, I am.

I don't change or try to change the Word of God, but I know that I do not understand it all. I doubt that any other man I have met or that lives as a man still on planet Earth alone does! For me one of the keys, or even the key in our walk with and toward God, is found in always continuing to grow while there is still time. Something treated as being "already established and solidified" may well stifle us and may well limit God's ability to increase us... as I understand it.

 

[DNB]

I agree with what we read in this verse:

"For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven." Psalm 119:89

However, you speak of doctrines "already established and solidified from Scripture" by men. Men led by God of course can be right, but that men are also sometimes and even many times are wrong is seen on this forum and in the multitude of existing "Christian" denominations today. What is established and solidified for you may not be for me, or for John Doe over there..., if you understand me,


I don't change or try to change the Word of God, but I know that I do not understand it all. I doubt that any other man I have met or that lives as a man still on planet Earth alone does! For me one of the keys, or even the key in our walk with and toward God, is found in always continuing to grow while there is still time. Something treated as being "already established and solidified" may well stifle us and may well limit God's ability to increase us... as I understand it.

I see, ok, if I'm not mistaken, we are talking about the same thing.
Yes, you're right, there is no article of faith, from any theologian or denomination, from anywhere in history and the world, that has ever definitively established God's Word, in its entirety.
Yes, and in order to do so, we pray that God enlightens us accordingly, so that we may not misconstrue or corrupt His divine counsel.
...and we pray, that we don't delude ourselves in believing that every thought or notion that passes through our minds, is inspired by His Holy Spirit.
And, outside of theological matters, we hope that we are faithful enough to receive from Him guidance in our personal lives, when it is in accordance with His will.
Thanks Amadeus, sorry for the confusion there, ...assuming that I still haven't misunderstood you?

 

[amadeus]

I see, ok, if I'm not mistaken, we are talking about the same thing.
Yes, you're right, there is no article of faith, from any theologian or denomination, from anywhere in history and the world, that has ever definitively established God's Word, in its entirety.
Yes, and in order to do so, we pray that God enlightens us accordingly, so that we may not misconstrue or corrupt His divine counsel.
...and we pray, that we don't delude ourselves in believing that ever thought or notion that passes through our minds, is inspired by His Holy Spirit.
And, outside of theological matters, we hope that we are faithful enough to receive from Him guidance in our personal lives, when it is in accordance with His will.
Thanks Amadeus, sorry for the confusion there, ...assuming that I still haven't misunderstood you?

We're OK and yes, when it comes right down to it, we are pretty close together on this point. Sometimes the problem is simply one of communication!

 

[DNB]

We're OK and yes, when it comes right down to it, we are pretty close together on this point. Sometimes the problem is simply one of communication!

Agreed, thanks!

 

[Taken]

From the Bible alone how do we know what is the Bible and what is not the Bible?

Observe society over the past several hundred years...and compare older Bibles to the more modern Bibles...and you will find modern Bibles more of a reflection of society than a reflection of Gods Word.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[bbyrd009]

From the Bible alone how do we know what is the Bible and what is not the Bible?

Paul really most likely said "All Writings are good for..." anyway, fwiw. The diff in graphe and gramme i guess. It is xlated to us as "Scripture" but that is scribing apparently

Christ founded a church on Peter the apostles and their successors

huh? Maybe in Carholicism, but not in the Bible i dont think

are you a Carholic?

and they are commanded to teach the Christian Faith!

Bible Search: teach the Christian Faith

the Bible gives us the teaching authority

ah, but who is this "us?"

 

[CadyandZoe]

From the Bible alone how do we know what is the Bible and what is not the Bible?

It's like gold. You know it when you see it.

 

[Marymog]

..........
huh? Maybe in Carholicism, but not in the Bible i dont think

are you a Carholic? ......."

the Bible does say that The Church was built upon Peter and the Apostles in Matthew 16:18 and Ephesians 2:20.

Bible Study Mary

 

[bbyrd009]

the Bible does say that The Church was built upon Peter and the Apostles in Matthew 16:18 and Ephesians 2:20.

Bible Study Mary

15“But what about you?” Jesus asked. “Who do you say I am?”
16Simon Peter answered, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”
17Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah!b For this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by My Father in heaven.
18And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades will not prevail against it.
19I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven. Whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.”
20Then He admonished the disciples not to tell anyone that He was the Christ.

so, it could be interpreted that way by a literal thinker, yes, but i suggest that "this rock" being alluded to does not have to be "Peter" at all, but rather the "this" already invoked in v17, as v20 even reinforces. Paul writes that way in all his letters..., apparently

 

[theefaith]

You don’t give the keys to yourself or to a confession of faith but to a person, Peter! He is the head of the church on earth, the prince of the Apostles, see Is 22 the prime minister holds the keys under the king and administers the kingdom for the king, Jn 21:17

 

[Marymog]

15“But what about you?” Jesus asked. “Who do you say I am?”
16Simon Peter answered, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”
17Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah!b For this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by My Father in heaven.
18And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades will not prevail against it.
19I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven. Whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.”
20Then He admonished the disciples not to tell anyone that He was the Christ.

so, it could be interpreted that way by a literal thinker, yes, but i suggest that "this rock" being alluded to does not have to be "Peter" at all, but rather the "this" already invoked in v17, as v20 even reinforces. Paul writes that way in all his letters..., apparently

Thank you for you thoughtful suggestion.

Also, thank you for reminding me about Paul. When talking about the Church in Corinth Paul said that "HE laid a foundation, and another man is building upon it." In that passage (1 Corinthians 3:10–11) Paul is not claiming to have laid the foundation of the universal Church since he wasn’t even a Christian when that was done in Matthew 16:18. Thus he is speaking of Christ as the foundation of the local, not the universal, Church. Scripture says in 1 Peter 2:6 that Jesus is The Church’s cornerstone, not its foundation. A cornerstone is only one piece of the foundation and this does NOT exclude other pieces. Which brings us back to the aforementioned Ephesians 2:20 which says the household of God is “built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone.” Another passage in context to all this is Revelation 21:14 where New Jerusalem is said to have not one foundation, but twelve foundations, with the names of the apostles.

SUMMARY: 1 Peter 2: Christ is the cornerstone of the Church
1 Corinthians 3: Christ is the foundation of the local Church
Ephesians 2: Christ is the cornerstone with the apostles and New Testament prophets as the foundation
Revelation 21: the foundation is the Twelve
Matthew 16: the rock is Peter

So, when taking all of scripture into context concerning this matter, it is VERY clear that your "suggestion" should be re-evaluated.

Bible Study Mary

 

[theefaith]

Beautiful!

 

[Candidus]

It is an impossibility to demand Sola Scriptura, for millions have claimed it, and not one of them agree on everything the Scriptures say.

Why is that?

Culture, presumption, ignorance, limited understanding, confirmation bias, and pride are a few of the reasons. While through Scripture Alone we can usually come to a limited consensus, to imagine that we are capable of doing so is hubris.

While I would admit severe limitations on the policy, I would agree that it is our best hope of knowing God and truth with the assistance of the Holy Spirit.

 

[theefaith]

True it only produces spiritual chaos and anarchy, the teaching authority of the apostles and their successors thru the power of the Holy Spirit produces unity and obedience of faith

 

[amadeus]

True it only produces spiritual chaos and anarchy, the teaching authority of the apostles and their successors thru the power of the Holy Spirit produces unity and obedience of faith

Were things better before anyone spoke or wrote or tried to live only Sola Scriptura? Were there any good reasons for a reformation to occur?

 

[theefaith]

No! It’s not biblical? Where does the Bible say have a reformation? It does not cos the church is the spotless bride of Christ! Neither the church or divine revelation can be reformed because they are from God! And there was no reformation only a revolt instead, they did not reform the church, but without any authority started new ones and only Christ has that authority mt 16:18 and none of the reformers were apostles! Eph 2:20
And the church cannot teach error! Jn 20:21-23 Jn 16:13 Jn 8:32