Calling all Law Keepers.

[GodsGrace]

This point cannot be restated enough.

Hebrews 10:27 but a certain terrifying expectation of judgment, and the fury of a fire which will consume the adversaries. 28 Anyone who has set aside the Law of Moses dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 How much severer punishment do you think he will deserve who has trampled under foot the Son of God, and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has insulted the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know Him who said, "Vengeance is mine, I will repay." And again, "The Lord will judge his people." 31 It is a terrifying thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

Hebrews 6:4 It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5 who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age 6 and who have fallen away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.

2 Peter 2:20 If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and are overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning. 21 It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than to have known it and then to turn their backs on the sacred command that was passed on to them.

Late here.
Tomorrow.
Just want to say...
You really know how to pick your verses!
Now, if only some here didn't TWIST them around, as they so often do.
Night.

 

[bbyrd009]

Reflect and respond on whatever thread you want that I am part of or not part of and be sure to take me out of context, don't disappoint.

well, i might be doing that unintentionally, but i am not meaning to. How do you feel the context has been ignored here? I mean, Jesus is telling us to confess one to another, and you are saying that confession ("...unto salvation," no less) = "being under the law." How am i supposed to reconcile these?

 

[bbyrd009]

You sure see a lot!

ha. didn't mean to make anything of it lol, but imo there are no unintended coincidences, as a rule.

 

[Armadillo]

well, i might be doing that unintentionally, but i am not meaning to. How do you feel the context has been ignored here? I mean, Jesus is telling us to confess one to another, and you are saying that confession ("...unto salvation," no less) = "being under the law." How am i supposed to reconcile these?

The sinner lays a hand on the head of a spotless animal and sin was transferred into the body of the animal, then killed as a sacrifice, bearing sins in its body. The spotless lamb, Jesus, bore our sins in His body making payment for all. God found no pleasure in animal sacrifice and it was always His plan from the beginning to redeem us and He is very pleased with His beloved Son, our Redeemer. God has always been about having a relationship with us, not religion. God is not distant, religion says He is.

Romans 10:9, If you declare with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

The confession is to confess Jesus is Lord, this is the good confession. To confess your sins that are already paid for by His blood is a work of the flesh.

The Holy Spirit convicts the world of sin, the sin of unbelief.

John 16:8, When he comes, he will prove the world to be in the wrong about sin and righteousness and judgment:

Believers are not of the world.

John 15:19, If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own. As it is, you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world. That is why the world hates you.

 

[Richard_oti]

Agree and made it bold. Does this not speak to that which is our our hearts?

At least what should and hopefully is in our hearts. There again though, to what extent. That seems to be a variable. According to Ezekiel 36:27, when "God" places His Spirit upon us, it shall cause us to do.

We do because we love...we don't do because "God DEMANDS it" as someone keeps saying..with emphasis.

For myself, it was indeed the response of "love". Perhaps "demands", "asks" and "woos" are merely a case of semantics. For as I grew in knowledge, I also did not see anyway but to walk in obedience via the Spirit. I can not see direct disobedience as an option. Unless of course one desires the second death.

When I quoted yours, I lost all my quotes between...so it doesn't make much sense to me now.

No problem. I also get lost around here.

But, I think maybe we are closer than it seems...I read some others of your posts which I 'liked' so maybe it was just the way i 'read' you , but probably did not understand.

You probably "read" me correctly. I may be a tweener around here. Somewhere in "between" most.

<snip>

 

[Richard_oti]

This point cannot be restated enough.
<snip>

Hebrews 6:4 It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5 who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age 6 and who have fallen away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.

2 Peter 2:20 If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and are overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning. 21 It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than to have known it and then to turn their backs on the sacred command that was passed on to them.

"Go and sin no more, lest a worse thing befall you" [John 5:14].

 

[Helen]

At least what should and hopefully is in our hearts. There again though, to what extent. That seems to be a variable. According to Ezekiel 36:27, when "God" places His Spirit upon us, it shall cause us to do.


For myself, it was indeed the response of "love". Perhaps "demands", "asks" and "woos" are merely a case of semantics. For as I grew in knowledge, I also did not see anyway but to walk in obedience via the Spirit. I can not see direct disobedience as an option. Unless of course one desires the second death.

No problem. I also get lost around here.

You probably "read" me correctly. I may be a tweener around here. Somewhere in "between" most.

<snip>

Thanks for taking time to respond...good post...I am sure as you say...much is probably semantics ..and what we say gets lost in translation.

I am a bit dumb ....but I have to ask...what is the <snip> thingy at the end of your posts?
Thanks

 

[KBCid]

"Go and sin no more, lest a worse thing befall you" [John 5:14].

Yeeeeessssss!!!!!
I was hoping there would be another chime in and you have not disappointed.
One voice One mind One body ONE GOD

 

[Richard_oti]

You sin because you are human, simple, it is why Jesus went to the cross, and you will always sin untill you die or we are changed in the twinkling of an eye, untill than we have grace. I do not know of anyone who does not sin, but I do know a few who are no longer judged fro they have past from death to life, sin is no longer a factor.

Yet it remains, there is a difference. Willful sin according to Hebrews 10 is not something to be done or taken lightly from my perspective. 1 John 5 speaks / alludes to sin unto death and not unto death.

So basically, the difference between you and I is the "measure" or "standard" from which we receive / perceive and define "love" and "sin" / "right" and "wrong".

Rom 3:20b for through the law cometh the knowledge of sin.

 

[Richard_oti]

<snip>
I am a bit dumb ....but I have to ask...what is the <snip> thingy at the end of your posts?
Thanks

It is indicative that I removed some text. As in the above, I removed your opening statement. Thus the <snip> prior to that which is quoted above. It is from the ol' days, a carry over from years ago.

 

[KBCid]

Yet it remains, there is a difference. Willful sin according to Hebrews 10 is not something to be done or taken lightly from my perspective. 1 John 5 speaks / alludes to sin unto death and not unto death.
So basically, the difference between you and I is the "measure" or "standard" from which we receive / perceive and define "love" and "sin" / "right" and "wrong".
Rom 3:20b for through the law cometh the knowledge of sin.

The Spirit gave the messages for a purpose. The Spirit is not to be taken lightly since such an action would be dismissing the words God has sent for our benefit. Since God does not change then everything he has deemed in the OT a sin is still a sin and to make sure mention is made.... Christ expanded the meaning of the OT commandments to a closer wording reflecting the intent that was originally meant. Now hating others is the equivalent of murder. Why should all this occur if it has no meaning in the life of those who assert that they follow Christ?
You already know this Richard and what is stated is simply in support.

 

[Richard_oti]

<snip>
I just don't understand your zeal for the law.

I do, I understand it, I like it, I admire it, and I wish there was more of it amoung "believers". That however does not mean that I judge nor condemn those who don't.

However, "zeal" also needs to be tempered. A process which is currently under way. I look forward to perhaps seeing the finished "steel".

David loved the law, it was a light unto his feet, unto his path.

<snip>

 

[Richard_oti]

The Spirit gave the messages for a purpose. The Spirit is not to be taken lightly since such an action would be dismissing the words God has sent for our benefit. Since God does not change then everything he has deemed in the OT a sin is still a sin and to make sure mention is made.... Christ expanded the meaning of the OT commandments to a closer wording reflecting the intent that was originally meant. Now hating others is the equivalent of murder. Why should all this occur if it has no meaning in the life of those who assert that they follow Christ?

Indubitably.

<snip>

 

[Dcopymope]

The 'law' supposedly is of no effect, yet those that keep his 'commandments' are blessed and given the right to eat of the tree of life. I do wonder what commandments could those possibly be?

(Revelation 12:17) "And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ."

(Revelation 14:12) "Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus."

(Revelation 22:14-15) "Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. {15} For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie."

 

[Helen]

I do, I understand it, I like it, I admire it, and I wish there was more of it amoung "believers". That however does not mean that I judge nor condemn those who don't.

However, "zeal" also needs to be tempered. A process which is currently under way. I look forward to perhaps seeing the finished "steel".

David loved the law, it was a light unto his feet, unto his path.

<snip>

The very same David that KNEW THE HEART of His God...and knew the heart of the issue was higher than the law...he knew God was a lover and he himself was a lover...so he went in and took the Holy shew Bread which " by law" was forbidden except for the priesthood...and he fed his hungry men..but , his relationship with his God was solid....he knew the law, but ( I believe) by his prophetical anointing saw into the grace in his Father. With confidence David took the Holy bread.
< no snip>
( Was the Sabath for man or man for the Sabath...)

 

[Richard_oti]

<snip>
< no snip>

<chuckle>

( Was the Sabath for man or man for the Sabath...)

Mark 2:27
(Why take up the collection on the first day of the week...)

Heb 4:10 For he that is entered into his rest hath himself also rested from his works, as God did from his.

 

[mjrhealth]

So basically, the difference between you and I is the "measure" or "standard" from which we receive / perceive and define "love" and "sin" / "right" and "wrong".

I guess you missed it all, you see none keep teh law, not one.. for one to keep the law one must nor break the law, if one breaks the law than one is not keeping it..

You know this bit,

Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Rom 8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

But you see, the law is the flesh, and so those who choose the law will always be condemned, for that is what the law does.

Remember the woman perused by the religious who wanted to kill her, by every account Jesus "by the law ", should have stoned her to death, but He choose as God would do, teh grace, Love bit, she certainly didnt deserve it, never earned it, and yet here we see the religious still killing people just like them,, by teh law, if thats what you really want to do, than that is your problem..

 

[mjrhealth]

well, listen to yourself. "It served, but it failed," "the sinner who could not keep it was served," i mean c'mon mjr. Can i suggest that even when this law-breaker begins finally keeping this law, that is when the law has failed, see, because there is no law that says "hate yourself" or "die for your friends." So keeping the law perfectly, a la Job, is a fail, as the Book illustrates.

If one has a law they cannot keep, and they wish to remain under grace, they are required to confess their sin and rebound. And the law cannot be said to have failed in this scenario. Society is obviously served in this law-breaker realizing his sin. And we have a built in detector for hypocrisy, right, it is obvious if someone is struggling with an issue or has no intention of rebounding in the tone of their apology.

Well i hope you get it one day, than you wont be so confused. Can you keep teh law without breaking it, i do seriously doubt it, as none keep teh law not one because as they admit the are not perfect. Whats it going to be law or grace, one or teh other...

 

[mjrhealth]

i find it hard to quantify myself, but may i ask how simply having faith in Christ--which after all should mostly manifest in you being a better person to others, right--could cost you your family?

Something to do with, not my will but your will be done, tends to put you in teh firing line, I chose God she chose the world as is so often teh case, and I got off lightly.

 

[mjrhealth]

"Grace demands nothing?"

you got it well done. Pat on the back...