You are assuming that faith in Jesus is of the flesh.
Lord, open their eyes to the truth!
Calvinism is a Cult
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Lord, open their eyes to the truth!
SovereignGrace
Certified Flunky
Nope. Try again.
The Lord has ALREADY opened my eyes to His truths. Thank you very much!
No; because you are hardening your heart to certain truths of scripture.
I think that you also see my points clearly, but are steeped in your theology and must have emotional reasons for wanting to keep it.
Therefore, you will not bend or admit that you are wrong from a public perspective.
You just want to save face; because you have been shown that you are wrong, but will not publicly admit it..
Here is the major issue with anyone believing you:
1.) We have time and again shown that your "plain" Scripture is actually your misinterpretation of verses by taking them out of context. I have especially shown you this by pointing out that your theology is contradicted within the same chapter of most of the verses that you pull out of context.
2.) Even after showing you these contradictions, you redouble the problem by falling back on yet other misinterpretations, or needing to rely on vague metaphors or appeals to feelings, because the Scriptural base for your theology is so weak.
3.) You are constantly dodging the questions asked you, insisting that others answer yours; this is not how a proper defense of the faith is done.
And you say we want to save face, and we are proven wrong. How can you prove us wrong when Scripture contradicts you? And even though you deny it does, you are never able to give a justifiable reason as to why; in your mind I suppose we are supposed to be satisfied with you simply denying it without giving us a single in-context verse to support such a claim.
You claim we have emotional reason for wanting to keep our theology, when you are the one making non-Biblical claims such as "The Holy Spirit is a gentleman; he'll never do anything unless you want Him to", a phrase which is purposely targeted to hit people emotionally, and make them say "It feels so right, it just can't be wrong!" Where do you see any of us trying to appeal to man's emotions? Where are we throwing out things like "God is ALL love! He's just a big ball of LOVE." ? Nowhere. Before you go making accusations, you may want to remove the log in your own eye. Our faith is not based on emotion. It is based on a real, truthful, genuine relationship with Christ, and a through examination of the Scriptures.
And the Lord replied, "I would love to, but I can't! There free will.... it is too powerful. They have to choose me first!"
Even you contradict your theology unless you consciously keep it up
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Contingent Grace (To the tune of Amazing Grace).
contingent grace how sweet the sound
that saves by works foreseen
I once was lost but came around
was blind but chose to see
'twas grace that looked ahead in time
and saw that I would be
never bound by sin and such
but with a will that's free
contingent grace how sweet the sound
that saves by works foreseen
I once was lost but came around
was blind but chose to see
'twas grace that looked ahead in time
and saw that I would be
never bound by sin and such
but with a will that's free
It means, I give up.
You are not going to see the truth on this matter until the Holy Spirit shows you...you are going to have to have a supernatural revelation in which you begin to take Romans 5:2 at face value instead of doing what you are doing...convoluting the text by trying to look for contradictions to the plain meaning of the text within the context.
The context of a verse never contradicts the plain meaning of the verse.
If you cannot see by now that we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and that we are saved by grace through faith; if you are going to deny what this plainly means because you think that the context contradicts it, then I cannot help you.
I will only say that if you have not confessed Jesus Christ as your Lord and Saviour before men, believing in your heart that God hath raised Him from the dead, then you have never been born again, and have never passed from death unto life.
If you hold to Calvinistic teaching because you want to believe that you can be a recipient of grace apart from believing in Jesus Christ, then you are trusting in a lie and the Lord will judge you on that day regardless; because you have been warned.
He may strive with you for a season longer; but there will come a point in which He will leave you to your opinion that you don't need to confess Him as Lord; however, on that day He will be the One to judge you over the fact that you never did confess Him.
Now if you say, "But I did confess Him", then consider that your theology provides for those who have not confessed Him a way out so that they can think that they can and will go to heaven in spite of the fact that they have not confessed Him: it gives them a false sense of assurance that will not fly on their day of judgment. And if they never receive Jesus as their Lord and Saviour because you preached to them this wrong theology, you will be held accountable for their souls being lost.
You are not going to see the truth on this matter until the Holy Spirit shows you...you are going to have to have a supernatural revelation in which you begin to take Romans 5:2 at face value instead of doing what you are doing...convoluting the text by trying to look for contradictions to the plain meaning of the text within the context.
The context of a verse never contradicts the plain meaning of the verse.
If you cannot see by now that we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and that we are saved by grace through faith; if you are going to deny what this plainly means because you think that the context contradicts it, then I cannot help you.
I will only say that if you have not confessed Jesus Christ as your Lord and Saviour before men, believing in your heart that God hath raised Him from the dead, then you have never been born again, and have never passed from death unto life.
If you hold to Calvinistic teaching because you want to believe that you can be a recipient of grace apart from believing in Jesus Christ, then you are trusting in a lie and the Lord will judge you on that day regardless; because you have been warned.
He may strive with you for a season longer; but there will come a point in which He will leave you to your opinion that you don't need to confess Him as Lord; however, on that day He will be the One to judge you over the fact that you never did confess Him.
Now if you say, "But I did confess Him", then consider that your theology provides for those who have not confessed Him a way out so that they can think that they can and will go to heaven in spite of the fact that they have not confessed Him: it gives them a false sense of assurance that will not fly on their day of judgment. And if they never receive Jesus as their Lord and Saviour because you preached to them this wrong theology, you will be held accountable for their souls being lost.
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I am not convaluting the meaning. For at least the 10th time, I am not contradicting you, SCRIPTURE is contradicting you. I believe every word of what this verse says. It is talking to those who already were given the gift of faith from the Holy Spirit, telling them that by this faith given by God, we have access to a multitude of other graces that are promised specifically to believers. Paul even prefaces a verse or 2 before by saying, "My dear brothers." Read the first few verses of the book; tell me to whom Paul was addressing the letter; he spells it out pretty well. Once we see who the 'we' is, we can then understand the verse as it was meant to be read.
We are saved by grace, correct. See, we are learning. I agree the Bible does not contradict itself.... I just suggested you read it a bit more thoroughly. You contradicted yourself in this very statement; do you believe we are saved by grace, or that we are saved by our own faith?
No, I hold to this doctrine because I believe that there was nothing in me that was worthy of saving. That I would have never come to Christ if He had not drawn me by His irresistible power. That I was not smart, cunning, or anything of the sort. That I have no merit in front of God, and that ALL that I have is of Him, through Him, and to Him, to whom be power and glory forever. I believe this because my faith is not based on emotion or on a sense of self-security; my faith is based on a thorough study of the Word of God, and of the power of the Holy Spirit.
I do confess Him as my Lord, but only after He has confessed to me that I am his servant.
1 John 4:19
I do not understand this statement at all. Please elaborate. Unless of course you don't want to anymore.
The power of the Lord can be resisted:
Act 7:51, Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.
Of course the Holy Ghost is not exactly the same as God's power; however that is besides the point. The point is that when God calls us to Himself, we are capable of resisting that call.
edited #609.
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So born again believers have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand. Does this say that we did not first have access by faith?
That one moment we did not have faith, and the next we did; and obtained access into grace through that faith the moment we came into it, should be evident.
The fact that we continue to have access into grace by faith does not mean that we did not initially enter into grace through faith.
This whole thing is really ridiculous; and eradicates the basis for coming into salvation in the first place.
It implies that a person can be saved apart from faith in Jesus Christ.
Because if grace comes before faith, then I do not need faith to enter into grace.
So I can just go on my merry way believing that I am a recipient of grace even if I have not placed my faith in Jesus and in His finished work on the Cross for my salvation.
While the crux of the gospel message is that we must believe in Jesus in order to be saved.
That "Calvinism is a Cult" therefore ends up being an understatement.
It is a dangerous doctrine that undermines the entry point into salvation and implies that men do not need to enter in through the door using the key.
I doubt the salvation of those who believe such a view; for why do they believe in it? It may be because they do not themselves want to enter in through the door using the key.
That one moment we did not have faith, and the next we did; and obtained access into grace through that faith the moment we came into it, should be evident.
The fact that we continue to have access into grace by faith does not mean that we did not initially enter into grace through faith.
This whole thing is really ridiculous; and eradicates the basis for coming into salvation in the first place.
It implies that a person can be saved apart from faith in Jesus Christ.
Because if grace comes before faith, then I do not need faith to enter into grace.
So I can just go on my merry way believing that I am a recipient of grace even if I have not placed my faith in Jesus and in His finished work on the Cross for my salvation.
While the crux of the gospel message is that we must believe in Jesus in order to be saved.
That "Calvinism is a Cult" therefore ends up being an understatement.
It is a dangerous doctrine that undermines the entry point into salvation and implies that men do not need to enter in through the door using the key.
I doubt the salvation of those who believe such a view; for why do they believe in it? It may be because they do not themselves want to enter in through the door using the key.
1.) The Holy Spirit is God, just as much as the Father is God.
Acts 7:51 clearly teaches why grace must be irresistible. While it is true that those in Acts 7:51 resisted the Holy Spirit, the text clearly states that the people in question had "uncircumcised" hearts and ears. Circumcised in the Old Testament is language used for the regenerate (Deut 30:6; Ezek 36:26). In addition, these Acts 7:51 uncircumcised individuals are described as "stiff-necked." This is their natural state. So, Acts 7:51 actually confirms the absolute necessity of irresistible grace, as there is no other way such people could ever be regenerated.
No. This is why we need to look at the whole of the Scriptures to find the answer. And when we do, we find:
Jeremiah 17:9-10
The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately sick; who can understand it?
Genesis 6:5
The Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intention of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
Mark 7:21-23
For from within, out of the heart of man, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, coveting, wickedness, deceit, sensuality, envy, slander, pride, foolishness. All these evil things come from within, and they defile a person.”
Matthew 12:34
You brood of vipers! How can you speak good, when you are evil? For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks.
Ecclesiastes 9:3
This is an evil in all that is done under the sun, that the same event happens to all. Also, the hearts of the children of man are full of evil, and madness is in their hearts while they live, and after that they go to the dead.
But most importantly:
1 Corinthians 2:14
The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.
Man's heart, as it is, is sinful; it does not want to choose God; It loves darkness rather than light. This is why it takes a work of God to change the hearts of men. The grace of a new, clean, spiritually discerning heart is needed before we can have faith.
No, it irradicates man's part to play; it yanks your hand out of it, and places your salvation fully under God's control. Yes, faith is important, no one ever denied that. But the faith I believe in is a gift from God, which makes it even more important than a faith based on my own abilities.
We have placed our trust in the work of Christ on the Cross, but this faith is given to our unclean hearts by God. It is a faith we never would have attained without Him.
Door and key.... tell me the verse in the Bible where it says "You in and of yourself alone have a key... now use it to unlock the door of to heaven"
I doubt the faith of those who rely on feelings and extra-Biblical metaphors to build their theology, because any and all Scripture they give as defense is taken out of context and misrepresented.
Again, read the context and who he is talking to. This verse shows the power of God in salvation, that He can take men such as these and change their hearts and make them willing. The natural man is indeed rebellious; this is why irresistable grace is needed. We are all this man, running from God, and until He reaches us, we will never have faith in Him.
We might gain access into a room through a door using a key.
The biblical metaphor is that Jesus is the door that leads into the room we call grace; and that faith in Jesus is the key that opens the door.
Romans 5:2.
Nothing about a door or a key here.... and we have already dealt with this verse multiple times, giving you the Biblical interpretation of it in context of both the chapter and the rest of Scripture.
So this is it? You whole theology about man's place before God's power built on this one verse? Can you not stand on any of the rest of Scripture as well? Or have I and the others already dealt with every verse supporting your theology, and shown you what the bible really says. Is that why you are 'giving up'?
We have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand. Romans 5:2.
This is the opposite order of what the Calvinist preaches: "We have access by grace into this faith in which we stand."
If there is one verse in the Bible that contradicts a theology (though Romans 5:2 is not the only verse that does this), that theology should be cast to the carpet.
This is the opposite order of what the Calvinist preaches: "We have access by grace into this faith in which we stand."
If there is one verse in the Bible that contradicts a theology (though Romans 5:2 is not the only verse that does this), that theology should be cast to the carpet.
I am giving up because there is spiritual blindness that is preventing you from seeing what is plainly set before you. Why should I continue to quote the same verse to you over and over? You obviously don't see its plain meaning. And my re-quoting it isn't going to change that.
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