Can a tare become saved?

[Dash RipRock]

Care to share them?

Why would I bother to do that?
The answers would come from God's Word, and you don't accept God's Word

Anyone claiming to be a Christian who acknowledges that they don't accept God's Word are publicly letting everyone know they are tares and not a real Christian.

 

[Scott Downey]

Paul teaches in Romans that "every person has the measure of Faith".

However, that does not mean that God causes anyone to believe in Christ.
What God does is REQUIRE our Faith in His Son.



James 2 teaches that you can have "dead faith".

So, we see that the Holy Spirit is not maintaining it for you.



Notice.

"Depart from me, i never knew you".....Jesus said.....and he's talking to many disciples.

What's their problem?

= They are followers, who are keeping Jesus's words,....... but they are not born again, so, Jesus does not "know them".

See....,when God "knows" you, is when you become joined to God Spiritually, as born again., "In Christ".




Notice.

"Depart from me, i never knew you".....Jesus said.....and he's talking to many disciples.

What their problem?

They are followers, who are keeping Jesus's words,....... but they are not born again, so, Jesus does not "know them".

See,when God "knows" you, is when you become joined to God Spiritually, as born again., "In Christ".




As long as you are born again, and not just water baptized and religious.




I dont change Paul's Doctrine.
I just teach it.



The Christian, born again, is already Made Righteous, based on the "imputed righteousness of Christ"'

This doesn't ever end.
So, if a "made righteous" Christian is confessing "sin" then they dont understand the finished work of Jesus on the Cross.
They dont understand their Salvation.




The "Gift of Salvation" is not a process.

Being born again, is not a process.

Being "made righteous" is instant, and forever.




Sin, is defined by the Law.
So, if a person is under the law, then their carnality, = is defined by the Law, as SIN.

However, "where there is NO LAW... there is no sin, (Transgression).""""""

A.) The born again are : "Not under the Law.......but under Grace".




Jesus dying on the Cross is our Salvation.
You can't work that out.

So, its like this..

Here is how i teach my students to understand your verse.

"Work out your Salvation, in AWE and WONDER":..........as that is how to understand the verse, correctly.

Also, we are not trying to work to stay saved.... as we already have God's Salvation, as "The Gift of Salvation" given to the BELIEVER.

So, now Having it...........we are to learn how to exist within it, according to revelation knowledge that is the Knowledge of God.
This informantion is taught by Paul.

Scripture says
Romans 12:3
For I say, through the grace given to me, to everyone who is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think soberly, as God has dealt to each one (among you, that is the believers) a measure of faith.
***********************************
So it is not that the unbelieving have faith in Christ, just that the believing, God has given them faith, and with that many other scriptures agree, such as

Acts 3:16
And His name, through faith in His name, has made this man strong, whom you see and know. Yes, the faith which comes through Him has given him this perfect soundness in the presence of you all.

And Jesus is the author and finisher of our faith, I take that personally, not in a general sense, as God is a personal God.

Hebrews 12, is about our personal faith and the disciplining we receive as sons from God, it is very personal.
************************************
1 Therefore we also, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which so easily ensnares us, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us, 2 looking unto Jesus, the [a]author and [b]finisher of our faith, who for the joy that was set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.

The Discipline of God​

3 For consider Him who endured such hostility from sinners against Himself, lest you become weary and discouraged in your souls. 4 You have not yet resisted to bloodshed, striving against sin. 5 And you have forgotten the exhortation which speaks to you as to sons:

“My son, do not despise the [c]chastening of the Lord,
Nor be discouraged when you are rebuked by Him;
6 For whom the Lord loves He chastens,
And scourges every son whom He receives.”

7 If[d] you endure chastening, God deals with you as with sons; for what son is there whom a father does not chasten? 8 But if you are without chastening, of which all have become partakers, then you are illegitimate and not sons. 9 Furthermore, we have had human fathers who corrected us, and we paid them respect. Shall we not much more readily be in subjection to the Father of spirits and live? 10 For they indeed for a few days chastened us as seemed best to them, but He for our profit, that we may be partakers of His holiness. 11 Now no [e]chastening seems to be joyful for the present, but painful; nevertheless, afterward it yields the peaceable fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it.

The Lord loves the sons whom he is bringing to glory, and that is why He disciples only them, He disciples those He love.
No one can say that of unbelievers.

8 But if you are without chastening, of which all have become partakers, then you are illegitimate and not sons.

 

[Behold]

God has given them faith,

Actually, Jesus told you, that "all who believe in me, I give unto you eternal life".

So, that is not God causing you to believe, that is you choosing to believe in Jesus.

Welcome to your Free Will @Scott Downey

Or as Paul told you....>>"ALL who believe in Jesus, shall be saved"........and notice he didnt say......>>"all who God causes, forces, or coerces to believe"... as Lying Calvinists teach about the source of : "faith".

 

[Ronald Nolette]

I'm not "rationalizing" anything, Ronald. But yes, God's eternal decree, for sure. It is what it is. My intent is to make things clearer using everyday human terms, if you will, but still, it is what it is.

Grace and peace to you.

If yourt trademark slogan "it is what it is" means that God seeks the lost sheep and not the goats or He gathers the wheat He planted and not turning tares to wheat, I agree! that is the word of God.

 

[PinSeeker]

Believing in... something.

I agree, but it has to be given you first. You don't assure yourself; such would be an empty assurance. The assurance has to come from outside of yourself, else you cannot use it, and thus you will not believe in that something.

You get to Choose, (Free Will) where you place YOUR Faith, as its yours to use, as you choose.

Yes, but if God has not given you His assurance of salvation, your faith will be always be in something else, and thus you will never use your free will to choose God. As I said, it's not about having or not having free will... of course we have free will. But we need a new spirit other than our natural one ~ a heart of flesh rather than a heart of stone ~ to exercise our free will correctly.

Ok, you are teaching Calvinism nonsense, again.

Okay, well, I am a Calvinist, sure. In the same vein, you, Behold, are an Arminian, and I say you are teaching Arminian nonsense (even if you don't know it and/or don't know who Jacobus Arminius was). And you are. <smile> John Calvin was right; Jacobus Arminius was wrong.

God does not give anyone faith in Christ.

This is in direct refutation of the very definition of faith according to Hebrews 11:1... "faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen." We certainly hope, but the assurance of that hope comes from God. As I have said many times, you cannot assure yourself of what is hoped for or conviction of things not seen.

God does not cause anyone to Believe in Jesus.

And I have agreed many times. Our belief in Jesus is the inevitable result of our having been given this new spirit, even the Holy Spirit. It is our changed heart that then prompts us to believe.

God is not looking for His faith........He's looking for YOURS...

Right, and if He gives it to you, he will "find it." LOL!

Everyone has faith.

Sure, but not saving faith, as I've said many times. Everyone has faith in something, yes, but in all cases, they've gotten it from someone or something.

... THEIR Faith, in Christ., as God requires before He will give them ": "the gift of Salvation".

That is exactly backwards. One cannot have any kind of faith ~ which again is assurance ~ unless he or she has been given it. We must see to believe.

In eternity, unbelievers will not be judged for sin...they will judged this way.. at the GWTJ

Right, and they will sit in this judgment for eternity. <shudder>

God is the Judge of the unsaved dead. Christ is the "Bema Seat" Judge of the born again.

All will be judged according to what they have done.

That not true.

It is.

...its going to rot in the ground in an expensive box, or be cremated.

Right, but we will all be resurrected, either to eternal life or to judgment. We will be just as tangible and physical as Jesus was when He was resurrected.

Now, regarding the born again, we get a new body...

No, our body is made new, and will finally be truly redeemed along with our spirit, and the two will be one again, this time for eternity.

No one is predestined to believe...

Right; never said anything like that...

, but all the believers are predestined subsequent to becoming "in Christ"

From before the foundation of the world. Ephesians 1:4-5 is quite impossible to get around, really. Now, our predestination is made manifest, or fulfilled, or brought to fruition, when we are born again, but was decreed before the foundation of the world.

....to be "conformed into the image of Christ".

Regarding our predestination, what we were long, long ago predestined to, yes.

You dont have meet Jesus in the Air, as the NT teaches.

We will go out to meet Him in His return, yes. This is what subjects do when royalty returns.

You are welcome to stay down here, and deal with the Grt Trib. and 2 Thess 1:8-9.

LOL! The time of tribulation will be over then.

Its nice that you are now using that term. "Pauline Theology". Im glad i could lead you to it.

LOL!

And the resurrection where we will become like Jesus, will include getting our resurrection body, same as His.

Yes, tangible, physical, and finally without sin. Made new.

The Spirit man, in the born again is already separated. Spiritual = "circumsied "" Colossians 2:11

Yes, we have spiritual life now as well as physical... And one great day it will all be eternal, rather than just the spiritual in us. <smile>

Grace and peace to you.

 

[PinSeeker]

If yourt trademark slogan "it is what it is" means that God seeks the lost sheep and not the goats or He gathers the wheat He planted and not turning tares to wheat, I agree! that is the word of God.

In a sense, Ronald, we agree.

But there is another sense, the one in which, naturally speaking, we are all tares/goats from the beginning. We have all fallen short of the glory of God.

Grace and peace to you.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

In a sense, Ronald, we agree.

But there is another sense, the one in which, naturally speaking, we are all tares/goats from the beginning. We have all fallen short of the glory of God.

Grace and peace to you.

Yeah, I agree. Taking a break from the soteriology debate and bringing the topic back to the parable of the wheat and tares for a minute, I think we have to be careful about what perspective we use to look at the parable.

We know that plenty of children of the devil, which are defined in 1 John 3:8-10 as being sinners in general, end up being born again and entering the kingdom of God. So, we can't look at the parable from only a real-time perspective since it gives no indication that that tares (children of the devil) can become wheat (children of the kingdom). If we do that, it can cause confusion and can give the impression that the parable contradicts other scripture which says children of the devil can become children of the kingdom. Not only can that be the case, but all children of the kingdom were formerly children of the devil, as 1 John 3:8-10 defines them (lost, unrepentant sinners).

But, looking at the parable from God's eternal perspective of knowing who will end up in the kingdom and who will not, the parable makes more sense and doesn't cause any contradictions. From that perspective, the wheat represent those who are the children of God and will be the children of God at the end of the age who inherit the kingdom of the Father (Matt 13:43) in its fullness regardless of having previously been the children of the devil. Meanwhile, the tares are the children of the devil, regardless of whether or not they were previously children of the kingdom (which, I understand is not possible from the Calvinist perspective, but that's beside the point) and they will all be cast into the fire at the end of the age.

 

[Brakelite]

who acknowledges that they don't accept God's word

You misquote me, attributing to me your personal accusation, and then have the audacity to double down on that without seeing the need to substantiate it. I think you are too young and immature to be discussing theology on a Christian forum. Come back when you grow up.

 

[Behold]

I agree, but it has to be given you first.

Faith is given to every human. "As the measure of Faith", = Paul teaches.

This is why everyone has the capacity to believe. (Faith).

So, deceived Calvinists can't understand why 2 Billion Muslims BELIEVE in Muhammed and the Quran, yet they do, because they are using their God given FAITH to believe in thi9s Satanic Religion.

Tom Cruice believes in Scientology, because He's using his God given "measure of faith" to trust what L. Ron Hubbard wrote.

Ditto a CALVINST, who has FAITH in TULIP, that is a "doctrine of devils'... = Hebrews 13:

Yes, but if God has not given you His assurance of salvation, your faith will be always be in something else,

Christians who are "fallen from GRACE"......are believers who have lost their FAITH in Christ.
THey have "dead faith"..

= They now have FAITH in themselves, to try to stay saved.

So, when you talk to Christian heretics, who believe they have "lost their salvation" or that they CAN lose it.. then you are dealing with a '"fallen from Grace"... person who has no faith in Christ, as otherwise they would BELIEVE that Jesus who saved them, keeps them saved.

Okay, well, I am a Calvinist, sure. In the same vein, you, Behold, are an Arminian,

Im not your "label".
I follow no theology that occurred subsequent to Paul's Letters........and i follow no denomination, and i dont subscribe to any other doctrine other then......."Pauliune Theology".

My "church" is Messianic JEWISH< and we are not a denomination.. We are a Local Assembly filled mostly with born again Jews.
We are completely autonomous, and the bible is our final authority.

Paul said """""be a follower of ME, as i follow Christ"""""......and that is what i personally do.
I follow as my discipleship, = Paul's ministry, lifestyle, and doctrine.

Right, and they will sit in this judgment for eternity. <shudder>
All will be judged according to what they have done.

Chrisitians will never be judged for sin in eternity, because "God hath made Jesus to be sin for us", 2000 yrs ago, on The Cross.

Unbelievers wont be judged for si in eternity, they will be judged for Christ Rejection, which is the unpardonable sin.

John 3:36

Right, but we will all be resurrected, either to eternal life

All the born again have received = "The Gift of Eternal Life".

This is JESUS, as JESUS is Eternal Life.........or as He told you .. "I am THE Resurreciton and THE LIFE". "I have come to give you LIFE"..

And that is why Jesus told you....>"All who believe in me, i give unto them, = ETERNAL LIFE, and you shall never go to Hell (Perish)".

So we see that Jesus who is Eternal life, gives us Eternal life, when we "believe" .........and not after we are dead, as the Christian dies already possessing Eternal LIFE>

This is why John told the born again that = "You can KNOW that you HAVE Eternal life, as this Life is IN God's SON".

Christians are not waiting for this.....they aleady have Eternal lIfe, as Jesus who IS Eternal life is IN all the Born again.

 

[Scott Downey]

Actually, Jesus told you, that "all who believe in me, I give unto you eternal life".

So, that is not God causing you to believe, that is you choosing to believe in Jesus.

Welcome to your Free Will @Scott Downey

Or as Paul told you....>>"ALL who believe in Jesus, shall be saved"........and notice he didnt say......>>"all who God causes, forces, or coerces to believe"... as Lying Calvinists teach about the source of : "faith".

It is also this
John 6
35 And Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life. He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst.

36 But I said to you that you have seen Me and yet do not believe.

37 All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will [f]by no means cast out.

38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me.

39 This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day.

40 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”

************************
And how does God let us use free will, here is how, He teaches us and all who have heard and learned from the Father come to Christ
************************

41 The Jews then [g]complained about Him, because He said, “I am the bread which came down from heaven.” 42 And they said, “Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How is it then that He says, ‘I have come down from heaven’?”

43 Jesus therefore answered and said to them, [h]“Do not murmur among yourselves.

44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.

45 It is written in the prophets, ‘And they shall all be taught by God.’ Therefore everyone who [i]has heard and learned from the Father comes to Me.

46 Not that anyone has seen the Father, except He who is from God; He has seen the Father.

47 Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes [j]in Me has everlasting life. 48 I am the bread of life. 49 Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and are dead. 50 This is the bread which comes down from heaven, that one may eat of it and not die. 51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever; and the bread that I shall give is My flesh, which I shall give for the life of the world.”

 

[Behold]

44 the Father who sent Me draws him;

And How God "Draw" everyone to Christ?

1.) Jesus said......"If i be lifted up, i will DRAW ALL people to me".

2.) "The preaching of the Cross'........ = when we share the Gospel

 

[Scott Downey]

And How God "Draw" everyone to Christ?

1.) Jesus said......"If i be lifted up, i will DRAW ALL people to me".

2.) "The preaching of the Cross'........ = when we share the Gospel

Well of course you cannot be saved unless drawn to Christ.
The unsaved-unbelieving though have this enmity against God and Christ.
And because of that enmity, their carnal minds are not subject to the law of God nor indeed can be.
I have seen such enmity first hand in many unbelieving people.

That is why a man must be born of God, as in 'of God' become spiritually minded to believe in Christ.
That is my POV.


Romans 8
There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who[a] do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be [b]carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

7 Because the [c]carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. 10 And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11 But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies [d]through His Spirit who dwells in you.

 

[Scott Downey]

It is not so simple to just tell someone to believe, and expect someone to believe, yet that is all we can do.
The Spirit of God must do His work in them, only then will they believe.
When God does His work in them, then they are of God, as in God is their Father as they are born of Him in a spiritual sense, will hear and learn from the Father, and they will believe in His Son.
John 8

42 Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I proceeded forth and came from God; nor have I come of Myself, but He sent Me.

43 Why do you not understand My speech? Because you are not able to listen to My word.

44 You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it.

45 But because I tell the truth, you do not believe Me. 46 Which of you convicts Me of sin? And if I tell the truth, why do you not believe Me?

47 He who is of God hears God’s words; therefore you do not hear, because you are not of God.”

 

[Behold]

And because of that enmity, their carnal minds are not subject to the law of God nor indeed can be.

God, the Holy Spirit, does not Draw a person to Christ through their (carnal) mind......so, it does not matter if their mind is "enmity" against God.

God draws a person to Christ in their HEART, where their FAITH exists.

So, anyone can be drawn to God, because "Christ came into the world to save SINNERS".....and everyone is a "sinner" so everyone is pre-qualified for God Eternal "Gift of Salvation.".

John 3:16 defines "sinners" as 'THE WORLD".........And "God so loved the WORLD".......That He gave the "world" "sinners'......= Jesus on The Cross who is able to "save them to the uttermost" which means........for eternity.

 

[Scott Downey]

v

 

[PinSeeker]

Faith is given to every human.

Every human develops some kind of faith in something (or somethings) for all kinds of reasons. But God does not give His assurance to every human.

...everyone has the capacity to believe. (Faith).

How very Arminian... <smile> I mean really... this was his first point:

"Although human nature was seriously affected by the fall, man has not been left in a state of total spiritual helplessness... The lost sinner needs the Spirit's assistance, but he does not have to be regenerated by the Spirit before he can believe, for faith is man's act and precedes the new birth. Faith is the sinner's gift to God; it is man's contribution to salvation."

That's not true, of course.

And faith is not "the capacity to believe." It is... yet again quoting from Hebrews 11:1, "the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen." If this assurance is given by God, then yes, we believe, of our own free will.

a CALVINST, who has FAITH in TULIP...

Absolutely not. Calvinists believe John Calvin to have been right concerning God's Word, as opposed to Jacobus Arminius. Likewise, they would believe Augustine to have been right concerning God's Word, as opposed to Pelagius, over a thousand years earlier. It's purely and solely about the Word of God, really.

, that is a "doctrine of devils'... = Hebrews 13:



Christians who are "fallen from GRACE"....

That would be humans. Heart-regenerate Christians have been redeemed by God because of the sacrifice of the Lord Jesus Christ. And they will not be "unredeemed."

..are believers who have lost their FAITH in Christ.

Which is to say they never had God-given faith ~ His assurance ~ even though they may have thought they had it for a time, and therefore were never believers, even though they may have thought they were for a time. If they are not of us, they will not remain with us.

THey have "dead faith"

A faith that is dead, as James says in chapter 2 of his letter, is a faith that is not accompanied by works.

So, when you talk to Christian heretics, who believe they have "lost their salvation" or that they CAN lose it..

Wait... don't you claim this? That a Christian can fall away and therefore lose their salvation? I mean, per you previous comments I think you do.

then you are dealing with a '"fallen from Grace"... person who has no faith in Christ, as otherwise they would BELIEVE that Jesus who saved them, keeps them saved.

I mean, you seem to be saying ~ in sort of a garbled, discombobulated way ~ what I have been saying, that if they go out from us, then they prove (even to themselves) that they were never of us, which is exactly what John says... Very curious...

I'm not your "label".

Evidenced by what you have said in this... "conversation"... you believe very much along the lines of Pelagius and Arminius, and are heavily influenced by them, whether you know it or not.

the bible is our final authority.

Great! Me, too.

Paul said """""be a follower of ME, as i follow Christ"""""......and that is what i personally do. I follow as my discipleship, = Paul's ministry, lifestyle, and doctrine.

Great! But still... <smile>

Chrisitians will never be judged for sin in eternity...

Of course not. But this is not even remotely what I said; never would I say such a thing.

Unbelievers won't be judged for sin in eternity...

Right, and this is not even remotely what I said either.

All the born again have received = "The Gift of Eternal Life".

Absolutely.

... Jesus told you....>"All who believe in me, i give unto them, = ETERNAL LIFE, and you shall never go to Hell (Perish)".

He told us all that, yes. But even in acknowledging that, yet you still think that even if you have eternal life, you can still go to Hell, because you can fall away. That's... a curious conundrum...

Christians are not waiting for this.....they aleady have Eternal lIfe, as Jesus who IS Eternal life is IN all the Born again.

I mean yeah. Absolutely. But yet you still think... Yeah, a curious conundrum.

Grace and peace to you.

 

[Behold]

Every human develops some kind of faith

Paul teaches that everyone has a "measure of faith".

That describes the God given innate ability to put TRUST into something.

Some place this in Christ and go to Heaven.......some never place their measure of faith in Christ, and thousands of those will go to Hell today......and once there...., they will ALL believe in Hell, and in Christ.

And faith is not "the capacity to believe."

It is according to Paul.
You are welcome to believe whatever you feel, as its your free will.

Absolutely not. Calvinists believe John Calvin to have been right concerning God's Word.

God is not a Calvinist.
Jesus is not a Calvinist.
Paul is not a Calvinist.
The Holy Spirit is not a Calvinst.
The Bible does not teach Calvinism.

You became a Calvinist, because you were led there, by a person or something you read., and God didnt lead you there, as God hates TULIP.

Paul said this about you in Galatians........>"""WHO has BEWITCHED YOU< that you no longer obey the Truth"""".

You can think back on that, and you'll be able to remember who did this to you.

you believe very much along the lines of

A.) Paul's Theology.

 

[Scott Downey]

God, the Holy Spirit, does not Draw a person to Christ through their (carnal) mind......so, it does not matter if their mind is "enmity" against God.

God draws a person to Christ in their HEART, where their FAITH exists.

So, anyone can be drawn to God, because "Christ came into the world to save SINNERS".....and everyone is a "sinner" so everyone is pre-qualified for God Eternal "Gift of Salvation.".

John 3:16 defines "sinners" as 'THE WORLD".........And "God so loved the WORLD".......That He gave the "world" "sinners'......= Jesus on The Cross who is able to "save them to the uttermost" which means........for eternity.

The New Man​

17 This I say, therefore, and testify in the Lord, that you should no longer walk as [f]the rest of the Gentiles walk, in the futility of their mind, 18 having their understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God, because of the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart; 19 who, being past feeling, have given themselves over to lewdness, to work all uncleanness with greediness.

20 But you have not so learned Christ, 21 if indeed you have heard Him and have been taught by Him, as the truth is in Jesus: 22 that you put off, concerning your former conduct, the old man which grows corrupt according to the deceitful lusts, 23 and be renewed in the spirit of your mind, 24 and that you put on the new man which was created according to God, in true righteousness and holiness.

*****************
Notice it says if indeed you have HEARD HIM and been TAUGHT by HIM
Faith come by hearing, and hearing comes by the word of God towards any chosen person.
Faith comes by hearing God speak.

Paul is quoting Jesus here
John 8 about hearing God

45 But because I tell the truth, you do not believe Me. 46 Which of you convicts Me of sin? And if I tell the truth, why do you not believe Me? 47 He who is of God hears God’s words; therefore you do not hear, because you are not of God.”

John 6 about hearing God and learning from God, and this is still real today. Some teach all of this is over.

44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day. 45 It is written in the prophets, ‘And they shall all be taught by God.’ Therefore everyone who [i]has heard and learned from the Father comes to Me

 

[Behold]

Faith comes by hearing God speak.

You posted that faith comes by hearing God speak.

So, that is "I will Draw ALL people to me".....Jesus said.

And so, how does that happen, when a evangelist like me, "Preaches the Cross" to unbelievers ?

A.) God (The Holy Spirit), and ("Christ is THAT Spirit"") ....opens the heart of the unbeliever so that they come to the "Knowledge of the Truth".
Now, that means that they have been given the revelation of the Gospel..."that is the POWER OF GOD..Unto SALVATiON">........so that they understand that the Gospel is TRUE.

Now, will they take a step of Faith, putting their Faith in this Revelation, that is the Gospel, or will they NOT. ?

Welcome to : FREE WILL in action.

That is how it works......as everyone who comes to """the knowledge of the Truth""", by Holy Spirit revelation, is now at that point where they will use their Faith as BELIEF in Christ or they will choose to not believe., or worst of all... they will choose to WAIT, knowing they should believe.

They have now "tasted the heavenly gift"...... and are "enlightned" by the Holy Spirit.

From this point, what they choose to do with their faith, is going to lead to Salvaiton or continue their Damnation.

John 3:36

 

[PinSeeker]

Paul teaches that everyone has a "measure of faith".

He does not. He says, Behold, that every Christian has a measure of faith.

That describes the God given innate ability to put TRUST into something.

Every Christian is give that by God, and thus every Christian has it. And not just "something"...

It is according to Paul.

Paul never says, Behold, exactly what faith is. But the writer of Hebrews ~ who had God's Word breathed into him just as much as Paul did... <smile> ~ does.

You are welcome to believe whatever you feel, as its your free will.

HAHAHA! Yes, thank you. <smile> And the same to you, of course. <smile>

God is not a Calvinist.
Jesus is not a Calvinist.
Paul is not a Calvinist.
The Holy Spirit is not a Calvinst.

Nor are they Arminians. <smile> But again, John Calvin was right about God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit, and Scripture in general. As was Paul, of course, but what he wrote was breathed into him by the Holy Spirit, so... yeah.

The Bible does not teach Calvinism.

John Calvin was right in his expositions of the Bible. As opposed to Jacobus Arminius, who was... wrong. I'm with ya on the labels, though... <smile>

Good day, Behold.