Catholic issues

[Marymog]

See you can not even respond. You think just because your church teaches it is is truth. In spite of all the evidence to the contrary.

You want me to believe Paul spoke of being baptised (in water) in Christ..

If my Church doesn't teach the truth then who does? YOU?

Paul DID speak of being baptized in water in Acts 9. He said he baptized others. Sooooo why do you reject what Scripture says?

Why were you baptized in WATER EG?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

No, you believe what YOU think the Bible says.

Then I guess that is what you do also!

 

[Eternally Grateful]

When you listen to yourself you will never be wrong.

this conversation is getting meaningless..

 

[Eternally Grateful]

If my Church doesn't teach the truth then who does? YOU?

Paul DID speak of being baptized in water in Acts 9. He said he baptized others. Sooooo why do you reject what Scripture says?

Why were you baptized in WATER EG?

who teaches the truth? Whoever teaches scripture. WHOEVER THAT MAY BE

And your arguments are getting to the point they are laughable

1. I am not arguing against water baptism, I have told you this how many times now?
2. I already told you why we are baptized in water.

If you would open your eyes and listen you may actually be able to respond in a sensible way, instead of the programmed response I have witnessed you do for well over a year now

 

[Marymog]

Then I guess that is what you do also!

No, that is not what I do. I DO NOT read the bible and come up with my own truth. I have made it VERY CLEAR over MULTIPLE conversations with you that I do not do that. If you would open your eyes and listen you may actually be able to respond in a sensible way.

 

[Berserk]

Taken: "Natural birth IS one being born out of a water sac.
Jesus simplified it saying; BORN OF WATER."

You ducked my challenge to find a single reference to the ancient use of the phrase "born of water" in that sense.

Jesus said more than simply: BORN OF WATER, Jesus expressly revealed that a MAN had to “ BE BORN OF WATER AND BORN OF the HOLY SPIRIT “ to enter the Kingdom of “GOD”.
What you don't get is Jesus' focus on unique conditions that must be met to enter "the kingdom of God." Since all humans experience childbirth, it does not qualify as such a condition. What establishes my interpretation of baptism is Jesus' insistence on baptism as a condition for salvation: "The one who believes and is baptized will be saved (Mark 16:16)." Similarly, Peter teaches, "Baptism...now saves you (1 Peter 3:21)" and that repentance and baptism are necessary conditions to receive divine forgiveness (Acts 2:38).

 

[Eternally Grateful]

No, that is not what I do. I DO NOT read the bible and come up with my own truth. I have made it VERY CLEAR over MULTIPLE conversations with you that I do not do that. If you would open your eyes and listen you may actually be able to respond in a sensible way.

Your right, You don't

You listen to what you are told to believe. And you take it as gospel truth.

Much like the jews did in their day when a priest told them what to believe

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Taken: "Natural birth IS one being born out of a water sac.
Jesus simplified it saying; BORN OF WATER."

You ducked my challenge to find a single reference to the ancient use of the phrase "born of water" in that sense.

Jesus said more than simply: BORN OF WATER, Jesus expressly revealed that a MAN had to “ BE BORN OF WATER AND BORN OF the HOLY SPIRIT “ to enter the Kingdom of “GOD”.
What you don't get is Jesus' focus on unique conditions that must be met to enter "the kingdom of God." Since all humans experience childbirth, it does not qualify as such a condition. What establishes my interpretation of baptism is Jesus' insistence on baptism as a condition for salvation: "The one who believes and is baptized will be saved (Mark 16:16)." Similarly, Peter teaches, "Baptism...now saves you (1 Peter 3:21)" and that repentance and baptism are necessary conditions to receive divine forgiveness (Acts 2:38).

Its amazing, that Jesus mentions baptism in Mark 16. Yet in the very conversation with Nicodemus in John 3, where he tells him HOW to be born again, he totally forgets to mention the word.

I guess Jesus forgot.

 

[Pearl]

John 1:10-13
The true light that gives light to everyone was coming into the world.
It's a bit of a cliche but you know when you've seen the light.

He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him.
Much of the world still doesn't recognise him - even church-goers, not who he really is and his sacrifice.

He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him.
Many who think they belong to him probably don't because they have not 'received him.

Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God—
This means to invite him into your life. When he stands at the door of your heart and knocks you need to invite him in.

children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.
Parents can't make this decision for the children. They have to make the decision for themselves when they are old enough to fully understand what it means to give one's life to Christ.

 

[Taken]

Taken: "Natural birth IS one being born out of a water sac.
Jesus simplified it saying; BORN OF WATER."

You ducked my challenge to find a single reference to the ancient use of the phrase "born of water" in that sense.

Jesus said more than simply: BORN OF WATER, Jesus expressly revealed that a MAN had to “ BE BORN OF WATER AND BORN OF the HOLY SPIRIT “ to enter the Kingdom of “GOD”.
What you don't get is Jesus' focus on unique conditions that must be met to enter "the kingdom of God." Since all humans experience childbirth, it does not qualify as such a condition. What establishes my interpretation of baptism is Jesus' insistence on baptism as a condition for salvation: "The one who believes and is baptized will be saved (Mark 16:16)." Similarly, Peter teaches, "Baptism...now saves you (1 Peter 3:21)" and that repentance and baptism are necessary conditions to receive divine forgiveness (Acts 2:38).

Your presumption precludes, all humans from conception (sperm fertilization), to conceived (pregnancy), to delivery (exiting the female)....is via WATER.
Which is NOT always the case. Conception can occur, Conceived can occur, and Delivery without Water can occur at early stages.
The pregnancy ceased.
The developing human exits.
A delivery occurred, but a birth via water, did not occur.

Water Baptism does not Save a mans soul.
Water Baptism does not Forgive all of a mans sins.
Water Baptism does not Quicken a mans spirit.
Water Baptism does not Circumcise a mans heart.
Water Baptism does not Cause the Spirit of God to enter a man.
Water Baptism does not KEEP that man Free from Sinning Against God.
Water Baptism “IS” the works of man.

Baptism of the Holy Spirt Forgives all of mans Sins Against God, circumcises a mans heart, saves a mans soul, quickens a mans spirit, AND the Spirit of God enters “IN” that man, and Forever Frees that man from the ability to ever again SIN Against God. Once and Forever that man IS WITH God, and God WITH that man.
Baptism of the Holy Spirit “IS” the works of the Lord God Himself.

* Born of Water......is via mans natural seed.
* Born of God........is via Gods supernatural Seed.
* Both is required to enter the Kingdom God.

 

[Taken]

No, that is not what I do. I DO NOT read the bible and come up with my own truth. I have made it VERY CLEAR over MULTIPLE conversations with you that I do not do that.

Do you believe Mary was sinless? (never having been naturally born in sin, never having committed a sin) ?

If not, Please clarify, by saying that is not your belief.
If so;
Will you clarify clearly, by saying it is your belief Mary was sinless?
Can you direct me to that Scriptural passage that says that ^^^ ?

 

[Marymog]

Your right, You don't

You listen to what you are told to believe. And you take it as gospel truth.

Much like the jews did in their day when a priest told them what to believe

Lol......Hold on EG, just hold on. Your killing me here.....

You tell yourself what to believe based on YOUR interpretation of Scripture and you believe your interpretation of Scripture is the gospel truth. Well, that is until someone else tells you something different or you read the writings from someone else that leads you to believe you were wrong about your previous interpretation and then you change your mind and THEN that new interpretation is the gospel truth, well, that is until you believe you were inspired by the Holy Spirit to change your mind and THEN it's really the gospel truth.

Scripture is rife with references to church leaders and how we are to obey them and how their decision is final and how unstable men twist scripture and how those men our elected etc etc. You reject those passages. I accept those passages and The Church follows them. You reject Scripture. I accept it.

Hebrews 13:17
James 5:14
Acts 14:23
Acts 20:28
1 Timothy 5:17
Titus 1:5-9
Matthew 18:17
2 Peter 3:16

Who do you call to fulfill James 5:14 EG? I have someone to call. Do you?

What church do you go to so that you can fulfil Matthew 18:15-17 EG? I have a church to go to. Do you?

Keeping it real...Mary

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Lol......Hold on EG, just hold on. Your killing me here.....

You tell yourself what to believe based on YOUR interpretation of Scripture and you believe your interpretation of Scripture is the gospel truth. Well, that is until someone else tells you something different or you read the writings from someone else that leads you to believe you were wrong about your previous interpretation and then you change your mind and THEN that new interpretation is the gospel truth, well, that is until you believe you were inspired by the Holy Spirit to change your mind and THEN it's really the gospel truth.

Scripture is rife with references to church leaders and how we are to obey them and how their decision is final and how unstable men twist scripture and how those men our elected etc etc. You reject those passages. I accept those passages and The Church follows them. You reject Scripture. I accept it.

Hebrews 13:17
James 5:14
Acts 14:23
Acts 20:28
1 Timothy 5:17
Titus 1:5-9
Matthew 18:17
2 Peter 3:16

Who do you call to fulfill James 5:14 EG? I have someone to call. Do you?

What church do you go to so that you can fulfil Matthew 18:15-17 EG? I have a church to go to. Do you?

Keeping it real...Mary

Nope. You keep using the same excuses and claiming you know what I am saying, yet you keep failing miserably. You say keeping it real. Yet you DON:T keep it real

I have said multiple times.

When it comes to bible doctrine. to a teaching, to anything I have heard or read.

I do as the Bereans do. And verify with scripture that what the person, people, or church is telling me. I don't just BLINDLY follow people. because they claim to be the church

I have also multiple times used the jews as the example. as they were given the word. they were given the priesthood. they were given the responsibility and power.

Yet if you blindly followed them in the time of Christ, you would be headed to hell because you rejected your messiah.

I don't reject any of those passages. I just take other passages. which tell us how to use scripture to test any church or speaker. to determine if that church or person is speaking on behalf of God or not.

You are free to do whatever you want. As I have said multiple times. when you stand in front of Christ on judgment day, He is not going to judge you based on what church you belonged to or listened to. He will judge you based on what you believed. If you followed a church because they claimed to be a church, and you were wrong. You will nto get a get out of hell free card. because your leaders led you astray.

 

[Marymog]

Nope. You keep using the same excuses and claiming you know what I am saying, yet you keep failing miserably. You say keeping it real. Yet you DON:T keep it real

I have said multiple times.

When it comes to bible doctrine. to a teaching, to anything I have heard or read.

I do as the Bereans do. And verify with scripture that what the person, people, or church is telling me. I don't just BLINDLY follow people. because they claim to be the church

I have also multiple times used the jews as the example. as they were given the word. they were given the priesthood. they were given the responsibility and power.

Yet if you blindly followed them in the time of Christ, you would be headed to hell because you rejected your messiah.

I don't reject any of those passages. I just take other passages. which tell us how to use scripture to test any church or speaker. to determine if that church or person is speaking on behalf of God or not.

You are free to do whatever you want. As I have said multiple times. when you stand in front of Christ on judgment day, He is not going to judge you based on what church you belonged to or listened to. He will judge you based on what you believed. If you followed a church because they claimed to be a church, and you were wrong. You will nto get a get out of hell free card. because your leaders led you astray.

Are you going to at least TRY and answer my question? Or at least tell me you are refusing to answer:

Who do you call to fulfill James 5:14 EG? I have someone to call. Do you?

What church do you go to so that you can fulfil Matthew 18:15-17 EG? I have a church to go to. Do you?

 

[Jim B]

Do you believe Mary was sinless? (never having been naturally born in sin, never having committed a sin) ?

If not, Please clarify, by saying that is not your belief.
If so;
Will you clarify clearly, by saying it is your belief Mary was sinless?
Can you direct me to that Scriptural passage that says that ^^^ ?

There is nothing in Scripture that says that May was sinless. She was chosen by God for a specific task: to deliver Jesus and raise Him until He was a young adult. She fulfilled her duty to God.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Are you going to at least TRY and answer my question? Or at least tell me you are refusing to answer:

Who do you call to fulfill James 5:14 EG? I have someone to call. Do you?

What church do you go to so that you can fulfil Matthew 18:15-17 EG? I have a church to go to. Do you?

I call the elders of my church or whatever church I go to.

But I call people who can be trusted to correctly interpret the word also.

3 This is a faithful saying: If a man desires the position of a bishop, he desires a good work. 2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, temperate, sober-minded, of good behavior, hospitable, able to teach; 3 not given to wine, not violent, not greedy for money, but gentle, not quarrelsome, not covetous; 4 one who rules his own house well, having his children in submission with all reverence 5 (for if a man does not know how to rule his own house, how will he take care of the church of God?); 6 not a novice, lest being puffed up with pride he fall into the same condemnation as the devil. 7 Moreover he must have a good testimony among those who are outside, lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.

8 Likewise deacons must be reverent, not double-tongued, not given to much wine, not greedy for money, 9 holding the mystery of the faith with a pure conscience. 10 But let these also first be tested; then let them serve as deacons, being found blameless. 11 Likewise, their wives must be reverent, not slanderers, temperate, faithful in all things. 12 Let deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well. 13 For those who have served well as deacons obtain for themselves a good standing and great boldness in the faith which is in Christ Jesus.

Here are the qualifications of an elder.

sorry. But I do not see the requirement that they must be part of the roman church.

 

[Taken]

There is nothing in Scripture that says that May was sinless. She was chosen by God for a specific task: to deliver Jesus and raise Him until He was a young adult. She fulfilled her duty to God.

Amen!

 

[Taken]

What church do you go to so that you can fulfil Matthew 18:15-17 EG? I have a church to go to. Do you?

Matt 18:
[15] Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained a brother

Are you a JEW brother (that all Jews are your brothers by race?)
And if your JEW brother trespasses against you, and you settle the matter with him....you have gained a brother....? (Now what kind of brother is this?)


[16] But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.

You go to a Rabbi with two witnesses to lodge your complaint against a brother? (What brother)? Where is this brother you are complaining about?

[17] And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.


Do you do as the Jews or as the heathen and publican? IF a man trespasses against you, damages your vehicle in an auto accident, injuries you....
Really, you take your complaint to your Church?
Or do you take your complaint to the trespassers insurance company....or a lawyer, if he carries no insurance?

And what happens when the Trespasser IS the Priest of your Church? Who do you take your trespassing complaint to?

 

[Marymog]

Matt 18:
[15] Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained a brother

Are you a JEW brother (that all Jews are your brothers by race?)
And if your JEW brother trespasses against you, and you settle the matter with him....you have gained a brother....? (Now what kind of brother is this?)


[16] But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.

You go to a Rabbi with two witnesses to lodge your complaint against a brother? (What brother)? Where is this brother you are complaining about?

[17] And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.


Do you do as the Jews or as the heathen and publican? IF a man trespasses against you, damages your vehicle in an auto accident, injuries you....
Really, you take your complaint to your Church?
Or do you take your complaint to the trespassers insurance company....or a lawyer, if he carries no insurance?

And what happens when the Trespasser IS the Priest of your Church? Who do you take your trespassing complaint to?

What church do you go to so that you can fulfil Matthew 18:15-17 EG? I have a church to go to. Do you?

 

[Marymog]

I call the elders of my church or whatever church I go to.

But I call people who can be trusted to correctly interpret the word also.

Ok...I can name the elder of my church that I can call. I can also give you a name of the church from which he will come from. Can you?

Sooooooo you finally admitted it. You do call MEN you trust to "correctly interpret the word"!!! And you have been criticizing me all this time for listening to men.....