Catholic issues

[amigo de christo]

Similarly you are resting on your belief as to who are apostles today. That is your faith, not mine nor would it be in the faith of most people on this forum. Only God gives the increase, my friend. Thank you for the discussion.

Now ya see why i warn thee faith and all catholics .
Take a peek at the above post . ITS WHAT THEY DO . THEY claim the wafer IS JESUS HIMSELF .
THEY have turned the GLORY of the uncorruptible GOD into corruptible images . made by men .
JESUS AINT The wafer , this is total blasphemy . THEE Faith is in far more grave danger than i think you even realize .
THOUGH I KNOW you dont follow that stuff either . THIS IS WHY I Warn my friend . ITS WHY I WARN .
If i see deadly dangerous error , OUT OF MUCH LOVE I warn the folks . THEY are in dire grave danger .

 

[amadeus]

Now ya see why i warn thee faith and all catholics .
Take a peek at the above post . ITS WHAT THEY DO . THEY claim the wafer IS JESUS HIMSELF .
THEY have turned the GLORY of the uncorruptible GOD into corruptible images . made by men .
JESUS AINT The wafer , this is total blasphemy . THEE Faith is in far more grave danger than i think you even realize .
THOUGH I KNOW you dont follow that stuff either . THIS IS WHY I Warn my friend . ITS WHY I WARN .
If i see deadly dangerous error , OUT OF MUCH LOVE I warn the folks . THEY are in dire grave danger .

Lots of people, I believe, in [and outside of] most all of the church groups are in danger because they have not learned what their first love needs to be and to remain:

"Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.
Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent." Rev 2:4-5

"But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness..." Matt 6:33

 

[Wrangler]

Peter is ... acting in the person of Christ even acting as mediator

There is no need for a mediator to our mediator.

Beyond that, to be more persuasive, try keeping your posts to under 1,000 words, even 100 words.

 

[Wrangler]

where does the Bible say that the Bible is a Christians rule of faith or source of truth?
What is the pillar and ground of truth?

These questions have been thoroughly answered numerous times in other threads.

The pillar and ground of truth certainly is not the monstrosity established in the 11th century that you call the one true Catholic Church.

 

[amigo de christo]

Lots of people, I believe, in [and outside of] most all of the church groups are in danger because they have not learned what their first love needs to be and to remain:

"Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.
Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent." Rev 2:4-5

"But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness..." Matt 6:33

Yes indeed my friend . Its so bad my friend , i cant even find a church to sit in . not in the mainstream anyway .
But there are lambs meeting my friend . So have all hope in GOD .
We got lambs meeting that have nothing to do with the deceptoins that most all churches , whether protestant or catholic have laid upon the masses .Most folks have no idea what first love , first faith was or is all about .
ITS LOVE that loves JESUS , thus HIS TRUTH , above all , and from that IS TRULY able to LOVE your neighbor .
Instead most folks are following a love that omits the things of JESUS for sake of unity and fellowship . THAT AINT THE LOVE
that GOD sheds upon the heart of a lamb . JESUS well said , HE who loves anything more than me is not worthy of ME .
Too many folks can hug , can get along , can do good works , YET they have abandoned THE ORGINAL GOSPLE
the teachings of JESUS . That aint no love GOD sends . SATAN DOES . Cause satan has always wanted the worship .
AND anytime folks dishonor GOD , guess who they honor , SATAN . HE is very wise my friend .
IN JESUS ALONE , FAITH IN HE ALONE , is how we overcome the wiles of the crafty subtile devil , who i miight add
is running most every church now . Times are only gonna get more deceptive . WE must stand on CHRIST
and point to HE ALONE .

 

[amadeus]

There is no need for a mediator to our mediator.

Amen to this!

Beyond that, to be more persuasive, try keeping your posts to under 1,000 words, even 100 words.

Amen also to this. A lengthy post made up primarily of quoted scriptures helps the reader very little in understanding the belief or understanding position of the writer. We can read the Bible ourselves and most people who post here have done so...

 

[amadeus]

Yes indeed my friend . Its so bad my friend , i cant even find a church to sit in . not in the mainstream anyway .
But there are lambs meeting my friend . So have all hope in GOD .
We got lambs meeting that have nothing to do with the deceptoins that most all churches , whether protestant or catholic have laid upon the masses .Most folks have no idea what first love , first faith was or is all about .
ITS LOVE that loves JESUS , thus HIS TRUTH , above all , and from that IS TRULY able to LOVE your neighbor .
Instead most folks are following a love that omits the things of JESUS for sake of unity and fellowship . THAT AINT THE LOVE
that GOD sheds upon the heart of a lamb . JESUS well said , HE who loves anything more than me is not worthy of ME .
Too many folks can hug , can get along , can do good works , YET they have abandoned THE ORGINAL GOSPLE
the teachings of JESUS . That aint no love GOD sends . SATAN DOES . Cause satan has always wanted the worship .
AND anytime folks dishonor GOD , guess who they honor , SATAN . HE is very wise my friend .
IN JESUS ALONE , FAITH IN HE ALONE , is how we overcome the wiles of the crafty subtile devil , who i miight add
is running most every church now . Times are only gonna get more deceptive . WE must stand on CHRIST
and point to HE ALONE .

We need to know Him and to be known of Him...

"Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity." Matt 7:22-23

 

[theefaith]

TRUST in GOD , not men . I love all , but i trust in only GOD . GET IN That bible .
Rome duped you and all generations that sat under her .
What is the easiest way to LORD over a flock . You go ahead and make the bible seem GOOD
yet you add things like , WELL ONLY YOUR SPIRITUAL FATHERS can give you the real understanding .
AKA , SIT UNDER US , WE WILL LEAD YOU . You cant know anything , SAYS THEY , lest you learn from us .
Many leaders do this to their churches . They make the scrips seem hard to understand , they make their flocks
to TRUST IN THEIR EVERY WORD , and they TWIST STUFF . ROME DOES IT , so does her protestant daughters .
MEN who know not God , have always loved the pre emenince . HENCE THEY SET it up . Popes through all ages
have had rings kissed and LORDED it over the flocks . SO does the protestant realm as well .
God , by his merciful grace showed me something so simple a small child can see it .
JUST TRUST IN ME HE SAYS , THE SPIRIT can reveal what IT INSPIRED . AKA we really can learn the bible for ourselves .
BUT beware cause along comes satan , and satan and his CC men and protestant men , SAY YE cant learn the truth
without OUR LEADING YOU . YEAH RIGHT , i say . GOD IS WITH THE LAMBS .
And satan , and His CC and protestant realm , WILL ALWAYS USE THE BAD EXAMPLES TO JUSITFY WHY THEY DO As they do .
In other words they take from bad examples , WHO may have also said the Bible was all they need , YET THEY NEVER FOLLOWED IT
and did bad things . THEN satan comes and says , SEE , no man can learn the bible without ...........................etc , etc .
BUT I SAY , YES WE CAN . FOR GOD IS WITH THE LAMBS .
My pproblem is not with structure , aka deacons , bishops , and so forth , CAUSE that is the true pattern .
ITS with the deacons , elders , leaders , popes , etc etc , CAUSE THEY TEACH LIES and FALSEHOODS .
Something that many who sit under them and take their word as gosple truth , cannot see . FOR as i said , THEIR TRUST IS IN MEN
and that is HOW one gets deceived . FLEE THE RCC FOREVER MY FRIEND , before its too late FOREVER .

Matt 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Vs 18 Christ has “ALL” authority!

Vs 19 Christ endows His apostles with His authority!
Christ sends His apostles to teach “all”!
Christ commands the apostles to baptize those who accept!

Vs 20 Christ commands the apostles to teach the baptized to observe all He has commanded the apostles!

God establishes His authority in men and we must obey them!

God always establishes peace and order in obedience to hierarchical authority of men!

“I DO NOT LISTEN TO MEN”!
“Tradition of men”!

Anti-biblical!
Totally impossible!

Lk 10:16
He who hears you hears me...

John 13:20
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.

 

[theefaith]

SOLID PROOF that you have done what even israel of old did . YE have turned the GLORY OF THE UNCORRUPTIBLE GOD
into an image , or in your case a WAFER . I just PROVED YALLS FALLACY .
YE just said the WAFER IS ACTUALLY JESUS . YET IT AINT MY FRIEND . ITS JUST an object ,
Your church is guilty of what paul himself warned against .
THEY have changed the image of the uncorruptiable GOD into corrupatble images made by men .
I pray to GOD everyone sees this response and runs so fast from the CC and never looks back .

1 cor 11:23 For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, that the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread:

24 And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.

25 After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, this cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.

26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.

27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.

28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.

29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.

30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.

 

[theefaith]

SOLID PROOF that you have done what even israel of old did . YE have turned the GLORY OF THE UNCORRUPTIBLE GOD
into an image , or in your case a WAFER . I just PROVED YALLS FALLACY .
YE just said the WAFER IS ACTUALLY JESUS . YET IT AINT MY FRIEND . ITS JUST an object ,
Your church is guilty of what paul himself warned against .
THEY have changed the image of the uncorruptiable GOD into corrupatble images made by men .
I pray to GOD everyone sees this response and runs so fast from the CC and never looks back .

Jn 6:33 For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.

34 Then said they unto him, Lord, evermore give us this bread.

35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.

36 But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not.

37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

41 The Jews then murmured at him, because he said, I am the bread which came down from heaven.

42 And they said, Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? how is it then that he saith, I came down from heaven?

43 Jesus therefore answered and said unto them, Murmur not among yourselves.

44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.

46 Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.

47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.

48 I am that bread of life.

49 Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness, and are dead.

50 This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die.

51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.

52 The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying, How can this man give us his flesh to eat?

53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.

54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

55 For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.

56 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him.

57 As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me.

58 This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.

 

[theefaith]

There is no need for a mediator to our mediator.

Beyond that, to be more persuasive, try keeping your posts to under 1,000 words, even 100 words.

why does Jesus not rebuke him then?

that’s only seven! Happy?

 

[Wrangler]

why does Jesus not rebuke him then?

Who is it that you think Jesus should rebuke?

that’s only seven! Happy?

Yupper.

 

[theefaith]

These questions have been thoroughly answered numerous times in other threads.

The pillar and ground of truth certainly is not the monstrosity established in the 11th century that you call the one true Catholic Church.

Any actual evidence that is was 11c?
Others say when Leo the great others say Constantine others say who knows

the Bible say 2000 yrs again by Christ on Peter

 

[amigo de christo]

Matt 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Vs 18 Christ has “ALL” authority!

Vs 19 Christ endows His apostles with His authority!
Christ sends His apostles to teach “all”!
Christ commands the apostles to baptize those who accept!

Vs 20 Christ commands the apostles to teach the baptized to observe all He has commanded the apostles!

God establishes His authority in men and we must obey them!

God always establishes peace and order in obedience to hierarchical authority of men!

“I DO NOT LISTEN TO MEN”!
“Tradition of men”!

Anti-biblical!
Totally impossible!

Lk 10:16
He who hears you hears me...

John 13:20
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.

None of those glorious reminders justifies the many things the CC teaches . JESUS IS A WAFER , talk about abomination .
Praying to saints , to mary , to angels , again an abomination .
None of those scriptures point anyone to the CC , truth is the more we read true scripture we would flee such places and very fast too .

 

[Grailhunter]

Something that many who sit under them and take their word as gosple truth , cannot see . FOR as i said , THEIR TRUST IS IN MEN
and that is HOW one gets deceived . FLEE THE RCC FOREVER MY FRIEND , before its too late FOREVER .

Wouldn't it been great if Christ would have returned soon.
As it was, it was Christ's intent to turn the "church" over to men.
"I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven."
Nothing to suggest that church leadership would end with the Apostles and not that the Catholic have a solid lineage to Peter, but I will give them they have the closest thing to it. The Protestant do not have any kind of claim to that. The Protestants did not exist and would not exist for another 1500 years. And the fact is that Christ and the Apostles would have went head to head with protest churches if they did exist.

Not as a protest but interesting that this sort of thing happened during the time of Christ....
Luke 9:49-50 "Master,” said John, “we saw someone driving out demons in your name and we tried to stop him, because he is not one of us. Do not stop him,” Jesus said, “for whoever is not against you is for you.”

There was nothing in the Bible that would suggest that Christ or the Apostles would support 30,000 renditions of the Gospel much less the millions and millions of church of ones. Nothing in the scriptures to suggest that Christ and Apostle were telling people to take the Gospel and form their own personnel religions. The scriptures explain to follow the church leaders.

The churches were united by the Roman Catholic Church. One Church...as it was intended. As according to the scriptures they had the authority to bind. And that was their intent, for one church on earth. Now a days if you talk of one church the Protestants see that as the anti-Christ....which would see Christ's return as the anti-Christ....He would not start 30,000 more denominations.

Now did the Catholics do well with that authority? No. Put the Protestants did not do any better. With all the atrocities and corruption in the Catholic Church, the idea of going back to the Bible....Fundamentalism....was a good and valid idea, but they could not figure it out. They ended up fracturing the church into 30,000 denominations and made it look like there was no clear message in the scriptures that anyone could figure out. They kept reinterpreting the scriptures and redefining Christianity over and over again.

The Protestant churches do not have dogma or Papal Bulls, but the Protestant denominations have statements of faith.

It would have been one thing if the Protest churches could have come to an agreement early on, and faced off against the Catholic church. I agree with Martin Luther's initial intent to reform the Catholic Church.

But now we have a can of worms. Where do Christians go from here? Keep fracturing the Church? Should everyone make up their own religion? Should Christ and the Apostles have said, Hey we are only suggesting things, you guys figure it out because you are smarter than us.

Christians against Christians....I don't think that was what Christ and the Apostles had in mind.

I say that I am multi-denominational....what does that mean? Well it is a misnomer to be honest. I don't sign on to any of the churches I go to. I contribute money and time and I enjoy fellowship and stand with them and praise the Lord with them. I don't think any of them are exactly right. And because I believe that "exactly right" is pipe dream, even in a denomination you cannot control the beliefs in the pews. So I find common ground to stand with other Christians in praise and worship of the Lord. My ministry is to leave seeds of truth, God has to make them grow. Be good and do good....Johnny Appleseed of truth. LOL

But to make a suggestion, as Christians, we have one Christ in common, we should strive to find common ground. And mostly be tolerant of the beliefs of other Christian denominations.

 

[amigo de christo]

Wouldn't it been great if Christ would have returned soon.
As it was, it was Christ's intent to turn the "church" over to men.
"I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven."
Nothing to suggest that church leadership would end with the Apostles and not that the Catholic have a solid lineage to Peter, but I will give them they have the closest thing to it. The Protestant do not have any kind of claim to that. The Protestants did not exist and would not exist for another 1500 years. And the fact is that Christ and the Apostles would have went head to head with protest churches if they did exist.

Not as a protest but interesting that this sort of thing happened during the time of Christ....
Luke 9:49-50 "Master,” said John, “we saw someone driving out demons in your name and we tried to stop him, because he is not one of us. Do not stop him,” Jesus said, “for whoever is not against you is for you.”

There was nothing in the Bible that would suggest that Christ or the Apostles would support 30,000 renditions of the Gospel much less the millions and millions of church of ones. Nothing in the scriptures to suggest that Christ and Apostle were telling people to take the Gospel and form their own personnel religions. The scriptures explain to follow the church leaders.

The churches were united by the Roman Catholic Church. One Church...as it was intended. As according to the scriptures they had the authority to bind. And that was their intent, for one church on earth. Now a days if you talk of one church the Protestants see that as the anti-Christ....which would see Christ's return as the anti-Christ....He would not start 30,000 more denominations.

Now did the Catholics do well with that authority? No. Put the Protestants did not do any better. With all the atrocities and corruption in the Catholic Church, the idea of going back to the Bible....Fundamentalism....was a good and valid idea, but they could not figure it out. They ended up fracturing the church into 30,000 denominations and made it look like there was no clear message in the scriptures that anyone could figure out. They kept reinterpreting the scriptures and redefining Christianity over and over again.

The Protestant churches do not have dogma or Papal Bulls, but the Protestant denominations have statements of faith.

It would have been one thing if the Protest churches could have come to an agreement early on, and faced off against the Catholic church. I agree with Martin Luther's initial intent to reform the Catholic Church.

But now we have a can of worms. Where do Christians go from here? Keep fracturing the Church? Should everyone make up their own religion. Should Christ and the Apostles have said, Hey we are only suggesting things, you guys figure it out because you are smarter than us.

Christians against Christians....I don't think that was what Christ and Apostles had in mind.

I say that I am multi-denominational....what does that mean? Well it is a misnomer to be honest. I don't sign on to any of the churches I go to. I contribute money and time and I enjoy fellowship and stand with them and praise the Lord with them. I don't think any of them are exactly right. And because I believe "exactly right" is pipe dream, even in a denomination you cannot control the beliefs in the pews. So I find common ground to stand with other Christians in praise and worship of the Lord. My ministry is to leave seeds of truth, God has to make them grow. Be good and do good....Johnny Appleseed of truth. LOL

But to make a suggestion, as Christians, we have one Christ in common, we should strive to find common ground. And mostly be tolerant of the beliefs of other denominations.

Most christains aint following JESUS . they follow another jesus . let us all learn what that means .
We dont just sit and hug and forsake truth for sake of fellowship . Seeker friendly destroyed the churches
and led us into this one big UNITY camp. which aint under Jesus but under satan . For many follow another jesus
and none corrects squat .

 

[Grailhunter]

Most christains aint following JESUS . they follow another jesus . let us all learn what that means .
We dont just sit and hug and forsake truth for sake of fellowship . Seeker friendly destroyed the churches
and led us into this one big UNITY camp. which aint under Jesus but under satan . For many follow another jesus
and none corrects squat .

I don't know about all that. The early Christians were seekers. And what is it to be "aint under Jesus but under satan"
So what does it mean to follow another Jesus?

 

[theefaith]

Who is it that you think Jesus should rebuke?



Yupper.

really? You can’t even follow a conversation

you said we don’t need peter as intermediary

Why always the absolute least? Minimalist?

God often provided in super abundance

 

[dev553344]

A forum for anyone with questions about the catholic faith or church!

My issue with the Catholic teaching is the Eucharist. I don't believe it turns into the body and blood of Jesus. I think Jesus was being metaphoric. Otherwise it's kind of cannibalistic.

 

[theefaith]

None of those glorious reminders justifies the many things the CC teaches . JESUS IS A WAFER , talk about abomination .
Praying to saints , to mary , to angels , again an abomination .
None of those scriptures point anyone to the CC , truth is the more we read true scripture we would flee such places and very fast too .

I never said Jesus was a wafer?

In the Catholic Eucharistic celebration, at the words of Consecration when the substance of the bread and wine has been transformed:
using only one word; what do you now call the wafer?

after consecration
After transubstantion
No longer a wafer or bread or wine

but Jesus Christ as He said
Was he lying

“this is my body”