Catholic issues

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theefaith

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My issue with the Catholic teaching is the Eucharist. I don't believe it turns into the body and blood of Jesus. I think Jesus was being metaphoric. Otherwise it's kind of cannibalistic.

no cos cannibalism has to do with eating the dead
Christ not alive but thee life Jn 14:6
Besides it is a commandment

1 cor 11:23 For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, that the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread:

24 And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.

25 After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, this cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.

26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.

27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.

28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.

29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.

30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.
 
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dev553344

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no cos cannibalism has to do with eating the dead
Christ not alive but thee life Jn 14:6
Besides it is a commandment

1 cor 11:23 For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, that the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread:

24 And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.

25 After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, this cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.

26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.

27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.

28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.

29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.

30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.
Yes I know those scriptures and I'm still not seeing how it relates to the actual body and blood of Jesus. It was then and now bread and wine in a literal sense.
 

Grailhunter

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My issue with the Catholic teaching is the Eucharist. I don't believe it turns into the body and blood of Jesus. I think Jesus was being metaphoric. Otherwise it's kind of cannibalistic.

Ok, you are not alone. Christ's own Apostles were taken back! The scriptures say that His disciples no longer walked with Him. He was having a conversation with the Jews and that ended....they probably just walked away. For the Jews this would seem to be Pagan and like you said at least symbolically cannibalistic.

Christ knowing all of this, why would He risk that? Why was it so important to Christ? Why did He tell us to do it.? Why did He say if you did not do it, that you would have no life in you? And we would not abide in Him or Him in us. And then He did it at the last supper and it became a Christian ritual.

Part of knowing a lot, is knowing what you do not know and when it comes to God there are things that we cannot comprehend. That is why it is important to do what Christ and the Apostles said to do....because if you don't, you might find out later what it was all about, but not like the results because you did not obey.

As time went on the Church added some beliefs of the blood and wine turning into His body. Christ did not say that exactly even though He did say, this is my body and this is my blood. He did not say kind of like my body and blood. Whatever was going on only Christ knew and He knew it was important. Important enough to lose His disciples and what if the Apostles walked away? How would of that turned out?
 
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dev553344

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Ok, you are not alone. Christ's own Apostles were taken back! The scriptures say that His disciples no longer walked with Him. He was having a conversation with the Jews and that ended....they probably just walked away. For the Jews this would seem to be Pagan and like you said at least symbolically cannibalistic.

Christ knowing all of this, why would He risk that? Why was it so important to Christ? Why did He tell us to do it.? Why did He say if you did not do it, that you would have no life in you? And we would not abide in Him or Him in us. And then He did it at the last supper and it became a Christian ritual.

Part of knowing a lot, is knowing what you do not know and when it comes to God there are things that we cannot comprehend. That is why it is important to do what Christ and the Apostles said to do....because if you don't, you might find out later what it was all about, but not like the results because you did not obey.

As time went on the Church added some beliefs of the blood and wine turning into His body. Christ did not say that. Whatever was going on only Christ knew and He knew it was important. Important enough to lose His disciples and what if the Apostles walked away? How would of that turned out?
I've taken the Sacrament myself on a few occasions and still take it. But to me it is bread and wine symbolic of Jesus being broken on the Cross for us and I do it in remembrance. I strongly believe that it is the Holy Spirit that gives us life. And when we take the sacrament we get life from the Holy Spirit.
 

amigo de christo

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I don't know about all that. The early Christians were seekers. And what is it to be "aint under Jesus but under satan"
So what does it mean to follow another Jesus?
Exactly what paul meant it . Remember when he wrote the corinthians . If one comes preaching another jesus
many men preach another jesus . Its a jesus that contradicts the teachings OF THE JESUS .
That is what it means to follow another jesus . Be encouraged my friend .
I see many folks that teach another gospel as well . And we know what paul had to say about that .
If even an angel preaches any other gospel ......
yet how come more and more folks are teaching that muslims , buddists , etc etc , worship the same GOD we do
and they too are saved . That dont sound like good news , aka gospel . letting other religions die in their sins
aint good news . It might sound like love , but it is not love , its hate .
Beware cause its filtering into more and more churches . I kid you not . Its the lie from satan himself .
Satan wants all to end up in the lake of fire with him . Its why he has his men preaching this all inclusive social gospel .
what a lie from hell itself . But you would marvel at how many who even profess to be christain now beleive
God is fine with all religions and that we are all serving the same God on different paths .
What a lie that is . SATAN is their so called god of love . Cause any love that lets folks believe a lie and deny JESUS as the only savoir
Now that love comes not from GOD . ITS false love . false sensual love .
 

amigo de christo

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I never said Jesus was a wafer?

In the Catholic Eucharistic celebration, at the words of Consecration when the substance of the bread and wine has been transformed:
using only one word; what do you now call the wafer?

after consecration
After transubstantion
No longer a wafer or bread or wine

but Jesus Christ as He said
Was he lying

“this is my body”
We often do the communion . And i repeat the same words JESUS did .
But i wont and dont sit under the CC . no way . praying to saints , to mary , and who knows what else .
 

Grailhunter

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I've taken the Sacrament myself on a few occasions and still take it. But to me it is bread and wine symbolic of Jesus being broken on the Cross for us and I do it in remembrance. I strongly believe that it is the Holy Spirit that gives us life. And when we take the sacrament we get life from the Holy Spirit.

Again I am going to say, I do not know. Christ used the word "is" When He stood there and said this is my blood and this is my body. He could have said this is symbolically my blood and body. Or consider this to be my blood and body.

And then was the initial event different than what we do in remembrance of Him? It was obviously important to Him, He stood firm.
When His disciples started to walk away, He could have said, Hey guys I am only kidding!
 

Grailhunter

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Exactly what paul meant it . Remember when he wrote the corinthians . If one comes preaching another jesus
many men preach another jesus . Its a jesus that contradicts the teachings OF THE JESUS .
That is what it means to follow another jesus . Be encouraged my friend .
I see many folks that teach another gospel as well . And we know what paul had to say about that .
If even an angel preaches any other gospel ......
yet how come more and more folks are teaching that muslims , buddists , etc etc , worship the same GOD we do
and they too are saved . That dont sound like good news , aka gospel . letting other religions die in their sins
aint good news . It might sound like love , but it is not love , its hate .
Beware cause its filtering into more and more churches . I kid you not . Its the lie from satan himself .
Satan wants all to end up in the lake of fire with him . Its why he has his men preaching this all inclusive social gospel .
what a lie from hell itself . But you would marvel at how many who even profess to be christain now beleive
God is fine with all religions and that we are all serving the same God on different paths .
What a lie that is . SATAN is their so called god of love . Cause any love that lets folks believe a lie and deny JESUS as the only savoir
Now that love comes not from GOD . ITS false love . false sensual love .

Well you know what I think of the social Gospels....LOL And I say we should find common ground so Christianity can stand united.
Put can you find common ground with denominations that support homosexualality and gay marriages. Even the Vatican is wishy washy on this. But when I am talking about the Catholics, I am talking about the Catholics in the pews.

I was in a church years ago and the baptismal was behind the stage so that they would baptize people in front of the congregation.
Well the preacher had his arm around the person that he was going to baptize and made the statement that baptism was a public declaration that a person had chosen Christianity. That it had no spiritual significance. Now if I would have been that person I would have ran. LOL
 
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theefaith

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Yes I know those scriptures and I'm still not seeing how it relates to the actual body and blood of Jesus. It was then and now bread and wine in a literal sense.

Christ is God and the truth
God performs a miracle to remain with us till the end matt 28:19-20
Also he I will not leave you orphan
 
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amigo de christo

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Well you know what I think of the social Gospels....LOL And I say we should find common ground so Christianity can stand united.
Put can you find common ground with denominations that support homosexualality and gay marriages. Even the Vatican is wishy washy on this. But when I am talking about the Catholics, I am talking about the Catholics in the pews.

I was in a church years ago and the baptismal was behind the stage so that they would baptize people in front of the congregation.
Well the preacher had his arm around the person that he was going to baptize and made the statement that baptism was a public declaration that a person had chosen Christianity. That it had no spiritual significance. Now if I would have been that person I would have ran. LOL
They sold out and many more are fast selling out .
As for the lambs , dont expect to be loved is all i can say . This universal welcome all religoin , wont be so tolerant
towards bible beleiving JESUS following true lambs . truth is , its gonna lead to the final climatic event of it all .
They has no idea they following the dragon and He is leading all the world as one right to the beast . the all inclusive tolerant
lovey lovey beast . ONLY it wont be so tolerant to the true lambs who conformed not to its image , to the world , to the we are one world .
 

theefaith

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We often do the communion . And i repeat the same words JESUS did .
But i wont and dont sit under the CC . no way . praying to saints , to mary , and who knows what else .

lk 1:46 And Mary said, My soul doth magnify the Lord,

how is this possible?
 

Cassandra

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When Jesus said "Take and eat", He was still alive. How could that meal he fed be His literal body? It's a symbol. Also, He only had to die once, not over and over. The sacrifice was made , it doesn't need to be repeated

Romans 6:10 "For the death he died he died to sin, ONCE FOR ALL, but the life he lives he lives to God."

Heb 9:26-28 "For then he would have had to suffer repeatedly since the foundation of the world. But as it is, he has appeared ONCE for all at the end of the ages to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself. And just as it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment, so Christ, having been offered ONCE to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time, not to deal with sin but to save those who are eagerly waiting for him.

1 Pete 3:18 "For Christ also suffered ONCE for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit"

Heb 10:12 "But when Christ had offered for all time a SINGLE SACRIFICE for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God,"

He is in a resurrected state, and cannot be the same as He was. The Communion is a symbol, not his actual flesh. He is in a different physical state.
 
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Grailhunter

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When Jesus said "Take and eat", He was still alive. How could that be His literal body?

That is what Christ said....do I need to defend it? No. Did He understand what it meant? Was it His intent to deceive anyone?
This whole process offended everyone around Him. Why was it important to Him? Why did He tell us to do it in remembrance of Him?

Why did Paul warn people....Everyone ought to examine themselves before they eat of the bread and drink from the cup. For those who eat and drink without discerning the body of Christ eat and drink judgment on themselves. That is why many among you are weak and sick, and a number of you have fallen asleep. 1st Corinthians 11:28-30

Why did Christ say.... 53 “Very truly I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. 54 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day. 55 For my flesh is real food and my blood is real. 56 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in them. John Chapter 6

Do you know? Can symbiology cause you to die?

There are people that think baptism is all for show and that communion is all for show. Of course the Catholics and Martin Luther did not think it was all for show. You have to move into the age of cessationism and social beliefs before you find beliefs that there are no miracles or spiritual significances.
 

theefaith

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Heb 8:5 Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount.

Heb 9:1 Then verily the first covenant had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary.

So does the new covenant

Heb 9:23 It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.

Heb 10:1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.

Romans 5:11
And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.

1 Jn 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Jn 1:29 behold the lamb of God


Psalm 110:4
The Lord hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek.

an oath is a sacrament and only priests administer sacraments
Jesus is high priest according to Melchizedek therefore there must be low priests of the same ministering order!

Hebrews 8:6
But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

A Promise is a sacred oath or sacrament!

Malachi 1:11
For from the rising of the sun even unto the going down of the same my name shall be great among the Gentiles; and in every place incense shall be offered unto my name, and a pure offering: for my name shall be great among the heathen, saith the Lord of hosts.

Luke 22:19
And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me.

1 Corinthians 11:25
After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, this cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.

Hebrews 10:10
By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

The Bread and Wine sacrificed at the Last Supper is one and the same sacrifice as the Crucifixion. The Mass is a re-presentation, not a repetition. The Mass is a fulfilment of the seder meal. In heaven, Jesus offers HIMSELF to the Father (in the form of bread and wine) on our behalf, not symbols.

Heb. 9:23 – in this verse, the author writes that the Old Testament sacrifices were only copies of the heavenly things, but now heaven has better “sacrifices” than these. Why is the heavenly sacrifice called “sacrifices,” in the plural? Jesus died once. This is because, while Christ’s sacrifice is transcendent in heaven, it touches down on earth and is sacramentally re-presented over and over again from the rising of the sun to its setting around the world by the priests of Christ’s Church. This is because all moments to God are present in their immediacy, and when we offer the memorial sacrifice to God, we ask God to make the sacrifice that is eternally present to Him also present to us. Jesus’ sacrifice also transcends time and space because it was the sacrifice of God Himself.

Heb. 9:23 – the Eucharistic sacrifice also fulfills Jer. 33:18 that His kingdom will consist of a sacrificial priesthood forever, and fulfills Zech. 9:15 that the sons of Zion shall drink blood like wine and be saved.

Heb. 9:26 – Jesus’ once and for all appearance into heaven to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself shows that Jesus’ presence in heaven and His sacrifice are inseparable. This also shows that “once for all,” which refers to Jesus’ appearance in heaven, means perpetual (it does not, and cannot mean, “over and done with” because Jesus is in heaven for eternity). “Once for all” also refers to Jesus’ suffering and death (Heb. 7:27; 9:12,26;10:10-14). But “once for all” never refers to Jesus’ sacrifice, which is eternally presented to the Father. This sacrifice is the Mal. 1:11 pure offering made present in every place from the rising of the sun to its setting in the Eucharist offered in the same manner as the Melchizedek offering.

once for all
Once bloody on the cross but for all an unbloody sacrifice a clean obligation may 1:11

Christ is still portrayed in rev 5:6 as a lamb slain

The holy sacrifice of the mass is an unbloody sacrifice! Mal 1:11

He does not suffer, bleed and die over and over!

And there is only one propitiatory sacrifice of Christ!

The sacrifice of Christ offered once for all!
Once by Christ on the cross bloody and suffering death, and for all times His sacrifice and merits are offered to the father obtaining grace and mercy and His body and blood to unite His church with th Him in the communion church f the saints!
 

JohnPaul

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TRUST in GOD , not men . I love all , but i trust in only GOD . GET IN That bible .
Rome duped you and all generations that sat under her .
What is the easiest way to LORD over a flock . You go ahead and make the bible seem GOOD
yet you add things like , WELL ONLY YOUR SPIRITUAL FATHERS can give you the real understanding .
AKA , SIT UNDER US , WE WILL LEAD YOU . You cant know anything , SAYS THEY , lest you learn from us .
Many leaders do this to their churches . They make the scrips seem hard to understand , they make their flocks
to TRUST IN THEIR EVERY WORD , and they TWIST STUFF . ROME DOES IT , so does her protestant daughters .
MEN who know not God , have always loved the pre emenince . HENCE THEY SET it up . Popes through all ages
have had rings kissed and LORDED it over the flocks . SO does the protestant realm as well .
God , by his merciful grace showed me something so simple a small child can see it .
JUST TRUST IN ME HE SAYS , THE SPIRIT can reveal what IT INSPIRED . AKA we really can learn the bible for ourselves .
BUT beware cause along comes satan , and satan and his CC men and protestant men , SAY YE cant learn the truth
without OUR LEADING YOU . YEAH RIGHT , i say . GOD IS WITH THE LAMBS .
And satan , and His CC and protestant realm , WILL ALWAYS USE THE BAD EXAMPLES TO JUSITFY WHY THEY DO As they do .
In other words they take from bad examples , WHO may have also said the Bible was all they need , YET THEY NEVER FOLLOWED IT
and did bad things . THEN satan comes and says , SEE , no man can learn the bible without ...........................etc , etc .
BUT I SAY , YES WE CAN . FOR GOD IS WITH THE LAMBS .
My pproblem is not with structure , aka deacons , bishops , and so forth , CAUSE that is the true pattern .
ITS with the deacons , elders , leaders , popes , etc etc , CAUSE THEY TEACH LIES and FALSEHOODS .
Something that many who sit under them and take their word as gosple truth , cannot see . FOR as i said , THEIR TRUST IS IN MEN
and that is HOW one gets deceived . FLEE THE RCC FOREVER MY FRIEND , before its too late FOREVER .
Beautiful words amigo.
 
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JohnPaul

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Pope Francis is a joke he’s trying to bring homosexuality into the Catholic church because they’re losing money by not accepting it, it why Pope Benedict stepped down because he couldn’t and wouldn’t do it, so he was made to step down and they put this Jesuit priest as Pope to pave the way for the acceptance of homosexuality, if you can’t see that then you are truly blind.
 
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Cassandra

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That is what Christ said....do I need to defend it? No. Did He understand what it meant? Was it His intent to deceive anyone?
This whole process offended everyone around Him. Why was it important to Him? Why did He tell us to do it in remembrance of Him?

Why did Paul warn people....Everyone ought to examine themselves before they eat of the bread and drink from the cup. For those who eat and drink without discerning the body of Christ eat and drink judgment on themselves. That is why many among you are weak and sick, and a number of you have fallen asleep. 1st Corinthians 11:28-30

Why did Christ say.... 53 “Very truly I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. 54 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day. 55 For my flesh is real food and my blood is real. 56 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in them. John Chapter 6

Do you know? Can symbiology cause you to die?

There are people that think baptism is all for show and that communion is all for show. Of course the Catholics and Martin Luther did not think it was all for show. You have to move into the age of cessationism and social beliefs before you find beliefs that there are no miracles or spiritual significances.
I am not clear what you are saying. Do you not believe that the bread and wine are symbols?