Christians are not under the New Covenant

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theefaith

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Then what covenant are we under?

there can be no salvation apart from a covenant?

the church is the ark of salvation
the new covenant
The kingdom of god on earth
The household of faith

1 Tim 3:15

St. Paul tells the faithful at Ephesus that they have been “sealed with the promised Holy Spirit.” This is in terms of an indelible character imprinted on the soul in the sacraments of baptism and confirmation. It is not as if this invisible mark is simply decorative. Rather, through it, we are enabled to participate in Christ’s mission and in his offices of priest, prophet, and king. Eph 1:13

Sealed by God eph 1:13 sealed by God (ez 36:25-27) in the ark of salvation by baptism just as Noah was sealed by God in the ark of the flood gen 7:16

1 Pet 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
(Ark of Noah a type of the church, member of Christ and his church and salvation by baptism!)
(Outside the ark of Noah none were saved, outside the church (the ark of salvation) none are saved!)
 
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theefaith

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Actually, Jesus is.

Right pal good point!

but the church is an extension of Christ

Christ and His church are one! Acts 9:4

Saul was persecuting the church, and Christ said “why persecute me”? Acts 9:4

Rebellion and rejection of the church or apostles or council or teaching of church or apostles or council is rebellion and rejection of Christ!

Christ and his church are one! Acts 9:4 eph 5:32

The church and the apostles exist by his commands and authority! Matt 16:18-19 & 18:18 Jn 20:21-23

An attack on the church is an attack on Christ!

There is an unbreakable union between Christ and His Holy Church!

Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Lk 10:16 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20

Eph 5:32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

Gates of hell shall NOT PREVAIL!

There is only one true church founded by Christ on Peter and the apostles and their successors, it is the new covenant body of Christ! Matt 16:18 One fold
Jn 10:16 the household of faith! Gal 6:10

1 Timothy 3:15
But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

Christ and His church are one, what Christ did the church continues to do, the church is an extension of Christ!
To attack the church is to attack Christ!
Acts 9:4 Jn 20:21-23


Eph 5: 23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.

24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.

25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,

27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.

28 So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself.

29 For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church:

30 For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.

31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.

32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

What authority does Christ have?
What power does Christ have?
What mission / ministry does Christ have?

Peter, the apostles and their successors have the same authority, power, and mission! Jn 20:21 as my father sent me, even so send I you!

Lk 10:16
He who hears you hears me...

John 13:20
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.

Jn 20:21 as my father sent me, so send in you. (The apostles) posses the same power mission and authority as Christ!
Peter, the apostles and their successors!

Keys of authority! And power to bind and loose! Matt 16:18 and Matt 18:18
matt 28:19 Jn 20:21-23 Isa 22:21-22
eph 2:20

Ephesians 5:24
Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ...

There is only one true church founded by Christ on Peter and the apostles and their successors, it is the new covenant body of Christ! Matt 16:18 One fold
Jn 10:16 the household of faith! Gal 6:10

The church is the ark of salvation, to attack the church is to attack salvation!

St. Paul tells the faithful at Ephesus that they have been “sealed with the promised Holy Spirit.” This is in terms of an indelible character imprinted on the soul in the sacraments of baptism and confirmation. It is not as if this invisible mark is simply decorative. Rather, through it, we are enabled to participate in Christ’s mission and in his offices of priest, prophet, and king. Eph 1:13

Sealed by God eph 1:13 sealed by God (ez 36:25-27) in the ark of salvation by baptism just as Noah was sealed by God in the ark of the flood gen 7:16

1 Pet 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
(Ark of Noah a type of the church, member of Christ and his church and salvation by baptism!)
(Outside the ark of Noah none were saved, outside the church (the ark of salvation) none are saved!)
 
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theefaith

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You need help!

The Magisterium (or Teaching Authority) of the Church to be Perpetual

8. We are mindful only of what is witnessed to by Holy Writ and what is otherwise well known. Christ proves His own divinity and the divine origin of His mission by miracles; He teaches the multitudes heavenly doctrine by word of mouth; and He absolutely commands that the assent of faith should be given to His teaching, promising eternal rewards to those who believe and eternal punishment to those who do not. "If I do not the works of my Father, believe Me not" (John x., 37). "If I had not done among them the works than no other man had done, they would not have sin" (Ibid. xv., 24). "But if I do (the works) though you will not believe Me, believe the works" (Ibid. x., 38). Whatsoever He commands, He commands by the same authority. He requires the assent of the mind to all truths without exception. It was thus the duty of all who heard Jesus Christ, if they wished for eternal salvation, not merely to accept His doctrine as a whole, but to assent with their entire mind to all and every point of it, since it is unlawful to withhold faith from God even in regard to one single point.

When about to ascend into heaven He sends His Apostles in virtue of the same power by which He had been sent from the Father; and he charges them to spread abroad and propagate His teaching. "All power is given to Me in Heaven and in earth. Going therefore teach all nations....teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you" (Matt. xxviii., 18-19-20). So that those obeying the Apostles might be saved, and those disobeying should perish. "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved, but he that believed not shall be condemned" (Mark xvi., 16). But since it is obviously most in harmony with God's providence that no one should have confided to him a great and important mission unless he were furnished with the means of properly carrying it out, for this reason Christ promised that He would send the Spirit of Truth to His Disciples to remain with them for ever. "But if I go I will send Him (the Paraclete) to you....But when He, the Spirit of Truth is come, He will teach you all truth" (John xvi., 7-13). "And I will ask the Father, and He shall give you another Paraclete, that he may abide with you for ever, the Spirit of 'Truth" (Ibid. xiv., 16-17). "He shall give testimony of Me, and you shall give testimony" (Ibid. xv., 26-27). Hence He commands that the teaching of the Apostles should be religiously accepted and piously kept as if it were His own - "He who hears you hears Me, he who despises you despises Me" (Luke x., 16). Wherefore the Apostles are ambassadors of Christ as He is the ambassador of the Father. "As the Father sent Me so also I send you" (John xx., 21). Hence as the Apostles and Disciples were bound to obey Christ, so also those whom the Apostles taught were, by God's command, bound to obey them. And, therefore, it was no more allowable to repudiate one iota of the Apostles' teaching than it was to reject any point of the doctrine of Christ Himself.

Truly the voice of the Apostles, when the Holy Ghost had come down upon them, resounded throughout the world. Wherever they went they proclaimed themselves the ambassadors of Christ Himself. "By whom (Jesus Christ) we have received grace and Apostleship for obedience to the faith in all nations for His name" (Rom. i., 5). And God makes known their divine mission by numerous miracles. "But they going forth preached everywhere: the Lord working withal, and confirming the word with signs that followed" (Mark xvi., 20). But what is this word? That which comprehends all things, that which they had learnt from their Master; because they openly and publicly declare that they cannot help speaking of what they had seen and heard.

But, as we have already said, the Apostolic mission was not destined to die with the Apostles themselves, or to come to an end in the course of time, since it was intended for the people at large and instituted for the salvation of the human race. For Christ commanded His Apostles to preach the "Gospel to every creature, to carry His name to nations and kings, and to be witnesses to him to the ends of the earth." He further promised to assist them in the fulfilment of their high mission, and that, not for a few years or centuries only, but for all time - "even to the consummation of the world." Upon which St. Jerome says: "He who promises to remain with His Disciples to the end of the world declares that they will be for ever victorious, and that He will never depart from those who believe in Him" (In Matt., lib. iv., cap. 28, v. 20). But how could all this be realized in the Apostles alone, placed as they were under the universal law of dissolution by death? It was consequently provided by God that the Magisterium instituted by Jesus Christ should not end with the life of the Apostles, but that it should be perpetuated. We see it in truth propagated, and, as it were, delivered from hand to hand. For the Apostles consecrated bishops, and each one appointed those who were to succeed them immediately "in the ministry of the word."

Nay more: they likewise required their successors to choose fitting men, to endow them with like authority, and to confide to them the office and mission of teaching. "Thou, therefore, my son, be strong in the grace which is in Christ Jesus: and the things which thou bast heard of me by many witnesses, the same command to faithful men, who shall be fit to teach others also" (2 Tim. ii., I-2). Wherefore, as Christ was sent by God and the Apostles by Christ, so the Bishops and those who succeeded them were sent by the Apostles. "The Apostles were appointed by Christ to preach the Gospel to us. Jesus Christ was sent by God. Christ is therefore from God, and the Apostles from Christ, and both according to the will of God....Preaching therefore the word through the countries and cities, when they had proved in the Spirit the first-fruits of their teaching they appointed bishops and deacons for the faithful....They appointed them and then ordained them, so that when they themselves had passed away other tried men should carry on their ministry" (S. Clemens Rom. Epist. I ad Corinth. capp. 42, 44). On the one hand, therefore, it is necessary that the mission of teaching whatever Christ had taught should remain perpetual and immutable, and on the other that the duty of accepting and professing all their doctrine should likewise be perpetual and immutable. "Our Lord Jesus Christ, when in His Gospel He testifies that those who not are with Him are His enemies, does not designate any special form of heresy, but declares that all heretics who are not with Him and do not gather with Him, scatter His flock and are His adversaries: He that is not with Me is against Me, and he that gathereth not with Me scattereth" (S. Cyprianus, Ep. lxix., ad Magnum, n. I).
 

keithr

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Baptism is required to be Christian
So why have you not been baptised? You said in I have a question that remains unanswered: that you had been Christened in a font at 16 days old. Sprinkling of some water onto a baby's head, and giving the baby a name, is not baptism. Baptism is complete immersion into water (the word means to immerse or submerge), symbolising being buried in death, and it is a declaration of the person's faith in Jesus. A baby cannot have knowledge of and faith in Jesus. Romans 6:3-4 (WEB):

Or don’t you know that all we who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? (4) We were buried therefore with him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we also might walk in newness of life.​
 

Moriah's Song

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31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
Ronald, you are quoting an OT Jeremiah prophesy that was to happen in the future. That prophesy has already been fulfilled through the blood of the cross. These verses speak for themselves. Please take note of the present tenses in these verses - especially the word "is" because that means that the New Covenant IS a now covenant - not a future one for any millennium.

Mat 26:27-28...And he took a cup, and when he had given thanks he gave it to them, saying, "Drink of it, all of you; for this is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.

Mar 14:24 - And he said to them, "This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many.

Luk 22:20...And likewise the cup after supper, saying, "This cup which is poured out for you is the new covenant in my blood.

1Co 10:16...The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not a participation in the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not a participation in the body of Christ?

1Co 11:25-26...In the same way also the cup, after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me." For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord's death until he comes.

2Co 3:6...[God] has made us competent to be ministers of a new covenant, not in a written code but in the Spirit; for the written code kills, but the Spirit gives life.

2Co 3:14...But their minds were hardened; for to this day, when they read the old covenant, that same veil remains unlifted, because only through Christ is it taken away.

Heb 7:22...This makes Jesus the surety of a better covenant.

Heb 8:6-10,13...But as it is, Christ has obtained a ministry which is as much more excellent than the old as the covenant he mediates is better, since it is enacted on better promises. For if that first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion for a second. For he finds fault with them when he says: "The days will come, says the Lord, when I will establish a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah; not like the covenant that I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; for they did not continue in my covenant, and so I paid no heed to them, says the Lord. This is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put my laws into their minds, and write them on their hearts, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.... In speaking of a new covenant he treats the first as obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

Heb 9:15...Therefore he is the mediator of a new covenant, so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, since a death has occurred which redeems them from the transgressions under the first covenant.

Heb 9:18-24...Hence even the first covenant was not ratified without blood. For when every commandment of the law had been declared by Moses to all the people, he took the blood of calves and goats, with water and scarlet wool and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book itself and all the people, saying, "This is the blood of the covenant which God commanded you." And in the same way he sprinkled with the blood both the tent and all the vessels used in worship. Indeed, under the law almost everything is purified with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sins. Thus it was necessary for the copies of the heavenly things to be purified with these rites, but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these. For Christ has entered, not into a sanctuary made with hands, a copy of the true one, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God on our behalf.

Heb 9:27-28...And just as it is appointed for men to die once, and after that comes judgment, so Christ, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time, not to deal with sin but to save those who are eagerly waiting for him.
 
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Ronald Nolette

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He requires the assent of the mind to all truths without exception. It was thus the duty of all who heard Jesus Christ, if they wished for eternal salvation, not merely to accept His doctrine as a whole, but to assent with their entire mind to all and every point of it, since it is unlawful to withhold faith from God even in regard to one single point.

This is a tremendous lie! This is another gospel. One only needs to recieve and trust int eh death and resurrection of Jesus to be saved- all other truths will spring from that if they are not in a heretical church.

and on the other that the duty of accepting and professing all their doctrine should likewise be perpetual and immutable.

We accept mens teachings only when they align with gods Word. If it varies from Gods Word- we must resist it no matter who teaches it.
 

Ronald Nolette

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Ronald, you are quoting an OT Jeremiah prophesy that was to happen in the future. That prophesy has already been fulfilled through the blood of the cross. These verses speak for themselves. Please take note of the present tenses in these verses - especially the word "is" because that means that the New Covenant IS a now covenant - not a future one for any millennium.

Mat 26:27-28...And he took a cup, and when he had given thanks he gave it to them, saying, "Drink of it, all of you; for this is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.

Mar 14:24 - And he said to them, "This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many.

Luk 22:20...And likewise the cup after supper, saying, "This cup which is poured out for you is the new covenant in my blood.

1Co 10:16...The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not a participation in the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not a participation in the body of Christ?

1Co 11:25-26...In the same way also the cup, after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me." For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord's death until he comes.

2Co 3:6...[God] has made us competent to be ministers of a new covenant, not in a written code but in the Spirit; for the written code kills, but the Spirit gives life.

2Co 3:14...But their minds were hardened; for to this day, when they read the old covenant, that same veil remains unlifted, because only through Christ is it taken away.

Heb 7:22...This makes Jesus the surety of a better covenant.

Heb 8:6-10,13...But as it is, Christ has obtained a ministry which is as much more excellent than the old as the covenant he mediates is better, since it is enacted on better promises. For if that first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion for a second. For he finds fault with them when he says: "The days will come, says the Lord, when I will establish a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah; not like the covenant that I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; for they did not continue in my covenant, and so I paid no heed to them, says the Lord. This is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put my laws into their minds, and write them on their hearts, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.... In speaking of a new covenant he treats the first as obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

Heb 9:15...Therefore he is the mediator of a new covenant, so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, since a death has occurred which redeems them from the transgressions under the first covenant.

Heb 9:18-24...Hence even the first covenant was not ratified without blood. For when every commandment of the law had been declared by Moses to all the people, he took the blood of calves and goats, with water and scarlet wool and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book itself and all the people, saying, "This is the blood of the covenant which God commanded you." And in the same way he sprinkled with the blood both the tent and all the vessels used in worship. Indeed, under the law almost everything is purified with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sins. Thus it was necessary for the copies of the heavenly things to be purified with these rites, but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these. For Christ has entered, not into a sanctuary made with hands, a copy of the true one, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God on our behalf.

Heb 9:27-28...And just as it is appointed for men to die once, and after that comes judgment, so Christ, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time, not to deal with sin but to save those who are eagerly waiting for him.


Once again you fail to understand that the blood Jesus shed is the price that insures the New covenant.

YOu do not understand the meanings of Surety and mediator. Both of these show that the (in this case) the covenant has yet to be ratified.

But with all these verses I ask you the same I ask of all others who howl at me saying I am wrong or a heretic etc. Below is posted the Scriptural text of the whole new Covenant. Please show when these went into effect in their parts and where are gentiles even mentioned.

Jeremiah 31:31-34
King James Version

31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.



IF the new covenant ( as god inspired it to be written) then the Israelis in the house of Judah and Israel (that includes all 12 tribes) is in effect, then all Jews are saved for the new covenant definitively says God will remember their sin no more! It also says that every Jew will know the Lord from th eleast to the greatest!

It also says that for every jew, God will write His law in their heart and they will be His people again!

DO YOU BELIEVE ALL THESE ARE IN EFFECT? IF SO WHEN DID IT GO INTO EFFECT? WHEN IS "AFTER THOSE DAYS" IN VERSE 33?
 

Truman

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I was sprinkled as a child by the United Church, as a teen, I was fully-immersed by Pentecostals, in my 30s, I joined the Christian Reformed Church, later I served with the Vineyard movement, which is where the Lord spoke to me and said, 3 times, in 3 identical situations, 3 weeks apart from each other, these words: "You are a Levite." For 23 years, it made no sense. (see 2 Kings 17)
Then He led me to watch a video that started in northern Israel, 2,730 years ago. It ended in Normandy, during the 1500s. I thought, "That's as far back as my parent's family tree goes." I instantly felt full of the Holy Spirit, His peace and assurance that I was hearing and understanding Him correctly. I exclaimed, "I'm a Hebrew?" I was stunned!
I'm starting to meet people like me online. There are many more among us...they just don't know it yet!
Ten tribes of Israel wandering homeless,
Wandering endlessly throughout the earth.
Forgotten by all, their name was worthless.
Wandering endlessly throughout the earth.
When is the time for them to return?
Of their inheritance, they must learn.
Ephra'im and Judah are not the same,
Until the Lord reunites us again! -tc
c91fb26ec4549dfb1dbe103da4560003--the-two-the-ojays.jpg
 

Truman

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Ephra'im, you're in a dream, things aren't like they seem, you're not who you think, wake up, Epha'im!
 

Moriah's Song

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Once again you fail to understand that the blood Jesus shed is the price that insures the New covenant.
I assume by that you meant to say "...that the blood Jesus shed is the price that insures the New Covenant...will be enacted in the future." Is that correct? If not it seems to contradict what follows....
Both of these show that the (in this case) the covenant has yet to be ratified.
YOu do not understand the meanings of Surety and mediator.
Actually I do understand it. I visualize it like the form of our Christian cross....A pole in the middle with two arm outstretched. Christ is in the middle, while the one arm on the left represents the old covenant and the arm on the right represents the New Covenant...at that cross.

However if the writer to the Hebrews says, “Jesus has obtained a ministry that is as much superior as the covenant that he mediates is better, because it has been established on the basis of better promises” then I take it seriously. The first covenant that the writer hints at in that verse is the covenant God made with the people of Israel at Mount Sinai. What is important in this verse is that....
a. Jesus has already obtained a higher ministry that is much superior...
b. Jesus' is mediator between that Mosaic covenant and the New Covenant where his blood was shed as a seal and fulfillment of that OT Jeremiah prophesy.
c. It has been established - not will be established ever again. It's a once-and- an everlasting-eternal-covenant.
d. It has better promises than the Mosaic covenant.
Clearly there is a stumbling block to the reality of these verses as well as the words of Jesus that were spoken to his disciples concerning the New Covenant on the eve of his being the Passover sacrifice. Is there a reason that I am missing that prevents taking those many verses in my above post seriously?
 
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Ronald Nolette

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I assume by that you meant to say "...that the blood Jesus shed is the price that insures the New Covenant...will be enacted in the future." Is that correct? If not it seems to contradict what follows....

Yes the price has been paid and the provisions which are not in effect now will be in effect at some point in the future.


Actually I do understand it. I visualize it like the form of our Christian cross....A pole in the middle with two arm outstretched. Christ is in the middle, while the one arm on the left represents the old covenant and the arm on the right represents the New Covenant...at that cross.

However if the writer to the Hebrews says, “Jesus has obtained a ministry that is as much superior as the covenant that he mediates is better, because it has been established on the basis of better promises” then I take it seriously. The first covenant that the writer hints at in that verse is the covenant God made with the people of Israel at Mount Sinai. What is important in this verse is that....
a. Jesus has already obtained a higher ministry that is much superior...
b. Jesus' is mediator between that Mosaic covenant and the New Covenant where his blood was shed as a seal and fulfillment of that OT Jeremiah prophesy.
c. It has been established - not will be established ever again. It's a once-and- an everlasting-eternal-covenant.
d. It has better promises than the Mosaic covenant.

Based on this- actually you don't! They are not mystical magical terms. they are simple legal terms that carried over in their definition to our day!

Jesus is not mediating between teh old and new covenants. Jesus fulfilled and thus rendered the old covenant paid in full and rendered void as Paul often declared.

Surety is a bond. Like when a criminal posts bond to not go to jail that is a surety- it is a price paid to prove legitimacy.

Medisating is done by a mediator between two parties to come to terms on an agreement. The agreement is the new covenant in Jesus blood and the parties are God and Israel. god will not change th eprovisions of the covenant so it is being bargained if you will until the nation of Israel as a nation accepts the New Covenant! And they will for it is prophesied!

Now I am off for a week to give my wife a well earned vacation.
 

amigo de christo

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San angelo
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DID WE READ the TITLE OF THIS POST . Who on earth said that line .
The christain ............IS THE ONLY ONE UNDER THE NEW COVENANT .
Which includes both beleiving jews and gentiles .
All else , including all jews and gentiles are under the death sentence .
JESUS MUST BE BELIEVED IN .
 

Moriah's Song

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Murphy
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Yes the price has been paid and the provisions which are not in effect now will be in effect at some point in the future.
....And when "at some point in the future" do you mean?
They are not mystical magical terms.
I never said they were.
Jesus fulfilled and thus rendered the old covenant paid in full and rendered void
So your position is that the Old Covenant is now void and no longer in effect?
god will not change the provisions of the covenant so it is being bargained if you will until the nation of Israel as a nation accepts the New Covenant!
Who are the "bargainers" of what covenant?

If the Old Covenant is void and no longer in effect and the New Covenant is waiting for the nation of Israel to accept it, what happens to the New Covenant if they never accept it? I don't think the nation of Israel even tolerates Christians in Israel to witness to a Jew let alone read our NT to even consider our doctrine of the New Covenant.

More important is the question that "if the old is void and the new is waiting in limbo for the nation of Israel" then what are we presently under if you deny those verses in Hebrews and other reference to the New Covenant in the NT?

Israel's plans at the present are preparing for a new temple to be built in Jerusalem and to re-instate the old sacrificial system so it does not seem as though the nation of Israel ever intends to accept anything the Christian community offers.
 
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