Christ's Coming to Gather His Church is AFTER the Tribulation

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Taken

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Which is exactly what you have done when you QUOTE the Matthew 24:29-31 Scripture when you PUSH a false Pre-trib Rapture theory. It's so hilarious, you contradict yourself so strongly by doing that!

Uh...You have a problem with me RESPONDING to an other poster quoting Matt 24 ?

Wise up. I did’t bring up Matt 24...I responded to it! :rolleyes:

I’m laughing at you, spouting off that I was using Matt 24 for my position....when I wan’t .

When you can not follow a conversation best to giggle in silence instead of opening your yap and proving your ignorance.
 

Davy

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Brethren, look at how this person loves to talk like he is declaring Bible Scripture when he actually is not, but instead is only pushing upon the gullible ideas that come from men's doctrines. And it's so easy to note this IF one stays with what is actually written in God's Word.

It is sad you are totally unaware God and the Lord Jesus sits IN HEAVEN, Sending DOWN to Earth Tribulations and Wrath UPON the inhabitants OF the earth FOR the inhabitants OF the earth REJECTION!

Jesus taught about a "great tribulation" for the very end of this world, and He showed His faithful what to expect when going through it, and commanded us to not allow any man to deceive us (Matthew 24 and Mark 13). So that includes deceivers like this person that is IGNORANT of WHEN God's wrath upon the wicked is to happen as written, and it is NOT for during the time of "great tribulation".

Jews WIDELY Accept God and REJECT the Lamb of God as their Savior.
IN Heaven...one by one the Lamb of God opens the SEALS and sends His WRATH upon inhabitants OF the Earth, that have REJECTED HIM!
Jews and Gentiles.
Guess that would be YOU.

This person is spouting junk doctrines from men, because nowhere in God's Word is it written that Christ's Church is raptured prior nor during the future "great tribulation". One of the main tactics of the false pre-tribulational rapture theory from men is a SCARE TACTIC aimed at the gullible that won't study their Bible to know these liars are pushing a doctrine of men.

This person does not know me, and already he's claiming I am condemned just because I refuse to follow the pre-trib rapture falseness he has latched onto from men, and because I instead keep God's Word as written.

I have already shown his falseness clearly when he quoted Jesus in Matthew 24:29-31 where Lord Jesus revealed His coming to gather His saints is AFTER THE TRIBULATION, but then this person instead pushes the false pre-trib rapture lie that says Jesus raptures His Church PRIOR to the tribulation, and so he directly contradicted himself while quoting Scripture! One doing that cannot get any more deceived than that today, or... they purposefully are pushing man's false agenda as one of the "tares" of Matthew 13.

Since BEFORE the Lamb of God opens the SEALS...
The Lords Angel gathers THOSE “IN” Christ together in the Clouds, Because THE Lamb of God IS NOT angry with them.
Because THE Lamb of God has NO Wrath to send from Heaven upon them!

That above is wrongly assuming... that Lord Jesus comes to gather His saints PRIOR TO THE OPENING OF THE SEALS of Revelation. There is NO SUCH GATHERING EVENT written prior to the Seals of Revelation. They ADD that to God's Word in Revelation when they mis-teach Christ's Book of Revelation. Lord Jesus is STILL WARNING HIS CHURCH that He comes "as a thief" even on the 6th Vial of Revelation 16:15, showing the Church is STILL on earth even to that timing! That completely strikes out ANY idea of the Church being raptured prior to Revelation 6, which is what they wrongly teach.

YOU should discover WHY the Lamb of God IS ANGRY with YOU, and YOU appointed suffer HIS WRATH!

This person is still yet to understand the 'wrath' that will come upon the deceived in His Church when Lord Jesus does return AFTER the tribulation, and He finds they have not remained "a chaste virgin" waiting on HIM, but instead fell away thinking the coming false-Messiah was Him instead, and they bow to the wrong one. (This is easily understood by Apostle Paul's warnings in 2 Corinthians 11 about the "another Jesus", and in 2 Thessalonians 2 about the false one coming to Jerusalem to play God, and in Matthew 24:23-26 by Lord Jesus warning His faithful saints about the coming pseudo-Christ in Jerusalem that the deceived will be saying is The Christ.)

IF YOU have not be killed during the Lambs Wrath, are you going to run to Jerusalem and be taught the gospel of Jesus Christ by TWO Witnesses of Gods People ISRAEL?

This person is completely ignorant about the Commission of God's "two witnesses" of Revelation 11, and the timing that is. No rapture has happened yet at that time of the 6th Trumpet - 2nd Woe period. Jesus comes on the 7th Trumpet as shown in that chapter. That chapter says the "two witnesses" are also about two candlesticks. Jesus revealed at the end of Revelation 1 that the candlesticks in Heaven represent the seven Churches of Revelation 2 and 3. Only 2 of those seven Churches had NO PROBLEMS in them, showing they represent Christ's elect.

This means that during that 6th Trumpet - 2nd Woe period (which is "great tribulation" timing before Jesus' coming), the "two witnesses" God sends will be two men, literally, in Jerusalem, prophesying against the beast, AND also about two elect Churches in all the world that will be prophesying against the beast. It means those two men, and two Churches of Christ's elect will be the ONLY ones NOT deceived by that coming false-Messiah (see Revelation 13:4-8). The deceived world will be saying, "Peace and safety", thinking Christ has come and is going to make everything right. But that first one coming WILL NOT BE LORD JESUS, but an imposter, which Jesus and His Apostles warned us about (that is, for those of His servants that listen to Jesus in His Word.)

Are you going to escape Jerusalem and run to Mt Zion and be Taught the gospel of Jesus Christ by Gods PEOPLE ISRAEL, the 144,000 Tribesmen OF ISRAEL?

Once again, this person is completely Biblically illiterate about the 144,000 out of the tribes of Israel listed in Revelation 7. Those represent CHRISTIANS of the 'seed' of Israel, not unbelievers. This is why Revelation 7 shows those being SEALED with God's Seal! But this person can't even READ that simple Scripture to know this, which points to what; it points to this person having been duped by men's agendas, listening to them instead of God's Word.

Will you THEN believe the gospel of Jesus Christ and testify of your belief, and THEN be killed for your belief, and THEN “SAVED”?
Will you THEN expect to WITH Gods People ISRAEL gathered from the the four corners of the World?

Once again, this person loves to spout falsehoods, naturally, even against Gospel believing Christians! It's difficult for me to believe this person even believes The Bible, since he goes so far away from the actual Scriptures of God's Word, and so blatantly runs his mouth against those of us who DO STUDY AND KNOW OUR BIBLE.

Here is what Lord Jesus' Revelation actually teaches ...

1. Not all the 'events' Jesus gave in His Book of Revelation happen in the order that John was given to see them, and wrote them down. Jesus returns to defeat His enemies on earth and pour out God's cup of wrath, and gather His Church, on the FINAL DAY of this present world. That day is called the "day of the Lord" in Scripture.

Per the end of Revelation 6, Revelation 11, and Revelation 16, that 'day' happens on the 6th Seal, 7th Trumpet, and 7th Vial. The 7th Seal actually serves as a marker for completeness with the short time of silence. Thus 777 is the actually time of Lord Jesus' future coming to end this world and gather His Church.


2. The last 3 trumpet-woes are 'periods' leading up to Christ's future return on the 7th Trumpet, which is the "last trump" of Apostle Paul in 1 Corinthians 15. Each period covers specific events just prior to the time of "great tribulation" (5th Trumpet - 1st Woe), and then into the time of "great tribulation" (6th Trumpet - 2nd Woe), and finally with Christ's coming on the 7th Trumpet - 3rd Woe. All of the events given in those periods, from the first mention of the woes at the end of Revelation 8, and thru to the end of Revelation 11, happen in order. Only the Revelation 10 chapter is given in the parenthetical sense, meaning a pause for a detail. At Revelation 11:1 the 6th Trumpet - 2nd Woe period picks up again.


3. The event of God's future cup of wrath poured out upon the wicked is for the LAST DAY of this world when Jesus comes to gather His faithful Church. That 'wrath' event is NOT FOR DURING THE GREAT TRIBULATION. That 'wrath' event on the 7th Vial is from God upon the wicked and deceived!

The "wrath" which Apostle Paul taught in 1 Thessalonians 5:9, does NOT happen during the time of great tribulation like the pre-tribbers wrongly teach. Paul in that chapter was pointing to the "sudden destruction" upon the deceived who will be saying, "Peace and safety" when that destruction suddenly comes upon them on the last day of this world, and why is that? Because Lord Jesus said He comes "as a thief", and that is why Paul taught there that the "day of the Lord" will come "as a thief in the night"! Christ's coming is going to surprise those deceived, and God's wrath of the 7th Vial is then poured out upon them, causing that sudden destruction event which even God's Old Testament prophets wrote about.

Satan's wrath is what happens for the time of "great tribulation", NOT that 1 Thessalonians 5:9 "wrath" (which is ONLY for the final 7th Vial on the "day of the Lord"). Men's false pre-trib rapture theory BYPASSES those 1 Thessalonians 5:1-8 verses and pulls out that single 9th verse to abuse it per their man-made theory.


4. The previous events of God's wrath in Revelation 16 will involve the plagues which God will give His two witnesses in Jerusalem to do upon the beast and the deceived, very much like it was in Egypt during the days of Moses. Those plagues will be upon the 'beast' and his kingdom, NOT upon those who remain faithful waiting for Lord Jesus to come after that tribulation.
 

amigo de christo

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Amen brother!
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Davy

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There's no helping them brethren. Those on the FALSE PRE-TRIB RAPTURE THEORY are 'ordained' to that deception. Only when Jesus does return AFTER THE TRIBULATION like He said, will they understand what falseness they have latched onto... and the Communists they follow.


Mark 13:24-27
24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,


25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.

26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.


27 And then shall He send His angels, and shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

KJV
 

Davy

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The false pre-trib rapture theory from men wrongly believes God's wrath happens DURING THE GREAT TRIBULATION, which of course is not written anywhere in His Word.

The Church will be subject to Satan's wrath during the time of "great tribulation". Jesus showed the Church is NOT going anywhere until He returns AFTER THE TRIBULATION.
 

Taken

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Brethren, look at how this person loves to talk like he is declaring Bible Scripture when he actually is not, but instead is only pushing upon the gullible ideas that come from men's doctrines. And it's so easy to note this IF one stays with what is actually written in God's Word.


Jesus taught about a "great tribulation" for the very end of this world...

Scripture reveals God did ONCE become Angry with the whole world and His Anger turned to Wrath and His Wrath to turned to a promise of Tribulation upon the earth and it’s inhabitants...
And God saw 8 of mankind in the whole of the world willing to do FOR YEARS all God commanded, and they Same 8 After Preparing in Obedience to God, to Escape Gods Tribulation....were the ONLY 8 lifted up off the face of the Earth, during Gods Tribulation...SAVED!

Scripture reveals God shall AGAIN become Angry with the world, and His Anger shall turn to Wrath and His Wrath shall turn to the whole world and He shall again send DOWN FROM Heaven His Tribulation.
* We have NO precise number of the FEW who have Prepared to Escape Gods Tribulation...
* However individuals KNOW who they ARE, their preparation, their readiness, their Escape already established for the UNKNOWN day, God shall SEND His Tribulation UPON the Earth and ALL of the Earths Inhabitants.
* Because Davy, YOU are not prepared, Because Davy, YOU have made God Angry, Because Davy, YOU will get to experience Gods Tribulation....Be GLAD for yourself. Look forward to God Anger and Wrath and Tribulation....Surely YOU and God are in agreement YOU are not worthy of Escape.

and He showed His faithful what to expect when going through it, and commanded us to not allow any man to deceive us

* Davy, Believers shall go through Portions of Gods Wrath and Tribulation, and yes, yes, HANG on to your BELIEF to the day you are slaughtered, so after your body is dead, your soul WILL BE SAVED.

* Kudos Davy, IF you be A BELIEVER hang in there, enjoy Gods terrible Tribulation...

* You can remain Ignorant, but do not be Jealous, BECAUSE a FEW of us Have BECOME CONVERTED, already given our body’s unto Death, already have our souls Saved, already have our spirits Quickened, and AS Noah was SAVED and Lifted Up OFF the Face of the Earth, so shall the FEW who have been MADE CONVERTED.


* Silly but you are seemingly determined to remain IGNORANT of the Difference Between a BELIEVER, who can fall away (but warned not to fall away)....and a CONVERTED man, who can never fall away, nor is subject to Wrath.

* You are obviously ignorant of the FACT, Salvation is NOT given UNTIL after a bodily death occurs...
So...we can only hope you get to experience Gods Tribulation and be Killed, before you deflect and fall away. Whew...As much as you are counting on that experience....Would you like me to pray for you to live that long, so you do not miss experiencing Gods Tribulation?

* I opted for Gods ESCAPE offering, Gave my body DEAD crucified with Jesus...As far as suffering tribulations FOR my Belief IN Christ Jesus...
I’ve had enough Tribulations for my Standing with God, from politicians, governments, men like you whose mouth runs like a sieve and behavior and false accusations are over the top.
 

Taken

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There's no helping them brethren. Those on the FALSE PRE-TRIB RAPTURE THEORY


Oops, you forgot to go and read and learn...Noah was SAVED being lifted up off the face of the Earth in Gods First Great Tribulation.

Gods Last Great Tribulation, AGAIN the SAVED shall be lifted up off the face of the Earth.

Very foolish to Preach opposition Davy.
The Converted ARE NOT Subject to Wrath.

the Communists they follow.


LOL...PATHETIC. But thanks for sharing you have lost any validity of your position and have to grasp at random negative and irrelevant accusations.
 

L.A.M.B.

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There are 2 events that happen. This is what I believe.

The Great Tribulation is for the BELIEVERS. Satan will try everything even death to make the faithful renounce Jesus Christ. Torture, torment, any device imaginable to cause pain and suffering, ways we can't image will be used to break our faith.

The time frame that is alluded too is not of great concern to me. Remember Satan was cast to the earth and became prince of this part of God's creation.
Why would he cause tribulation to those whom are unbelievers ?

Tribulation brings believers patience which gives us the ability to endure.

Now whenever God appoints it, the event next is God's wrath. It will NOT be for God's children for Christ drank that cup of our wrath that we deserved at his death.

He must show Lucifer once more that he CANNOT win against the Ancient of Days.
His wrath will be against all who follow Satan and not Christ.

There is no straddling the fence, we MUST CHOOSE whom we serve, for we cannot serve 2 masters. We must follow Jesus by way of the cross. Serving God in his word, in faith and obedience.

We ARE to watch and be sober having on our armour. We are to understand the signs of the time leading to these events.

Serving God is NOT frivolous, it is hard, demanding; we must crucify ourselves and follow Jesus. He is OUR shepherd and the head of the body, we must transform, being led by the Spirit, that we may hear his voice and walk in faith.
 

Taken

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Christ's Coming to Gather His Church is AFTER the Tribulation

OP^ :rolleyes:

Not a big secret...
Christ doesn’t gather His Church.
An archangel of the Lord gathers Christ Church!

Not a big secret..
Christ’s Church are exclusively the Converted.

Not a big secret...
The Converted have already given their body unto death, crucified with Jesus’ Body.

Not a big secret...
Receiving SALVATION of ones soul, and QUICKENING of ones spirit...occurs AFTER Bodily Death.

Not a big secret...
The Converted IN Christ are lifted up off the face of the earth, before God Tribulation...already bodily dead, already saved, already quickened...with the Lord...waiting for all the men upon the earth to die...with or without God.

Not a big secret...
God sends His angels to gather ISRAEL from the four corners of the Earth after they have become bodily dead.


Amazing the number of people who do not know what applies to Jews, what applies to Gentiles, who gathers who or when, or the difference between what applies to a believer or what applies to a Converted men.

Seriously, who has taught you such nonsense, that you failed to verify in Scripture?
 

Timtofly

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Christ's Coming to Gather His Church is AFTER the Tribulation

OP^ :rolleyes:

Not a big secret...
Christ doesn’t gather His Church.
An archangel of the Lord gathers Christ Church!

Not a big secret..
Christ’s Church are exclusively the Converted.

Not a big secret...
The Converted have already given their body unto death, crucified with Jesus’ Body.

Not a big secret...
Receiving SALVATION of ones soul, and QUICKENING of ones spirit...occurs AFTER Bodily Death.

Not a big secret...
The Converted IN Christ are lifted up off the face of the earth, before God Tribulation...already bodily dead, already saved, already quickened...with the Lord...waiting for all the men upon the earth to die...with or without God.

Not a big secret...
God sends His angels to gather ISRAEL from the four corners of the Earth after they have become bodily dead.


Amazing the number of people who do not know what applies to Jews, what applies to Gentiles, who gathers who or when, or the difference between what applies to a believer or what applies to a Converted men.

Seriously, who has taught you such nonsense, that you failed to verify in Scripture?
Of those days.

The church has had 1992 years of tribulation.

"Take heed that no man deceive you. For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many. And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places. All these are the beginning of sorrows. Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake. And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another. And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come."

After these days of tribulation is the Second Coming.

After the Second Coming is the 7th Seal.
After the 7th Seal comes 6 Trumpets.
After the 6 Trumpets comes 7 Thunders.
After the 7 Thunders comes the 7th Trumpet.
 

The Light

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Christ's Coming to Gather His Church is AFTER the Tribulation

OP^ :rolleyes:

Not a big secret...
Christ doesn’t gather His Church.
An archangel of the Lord gathers Christ Church!
No. The Lord Himself comes for His Church. The bridegroom comes for the bride. No angels involved.
 

Taken

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Of those days.

The church has had 1992 years of tribulation.


Well aware the tribulations the Church has suffered at the hand of evil and wickedness.
Well aware the Church is not subject to Wrath from Heaven.
Well aware HOW the Church escapes the Wrath from Heaven.

God has tribulations of His own to send upon the Earth.
Then shall God gather Israel.

"Take heed that no man deceive you.

A man converted IN Christ, does not require such warning.
Are you unaware a man IN Christ also has Christ IN him?
Are you unaware NO Power is greater than Christ, the Power of God?

Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake. And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.

Again that has no bearing on a man IN Christ.

After these days of tribulation is the Second Coming.
After the Second Coming is the 7th Seal.

You can repeat that over and over and over, BUT as yet have not quoted one Scripture that says what you claim.
 

Taken

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No. The Lord Himself comes for His Church. The bridegroom comes for the bride. No angels involved.

In a traditional ancient Jewish custom...

Jewish bridegrooms usually came for their brides late at night, near the midnight hour. Shofars would break the silence of night. There would be shouts in the streets, and a torch-light procession which would wind its way through the town to the home of the bride. This gave her a few extra moments to dress to prepared to leave her fathers home.

When Christ’ Church is gathered up off the face of the earth, clearly Scripture has revealed ... The Lord himself gives a shout....sufficient for His Church, His Bride to hear and respond.
The Bridegroom does not come to the Bride.
The Bride is summoned to come to the Groom in the clouds.


[16] For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
 

Timtofly

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You can repeat that over and over and over, BUT as yet have not quoted one Scripture that says what you claim.
You have never read the book of Revelation? You are posting in the wrong forum if that is the case. Why do I have to point out what Revelation clearly teaches?
 

Taken

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You have never read the book of Revelation? You are posting in the wrong forum if that is the case. Why do I have to point out what Revelation clearly teaches?

Cause if what you claim is SO CLEARLY TAUGHT, why do keep repeating YOUR words and NOT QUOTE Scripture saying what YOU claim?
 

Timtofly

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Cause if what you claim is SO CLEARLY TAUGHT, why do keep repeating YOUR words and NOT QUOTE Scripture saying what YOU claim?
I have. You just keep quoting stuff back also without Scripture. Zechariah 14 when Jesus comes to earth is the Second Coming. It is the 6th Seal. It is Matthew 24:30. It is to the Mount of Olives. On the way Down the church is glorified and presented to God on the throne.

This is all witnessed by every one on earth. Revelation 6:16 says that all on earth can see the face of the one sitting on the throne. That is the Ancient of Days on the GWT. God only has one GWT, and it has been in the same spot since Genesis 1:1. We cannot see it, because since Adam we have been spiritual blind.

When the heavens roll up like a scroll, all spiritual blindness will be gone. That is why they are hiding in caves and under the rubble attempting to get away from God and the Lamb.
 

Taken

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Look, all this back and forth is nothing but a big mess.
State your claim, then state the scripture that says what you claim.
You making a claim, then referencing a scripture is not my interest.
 

No Pre-TB

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Oops, you forgot to go and read and learn...Noah was SAVED being lifted up off the face of the Earth in Gods First Great Tribulation.

Gods Last Great Tribulation, AGAIN the SAVED shall be lifted up off the face of the Earth.
You are linking the flood to a type of widespread persecution or the feeling of being hemmed in? Your problem, sir, is not understanding that wrath and tribulation have different meanings. The flood was not a type of great tribulation because the flood was wrath. Tribulation is never God’s wrath. So to say we don’t go through tribulations is ridiculous. Tribulations are meant to teach and turn people towards God and away from wickedness. We glory in tribulations because of what they do! I suggest Proponents of the Pre-TB theory attempt to recognize specific words and their proper definitions if they truly care about truth.