Coincidences? Or Time to WATCH be READY for the Day and Hour Is Near

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David in NJ

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Think what you choose. The master is coming soon for the rapture of the Church. If you want to stay here, I think that is possible as there are foolish virgins that are not watching and ready and cannot see as they have no lamp oil.
You can wish all you want - the only thing you are gonna see is the Antichrist.
If you make it thru the MoB then, maybe, you will be around for His Coming.

Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to Him, we ask you, brothers, not to be easily disconcerted or alarmed by any spirit or message or letter seeming to be from us, alleging that the Day of the Lord has already come. Let no one deceive you in any way, for it will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness—the son of destruction—is revealed. He will oppose and exalt himself above every so-called god or object of worship. So he will seat himself in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God.

Do you not remember that I told you these things while I was still with you?
 

David in NJ

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Think what you choose. The master is coming soon for the rapture of the Church. If you want to stay here, I think that is possible as there are foolish virgins that are not watching and ready and cannot see as they have no lamp oil.
Oil is symbolic of the Holy Spirit of Truth and HE has nothing to do with the lie of pre-trib rapture.

Revelation 10:7 - But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he is about to sound his trumpet, the mystery of God will be fulfilled,
just as He proclaimed to His servants the prophets.
 
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ewq1938

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They are BEFORE THE THRONE IN HEAVEN.


No, they aren't. That isn't what the evrse says:

they are without fault before the throne of God

Being without fault before the throne is not the same as standing right there. They are on the Earth in that chapter, with the returned Christ and they are just outside of Jerulsalem, and about 66 miles from where Armageddon happens.
 

The Light

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Oil is symbolic of the Holy Spirit of Truth and HE has nothing to do with the lie of pre-trib rapture.

Revelation 10:7 - But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he is about to sound his trumpet, the mystery of God will be fulfilled,
just as He proclaimed to His servants the prophets.
Anointing oil is symbolic of the Holy Spirit. Lamp oil is used to see.
 
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The Light

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No, they aren't. That isn't what the evrse says:



Being without fault before the throne is not the same as standing right there. They are on the Earth in that chapter, with the returned Christ and they are just outside of Jerulsalem, and about 66 miles from where Armageddon happens.
*sigh*,
Revelation 14
2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:

3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

And no man could learn that song but the 144,000 that were redeemed from the earth.

The 144,000 are REDEEMED FROM THE EARTH and are singing before the throne.

There's always an excuse why you can't accept or understand the written Word of God.
 

The Light

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And that is not from scripture.
Well. The Word says that God's voice is as a trumpet. You can believe anything you want, which is why you have no clue the Lord is at the door. Wake up. It will be too late.........soon.
 

ewq1938

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Well. The Word says that God's voice is as a trumpet.

Yes and that is an analogy which means God's voice is as loud as a trumpet. It does not mean what you claim, that a trumpet sounding is God's voice when the text clearly describes an angel sounding the trump. You have a lot to learn, and a lot to toss out. This is one. Telling people to "wake up" is not impressive given the many errors in your theology.
 

ewq1938

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*sigh*,
Revelation 14
2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:

3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

And no man could learn that song but the 144,000 that were redeemed from the earth.

The 144,000 are REDEEMED FROM THE EARTH and are singing before the throne.

There's always an excuse why you can't accept or understand the written Word of God.

You don't understand scripture. You should stop trying to teach it.

People LEARNING a song means they are NOT SINGING IT at the same time. The harpers do the singing and the 144k are learning it.
 

The Light

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You don't understand scripture. You should stop trying to teach it.

People LEARNING a song means they are NOT SINGING IT at the same time. The harpers do the singing and the 144k are learning it.
You have the Church going through the trumpets of wrath. Nuff said.
 

ewq1938

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You have the Church going through the trumpets of wrath. Nuff said.

The wrath of God starts at the 7th trump according to scripture. You always avoid that fact.


Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
Rev 11:16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
Rev 11:17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

Here it clearly states that God's wrath has come (arrives) after the 7th trump sounds. Clearly God's wrath hadn't been coming for a long time before this or else the statement would be meaningless.
 
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The Light

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The wrath of God starts at the 7th trump according to scripture. You always avoid that fact.


Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
Rev 11:16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
Rev 11:17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

Here it clearly states that God's wrath has come (arrives) after the 7th trump sounds. Clearly God's wrath hadn't been coming for a long time before this or else the statement would be meaningless.
How is it that you are totally unable to comprehend that when "the kingdoms of this world are become the kingdom of our Lord" Jesus has returned, Armageddon is over and the Lord has set up His kingdom on the earth. Why you are unable to understand that verse,........... I can't understand.
 

ewq1938

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How is it that you are totally unable to comprehend that when "the kingdoms of this world are become the kingdom of our Lord" Jesus has returned, Armageddon is over and the Lord has set up His kingdom on the earth. Why you are unable to understand that verse,........... I can't understand.


It's you that doesn't understand the verse. The kingdoms are his at the 7th trump, not the armies that LEFT the kingdoms to go to Armageddon. Armageddon happens AFTER the 7th trump sounds, later that day.
 

Timtofly

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Peter had far better knowledge of Greek than many experts today. He was involved in it. And I was referring to todays followers. but that is just a dodge on your part
Not when we are going by Peter's words.

The dodge was moving to a grammar excuse why you deny the Word of God.
 

Timtofly

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Nah. The trump of God is the voice of God. The Lord Himself will descend from heaven at the trump of God.

The Lord will send His angels at the Last Trump

After that the Lord will return at the end of the trumpets of wrath with the armies of heaven.

If you are unable to understand these things, I am not sure what course of action to recommend.
Zechariah 9:14

"And the Lord shall be seen over them, and his arrow shall go forth as the lightning: and the Lord God shall blow the trumpet, and shall go with whirlwinds of the south."

"For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:"

It never says the angel blows a trumpet. It says the voice of an angel is heard. Is there a distinction when an angel sounds like a trumpet, and when the angel uses a trumpet? Seems so according to Scripture.

"And the seven angels which had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound."

"In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed."

God Himself could be blowing the Trumpet. Paul never states an angels blows the Trumpet at the Second Coming. Paul states an angel uses his voice which can sound like a trumpet.

"I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,"

No voices are used in Revelation 8.

"And the seven angels which had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound."

One of those Trumpets could be the Trumpet of God. We are not told. So most assume the last Trumpet is also the Trumpet of God, then go on to assume it is an angel instead of God sounding the Trumpet of God.

"And the Lord shall be seen over them, and his arrow shall go forth as the lightning: and the Lord God shall blow the trumpet, and shall go with whirlwinds of the south."

No assumption in that verse. Now is Zechariah talking about the Second Coming? The point is that the Lord can sound the Trumpet just as easily as an angel can. Paul does not specify if an angel is sounding the trumpet or God. An assumption either way. Paul states that both a voice of an angel is used and the trump of God. The implication is that God can use a trumpet, and a greater chance, since the angel is using their voice, and not a trumpet. Who wants to be stricter in the wording of Scripture?

Is there a verse that states an angel actually blows the Trumpet of God? Not that I can find. Paul is the only one stating there is a Trumpet of God.

Why is it the last trump?

The Second Coming is when the church is made complete. It is also the first Trump of the body of Christ. I would say last, because no one will be allowed in the body of Christ after that point. That is the one and only roll call for the glorified church.

Is it an assumption that Paul is even conflating the church with the feast of an Israelite tradition? Israel was never the church. Israel was a type of the Church called out even among those of Israel. The church never replaced the type. The church was the body of Christ after the Cross. However the NT church does not exclude all those redeemed not born during the last 1993 years. Not all of Adam's redeemed flesh will be gathered and glorified at the Second Coming.

The firstfruits of the Millennium are gathered after that roll call. That is why premil should make a distinction between the body of Christ and those redeemed who reign with Christ. The interpretation of the 7 Trumpets is just as important as who is being glorified as complete sons of God.

The Trumpets were always the roll call of Israel as distinct from the church. And the church was always sealed as distinct from national Israel.

The Seals are about the harvest of the church, not tribulation, nor wrath. It is God's judgment on a church that rebelled, not the church that repented.

The Trumpets are for Israel, not the church. The Trumpet of God is for the church.
 

Timtofly

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If you don't want to call it raptured, we can call it caught up to heaven. The are first fruits meaning they have been harvested as 1st fruits and are presented to the throne.
Has Jesus ever been raptured from the earth?

I think the Scripture states ascending and descending. Those 144k are stuck to Jesus like glue even more than the original 12.

If they are raptured then so is Jesus. If they ascend so does Jesus. Since they are overcome in Revelation 13, then so is Jesus.
Now you can take a strict literal interpretation, add thoughts to Scripture, or correctly divide the Word to get a non contradictory interpretation. If Satan is allowed 42 months, then Jesus and the 144k vacate Jerusalem and the throne. You can call that a rapture, being overcome, or whatever. They are not killed. They have to wait on mount zion until the 42 months are over, probably a few seconds or minutes, from God's perspective.

If Satan is not allowed 42 months, then all humanity are killed per chapter 14. Otherwise all humanity will be killed 42 months later at Armageddon.

Also, the harvest in Revelation 14 is a direct result of the 7th Trumpet, when all earthly kingdoms are declared under the authority of Christ as King in Revelation 11:15. That is not declaring all humans suddenly become redeemed. Revelation 14 is cleaning house day, and all those who never accepted Christ or were harvested in the Trumpets and Thunders are now harvested in totality.

They will not be given 42 more months to take the mark or chop off their head. If Revelation 14 happens and there is a harvest, that is it. We skip to Revelation 20, and Satan is bound instead of granted 42 months. There is no resurrection of the beheaded, because all that never happened.

Revelation 14 and Revelation 19 are not two seperate events. They are alternative endings to the 7th Trumpet. All of humanity cannot be killed twice. It is either Revelation 14 or Revelation 19, not both.

One where the midst of the week is given to Satan for the AoD, and one is if the week is not divided and ends in victory. Satan is still bound either way. Both give Satan a little time. 3 days to plead his case, or 42 months if he is allowed.
 

Timtofly

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How is it that you are totally unable to comprehend that when "the kingdoms of this world are become the kingdom of our Lord" Jesus has returned, Armageddon is over and the Lord has set up His kingdom on the earth. Why you are unable to understand that verse,........... I can't understand.
The vials don't happen until after Satan's 42 months, and so does Armageddon. The 7th Trumpet starts to sound before Satan is even given 42 months if at all.

You declare Armageddon is a done deal, and the Second Coming has not even happened yet.

Yes, the Kingdoms are declared Christ's, before Satan is given 42 months. How else does Satan lay claim to that throne, if Jesus has not even set it up yet?
 

David in NJ

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And you forget that Paul spoke of the last trump- 40 years before god gave it to John!!!!!

And you need to learn what the tekiah gedolah is.
The tekiah godolah does not direct Scripture.

Scripture directs the Truth = the Last Trump is the 7th Trump for the Resurrection of the Just = Revelation 10:7

"But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he is about to sound his trumpet, the mystery of God will be fulfilled, just as He proclaimed to His servants the prophets.”

Do you know what God has proclaimed to His servants the Prophets???