Concede Now, or Concede Later.

[amigo de christo]

Ever get the feeling this generation is lying to us when it says no matter what we do , even if we forsake HIM he will never forsake us .
WHO are we gonna believe . THE TRUE PROPHETS or todays men . AS FOR ME , I IS A STICKING TO THE BIBLE FOR MY TRUTH

 

[Johann]

Ever get the feeling this generation is lying to us when it says no matter what we do , even if we forsake HIM he will never forsake us .
WHO are we gonna believe . THE TRUE PROPHETS or todays men . AS FOR ME , I IS A STICKING TO THE BIBLE FOR MY TRUTH

Noticed no one is responding amigo, which brings this portion of scripture to mind...

Mat 16:24 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.


2Ti 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
2Ti 2:16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.

Shalom
J.

 

[Enoch111]

What it does look like then, is that we should expect "knowledge shall increase."

You've got a good point and that is how it should be. Whether or not you will see this is something else. But a day will come -- after the Second Coming of Christ -- when this (Isa 11:9) will be fulfilled: They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea.

 

[ScottA]

You've got a good point and that is how it should be. Whether or not you will see this is something else. But a day will come -- after the Second Coming of Christ -- when this (Isa 11:9) will be fulfilled: They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea.

Line upon line, hear a little, there a little...

And incase you missed this:

Or as it says in Proverbs 4:18 (WEB):

(18) But the path of the righteous is like the dawning light, that shines more and more until the perfect day.

Quite refreshing!

 

[Robert Gwin]

Robert,
Sorry I can't "Like" your comment. But you are exactly right, and it's most eloquently stated in scripture:

Isaiah 29:9
Pause and wonder! Blind yourselves and be blind! They are drunk, but not with wine; They stagger, but not with intoxicating drink.

Isaiah 6:9
And He said, “Go, and tell this people: ‘Keep on hearing, but do not understand; Keep on seeing, but do not perceive.’​

Isaiah 6:10
“Make the heart of this people dull, And their ears heavy, And shut their eyes; Lest they see with their eyes, And hear with their ears, And understand with their heart, And return and be healed.”
​

Good thing it's not forever.

Sadly it is Scott. Most people feel we are getting close to Jesus' return. I am one of those people and when he does here is what the Bible says happens: (2 Thessalonians 1:6-9) . . .This takes into account that it is righteous on God’s part to repay tribulation to those who make tribulation for you. 7 But you who suffer tribulation will be given relief along with us at the revelation of the Lord Jesus from heaven with his powerful angels 8 in a flaming fire, as he brings vengeance on those who do not know God and those who do not obey the good news about our Lord Jesus. 9 These very ones will undergo the judicial punishment of everlasting destruction from before the Lord and from the glory of his strength,

You would have to admit, satan is very good at what he does. he knows that if he cannot get someone to worship him directly, if he can get them to worship any other god it will amount to a victory for him. As you know most people who claim to be Christian, and of course that includes most who post here worship Jesus, completely ignoring what Jesus said at Mat 4:10 when satan tried to get him to worship him. Remember what God said in his first commandment which Jesus reiterated at Mat 22:37. A true Christian will worship and serve the God Jesus promoted and worshipped himself.

Those who get destroyed at Jesus' return have been judged unworthy correct? That means all executed at his return will not be back.

 

[ScottA]

Sadly it is Scott. Most people feel we are getting close to Jesus' return. I am one of those people and when he does here is what the Bible says happens: (2 Thessalonians 1:6-9) . . .This takes into account that it is righteous on God’s part to repay tribulation to those who make tribulation for you. 7 But you who suffer tribulation will be given relief along with us at the revelation of the Lord Jesus from heaven with his powerful angels 8 in a flaming fire, as he brings vengeance on those who do not know God and those who do not obey the good news about our Lord Jesus. 9 These very ones will undergo the judicial punishment of everlasting destruction from before the Lord and from the glory of his strength,

You would have to admit, satan is very good at what he does. he knows that if he cannot get someone to worship him directly, if he can get them to worship any other god it will amount to a victory for him. As you know most people who claim to be Christian, and of course that includes most who post here worship Jesus, completely ignoring what Jesus said at Mat 4:10 when satan tried to get him to worship him. Remember what God said in his first commandment which Jesus reiterated at Mat 22:37. A true Christian will worship and serve the God Jesus promoted and worshipped himself.

Those who get destroyed at Jesus' return have been judged unworthy correct? That means all executed at his return will not be back.

Certainly close enough. Just so you don't entirely leave out the first resurrection that began with Christ the firstfruits 2,000 +/- years ago.

 

[ChristisGod]

Doesn't everyone want to be right about God?

We do this forum stuff day in and day out and it is so rare--it happened today, that a biblical case is made against what someone believes, and you almost never hear, "Hmm, let me put that before God, maybe do a little more research."

Kudos to the brother who did--it shows great character!

But it brings up a topic that I think is missing in the mindset of most Christians: That is that these times have been ordered by Christ to lead us into all truth by the Holy Spirit. Now, I know that could be perceived many different ways, some of which are just too scary for some. Nonetheless, scary or not--that is the order of the day. Which, no, does not come in the many ways imaginable. It comes just as Jesus outlined it:

Matthew 16:17
Jesus answered and said to him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven.
​

Which I do not bring up to make this a Catholic issue. Please don't. Start another thread if you want--I'll even join you there. But that is not the issue of discussion here. Please.

But back to Jesus' declaration of how things are to be revealed during the church age: Clearly it is not by flesh and blood, but by the Father, whom is spirit. In other words, the rest of what is to be revealed of all truth is to be revealed spiritually.

So...what does that look like in a forum setting?

Well...it doesn't look like one scripture pit against another as if God made a mistake on the other scripture. We need to do better than that. It also doesn't look like majority rule. Nor does it mean "what has always been believed" gets a pass to continue in error. And it doesn't look like agreeing-to-disagree or just going away. Remember, that "All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness." 2 Timothy 3:16

What it does look like then, is that we should expect "knowledge shall increase." EXPECT IT. It means facing the music--for crying out loud. Because error is a foretold fact by Jesus, as well as both Peter and Paul. So much so, that it is referred to as the believing of a "lie" and "strong delusion." Jesus made a few statements along these lines specifically regarding Israel, telling them things like "You have heard such and such, but I say this." He was addressing hundreds of years of what needed correction. And with the somber predictions of what would occur during our own times--it might even be worse for us.

So, what, should we just put our blinders on, believe what we have always believed, not heeding the warnings, and continue the same old pitting of one scripture against another, and squabbling? Or should we take a more honest approach and be prepared to concede before we die and get hit with it all at once, in shame?

Please.

Great topic .

 

[quietthinker]

My advice is concede now to biblical truth , cause on the day of judgment many will wail .
Paul often warned about another jesus getting preached or another gospel . WELL its huge in these days .
We need an all out exodus from what much of men have taught and a massive entrodus back into bibles to learn for ourselves .
I think i invented a word , ENTRODUS . oh well it makes a good point

I think the term 'biblical truth' is far too broad. Why do I say this? because much of what is in the biblical writings have big limitations.
Consider Jesus saying 'you have heard said an eye for an eye but I say unto you, do not resist and evil man'

Folks heard what Jesus referenced from the Rabbis who got their information from the OT.
The question now arises, whose notice do we consider has the greater authority? ie, what they had heard or Jesus' pronouncement on the matter?

It brings the term 'biblical truth' into a new light the which requires better or clearer definitions.....if at all using that term.

 

[amigo de christo]

I think the term 'biblical truth' is far too broad. Why do I say this? because much of what is in the biblical writings have big limitations.
Consider Jesus saying 'you have heard said an eye for an eye but I say unto you, do not resist and evil man'

Folks heard what Jesus referenced from the Rabbis who got their information from the OT.
The question now arises, whose notice to we consider has the greater authority? ie, what they had heard or Jesus' pronouncement on the matter?

It brings the term 'biblical truth' into a new light the which requires better or clearer definitions.....if at all using that term.

If JESUS said it , DO IT . By learning Christ doctrine and the apostels doctrine the truth becomes very clear .

 

[Brakelite]

Cherished opinion proved the ruin of the Jews, and it will prove the ruin of many in our day. Rather than give up some cherished idea or idol of opinion, many refuse the truth which comes from the Father of light. They insist on being saved in some way by which they may perform some important work, and that work, even posting on Christians forums, becomes their 'Savior'. When they see there is no way of weaving self into God's work, they reject the salvation provided.

 

[ScottA]

I think the term 'biblical truth' is far too broad. Why do I say this? because much of what is in the biblical writings have big limitations.
Consider Jesus saying 'you have heard said an eye for an eye but I say unto you, do not resist and evil man'

Folks heard what Jesus referenced from the Rabbis who got their information from the OT.
The question now arises, whose notice do we consider has the greater authority? ie, what they had heard or Jesus' pronouncement on the matter?

It brings the term 'biblical truth' into a new light the which requires better or clearer definitions.....if at all using that term.

You bring up a great point about Jesus' approach.

Jesus being the Word of God and the "firstfruits" of the spirit of God, would surely have been clarifying what had never before (except by the prophets of God) been "spiritually discerned" as Paul later described it. But also, having announced the coming of "all truth" during the church age by the spirit, which was foretold by Joel the prophet and confirmed by Peter on the day of Pentecost, Jesus would have been kicking it off...which then according to Him would be the way that the church would receive truth, just as He told Peter was how he had come to know that Jesus was the Christ, saying "flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven."

All of which then is the playbook, and what we should expect during these times.

 

[ChristisGod]

One way to tell if someone is being led by the Holy Spirt comes from Jesus teaching on it below.

Jesus said the Holy Spirit will bear witness of HIM

John 15:26
“When the Advocate comes, whom I will send to you from the Father—the Spirit of truth who goes out from the Father—he will testify about me. 27 And you also must testify, for you have been with me from the beginning.


John 16:7-9
But very truly I tell you, it is for your good that I am going away. Unless I go away, the Advocate will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you. 8 When he comes, he will prove the world to be in the wrong about sin and righteousness and judgment: 9 about sin, because people do not believe in me


John 16:13-14
But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. 14 He will glorify me because it is from me that he will receive what he will make known to you.

 

[ScottA]

One way to tell if someone is being led by the Holy Spirt comes from Jesus teaching on it below.

Jesus said the Holy Spirit will bear witness of HIM

John 15:26
“When the Advocate comes, whom I will send to you from the Father—the Spirit of truth who goes out from the Father—he will testify about me. 27 And you also must testify, for you have been with me from the beginning.


John 16:7-9
But very truly I tell you, it is for your good that I am going away. Unless I go away, the Advocate will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you. 8 When he comes, he will prove the world to be in the wrong about sin and righteousness and judgment: 9 about sin, because people do not believe in me


John 16:13-14
But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. 14 He will glorify me because it is from me that he will receive what he will make known to you.

Yeah, the fear of some is even so great that the Spirit would become an excuse for some to get away with whatever false notions please them, that they want nothing to do with anything spiritual, even turning to the scriptures as the Pharisees did. Which of course was not the answer, for it caused them to reject the Word become flesh.

Yet, if as it was seen on the day of Pentecost, the Word becomes flesh within those of His body--how shall we avoid the chaos without rejecting those who come after Christ the firstfruits?

This is a big one for many. I personally do not fear the wave of chatter that surely ensues...as it has been said many times, "he who has an ear, let him hear." The battle is won.

 

[Brakelite]

You bring up a great point about Jesus' approach.

Jesus being the Word of God and the "firstfruits" of the spirit of God, would surely have been clarifying what had never before (except by the prophets of God) been "spiritually discerned" as Paul later described it. But also, having announced the coming of "all truth" during the church age by the spirit, which was foretold by Joel the prophet and confirmed by Peter on the day of Pentecost, Jesus would have been kicking it off...which then according to Him would be the way that the church would receive truth, just as He told Peter was how he had come to know that Jesus was the Christ, saying "flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven."

All of which then is the playbook, and what we should expect during these times.

I would add a word of caution. Peter did not promote this spiritual revelation in his letters, in fact, quite the opposite. After meeting with Moses and Elijah on the mountain, he said even that, as remarkable and eye opening as it was, was not to be used as a basis for truth, saying, we have a more sure word of prophecy. By this he was referring to the written word, which when enlightened by the holy Spirit, can be understood by children. There is no revelation in the spirit that brings new light. Jesus revealed truth to the disciples on the road to Emmaus, beginning with Moses and the prophets, showing from all of scripture... Himself.

 

[Robert Gwin]

Certainly close enough. Just so you don't entirely leave out the first resurrection that began with Christ the firstfruits 2,000 +/- years ago.

Jesus was the first resurrection who did not have to die again. The next were his brothers when the first resurrection occurred. Rev 20:6. Soon after his return with the coming of the Kingdom of God all those who have not received the judgment of Gehenna, will be resurrected, what a glorious day that will be when hell is emptied and cast into the lake of fire.

 

[ScottA]

I would add a word of caution. Peter did not promote this spiritual revelation in his letters, in fact, quite the opposite. After meeting with Moses and Elijah on the mountain, he said even that, as remarkable and eye opening as it was, was not to be used as a basis for truth, saying, we have a more sure word of prophecy. By this he was referring to the written word, which when enlightened by the holy Spirit, can be understood by children. There is no revelation in the spirit that brings new light. Jesus revealed truth to the disciples on the road to Emmaus, beginning with Moses and the prophets, showing from all of scripture... Himself.

No...that explanation has Peter contradicting himself and Jesus: Peter, in that he confirmed the Spirit at Pentecost, and Jesus, who said that we would be perfect just as God is perfect--who is spirit.

So no, which would mean that the "more sure word of prophecy" was and is rather by the Spirit.

As for Jesus restating the scriptures to the disciples on the road, it was not prophecy, but history.

 

[ScottA]

Jesus was the first resurrection who did not have to die again. The next were his brothers when the first resurrection occurred. Rev 20:6. Soon after his return with the coming of the Kingdom of God all those who have not received the judgment of Gehenna, will be resurrected, what a glorious day that will be when hell is emptied and cast into the lake of fire.

I'm not sure you even know the timing of what you have just stated...even though you stated it.

Nonetheless, Jesus announced the time of the coming of the Kingdom of God:

Matthew 12:28
But if I cast out demons by the Spirit of God, surely the kingdom of God has come upon you.
​

Click, click, click. Tick tock.

 

[Robert Gwin]

I'm not sure you even know the timing of what you have just stated...even though you stated it.

Nonetheless, Jesus announced the time of the coming of the Kingdom of God:

Matthew 12:28
But if I cast out demons by the Spirit of God, surely the kingdom of God has come upon you.
​

Click, click, click. Tick tock.

Jesus did make statements like that but the Kingdom itself had not came Scott, however the King of it had. The time of the Kingdom coming was not the point of that verse, it was given to,
the authority for which his name stood as the anointed representative of the Kingdom, the one with authority to call for, not merely one legion, but a dozen legions of angels, capable of expelling any demons who might stubbornly resist the order to leave, was really the point sir. They were accusing Jesus of being from the devil, rather than from Jehovah.

 

[ScottA]

Jesus did make statements like that but the Kingdom itself had not came Scott, however the King of it had. The time of the Kingdom coming was not the point of that verse, it was given to,
the authority for which his name stood as the anointed representative of the Kingdom, the one with authority to call for, not merely one legion, but a dozen legions of angels, capable of expelling any demons who might stubbornly resist the order to leave, was really the point sir. They were accusing Jesus of being from the devil, rather than from Jehovah.

Jesus did not say that, but said that the Kingdom of God had come. Which is confirmed by the prophecies of His Day and Hour, which had come upon that evil generation fulfilling all things...just as He said.

The mistake of ages, is not to believe it, just as He said it.

 

[amadeus]

@ScottA
Does all of the truth needs to known in order to be saved or is it rather that the Truth needs to be loved... including any part not yet known correctly or clearly?

When and if one grows in Christ, the Truth [is this Jesus?] loved should be becoming clearer. In order to grow, I believe, one must admit the possibility of error in what he believes at a given moment so as allow the Spirit within to work! ["Quench not the Spirit." I Thess 5:19

"And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:" II Thess 2:10-11

The delusions are what one receives when he refuses to admit that something he holds may be mistaken. He blocks God! This is free will at work against God, is it not?

"He must increase, but I must decrease." John 3:30 [increase the new man in me as the old man in me is decreased]

"For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known." I Cor 13:12

"And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man." Luke 2:52
If we are not similarly increasing, can the following be true about us?

"Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is." I John 3:2