Conflating Jesus' Second Coming with the Scorched Earth is not possible

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Ronald D Milam

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No, that is something you have an issue with which is why you don't understand why you have disproven pretrib.
You think the 7th Trump sounds near the Middle of the 70th week right? As I stated you do not know how to interpret Prophecy at all brother, nd that's OK, not everyone is called unto prophecy, so do what God called you to do, because its not interpreting Prophecy.

PERIOD.....
 

Ronald D Milam

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That's the rest of the dead, and there won't be martyrs during His reign.

Murdered Christians maybe, but not martyrs. The King and His resurrected rulers won't allow that. Nor wars between nations.

Also, there is no difference between the murdered dead in Christ, and those dying of natural causes.

Dead bodies are dead bodies, no matter how they came to be dead.

Mohammed promotes martyred for warfare, and we see where that kind of bogus ideology gets a religion.
Those raised after Jesus' "Second Coming" which really means Second Advent on earth, Jesus has been to earth a zillion times no doubt. You have the Pre Trib Raptured Church, who return with Jesus, and those Martyrs seen in Rev. 20:4 are the only ones who rules (in a glorious body) on this earth with Jesus for 1000 years. In other words if we are not Martyrs of the 70th week, then (pre trib raptured church can't be) we will not remain on this earth ruling with Jesus, we go back to Heaven to do what God thinks we should do, IMHO, I think we help complete the New Jerusalem because as it descends it is called the Bride of Christ, well, we are the Bride of Christ, not some inanimate object like a city. So, we descend in the New Jerusalem. Then after that 1000 years THE REST OF THE DEAD arise to be judged, why are they judged only after the 1000 years? I think Satan and all of his followers are only judged after the 1000 year reign in order to have a ZIP LOCKED CASE !!! We know God is righteous in all of His judgments, but like us men, in a death sentence, the case should be beyond all doubt, even to us mere underlings, and we the Church are going to judge Angels (Demons).

So, everyone gets judged via the JUXTAPOSITION of Satan's 6000 year rule verses Jesus' 1000 year reign as Lord of lords and King of kings !! We can measure the murder, mayhem, hate, greed, lusts etc. etc. against each other and this will condemn Satan and all of his followers to DEATH !! Amen.

The rest of the dead means the Wicked who are nit judged until 1000 years later.

But they won't, as Scripture says, once God's great tribulation and wrath starts on earth, after resurrecting all His saints into the air with Himself.
No it does not, you take words and conflate the meanings. Yes, those with the Mark of the Beast will never repent. But BEFORE the Judgments start at the 1260 midway point, if you were left on earth while lets say your Christian wife was Raptured (if you were not a Christian) and you then wanted to repent, of course you could repent, else there would be no Martyrs. You see, when we do not get the Raptures timing right, we can see all kind of things differently. The THEY WILL NOT REPENT, is speaking about who were targeted, only those who had the Mark of the Beast were targeted in that verse, WATCH:

In the first Woe we are shown who is being targeted by God's Wrath.

Rev. 9:4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.

Since the Rapture is Pre Trib, this means the Martyrs can only have repented after the Rapture, as does the 3.5-5 million Jews who repent in Zech. 13:8-9.

The the Greatest Ever Troubles only start at the midway point, and if you still have not taken the Mark of the Beast then you can still repent. Notice why they don't repent in Woe #2, because the worship, stone, wood, gold, silver and brass idols. They worship the Beast, thus their fate is sealed.

Faith alone is dead. OSAS false.
NOPE..........works will not get you to heaven. Faith in Christ Jess righteousness does, when we BELIEVE then we are led by the Holy Spirit who produces the fruit of the spirit in is. Why do you think Jesus told his disciples not to think what they were goig to say, but just let the holy spirit speak for them? Thus if its the holy spirit, its not us but instead the Spirits working in us. We just have to learn to yield.

I do not know what this was in reference unto, but if you did not come unto Christ by FAITH ALONE, then you came the wrong way.

Now you've started contradicting Scripture to teach your stuff.

That personal visit from Jesus, does not entitle you to do that.

The only thing saints will be caught up into at that time, will be the air with the Lord.
No, you just do not understand the timing of the Rapture so it confuses you. That's not my problem. The Rapture is Pre Trib. You can go on and on, but you will still be wrong.

There won't be any Christians on earth, once the church alive and remaining on earth, is caught up into the air.

Then the Lord's tribulation and wrath upon earth begins. Not before.
The Rapture is PRE TRIB, the Saints in Revelation repent AFTER the Rapture. See how not knowing the timing of the rapture throws you off on everything else?

So you say.

Scripture does speak of a 'phased in' first resurrection.

That's man's ideas, to try and make a triangulated doctrine fit into a trapezoidal hole.
Yes it does, you not UNDERSTANDING the timing of the Raprure just MISS IT. Lets see, if the Rapture is Pre Trib (IT IS) and the Church is taken Pre Trib and those in Rev. 20:4 are Raised and judged after Jesus' Return then we have a multi phased Resurrection don't we? Of course we do, and of course those who can't get the timing of the Rapture right are CONFUSED by these truths !!

All of your errors can be tied to NOT UNDERSTANDING the timing of the Rapture sadly.

Neither do I. I only trust Scripture's eschatology of these last days, that have been since the days of the apostles.

Pre trib is true: prior to the great tribulation and wrath of God to punish the wicked on the earth, He will first resurrect the dead bodies of His people, and catch up them alive from off the earth into the air with Him.

But the ongoing great tribulation and wrath of man upon the saints, begun with Cain slaying Abel, will remain on earth, until that first bodily resurrection of the righteous in Christ Jesus.

That will be during the reign of the last antichrist rising on the earth, whenever that is.

The first resurrection is God first resurrecting His people, when He appears again in the air above the earth.
I don't care what you trust or don't trust, you care wrong and in error. Why would I care, I don't take post or pre wrath people serious on eschatology. As brothers, that's a different matter, they may win souls at the drop of a hat, but they are not called unto Prophecy, IMHO, if they get the timing of the Rapture wrong.
 

robert derrick

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those Martyrs seen in Rev. 20:4 are the only ones who rules (in a glorious body) on this earth with Jesus for 1000 years.
Beheading is spiritually true for all Christians, whose new Head is Christ.



In other words if we are not Martyrs of the 70th week,
Teaching physical martyrdom with special rewards is Mohammed. Not Jesus.

Death of the body is nothing, compared to death of the soul.

then (pre trib raptured church can't be) we will not remain on this earth ruling with Jesus,
After meeting with Him in the air, then back to earth.

All saints dead in Christ and alive on earth, will meet Him in the air, when He comes again.


Then after that 1000 years THE REST OF THE DEAD arise to be judged,
True.

why are they judged only after the 1000 years?
Because all the dead must be judged.

And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment.


I think Satan and all of his followers are only judged after the 1000 year reign
Satan is already judged.

Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.

When you don't let Scripture guide your teaching, then your teaching will not be that of Scripture, but of your own mind only.



The rest of the dead means the Wicked who are nit judged until 1000 years later.
True. And the righteous walking in His paths during His earthly reign, whose names will be found written in the Lamb's book of life.

Those thousand years will be the greatest harvest of souls to Himself ever on earth.

No it does not, you take words and conflate the meanings. Yes, those with the Mark of the Beast will never repent. But BEFORE the Judgments start at the 1260 midway point,
If any repent during the great tribulation and wrath of the Lamb upon the earth, while He is with His resurrected saints in the air, then they will be among the natural sheep allowed into His kingdom on earth.

And then they will be resurrected with the rest of the dead, but unto life.


You see, when we do not get the Raptures timing right, we can see all kind of things differently.
The rapture's timing is perfect, even as the Father's, when He commands the Son to appear again on earth.

All the dead in Christ and alive on earth will be caught up to meet Him in the air. Including Abel, Enoch, Noah, Job, Abraham, David, Micah, Paul, Stephen, etc...

After the slaughter and cleansing of Jerusalem, the King will then give Abraham the land he walked on, and Job will see it with his own eyes.

The THEY WILL NOT REPENT, is speaking about who were targeted, only those who had the Mark of the Beast were targeted in that verse, WATCH:

In the first Woe we are shown who is being targeted by God's Wrath.

Rev. 9:4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.
True. I believe that could include the Christians at that time grafted into the green olive tree of Jacob, and being built up as the tabernacle of David, as today.

Since the Rapture is Pre Trib,
Pre-trib God's wrath upon the unbelieving, not pre-trib man's wrath upon the saints.

this means the Martyrs can only have repented after the Rapture,
If any man repents and believes the gospel, he can be saved. If that is after all saints of history have already been resurrected, and the Lord's tribulation and wrath is upon the earth, then so be it.

However, Scripture suggests they won't, until the Lord descends with the Spirit of Grace for those not gathered to war with Him.

And blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and repented not of their deeds.

The the Greatest Ever Troubles only start at the midway point,
Jesus does not say the greatest ever troubles, but greatest tribulations the world has yet to see.

The troubles of Jacob have been going on since Cain slew Abel, because he was righteous, and Cain hated him for it.

The last great antichrist on earth will have power on earth to have Christians hunted and killed, like Nimrod, but the greatest ever tribulation and wrath of God on earth, will begin after the resurrection of all His saints into the air.


NOPE..........works will not get you to heaven.
No, but unrighteous works will get you to hell.

OSAS is false. Only those doing the righteousness of God, are righteous as He.

'Doctrinal' righteousness based upon faith alone, is imaginary only.

We are what we do, not what we like to think we are.

Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by his fruit.

Faith in Christ Jess righteousness does, when we BELIEVE then we are led by the Holy Spirit who produces the fruit of the spirit in is.
Christ produces His spiritual fruit in us, only as we are obeying and doing His word, beginning with cleansing our spirit within the cup:

Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall.

Fatih alone doing nothing is dead.


Why do you think Jesus told his disciples not to think what they were goig to say, but just let the holy spirit speak for them? Thus if its the holy spirit, its not us but instead the Spirits working in us. We just have to learn to yield.
True, and say and do what He says to do.

I do not know what this was in reference unto, but if you did not come unto Christ by FAITH ALONE, then you came the wrong way.
Faith alone is dead. There is no other Scripture, that speaks of faith alone, other than being dead and alone.

We come to God by faith to please Him.

Those not doing so, come to God by some other way, for something else.

God is not pleased by admitting He is God, just as the devil's do.

No, you just do not understand the timing of the Rapture so it confuses you. That's not my problem. The Rapture is Pre Trib. You can go on and on, but you will still be wrong.
And you can keep ignoring my points about this.

The Rapture is PRE TRIB, the Saints in Revelation repent AFTER the Rapture. See how not knowing the timing of the rapture throws you off on everything else?
Not knowing the difference between the tribulation and wrath of man, that purifies the saints, and the tribulation and wrath of God, that punishes the rebellious, is off.

The great tribulation and wrath of the end of these last days, is divided between that of man on saints, and that of the Lord on the wicked.

The former ends with the resurrection of all saints, and the latter ends with the Lord and His saints making war around Armageddon.
I don't care what you trust or don't trust, you care wrong and in error. Why would I care, I don't take post or pre wrath people serious on eschatology. As brothers, that's a different matter, they may win souls at the drop of a hat, but they are not called unto Prophecy, IMHO, if they get the timing of the Rapture wrong.
When you want to at least acknowledge my arguments about tribulation and wrath of man, vs tribulation and wrath of God, let me know.
 
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ewq1938

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You think the 7th Trump sounds near the Middle of the 70th week right? As I stated you do not know how to interpret Prophecy at all brother, nd that's OK, not everyone is called unto prophecy, so do what God called you to do, because its not interpreting Prophecy.

PERIOD.....


All you have period done is avoid the original issue where you disprove Pretrib and then commence to make personal attacks (the weapon of those who have no scriptural foundation to base arguments upon)
 

Ronald D Milam

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Beheading is spiritually true for all Christians, whose new Head is Christ.
And that point has absolutely nothing to do with Rev. 20:4, it just means the died for Christ instead of taking the Mark of the Beast. These are simple concepts.

Teaching physical martyrdom with special rewards is Mohammed. Not Jesus.

Death of the body is nothing, compared to death of the soul.
This is maybe the most nonsensical post I have ever seen. No one is TEACHING ANYTHING, LOL, I am repeating the Word of God. The problem is you are not very good at understanding Prophecy, at all. Who says its a REWARD per se? Its just that God/Jesus doesn't need billions of people with Glorious bodies on earth to help him rule with a rod of iron, thus he's only going to take the select few whom died during the 70th week, the rest of us I assume go back to Heaven to do other things. Its not a reward per se, its just God choosing who does what. All men who are raised in Christ are REWARDED, what that reward is doesn't really matter dies it?

I can't do this, your every concept is wrong, something aint right brother, you need to take a deep look at yourself.
 

robert derrick

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This is maybe the most nonsensical post I have ever seen. No one is TEACHING ANYTHING, LOL,
When you say only those physically killed, gains a special place in the body of Christ, and special rewards in the resurrection of the body, then you are teaching Islam.

Now, if it's true, then the Bible is agreeing with the Koran.


Who says its a REWARD per se?

Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Are you saying it's not a blessed and holy reward?

But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.

Being specially blessed and holy, with a resurrection all to oneself, and privileged to reign with Christ Himself on earth, is...a reward. SImple.

And if it is specifically confined to physical martyrs, then that is more Islam than Bible.

Its just that God/Jesus doesn't need billions of people with Glorious bodies on earth to help him rule with a rod of iron,
Ah. Now you revert to speculation based on your own ideas.

The amils do the same, showing their personal issue with Millennialism, by asking why have one at all.

You ask why have so many glorified saints in it.

You show you have a personal issue involved here, and not just truth of Scripture.

I first learn the simple truth of Scripture, and then I can wonder about the questions of why.

Questions of why does not go before learning what. Because then all we see is what we want to.


thus he's only going to take the select few whom died during the 70th week,
You're not the Lord, and it's not your Millennium.

Scripture speaks plainly, that all the dead in Christ since Abel, and those remaining alive on earth, which didn't include Paul afterall, will meet the Lord in the air, at His coming again to reign over the earth.

Simple.

Adjust your prophesy to that cornerstone, and then see what Scripture reveals to you.

Revelation is a book of revealing secrets and mysteries, not one of making things more intellectually complicated. Especially not with contradicting other Scripture, as well as first principles of doctrine of Christ.

Whether in salvation or in punishment today, there is no Greek nor Jew nor Gentile in sight of Christ.

Nor will there ever be again on this earth.

However, the Hebrews and Jews after His reign is established, will be His personal natural priesthood for all the King's lands, nations, and subjects.

the rest of us I assume go back to Heaven to do other things.
Please.


Its not a reward per se, its just God choosing who does what.
It's a reward, just not above nor special reward of Christ Jesus, with special resurrection and reigning privileges.

Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.

Job, Abraham, and David all died of old age.

And yet, Abraham will receive the land he walked on, Job with see it with his eyes, and David will be standing with the Lord sitting on David's throne.



All men who are raised in Christ are REWARDED, what that reward is doesn't really matter dies it?
Yes, if one saints is considered more worthy than another, based upon manner of bodily death.

Getting our head whacked off is not a special qualifier. Even if in the faith.

That's an easy ticket to heaven, but enduring to the end at old age, still has plenty of temptations to overcome daily.

Now, burning at the stake. That is not what I would like to leave this world by.



I can't do this, your every concept is wrong, something aint right brother, you need to take a deep look at yourself.
Until you at least acknowledge the simple truth, that all the dead in Christ, and all them alive and remaining on earth, will meet the Lord in the air, at His coming again to earth, then the rest of your prophesying will be forever off and askew.

Get that cornerstone in place first, then start building again. Not from scratch, but with more sure eyes.

We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts.

And Abraham, Job, and David will be on earth with Him, to fulfill prophecy of Scripture.
 

Ronald D Milam

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When you say only those physically killed, gains a special place in the body of Christ, and special rewards in the resurrection of the body, then you are teaching Islam.

Now, if it's true, then the Bible is agreeing with the Koran.
YOU say its a SPECIAL REWARD, not me..........I say Its a CHOICE God made, duh, just because you say something that is incoherent doesn't make it so. So, going back to Heaven and working there is not also a Special Reward. SEE how ignorant that statement is? I doubt it, you do not seem to have comprehension skills at all. I am finished with you, thinking about placing you on ignore, and I never do that to anyone. You do not emit a Christ like Spirit AT ALL. And you know nothing about Eschatology.