Conflating Jesus' Second Coming with the Scorched Earth is not possible

[bbyrd009]

near as i can tell each and every one of the umpteen sects of Christianity differ on the irrelevant, but all, to a man, agree on the lie, “death, more abundantly”

 

[shilohsfoal]

ok tks

No,thank you.

 

[Ronald D Milam]

This is the resurrection of the rest of the dead, after the thousand years are expired.

Wrong, you trip yourself up more and more trying to MAKE SOMETHING FIT which WILL N0T FIT !!

Only the Wicked are raised and judged after the 1000 years. The first resurrection happens when Jesus raptures us pre trib, and when he resurrects the Martyrs in Rev. 20:4, that is the First Resurrection.

Yes, Daniel and all saints at His appearing, will meet Him in the air, and then stand with Him on the earth with Job to begin His reign.

No, the Church meets Jesus in the air, to go to the marriage chambers Jesus prepared. Dan. will not need to meet anyone in the air, Jesus is returning to earth t set up the Kingdom Age. Not understanding the Raptures timing leaves you guys hopeless as per understanding the end times in full.

Joseph is in Gen 37. Not a woman.

If the woman of Rev 12 is mother of the saints, then that woman must be the ministerial heavenly Jerusalem of God, by which all saints are born sons of God:

But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

This is one of those single proof Scriptures, that need no explanation nor searching for other corroboration. Our only mother of faith is heavenly Jerusalem. And our only father of faith is Abraham. Simple. (No, our mother is never said to be Sarah, nor Mary.)

Hmmmm, You mean really do not understand ?

The Woman = Israel !! She has the Sun, Moon and 12 Stars under her feet,. now look at the dream Joseph had again !! He saw the Sun (Jacob) Moon (Rachel) and 11 stars (his brothers) bowing down unto him, thus the Sun, Moon and 12 Stars = Israel !! John could not say Israel else the Romans would have took the letters from the 7 Churches and charged them with treason fir says Israel were gong to be protected by Gid when Rome had just sacked them. He also could not say the Whole World was going to be judged, thus he used Babylon. God wrote the book of Revelation, John just transcribed it.

So, in essence, you have no way of understanding the passage brother until you understand the Woman is code for Israel.

The time of the natural Jews was before the cross, and will be again during His reign. And will be the same as always: land and priesthood and law.

But for now, by not calling the church of Christ one people and children of God, whether Jew or Gentile, then respect of persons and division of the body of Christ, is called for.

Gal. 3 DOES NOT SAY that there is ONE PEIOPLES both Jew and Gentile, like Rev. 12 brother you do not understand the passage at all. If your interpretation of Gal. 3 was correct there would be NO MALES or FEMALES we would all be ONE SEX. So, when Paul says Males and Females YOU GET THAT !! He's just saying IN FAITH we are all one, makes AND females, bit you totally miss it when he says we are not Jews or Gentiles that he is juxtaposing it the exact same way, by speaking ONLY about how we come unto Christ Jesus, which is by FAITH ALONE !! Both Jews and Gentiles, we are still Gentiles they are still Jews, the whole chapter went right over your head brother, all because you like I were taught the wrong understanding of this meaning.

Israel never repents until the 70th week, the Jews who repent before are indeed a part of the Church but Israel doe not repent until the Time of the Gentiles has come full. Of course todays Messianic Jews are a part of the Church, but the Church is not Israel. Israel married the Father. we will marry Jesus. Jacob had two brides, one forced (Leah) and one preferred (Rachel).

True. They were the natural people to produce the promised Christ through the seed of David and Abraham.

At the cross, they voided themselves of any promise after the flesh, by disannulling the Old Covenant with the God of Israel.

Not true, God even says this is a falsehood. His Promises to Abraham will be fulfilled, in spite of Israel He says, He does it for His names sake.

Romans 11 is not about keeping the Jews as specially beloved in sight of God today, as opposed to other nations, and especially in the body of Christ, but rather is all about Paul rebuking the new Christians from judging all natural Jews, as unable to be saved.

They are saved, as Zech. 13:8-9 says, 1/3 repent, thus 3.5 to 5 million Jess flee Judea unto Petra. That is what Paul meant by ALL Israel is saved, nit every Jews but Israel as a nation is preserved.

 

[Ronald D Milam]

I reject the use of Gentiles as pertaining to nations in the doctrine and prophecy of the apostles. Only when they are specifically and obviously making difference between Jew and Gentile, is it accurate.

With the death and resurrection of Christ, we are all once again born of one blood (Acts 17), without any difference of seed or flesh, as that of David and Abraham of old. Maybe in man's prophetic eyes, but certainly not acknowledged by God. Not today.

This is simply nit true, we are Raptured Pre Trib, we do not come back to earth with Jesus to remain, only fir our Wedding Feast (victory over the wicked). Only the Martyrs live and reign with Christ on this earth inglorious bodies for 1000 years, which means we go back to heaven, my guess is we finish off the New Jerusalem, because when it descends it is called the Bride of Christ, we are in it as it descends.

You do not understand the Kingdom Age at all it seems brother.

But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the nations: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

You have no idea what this means. Reread it after I tell you, see if you can see it. Rev. 11 is ONLY ABOUT the Two-witnesses ministry. So, John is being shown the parameters of the Two-witnesses with his measuring sticks. Basically, he is telling them the Two-witnesses have only come to witness unto Israel, NOT to the Gentiles (Just like Jesus' ministry).

Rev. 11:1 And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.(Jews only)

2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not;(Do not preach or minister unto the Gentiles) for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months. 3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

Malachi 4:5-6 says Elijah will be sent back BEFORE the DOTL (1260) to turn Israel back unto God. They preach tote Jews only, just like Jesus, an Angel in Rev. 14:6 takes the Gospel unto the whole world. They preach repentance to the Jews who Flee Judea, that's why they know to flee Judea, and they pray down he plagues upon mankind !!

Only Jews could enter into the Temple, the Gentile had a Court yard they could enter. That is where the Wailing wall is today, none of the Temple is still standing.

Every least Christian in Christ Jesus, is every bit as much a member of the green olive tree of the house of Israel and Judah, at this time, as any other Christians among the nations on earth.

The Gentiles were grafted in, but they ARE NOT Israel. In Rev.14 the 144,000 have the Fathers name in their forehead. We marry Jesus.

Do like Paul and tell zealous Jew, that he is not a child of Abraham, and that we are by faith, and he'll stone us too. (If he can get away with it)

At this time today, between the cross and Jesus' second appearing, the only children of Abraham on this earth, in sight of God, are them of the faith of Abraham, and not by natural seed alone.

Israel are blinded until we are Raptured (Time of the Gentiles) after that 3.5-5 million Jew will repent. ALL Israel will be saved. You conflating Israel and the Church is just wring headed. If you do not understand it, leave it be.

All Christians are raised up at His second appearing, and all the rest of the dead are live again to be judged, when the thousand years expire.

There was national difference after the flesh before Christ comes in land, priesthood, and covenant, and there will be again after He comes again, inland and priesthood, but no more in covenant.

All flesh will need come to Christ on the throne by faith, to be circumcised and born again of Him in the Spirit.

During His thousand year reign, He will save the believing souls with the physical touch of His own hand.

WRONG, the Rapture is pre trib. I do not trust anyone on eschatology who does not understand the Pre Trib Rapture, its too simple and basic to miss tbh.

When you show a specific point of mine pertaining to Scripture offered, is faulty reasoning, then sure, I'll be glad to be corrected and perfected by you.

Until then, restating your same points doesn't do it.

You are in error, it would take all day to show you in scriptures everything you are in error on. That is on you, because you of course think you understand it all but understand very little brother.

So, an antichrist false apostle, is not a false christ? They are different religions?

Right, he's just a Politician who bring is a Jewish high priest who demands Beast worship, like Jason did via Antiochus over 2100 years ago.

Lets just drop it, I do not have time to overcome all of your misconceptions. You will see what you get to heaven that I w correct on nigh 100 percent of what I say.

 

[Ronald D Milam]

got it all figgered out, have ya? Sing it with me,
"it's like this and like that and like this" lol
ok best of luck to you ok

LOL, what rock did he come out from under. As a preacher of 37 years I dont think I have ever seen a board get so weird in one night. More power to you brother. Check your carbon monoxide levels in the house !! Quick.

 

[ewq1938]

Wrong, you trip yourself up more and more trying to MAKE SOMETHING FIT which WILL N0T FIT !!

Only the Wicked are raised and judged after the 1000 years. The first resurrection happens when Jesus raptures us pre trib, and when he resurrects the Martyrs in Rev. 20:4, that is the First Resurrection.

But that happens post trib and the verse proves it because those saints were beheaded for refusing the mark of the beast and that mark only comes during the GT proving they weren't raptured away and resurrected before the GT happened.

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

These will take part in the first resurrection which happens at the rapture timeframe but they are resurrected AFTER the mark of the beast is forced upon the world, accepted or rejected.

You just proved pre-trib is not correct.

 

[bbyrd009]

LOL, what rock did he come out from under. As a preacher of 37 years I dont think I have ever seen a board get so weird in one night. More power to to brother. Check your carbon monoxide levels in the house !! Quick.

well i mean you gotta admit to having a whole lotta facts about the future in there
anyway best of luck to you in your quest for immortality ok
i genuinely hope it works out

 

[amadeus]

near as i can tell each and every one of the umpteen sects of Christianity differ on the irrelevant, but all, to a man, agree on the lie, “death, more abundantly”

Yes, often without even knowing what you are talking about...

The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly." John 10:10 Have you been to a Christian funeral lately where the focus was on Life rather than death?

 

[bbyrd009]

Yes, often without even knowing what you are talking about...

The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly." John 10:10 Have you been to a Christian funeral lately where the focus was on Life rather than death?

i dont go to funerals
wakes, etc, but no funerals

 

[Ronald D Milam]

But that happens post trib and the verse proves it because those saints were beheaded for refusing the mark of the beast and that mark only comes during the GT proving they weren't raptured away and resurrected before the GT happened.

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

These will take part in the first resurrection which happens at the rapture timeframe but they are resurrected AFTER the mark of the beast is forced upon the world, accepted or rejected.

You just proved pre-trib is not correct.

Well, for starters you must not have gotten your Wheaties this morning, he stated this below:

This is the resurrection of the rest of the dead, after the thousand years are expired.

To which I made my reply, the REST OF THE DEAD means the wicked at the 2nd Resurrection.

Yes, the Wicked are resurrected 1000 years after the 2nd Coming. But that has zero to do with the Pre Trib Rapture of the Church, nor the Martyrs raised after Jesus' Second Coming. Those not Raptured Pre Trib can still repent, all they have to do is accept Jesus by FAITH ALONE, like we do now, then most or many will be killed by the Anti-Christ (Martyrs), some will be caught up in Gods Wrath, bad weather kills Christian people today, the Asteroid will kill some who have repented, no doubt. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth to all of those not ready for the Pre Trib rapture.

The First Resurrection does nut have to all happen at the sane time, you can have a FIRST FOOTBALL game of the year and it has FOUR QUARTERS, you can understand this but can't understand the First Resurrection doesn't have to happen all at the same time !!

The Pre Trib is a fact, as a matter of fact I do n9t trust ANYONES Eschatology, AT ALL, who does not understand the Pre Trib Rapture, I discount any and everything they put forth on Eschatology.

 

[amadeus]

i dont go to funerals
wakes, etc, but no funerals

What would it do for our economy if we all decided to skip the funeral? Just burn it or bury it [IT being the carcass].

 

[robert derrick]

Only the Wicked are raised and judged after the 1000 years.

And the righteous during Christ's reign, that will be found in His book of life.

The first resurrection happens when Jesus raptures us pre trib,

Pre-trib of God's wrath. Not ongoing tribulation and wrath of man on saints.

and when he resurrects the Martyrs in Rev. 20:4, that is the First Resurrection.

All saints are beheaded martyrs, when they crucify their old man of sin, and take up their own cross for Christ. The word beheaded used in Rev 20 is spiritual in nature, not literal. There is no special reward for bodily killed saints, above those dying in Christ naturally.

Muhammed is wrong.

No, the Church meets Jesus in the air,

True, all the saints since Abel, old and new. This is their bodily resurrection.

to go to the marriage chambers Jesus prepared.

Say again? This is new to me. Please explain with Scripture.

Dan. will not need to meet anyone in the air,

Yes he will, in order to descend with Jesus to war on earth, and then reign with Him.

Jesus is returning to earth t set up the Kingdom Age.

True.

Hmmmm, You mean really do not understand ?

The woman is not Jacob, nor the Israel of God. She's the ministry of God.

The sun is now the Head Jesus Christ.

The stars are the children of Israel and sons of God.

John could not say Israel else the Romans would have took the letters from the 7 Churches and charged them with treason fir says Israel were gong to be protected by Gid when Rome had just sacked them. He also could not say the Whole World was going to be judged, thus he used Babylon.

God does not have His word written in fear of what men do. Nor do His apostles and prophets.

The apostles were not afraid of Romans, whote wrote to the Romans, and John was not afraid of the Jews, when he wrote Jerusalem is that great city Babylon, and spiritually Sodom and Egypt, where our Lord was crucified.

God wrote the book of Revelation, John just transcribed it.

The prophets and apostles are the pen of the ready writer Christ.

The prophets and apostles do not interpret Scripture from God, and then transcribe and encode it.

they write every jot and tittle God gave them to write.

So, in essence, you have no way of understanding the passage brother until you understand the Woman is code for Israel.

I understand Scripture as written in plain words.

I don't bother with politics of man to do so.

Gal. 3 DOES NOT SAY that there is ONE PEIOPLES both Jew and Gentile,

True. You do.

Both Jews and Gentiles, we are still Gentiles they are still Jews,

I am American after the flesh.

There is no prophecy of Scripture being fulfilled based upon flesh and blood, from the time of Jesus coming in the flesh, to coming again in the air.

Afterward, yes, in land and priesthood.

Israel never repents until the 70th week,

Israel now are them that do repent and believe the Gospel, to obey Jesus as Lord and God.

Born Jews have been repenting since Jesus rose from the dead.

Israel after the flesh today, is not the Israel of Jacob, nor the Israel of God.

Today, all flesh is grass to God and prophecy of Christ, whether male or female, Jew or American.

until the Time of the Gentiles has come full.

We are in the time of the nations, whether Israeli or American.

Favoritism between flesh and blood on earth, for the sake of prophecy is false.

That is, until after He begins reigning on earth. And then it will only be a natural division of land and priesthood, for the sake of Abraham and David.

Of course todays Messianic Jews are a part of the Church,

Whether Messianic Jew or Messianic American, all are members of the body of Christ in part.

There is no division of the body of Christ with one part Jewish, and another part American.

That is schism teaching: I am of the Jews, I am not of the Americans.

but the Church is not Israel.

Yes, we are the Israel of God on earth and in heaven, and the green olive tree of Jacob, and the tabernacle of David.

Israel married the Father. we will marry Jesus.

Israel after the flesh rejected the Son and the Father. Israel after the Spirit receives both the Son and the Father.

No one today is son of Abraham nor of God after the flesh.

Jacob had two brides, one forced (Leah) and one preferred (Rachel).

Abraham had one wife and one handmaid, that of Sarah and of Hagar.

That's the only division God cares about in Scripture.

And Jerusalem of today is in bondage to Hagar, and are as her children, while Christians are free as Isaac born with promise after the Spirit.

Natural unbelieving Jews today, are counted as Ishmaelites to God.

Not true, God even says this is a falsehood. His Promises to Abraham will be fulfilled, in spite of Israel He says, He does it for His names sake.

True. The land promise will be kept to His friend Abraham, after His second coming.

At the cross all people were judged unbelievers, and Abraham was not there.

No person on earth believed Jesus as Lord and God at the cross, nor three days while buried.

They came with ointments to anoint His dead body, not to wait for His resurrection.

They are saved, as Zech. 13:8-9 says, 1/3 repent, thus 3.5 to 5 million Jess flee Judea unto Petra. That is what Paul meant by ALL Israel is saved, nit every Jews but Israel as a nation is preserved.

The Israelis nation today is not Israel of jacob nor of God.

If you want to speak numbers about how many Israelis have been, or will be saved or not, go ahead.

But they are not more important to god and prophecy of Scripture today, than how many Americans are become Christians.

 

[robert derrick]

This is simply nit true,

Yes it is. We are in the time of the nations, where all men are commanded to repent and believe the gospel, no matter what nation we are of.

There is only one nation that matters to God today: His holy nation and royal priesthood.

The Lord is coming again to receive His people unto Himself, and then he will pour out indignation and wrath upon all nations, whether Jew or Greek.

we are Raptured Pre Trib, we do not come back to earth with Jesus to remain, only fir our Wedding Feast (victory over the wicked).

I believe Scripture shows the marriage supper of the Lamb, is in the air with the Lord.

Only the Martyrs live and reign with Christ on this earth inglorious bodies for 1000 years,

Only the dead in Christ and those alive and remaining at His second appearing, will reign with Him on the earth in immortal bodies.

which means we go back to heaven, my guess is we finish off the New Jerusalem,

The builder and maker of that city is God.

because when it descends it is called the Bride of Christ, we are in it as it descends.

Sure, why not. Scripture only says God and the Lamb will dwell therein among men.

You do not understand the Kingdom Age at all it seems brother.

I see some of your understanding of it, and disagree.

You have no idea what this means.

I said what it means with Scripture for why.

You just disagree.

I must tell you, that Jesus personally revealing Himself to you in a time of trauma, does not in any way mean you are now the judge of all doctrine of Christ.

Rev. 11 is ONLY ABOUT the Two-witnesses ministry. So, John is being shown the parameters of the Two-witnesses with his measuring sticks.

If the two witnesses are the only remaining Christians of God's temple on earth, then true.

However, Paul speaks of we that remain and are alive at His appearing, in a manner that suggests more than just two.

Basically, he is telling them the Two-witnesses have only come to witness unto Israel, NOT to the Gentiles (Just like Jesus' ministry).

Not after there is no more Jew nor Greek in the eyes of the risen God of Israel.

God will never cease to command that all men to repent, no matter what flesh and nationality.

Rev. 11:1 And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.(Jews only)

Adding to scripture is not good.

2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not;(Do not preach or minister unto the Gentiles)

The only time the Lord ever said to leave someone alone, was unbelieving Jews.

Even at the last hour of judgment, the gospel will be preached from the air to all men:

And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,

Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months. 3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

Malachi 4:5-6 says Elijah will be sent back BEFORE the DOTL (1260) to turn Israel back unto God.

John did to the Jews only,

If Elijah does personally come to earth again, then he will be preaching the gospel of Christ to all men, as well as turning the Israel of God and body of Christ back to spiritual purity, and doing righteousness as He is righteous.

They preach repentance to the Jews who Flee Judea,

Interpreting by your own interpretations, and teaching by your own doctrine.

...unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people.

Not unto them Jews only on earth. The angel is not preaching the gospel in coded tongue, that only Jews can decipher.

Only Jews could enter into the Temple, the Gentile had a Court yard they could enter.

True, when there was a temple of God made with hands, which did not include Herod's. The last such temple was in the time of Haggai.

That is where the Wailing wall is today, none of the Temple is still standing.

True. And if there is another temple made with wicked hands, that are spiritually Sodom and Egypt, Scripture certainly doesn't call it the temple of God.

More likely it is called the temple of the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.

The Gentiles were grafted in, but they ARE NOT Israel.

Yes, we are the Israel of God, and Israel after the flesh is not. We are also the children of Abraham, the green olive tree of Jacob, and the tabernacle of David.

Not to mention the sons of God and the brethren of the risen God of Israel, our Lord Jesus Christ.

Now, if you think there is some other 'Israel' so special out there, then you really do think a whole lot of your own prophecies.

In Rev.14 the 144,000 have the Fathers name in their forehead. We marry Jesus.

We are already married to Jesus, who is now our Head.

144,000 in Rev 7 is all them sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, and in Rev 14 is all them bodily resurrected.

Israel are blinded

No Israel is blind, except unbelieving Israelis, which are Israel after the flesh only.

The Lord is not coming again for the Jews, but for His people. (John 14)

ALL Israel will be saved.

When the last believer in Christ Jesus is left this earth, before it is dissolved.

You conflating Israel and the Church is just wring headed.

It has more Scripture to it, than dividing the body of Christ prophetically between Jews and other natural people.

If you do not understand it, leave it be.

If you don't like being disagreed with, you let others alone.

WRONG, the Rapture is pre trib. I do not trust anyone on eschatology who does not understand the Pre Trib Rapture, its too simple and basic to miss tbh.

I understand there are plenty of traditional Christians, that do not make difference between the tribulation wrath of man upon the saints, that purify them, beginning with Abel, and the tribulation and wrath of God upon the wicked, that punishes them.

You are in error, it would take all day to show you in scriptures everything you are in error on. That is on you, because you of course think you understand it all but understand very little brother.

I.e. you never address anything specifically.

Right, he's just a Politician who bring is a Jewish high priest who demands Beast worship, like Jason did via Antiochus over 2100 years ago.

I believe he will be a Syrian born Jew, that becomes a saved Christian, and departs from the apostles' doctrine to preach his own gospel. He will be given specific power from the Dragon to seduce other Christians, as well as lying wonders to convert them of other religions, whether Jews or Muslims, to his own Christian religion.

And he will make war doctrinally, spiritually, and bodily with the saints and elect of God, who do not follow him as Christ Himself come again in the flesh.

You will see what you get to heaven that I w correct on nigh 100 percent of what I say.

One thing is for sure. Jesus visiting you personally in your hour of traumatic need, did not put that in your mind.

That's all yours.

He came to you for the good, and you've turned it into a pride-trip.

Knowledge puffeth up, but charity edifieth.

 

[ewq1938]

The First Resurrection does nut have to all happen at the sane time, you can have a FIRST FOOTBALL game of the year and it has FOUR QUARTERS, you can understand this but can't understand the First Resurrection doesn't have to happen all at the same time !!

It does happen at the same time as "the dead in Christ rise first".

 

[Ronald D Milam]

It does happen at the same time as "the dead in Christ rise first".

The Pre Trib Rapture is the FIRST RESURRECTION, The Martyrs of Rev. 20:4 are ALSO a part of the FIRST RESURRECTION. They happen 7 years apart. God can't help it if you and others can't understand there are only 2 Resurrections, the First is about those of faith, the 2nd is about those not of the faith. God has no TIME LIMITS, you and I do, we are constrained by tie because we were born in a Space Tine Continuum, God lives in all time at once.

The First Resurrection is the Pret Trib and those who died during the 70th week. It doesn't matter to God is we understand tat or not, He is not gong to change His plans.

 

[ewq1938]

The Pre Trib Rapture is the FIRST RESURRECTION

Rev 20 proves that it is not since the first res happens AFTER the mark is refused not before it.

 

[Ronald D Milam]

Rev 20 proves that it is not since the first res happens AFTER the mark is refused not before it.

You have zero comprehension skills.

 

[ewq1938]

You have zero comprehension skills.

No, that is something you have an issue with which is why you don't understand why you have disproven pretrib.

 

[Timtofly]

No, that is something you have an issue with which is why you don't understand why you have disproven pretrib.

He is correct that the rapture is both pre-trib and the first resurrection out of Adam's dead corruptible flesh.

The Resurrection in Revelation 20:4 and those beheaded are not the resurrection of the church. Only those beheaded during Satan's 42 months of AoD are resurrected after Armageddon. Otherwise they would have been resurrected with the 2 witnesses earlier in the morning before the battle of Armageddon.

Whoever claims the 2 witnesses are during the 6th Trumpet woe, don't seem to understand that the 7 Thunders happen before the 2 witnesses, and after the 6th Trumpet/2nd woe.

Revelation 11:14 is not a chronological statement. It is a literary device to put one back on track with the narrative. The second woe was past before the 7 Thunders.

"The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly."

The 2 witnesses are part of the third woe.

There may not even be a third woe, if Satan is not given 42 months. That is the third woe. The 7th Trumpet is the declaration of victory and completion.

 

[robert derrick]

To which I made my reply, the REST OF THE DEAD means the wicked at the 2nd Resurrection.

True. and the just that come to the Lord during His earthly reign. They will be found written in His book of life.

Yes, the Wicked are resurrected 1000 years after the 2nd Coming. But that has zero to do with the Pre Trib Rapture of the Church,

True.

nor the Martyrs raised after Jesus' Second Coming.

That's the rest of the dead, and there won't be martyrs during His reign.

Murdered Christians maybe, but not martyrs. The King and His resurrected rulers won't allow that. Nor wars between nations.

Also, there is no difference between the murdered dead in Christ, and those dying of natural causes.

Dead bodies are dead bodies, no matter how they came to be dead.

Mohammed promotes martyred for warfare, and we see where that kind of bogus ideology gets a religion.

Those not Raptured Pre Trib can still repent,

But they won't, as Scripture says, once God's great tribulation and wrath starts on earth, after resurrecting all His saints into the air with Himself.

all they have to do is accept Jesus by FAITH ALONE,

Faith alone is dead. OSAS false.

like we do now,

Not me.

then most or many will be killed by the Anti-Christ (Martyrs), some will be caught up in Gods Wrath,

Now you've started contradicting Scripture to teach your stuff.

That personal visit from Jesus, does not entitle you to do that.

The only thing saints will be caught up into at that time, will be the air with the Lord.

bad weather kills Christian people today, the Asteroid will kill some who have repented, no doubt.

There won't be any Christians on earth, once the church alive and remaining on earth, is caught up into the air.

Then the Lord's tribulation and wrath upon earth begins. Not before.

There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth to all of those not ready for the Pre Trib rapture.

True. Especially hypocrites naming the name of Christ and refusing to depart from iniquity.

That goes for me and anyone else on earth.

The First Resurrection does nut have to all happen at the sane time, you can have a FIRST FOOTBALL game of the year and it has FOUR QUARTERS, you can understand this but can't understand the First Resurrection doesn't have to happen all at the same time !!

So you say.

Scripture does speak of a 'phased in' first resurrection.

That's man's ideas, to try and make a triangulated doctrine fit into a trapezoidal hole.

The Pre Trib is a fact, as a matter of fact I do n9t trust ANYONES Eschatology,

Neither do I. I only trust Scripture's eschatology of these last days, that have been since the days of the apostles.

Pre trib is true: prior to the great tribulation and wrath of God to punish the wicked on the earth, He will first resurrect the dead bodies of His people, and catch up them alive from off the earth into the air with Him.

But the ongoing great tribulation and wrath of man upon the saints, begun with Cain slaying Abel, will remain on earth, until that first bodily resurrection of the righteous in Christ Jesus.

That will be during the reign of the last antichrist rising on the earth, whenever that is.

The first resurrection is God first resurrecting His people, when He appears again in the air above the earth.