Confusion about the Law.

[Happy Trails]

Actually, I don't, lol.


Actually, I refer to it as Resurrection Day. The only non-Biblical aspect of it that I adhere to is I don't nail the date of the Passover as the time I remember the Lord's role as the Passover Lamb.


Christmas holds no spiritual significance to me. It's a fun time of year when I reflect on memories of good times at Christmas while growing up.


Thank you for telling me I do what I don't do. The only legitimate accusation you could bring against me is I do not commomerate the Lord within the Mosaic festival of appointed times. And I told you why I do not feel compelled, as a matter of binding law, to do so.


I'm becoming more and more convinced that Babylon is the world financial system, not the Roman Catholic church and it's abhorrent practices as corrupt as it most certainly is.

You are claiming to be a Christian and denying the value of the appointed times. Unless you are entirely socially isolated and engage in NO religious observances, your inference is that you observe the same things as all other modern Christians. You may change the name of one, you may be less enthusiastic about another. That does not change the fact that you are arguing AGAINST obedience.

Matthew 5:19

 

[Happy Trails]

It can, actually. And it does come from the Bible and is not "from the pit of hell".

Even you acknowledge that we don't have to obey the various laws of animal sacrifice and the time table in which those sacrifices were offered. And that's because those laws were fulfilled, one time for all time for those who have accepted Christ's blood and body as fulfillment of those lawful requirements. To God's complete and total satisfaction such that no further action of law is required regarding those. So don't go saying 'I don't have to obey it' isn't Biblical and comes from the pit of hell. It's right in the pages of our own Bibles.

The reason there are no sacrifices is because there is no Temple. The Temple is the only place a sacrifice can be made. Paul offered a sacrifice there when he made his Nazarite vow. When the temple is rebuilt, sacrifices will resume.

The sacrifices went from shadows of Messiah to memorials of Messiah.

The blood of bulls and goats never had the capacity to take away sin. They only served as reminders that the debt was owed and that Messiah would pay it.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

The reason there are no sacrifices is because there is no Temple.

No. Hebrews 10 says they are not necessary anymore.

 

[Happy Trails]

I'm told there are 618.
But we don't have to literally keep all 618 because most simply do not apply to us.

So this is not a matter of keeping all the law vs. not keeping all the law. It's a matter of which laws we are to keep, and which ones we don't have to.

You are right. It is NOT a matter of keeping ALL the laws. It's more a matter of what I said in the original post. The observance of the days decreed by men for their gods should not be observed. That is the equivalent of worshiping that god. That is putting another god in the face of YHVH. It is obeying the decrees of that god. Romans 6:15, Matthew 7:23

If you don't go to church on Sunday and observe Christmas and Easter, then none of this ever applied to you. You implied that you were a Christian who observed all those things and was defending them.

If you DON'T observe them, I don't know why you are defending them.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

If you don't go to church on Sunday and observe Christmas and Easter, then none of this ever applied to you. You implied that you were a Christian who observed all those things and was defending them.

If you DON'T observe them, I don't know why you are defending them.

I'm defending the freedom of the Christian to commemorate Jesus the Passover Lamb anytime, anywhere, but certainly not in conjunction with pagan practices. What day you choose to celebrate Christ is not in and of itself a pagan practice.

Don't get me wrong about the Catholics and their supposed authority to change things. I'm sickened by the Catholic church and what it has done to Christianity. They literally outlawed the law and then instituted their own lawful observances. They are to the church what the Samaritans were to the Israelites. The only thing I can defend about what they have done is Christians are indeed set free from having to only worship in the narrow specified times of the law. That's all. Beyond that I consider what they've done in the church as bad or worse than what Jeroboam did to Israel.

 

[Happy Trails]

No. Hebrews 10 says they are not necessary anymore.

They were NEVER "necessary." They never removed a single sin. They were reminders that the debt was owed. They became a memorial that Messiah paid the price.

Christmas dinner is not necessary. It is a memorial.

People have the desire to get together and celebrate things about their chosen god.

YHVH has laid out HOW he wants to be worshiped. He does NOT want to be worshiped in the manner decreed by men for THEIR gods.

He says, "I want it done this way at this time."

If a person chooses to NOT observe any day, he will not be cursed. That is what "redeemed from the curse of the Law" means.

But, if a person chooses to have a celebration for a god, YHVH says that observing the times and rituals of other gods and doing it to honor him is an abomination. That is whole point I am trying to make in this thread.

No one has to be perfect. But, observing the days and rituals of pagan gods and attaching Jesus to them is EXACTLY what YHVH said not to do.

Sunday, Christmas and Easter are pagan rituals that were co-opted by the Romans. Jesus said not to do them because they are the opposite of loving God. Christians love to cite "love God and love people" as the only 2 Commandments. Loving God is obeying his Commandments. He says that about 40 times. Loving God is NOT attaching his Name to pagan festivals. That is an abomination to him.

That is the sum of the topic of this thread.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

You may change the name of one, you may be less enthusiastic about another. That does not change the fact that you are arguing AGAINST obedience.

Some obediences are simply not required anymore. Even you agree with that. You just disagree on which ones are not required anymore.

 

[Happy Trails]

I'm defending the freedom of the Christian to commemorate Jesus the Passover Lamb anytime, anywhere, but certainly not in conjunction with pagan practices. What day you choose to celebrate Christ is not in and of itself a pagan practice.

Don't get me wrong about the Catholics and their supposed authority to change things. I'm sickened by the Catholic church and what it has done to Christianity. They literally outlawed the law and then instituted their own lawful observances. They are to the church what the Samaritans were to the Israelites. The only thing I can defend about what they have done is Christians are indeed set free from having to only worship in the narrow specified times of the law. That's all. Beyond that I consider what they've done in the church as bad or worse than what Jeroboam did to Israel.

I defend everyone's right to do whatever they want.

However, claiming that nothing bad will come from performing pagan rituals and feasts and attaching Jesus to them is an entirely different matter.

That is exactly the topic of Matthew 7:21-23.

They claim to know Jesus. But they don't obey Him. He says He doesn't know them because they did not obey the Law. If we claim that Jesus is our Waster, then we should walk as He walked. How did Jesus walk? He obeyed His Father.

 

[Happy Trails]

Some obediences are simply not required anymore. Even you agree with that. You just disagree on which ones are not required anymore.

NONE of them are "required." But, none of them should be replaced with pagan rituals on the days decreed by men for their gods.

The more you respond, the more I realize you have missed the point of the thread entirely.

For your benefit, I will repeat the summary:

-----------------------

The Law is the revelation that Jesus is who He says He is. He is revealed throughout the Law and the Prophets. (Luke 24:44)

The Law is the authentication of the Messiah. The Law is the documentation of the evidence for Jesus being Messiah. The Law is what Jesus came to fulfill. The more one knows about the Law, the more they know about Jesus. It is truly that simple.

The Law:
Observe THESE days, not THOSE days.
Eat THIS, not THAT.
Have sexual relations with THIS person, not THOSE persons.
Be honest and kind to everyone, including the heathens.

Romans 6:15 The Law I observe tells all who see me who my Master is. Am I obeying God's Law, like Jesus did? Or, am I observing man-made laws? One set of laws leads to death. The other leads to righteousness.

-------------------

1 John 2:4
He that saith, "I know him," and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

You are claiming to be a Christian and denying the value of the appointed times.

If you knew me better you'd know that I'm not denying the value of the appointed times. I'm denying the value that you are putting on them.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

The Law I observe tells all who see me who my Master is.

The irony of this is if a person is keeping the letter of the law it does indeed tell all who see who their master is. Just as keeping the law of Christ tells all who your master is. There is a difference. A BIG difference.

 

[Happy Trails]

If you knew me better you'd know that I'm not denying the value of the appointed times. I'm denying the value that you are putting on them.

Then, you are denying what Jesus said about them.

 

[Happy Trails]

The irony of this is if a person is keeping the letter of the law it does indeed tell all who see who their master is. Just as keeping the law of Christ tells all who your master is. There is a difference. A BIG difference.

How can the "Law of Christ" be any different than the Law His Father gave? John 12:49-50

Did Jesus ever disagree with His Father?

God defines loving him as obeying him.

Exodus 20:6, Deuteronomy 5:10, Deuteronomy 7:9, Deuteronomy 11:1, Deuteronomy 11:13, Deuteronomy 11:22, Deuteronomy 19:9, Deuteronomy 30:16.
Joshua 22:5, Nehemiah 1:5, John 14:15, John 14:21, John 14:31, John 15:10, 1 John 5:2-3, 2 John 1:6, John 8:38.

This is far from exhaustive. YHVH equates loving him to obeying him.

 

[Robert Gwin]

"Under the Law" means "subject to the curse of disobedience."

Jesus redeemed us from the curse. Now, we can only be blessed by obedience.

Loving God IS keeping his Commandments. If you don't love God, don't obey him.

That will be your witness about Jehovah.

You are 100% correct in what you have written here Happy, 100%. Yes we on occasion do bear testimony about that very fact found in the Bible at 1 John 5:3. So now all one needs to know is, what are God's commandments. Would you care to share a few, perhaps starting with what you might consider most important?

 

[bbyrd009]

Some people believe that Heaven is "a state of mind". But the Bible says that it is actually a place -- a region -- and within this region is a heavenly city -- the New Jerusalem -- which is a vast cubic city 1500 cubic miles in dimensions (1500 x 1500 x 1500). There are no cubic cities on earth, and neither are there any cities on earth with twelve foundations.

fwiw id stick with a tetragon,

lest you end up with eight corners
(image of two tetragons, because)
and 12,000 stadia, that might one day lead to…a better understanding

and we did a thread on the foundations here once; started it anyway, dunno if it got finished?…guess not
What is the new Jerusalem constructed out of

although one might start back at #47, @Helen ’s post. @amadeus had some good stuff in there too imo

 

[Happy Trails]

You are 100% correct in what you have written here Happy, 100%. Yes we on occasion do bear testimony about that very fact found in the Bible at 1 John 5:3. So now all one needs to know is, what are God's commandments. Would you care to share a few, perhaps starting with what you might consider most important?

I summarized them at the end of the opening post for the thread:

The Law:
Observe THESE days, not THOSE days.
Eat THIS, not THAT.
Have sexual relations with THIS person, not THOSE persons.
Be honest and kind to everyone, including the heathens.

If I don't observe ANY religious holidays, I am not cursed. (Jesus redeemed me from the curse. Deuteronomy 11:26-28)
If I observe pagan holidays after "accepting Jesus" (we can certainly discuss that as a separate issue) I may be saved, but I am NOT rewarded in the world to come. I can't enter the city and see Jesus on the throne. (Revelation 22:14) In fact, that is what makes me the adulterer who cannot enter the city. (Revelation 22:15)
If I obey YHVH I am blessed in this life, I am taught by the Ruach HaQodesh in this life, and I am rewarded in the world to come. It's the trifecta of righteousness.

It doesn't matter if you think YHVH is Jesus, or not, or if Michael is Jesus, or not, or if YHVH is an octopus, or not. We are judged according to our works, NOT about what we think. Matthew 7:21-23, 2 Corinthians 5:10, Revelation 20:12-13.

NONE of us has the capacity to understand the depth of the mind and essence of YHVH. So, why argue about it?

The ONLY thing he cares about is, "did you show your love to me through your obedience?"

Because he knows our hearts, he can see a person who hates him going through the motions. He saw that a lot. He still sees it.

Dead works are those that honor dead gods. Living works honor the One True Elohim, the Living God of Israel. The days you observe tell me who your God is. More importantly, they tell HIM who your God is.

"Guard the Sabbath" and "love YHVH" are the 2 most repeated Commandments in the Bible. The second one is invariably coupled with "obeying the Commandments."

Christians constantly make philosophical arguments about why they don't have to obey YHVH. Paul warned us about that in the second chapter of Colossians. The reason is their lack of nuance. The only reason they do anything is "does it get ya saved?" I can't tell you how many times I have heard Christians say "keeping the Commandments doesn't save you!"

I reply, "Of course not. The Commandments are what a saved person does to grow spiritually and to become sanctified, or set apart, from the world. The world goes to church on Sunday, The world celebrates Christmas. The world celebrates Easter. If you love the world, the love of the Father is not in you. 1 John 2:15

Rather than be in love with the idea of knowing the Father better, they search for excuses why they can still get into heaven while being completely rebellious. Rather than being led by the Holy Spirit to search the depths of the mind of the Creator and his Image, they choose to stay at the entry level of Christianity. They imagine they know what the last 25% of the Bible means without having a clue about the first 75%.

The Torah is college for Christians. Almost all of them are in the first grade and their hubris keeps them away from real understanding. That's why they think they are going to spend eternity in heaven. They think Grandma is looking down on little Johnny playing football. It's sad. They haven't actually read the Bible. They only know conveniently numbered sound bites that they twist to their own destruction. 2 Peter 3:16

This thread is a perfect example. Christianese platitudes and flawed logic. They have been convinced by the Babylonian leadership that disobeying God is what God wants them to do. It is the mystery of iniquity. It is the mystery of "disobeying God is how you gain his favor."

 

[Ziggy]

The ONLY thing he cares about is, "did you show your love to me through your obedience?"

Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Jhn 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

You can't force someone to believe anything if they don't want to.
You can't coerce someone into having faith in something or someone if they don't want to.
You can't threaten someone to be obedient and have it be out of love.

I show my love through loving, not because I am told to, but because that's who I am.
You can't make people love. It has to come from the heart. It has to be already in there growing.

If loving your neighbour is through "obedience" , is it genuine?

Just thinking..
Hugs

 

[quietthinker]

Confusion about the Law.
I'm not confused....just don't tell me what to do.

 

[Enoch111]

It doesn't matter if you think YHVH is Jesus, or not, or if Michael is Jesus, or not, or if YHVH is an octopus, or not. We are judged according to our works, NOT about what we think.

This is totally false and misleading. What you believe is what you think, and if you do not believe what the Bible says about Jesus, it will not matter what you do or do not do.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

They think Grandma is looking down on little Johnny playing football.

She's not?