Could the mark of the beast actually be a literal mark?

[Timtofly]

I'm not so sure about that. Defiance certainly. But throughout scripture regarding the last days, there are two themes running side by side... Worship, and deception.
"Take care that no man deceive you". Christians can be deceived. Can you not foresee a situation whereby a counterfeit form of global Christianity deceived the world into subscribing to it's doctrines re worship? Worship in this sense I mean as full surrender. Submission. And that's what the seal of God is all about... Surrender to the full lordship of Christ, which enables Christ to create in you His character.
But there will be a vast majority in the last days who will not, but who surrender to the authority of the beast. They will be deceived into receiving the mark because they sincerely believe it is the right thing to do. It will not be open deliberate rebellion. They will conscientiously believe they are correct... They receive the mark in their foreheads. Others however will know they are doing it wrong... Against their conscience. They may accept the mark in order to work... In order to eat... Have a roof over their heads... To look after and provide for their families. They receive the mark in the hands.

The confusion is based on the presupposition that the church is going to be here during the 42 months given to Satan and the FP.

Only the 2 witnesses will be here for those 42 months. The choice to follow Christ is marked by the act of getting one's head chopped off. That is how choosing life is described. John does not even claim Christ and the 144k are here during these 42 months. The mark comes after the Trumpets and Thunders. The mark comes after the 7th Trumpet has already begun sounding. Chapter 13 is an interruption of the 7th Trumpet.

To make a profession of belief today does not naturally make one choose between being marked or beheaded. Yet that choice will determine one's resurrection in Revelation 20:4 or standing at the GWT 1000 years later. Neither outcomes define the eternal state of those who accept Christ as their Salvation at this moment of time. We currently do not have to be beheaded to be part of those resurrected in Revelation 20:4.

 

[Marty fox]

If it is unforgivable, it no longer matters. Many humans have become reprobate, past the point of no return. God removed any choice to repent. Having a mark on your forehead is Satan's way to be proud about such a reprobate condition. God indicates, He puts that mark on the body, as God removes that person's name from the Lamb's book of life.

Satan nor any human can place this literal mark. They would not know when God removes a name. God knows the choice in one's heart, and that choice removes one's name. So when God sees the choice of the heart, God removes the name from the Lamb's book of life, and then places the mark so that all on earth can see the choice of one's heart. It will not be an accidental choice. It will be between each individual person and God.


Currently we choose to let the Holy Spirit control us. That choice at the time of the mark will be the eternal rejection of God. To accept God will be to literally have one's head cut off. That is the only act of faith, not knowing what is on the other side of that act. Some claim they can hide from God and that decision to choose being beheaded or receiving the mark. No one can hide from God and that choice.


The only way to be resurrected after having one's head cut off is to get one's head chopped off. Not dying at all is not the same thing as being beheaded. Revelation 20:4 is not Paul's rapture and change of dead flesh from corruption to incorruption. It is explicit in saying those beheaded. One literally has to be beheaded to fit that description. One has to physically die to get rid of Adam's flesh and blood.

Lets think about this so if you are beheaded for Christ you can be resurrected in Rev 20:4 but if shot dead for Christ you won't?

 

[Timtofly]

Personally I believe that if you can buy and sell... You have a roof over your head... Then that is evidence you have indeed surrendered to the terms of the mark. But that card or implant out whatever is used to coordinate finance and everyday living, are merely the inducements to your submission and acceptance of the mark. The final inducement is the threat of death. Before that no doubt there will be fines, and jail, threats, bribes, pressure from family and friends. But the mark itself? In scripture the mark is set in contrast to keeping the Commandments of God.
KJV Revelation 14:9-12
9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
It's the mark of the beast. First, find out who the beast is... Then ask the beast what the mark, sign, or seal (all synonyms) of his authority is.

The choice though, not to take the mark, leads to being beheaded. That is the act of faith. Putting your eternal life into the hands of God, and no longer trusting this flesh to save you. It is not about providing daily needs if one's head is chopped off.

Those who take the mark will need to be active in the economy to survive.

 

[Timtofly]

Lets think about this so if you are beheaded for Christ you can be resurrected in Rev 20:4 but if shot dead for Christ you won't?

Where does John state one is shot dead for Christ? Does one have to be shot dead to be a Christian now? It is John who declares who is resurrected.

No where is described a multiple choice Salvation experience when the mark is recieved.

 

[Marty fox]

Yes, this is true, and you don't know what I'm ex- from also. Just the same, I counsel that we accept the Word as we find it, and when we find ourselves having to skirt the meanings of plainly written texts, that we should think instead about changing our ideas.

That has been my practice for quite some time now, and I've always found clarity, when I can identify and let go of wrong ideas.

Invariably I have found that a correct understanding of the Bible embraces it's plain statements for just what they say.

Some things in Scripture were written for certain times.

Hebrews 4:7 KJV
Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.

In that day, it will be true as the angels will announce, if you take the mark, or worship the image, you are condemned. How many times do we read in the Revelation, and they repented not . . . ?

Much love!

I'm not saying that what i'm saying is that it can't be literal

Where does John state one is shot dead for Christ? Does one have to be shot dead to be a Christian now? It is John who declares who is resurrected.

No where is described a multiple choice Salvation experience when the mark is recieved.

What I'm saying is that what matters is that you die for Christ not how you die for Christ

 

[Brakelite]

This all sounds about right to me, only, I think "Christian worship" will be over by that time. I'm thinking a "post-christianity" culture, with the exception of Christendom being rolled up into the harlot like every other religion.



I don't know, I'm going with the prophetic narrative. Right now God calls us to faith. But there will be a difference in that time. His prophets will be prophesying in Israel. His 144,000 will be going through the towns of Israel (my understanding). The witnesses will be striking the earth with whatever plagues they want. People will be blaspheming God for the plagues of His wrath, repenting not, defiant, knowing by then that this truly IS God judging them. And yes, angels announcing the Gospel, as God has ALWAYS had His witness in this world proclaiming truth.

That's an interesting idea about Armageddon. I'll stew on that awhile.

Much love!

To much focus on Israel. The powers of prophecy in the last days are not local literal powers. The powers of prophecy since the time of Christ slowly grew from local literal powers into global spiritual powers. The powers now in the world directing proceedings are spiritual and they are global.
KJV Revelation 13:1-3
1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.
2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.
3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.

Who, or what is this beast? It's a composite right? The original beasts that now comprise this Antichrist beast are not literal nations or kingdoms, not any more. But the philosophy, the pagan doctrines and practises, continue on in this latter day Antichrist. But let us remember God is consistent in his symbolism. The beast of Revelation 13 is a kingdom. But a global kingdom. And it's not just a political kingdom, it's spiritual as well. A union of church and state. It has 7 heads. Four of those heads are revealed in the description. The heads are a portrayal of her heritage. The first 4 of the seven are Babylon, Media-Persia, Greece, and Rome.
KJV Daniel 7:12
12 As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time.
Their lives are too be found in this beast that descended from them, incorporated their beliefs into her own, only now on a global scale. The other 3 heads are Catholicism, atheism, and apostate Protestantism. Those last 3 are the powers now controlling the world, and combined will comprise Babylon the Great. Israel as a local literal nation will be simply one of the many nations that surrender to the Antichrist power, headquartered in Rome, through the global influence of American Protestantism that forms an image to the union of church and state of the dark ages. That is what the great Reset... The NWO... Is all about. To reduce mankind to serfdom where everybody is completely reliant on government for everything. The Catholic Church already owns nearly every corporation you can think of. Including the global monetary system. Soon she will own your house and your car and you. If you accept her mark. Otherwise she will abandon you to starvation and homelessness. And finally death.

 

[marks]

I'm not saying that what i'm saying is that it can't be literal

I thought you said that if it were a literal mark, that would contradict other Scripture. Did I misunderstand? If so I apolgize!

Much love!

 

[amigo de christo]

I thought you said that if it were a literal mark, that would contradict other Scripture. Did I misunderstand? If so I apolgize!

Much love!

Mark , i am gonna leave us all with a quick reminder . And though folks know it , bear with it anyway .
Let none take the rfid chip into their body , or take any kind of electromagnetic rfid ink tattoe upon their body .
For our body is not our own . Sell not and give not that which is CHRISTS unto such a vile beast system .

 

[Timtofly]

I'm not saying that what i'm saying is that it can't be literal


What I'm saying is that what matters is that you die for Christ not how you die for Christ

Revelation 20:4 states it matters who is resurrected:

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.


What is listed as physical? The choice is listed as one's head or the mark on the forehead or hand.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

I didn’t say that the saved will I’m talking about the unsaved.

People also hear about the gospel and reject it and then accept it later on in life. The point is these scriptures below guarantee salvation to all who accept.

Romans 10:13
for, "Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved."

Romans 10:9
If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved

John 3:16
For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life

1John 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

So are they truth or not?

Do you believe in them or not?

None of them say unless you have the mark of the beast.

Jesus stated that blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is the only unforgivable sin which is the constant rejection of Jesus because the Holy Spirit draws us to Jesus thus the mark of the beast has to be unrepentant devotion to the beast.

Only the scriptures can interpret the true meaning of the the scriptures

The whole of scripture is greater than the sum of its individual passages. You can not comprehend the bible as a whole without comprehending its individual passages and you cannot comprehend its individual passages without comprehending the bible as a whole. The individual passages can never be interpreted in a way as to conflict the whole of scripture

You rlast line is a complete tautology and impossible to attain! If y0u cannot comprehend the parts aprt from comprehending the whole and you cannot comprehend the whole apart from comprehending the parts- you can never comprehend anyof it. For according to yoru tautology- you cannot comprehend the parts until you comprehend the whole and you cannot comprehend the whole until you comprehend th e parts.

I am not arguing about salvation. I agree 100% with your verses (though given your last line I am surprised you would cite individual passages),

The unsaved are unsaved and in the time of teh antichrist they will take the mark. They are not unsaved because of the mark, they are unsaved because they have not trusted in Christ
!

Remember this from Thesselonians:

2 Thessalonians 2:10-12
King James Version

10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

In those days, GOD will send a delusion and cause pewople to believe a lie who are damned!

BTW your understanding of the unpardonable sin of Matt. 12 is very very wrong.

 

[Marty fox]

You rlast line is a complete tautology and impossible to attain! If y0u cannot comprehend the parts aprt from comprehending the whole and you cannot comprehend the whole apart from comprehending the parts- you can never comprehend anyof it. For according to yoru tautology- you cannot comprehend the parts until you comprehend the whole and you cannot comprehend the whole until you comprehend th e parts.

I am not arguing about salvation. I agree 100% with your verses (though given your last line I am surprised you would cite individual passages),

The unsaved are unsaved and in the time of teh antichrist they will take the mark. They are not unsaved because of the mark, they are unsaved because they have not trusted in Christ
!

Remember this from Thesselonians:

2 Thessalonians 2:10-12
King James Version

10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

In those days, GOD will send a delusion and cause pewople to believe a lie who are damned!

BTW your understanding of the unpardonable sin of Matt. 12 is very very wrong.

What that statement is saying is that a bible ve

You rlast line is a complete tautology and impossible to attain! If y0u cannot comprehend the parts aprt from comprehending the whole and you cannot comprehend the whole apart from comprehending the parts- you can never comprehend anyof it. For according to yoru tautology- you cannot comprehend the parts until you comprehend the whole and you cannot comprehend the whole until you comprehend th e parts.

I am not arguing about salvation. I agree 100% with your verses (though given your last line I am surprised you would cite individual passages),

The unsaved are unsaved and in the time of teh antichrist they will take the mark. They are not unsaved because of the mark, they are unsaved because they have not trusted in Christ
!

Remember this from Thesselonians:

2 Thessalonians 2:10-12
King James Version

10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

In those days, GOD will send a delusion and cause pewople to believe a lie who are damned!

BTW your understanding of the unpardonable sin of Matt. 12 is very very wrong.

What the statement is saying is that a blibical verse can't be interpreted in a way to contradict the message of the bible

 

[marks]

Mark , i am gonna leave us all with a quick reminder . And though folks know it , bear with it anyway .
Let none take the rfid chip into their body , or take any kind of electromagnetic rfid ink tattoe upon their body .
For our body is not our own . Sell not and give not that which is CHRISTS unto such a vile beast system .

I'm not planning to get any implants or any tattoos! I hate those things!

Much love!

 

[Ronald Nolette]

What that statement is saying is that a bible ve


What the statement is saying is that a blibical verse can't be interpreted in a way to contradict the message of the bible

And I fully agree with that. Are you implying I have contradicted the message of Scripture?

 

[Marty fox]

And I fully agree with that. Are you implying I have contradicted the message of Scripture?

I’m just saying that a literal physical mark view contradicts the message of the scriptures

 

[Timtofly]

I’m just saying that a literal physical mark view contradicts the message of the scriptures

How will this non-literal mark be evident to those merchants who are required to check for this mark?

 

[Marty fox]

How will this non-literal mark be evident to those merchants who are required to check for this mark?

It’s about being apart of the community for example if in Rome you didn’t say hail Cesar you weren’t apart of the community.

This is why in Acts chapter 2 the new church sold their possessions and shared and took care of each other as they were outcast from Jerusalem.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

I’m just saying that a literal physical mark view contradicts the message of the scriptures

How so when the words inspired to be written say it is a physical mark on the forehead or right hand. there is one overriding them of Scripture. And within that theme there are many messages.

 

[Marty fox]

How so when the words inspired to be written say it is a physical mark on the forehead or right hand. there is one overriding them of Scripture. And within that theme there are many messages.

We’re does the bible actually say that it’s a physical mark?

Reread my post that start of this thread and see the examples I gave in Exodus and Ezekiel.

 

[Timtofly]

It’s about being apart of the community for example if in Rome you didn’t say hail Cesar you weren’t apart of the community.

This is why in Acts chapter 2 the new church sold their possessions and shared and took care of each other as they were outcast from Jerusalem.

Satan went around the whole world making sure each community was faithful to each other? How does that make sense?

When did Satan get into ethics going around teaching people to behave good towards each other. Seems more plausible the mark is physical, than Satan going around teaching and enforcing ethical standards on humanity.

 

[amigo de christo]

Satan went around the whole world making sure each community was faithful to each other? How does that make sense?

When did Satan get into ethics going around teaching people to behave good towards each other. Seems more plausible the mark is physical, than Satan going around teaching and enforcing ethical standards on humanity.

My advice is , let none touch the nasty thing . Take not the rfid chip nor the electromagnetic rfid ink tattoe .
BUT MOST WILL SURELY DO THIS in the coming days . Not this lamb . They can keep it . Touch not the unclean thing .