Could the mark of the beast actually be a literal mark?

[marks]

What is the mark of the beast?

A literal mark on the forehead or right hand.

Romans 1:28 KJV
And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

These God gave over to their corruption.

2 Thessalonians 2:10-12 KJV
10) And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11) And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12) That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

In these, God will specifically mess with their minds so they won't be able to think right. Strong delusion is literally a working of error. And to the purpose that they will be condemned. No turning back.

John 12:37-41 KJV
37) But though he had done so many miracles before them, yet they believed not on him:
38) That the saying of Esaias the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spake, Lord, who hath believed our report? and to whom hath the arm of the Lord been revealed?
39) Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again,
40) He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.
41) These things said Esaias, when he saw his glory, and spake of him.

Revelation 14:9-11 KJV
9) And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
10) The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
11) And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

The people will be warned, they will not be ignorant. Though this will not be an easy thing.

Like CS Lewis remarked, when the director walks out on the stage, it means the show is over. Jesus is coming. The people of the world have to give a final answer. For those who think to delay, they will find themselves in front of the image of the beast, commanded to worship it, or face death. Those who worship will be marked, and let go, their final answer a living death into eternal death. Those who refuse will be killed, entering into eternal life.

Much love!

 

[Brakelite]

If one is born again they will not take the Mark. The church will not be on earth to even consider taking the mark. I believe in eternal security ,m even for teh tribulation saints (which like the OT saints are not part of the church) but I could be wrong about the trib saints. I personally believe anyone who has received Christ during the tribulation will not take the mark, but I cannot be absolute on it. To me it is like a church saint openly denying Jesus. I just don't think once saved one can do that.

It the mark is literal, then it can be forced. Your can be held down while the mark is placed on you against your will. Which makes the entire concept of God's judgement upon those who received the mark an unjust farce.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Im not talking about Christians taking the mark I’m talking about non Christians. If someone takes the mark (if a literal mark) not knowing what exactly it is only to feed their family and then realizes what it is of course God would let them repent because He is the God of John 3:16.

If Paul could repent from persecuting the church then God would forgive them

Well given what Scriptures says abo0ut teh mark, gods mercy, foreknowledge etc. I am 100% convinced that NO ONE will take the mark ignorantly! We are talking about a unique and never to be repeated time in human history and the bible makes clear that the world will be commanded and an angel will warn the word as well as I am sure believers will try to warn some.

but God is very clear about eh consequences of taking the mark:

9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,

10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.


anyone who takes the mark without knowing is someone who would not get saved regardless. god 's desire is that none should perish and He will not lose one of His sheep.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

It the mark is literal, then it can be forced. Your can be held down while the mark is placed on you against your will. Which makes the entire concept of God's judgement upon those who received the mark an unjust farce.

Yes that is a possibility! but the passage in REv. 13:

16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

Teh word receive is in the aorist active subjunctive which means it is only a possibility and not forced. And from the rest of revelation we know many do not take the mark and die or go into hiding because of that refusal.

 

[Marty fox]

Well given what Scriptures says abo0ut teh mark, gods mercy, foreknowledge etc. I am 100% convinced that NO ONE will take the mark ignorantly! We are talking about a unique and never to be repeated time in human history and the bible makes clear that the world will be commanded and an angel will warn the word as well as I am sure believers will try to warn some.

but God is very clear about eh consequences of taking the mark:

9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,

10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.


anyone who takes the mark without knowing is someone who would not get saved regardless. god 's desire is that none should perish and He will not lose one of His sheep.

The point is that John 3:16 states that anyone who believes will be saved no matter what just like Paul who was persecuting the church. This tells us that the mark can't be literal but but a symbolic unrepentant devotion to the beast which is form of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit which Jesus taught us is the only unforgiveable sin.

Thus let the scriptures interpret the scriptures

 

[Ronald Nolette]

The point is that John 3:16 states that anyone who believes will be saved no matter what just like Paul who was persecuting the church. This tells us that the mark can't be literal but but a symbolic unrepentant devotion to the beast which is form of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit which Jesus taught us is the only unforgiveable sin.

Thus let the scriptures interpret the scriptures

And th esaved won't take the mark. it is a public declaration. Besides the Bible, there are other believers and an angel going on a global trip warning everyone agains the mark. Now in my own opinion, if one does not hear any warning from those three sources and takes the mark, they were not going to be saved anyway! God doesn't lose those that belong to Him.

 

[Marty fox]

And th esaved won't take the mark. it is a public declaration. Besides the Bible, there are other believers and an angel going on a global trip warning everyone agains the mark. Now in my own opinion, if one does not hear any warning from those three sources and takes the mark, they were not going to be saved anyway! God doesn't lose those that belong to Him.

I didn’t say that the saved will I’m talking about the unsaved.

People also hear about the gospel and reject it and then accept it later on in life. The point is these scriptures below guarantee salvation to all who accept.

Romans 10:13
for, "Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved."

Romans 10:9
If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved

John 3:16
For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life

1John 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

So are they truth or not?

Do you believe in them or not?

None of them say unless you have the mark of the beast.

Jesus stated that blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is the only unforgivable sin which is the constant rejection of Jesus because the Holy Spirit draws us to Jesus thus the mark of the beast has to be unrepentant devotion to the beast.

Only the scriptures can interpret the true meaning of the the scriptures

The whole of scripture is greater than the sum of its individual passages. You can not comprehend the bible as a whole without comprehending its individual passages and you cannot comprehend its individual passages without comprehending the bible as a whole. The individual passages can never be interpreted in a way as to conflict the whole of scripture

 

[marks]

So are they truth or not?

Do you believe in them or not?

None of them say unless you have the mark of the beast.

I believe them. And I also believe that those who accept the mark cannot be saved.

All who call upon the Name of the Lord shall be saved, and, no one who takes the mark or worships the image will be later saved. Both are true, and I don't see a contradiction between them.

In Romans 1, God gives some over to their sin. This means, before that, they were not just given over to their sin.

In 2 Thessalonians 2, some will have a strong delusion so that they will be condemned. God will break their minds so that they will believe the Man of Sin's lie, and not be saved.

I think it's pretty clear in Scripture that sometimes, the time comes when God stops offering His salvation to certain people. Giving them over to sin, and giving them a delusion, these are two ways that happens. There was Pharaoh, who, after hardening his own hard (wooden), God hardened it (stone).

Much love!

 

[Marty fox]

I believe them. And I also believe that those who accept the mark cannot be saved.

All who call upon the Name of the Lord shall be saved, and, no one who takes the mark or worships the image will be later saved. Both are true, and I don't see a contradiction between them.

In Romans 1, God gives some over to their sin. This means, before that, they were not just given over to their sin.

In 2 Thessalonians 2, some will have a strong delusion so that they will be condemned. God will break their minds so that they will believe the Man of Sin's lie, and not be saved.

I think it's pretty clear in Scripture that sometimes, the time comes when God stops offering His salvation to certain people. Giving them over to sin, and giving them a delusion, these are two ways that happens. There was Pharaoh, who, after hardening his own hard (wooden), God hardened it (stone).

Much love!

The only way they are not a contradiction if a matter of what the mark is.

If it’s a literal mark then it’s a contradiction if it’s symbolic of the mark on the forehead being devoted to the beast and the mark on the right hand doing the beast will then its not a contradiction.

The hardening means that God stops pursuing them He backs away and allows them to do what they want because of fee will that is the heart of the Farther

 

[marks]

If it’s a literal mark then it’s a contradiction if it’s symbolic of the mark on the forehead being devoted to the beast and the mark on the right hand doing the beast will then its not a contradiction.

I think it matters how we approach the Bible to read it. Without a clear indication to me that this is not an actual engraving or mark on the forehead or hand, I myself see it that way, by the words the passage uses.

I don't see any contradiction at all, as those who have the mark will be those who have already given in to the beast, in direct defiance of God. There won't be any mistakes, no misunderstandings, all who take the mark will know they are defying Him by worshiping the beast.

Being marked will be for people to see. God already knows the heart.

If it's not a literal mark, maybe it's the beast's mind control over the people's thoughts, producing motor control over their hands. Or it could be a permanent image of the devil stamped "in the mind's eye", they will always be seeing this image in their minds.

To be sure . . . I think it is a literal mark. My argument here is, If it's not, then who is the one to say what it really is? I think we've got 3 different theories right here, each in keeping with the substance of the text, if we are taking it symbolically.

Much love!

 

[Marty fox]

I think it matters how we approach the Bible to read it. Without a clear indication to me that this is not an actual engraving or mark on the forehead or hand, I myself see it that way, by the words the passage uses.

I don't see any contradiction at all, as those who have the mark will be those who have already given in to the beast, in direct defiance of God. There won't be any mistakes, no misunderstandings, all who take the mark will know they are defying Him by worshiping the beast.

Being marked will be for people to see. God already knows the heart.

If it's not a literal mark, maybe it's the beast's mind control over the people's thoughts, producing motor control over their hands. Or it could be a permanent image of the devil stamped "in the mind's eye", they will always be seeing this image in their minds.

To be sure . . . I think it is a literal mark. My argument here is, If it's not, then who is the one to say what it really is? I think we've got 3 different theories right here, each in keeping with the substance of the text, if we are taking it symbolically.

Much love!

We need to remember that there are ex satanist who have converted to Christianity.

I’m not just saying what I think and believe I’m showing what the bible teaches us by not contradicting itself

 

[Stumpmaster]

What is the mark of the beast?

If it is a literal mark would that contradict scripture?

I do not believe that the mark of the beast is a physical literal mark if it is then it contradicts scripture. Revelation says that who ever has the mark will perish. That means that they can’t repent.

Revelation 14:9-12

9 A third angel followed them and said in a loud voice: “If anyone worships the beast and its image and receives its mark on their forehead or on their hand, 10 they, too, will drink the wine of God’s fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. They will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb. 11 And the smoke of their torment will rise for ever and ever. There will be no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and its image, or for anyone who receives the mark of its name.” 12 This calls for patient endurance on the part of the people of God who keep his commands and remain faithful to Jesus.

It even says that the mark is forced upon them

Revelation 13:16-17

16 It also forced all people, great and small, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hands or on their foreheads, 17 so that they could not buy or sell unless they had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of its name.

Why can't they repent?

If it said that they won't repent that would make sense but not that they can't repent.

This scripture proves that people can repent.

Romans 10:13

13 for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved

The only unforgivable sin is the constant rejection of the Holy Spirit.

Matthew 12:31-32

31 And so I tell you, every kind of sin and slander can be forgiven, but blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. 32 Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.

If someone took the mark out of fear and then repented and died for rejecting it wouldn't God forgive them? I believe yes but that is not what it says in Revelation but the bible doesn’t contradict itself so that tells us that it can't be a physical mark.

I believe that the mark represents what you are devoted to (the mark on the forehead) and what you do (the mark on the hand) just like in these scriptures about what God told the Jews.

Exodus 13:9

9 This observance will be for you like a sign on your hand and a reminder on your forehead that this law of the Lord is to be on your lips. For the Lord brought you out of Egypt with his mighty hand

Exodus 13:16

16 And it will be like a sign on your hand and a symbol on your forehead that the Lord brought us out of Egypt with his mighty hand

The marks and seals of God were not physical on the people in the above verses in Exodus or these next verses.

Revelation 7:3

“Do not harm the land or the sea or the trees until we put a seal on the foreheads of the servants of our God.”

and Ezekiel 9:4

4 and said to him, “Go throughout the city of Jerusalem and put a mark on the foreheads of those who grieve and lament over all the detestable things that are done in it.

God looks at where the heart is at not a physical mark or a decision out of fear if they couldn‘t repent why do they still live? God also would not contradict himself if someone realized that they made a mistake and called out to him he would have compassion on them.

Romans 10:13

for, "Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved."


If God would forgive the people who physically killed Jesus why would he not forgive someone who received the mark? Lets not forget that God forgave the apostle Paul who was persecuting the church.

I think that this shows that the mark of the beast is not a physical mark but something much deeper.

I think that John told the 7 churches the number of the beast name so that they would know who it was in their day. I believe that it was Nero representing the empire of Rome as Nero s name equaled the number 666. Why would John tell a first century church the number if it was a 21st century beast?

More verses that are promised to us.

Romans 10:9
If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved


John 3:16
For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life


1John 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.


None of these verses add at the end unless you receive the mark of the beast.

Talk about fallacies of composition . . . almost the motherlode.

 

[Brakelite]

There won't be any mistakes, no misunderstandings, all who take the mark will know they are defying Him by worshiping the beast.

I'm not so sure about that. Defiance certainly. But throughout scripture regarding the last days, there are two themes running side by side... Worship, and deception.
"Take care that no man deceive you". Christians can be deceived. Can you not foresee a situation whereby a counterfeit form of global Christianity deceived the world into subscribing to it's doctrines re worship? Worship in this sense I mean as full surrender. Submission. And that's what the seal of God is all about... Surrender to the full lordship of Christ, which enables Christ to create in you His character.
But there will be a vast majority in the last days who will not, but who surrender to the authority of the beast. They will be deceived into receiving the mark because they sincerely believe it is the right thing to do. It will not be open deliberate rebellion. They will conscientiously believe they are correct... They receive the mark in their foreheads. Others however will know they are doing it wrong... Against their conscience. They may accept the mark in order to work... In order to eat... Have a roof over their heads... To look after and provide for their families. They receive the mark in the hands.

 

[marks]

I'm not so sure about that. Defiance certainly. But throughout scripture regarding the last days, there are two themes running side by side... Worship, and deception.
"Take care that no man deceive you". Christians can be deceived. Can you not foresee a situation whereby a counterfeit form of global Christianity deceived the world into subscribing to it's doctrines re worship? Worship in this sense I mean as full surrender. Submission. And that's what the seal of God is all about... Surrender to the full lordship of Christ, which enables Christ to create in you His character.
But there will be a vast majority in the last days who will not, but who surrender to the authority of the beast. They will be deceived into receiving the mark because they sincerely believe it is the right thing to do. It will not be open deliberate rebellion. They will conscientiously believe they are correct... They receive the mark in their foreheads. Others however will know they are doing it wrong... Against their conscience. They may accept the mark in order to work... In order to eat... Have a roof over their heads... To look after and provide for their families. They receive the mark in the hands.

I see it as that Satan wants to be worshiped instead of God, and through the beast, through it's image, he will demand that worship on pain of death.

There will be much deception. Those who have the "strong delusion", can you imagine? These will be the beast mark's greatest proponants I expect.

But again, angels will be flying in the sky warning against it, I think that will be tough to miss.

Much love!

 

[Timtofly]

The point is that John 3:16 states that anyone who believes will be saved no matter what just like Paul who was persecuting the church. This tells us that the mark can't be literal but but a symbolic unrepentant devotion to the beast which is form of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit which Jesus taught us is the only unforgiveable sin.

Thus let the scriptures interpret the scriptures

If it is unforgivable, it no longer matters. Many humans have become reprobate, past the point of no return. God removed any choice to repent. Having a mark on your forehead is Satan's way to be proud about such a reprobate condition. God indicates, He puts that mark on the body, as God removes that person's name from the Lamb's book of life.

Satan nor any human can place this literal mark. They would not know when God removes a name. God knows the choice in one's heart, and that choice removes one's name. So when God sees the choice of the heart, God removes the name from the Lamb's book of life, and then places the mark so that all on earth can see the choice of one's heart. It will not be an accidental choice. It will be between each individual person and God.


Currently we choose to let the Holy Spirit control us. That choice at the time of the mark will be the eternal rejection of God. To accept God will be to literally have one's head cut off. That is the only act of faith, not knowing what is on the other side of that act. Some claim they can hide from God and that decision to choose being beheaded or receiving the mark. No one can hide from God and that choice.


The only way to be resurrected after having one's head cut off is to get one's head chopped off. Not dying at all is not the same thing as being beheaded. Revelation 20:4 is not Paul's rapture and change of dead flesh from corruption to incorruption. It is explicit in saying those beheaded. One literally has to be beheaded to fit that description. One has to physically die to get rid of Adam's flesh and blood.

 

[marks]

We need to remember that there are ex satanist who have converted to Christianity.

Yes, this is true, and you don't know what I'm ex- from also. Just the same, I counsel that we accept the Word as we find it, and when we find ourselves having to skirt the meanings of plainly written texts, that we should think instead about changing our ideas.

That has been my practice for quite some time now, and I've always found clarity, when I can identify and let go of wrong ideas.

Invariably I have found that a correct understanding of the Bible embraces it's plain statements for just what they say.

Some things in Scripture were written for certain times.

Hebrews 4:7 KJV
Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.

In that day, it will be true as the angels will announce, if you take the mark, or worship the image, you are condemned. How many times do we read in the Revelation, and they repented not . . . ?

Much love!

 

[Brakelite]

I see it as that Satan wants to be worshiped instead of God, and through the beast, through it's image, he will demand that worship on pain of death.

Agreed. But he still won't be able to do so openly. Can you imagine him entering the pulpit of the local congregation and saying, "hi. I'm Satan. Worship me or else". That ain't gonna happen. No-one will be deceived by that... Not even convinced. However, if the beast and it's image are his proxy agents promoting by legislation throughout the world doctrine that is rooted in paganism and the world is deceived... Wondering after the beast... And they believe the doctrine is not only necessary for Christian worship but essential for the survival of the species...

There will be much deception. Those who have the "strong delusion", can you imagine? These will be the beast mark's greatest proponants I expect.

Yes, and dobbing in their families and neighbors who aren't with the program.

But again, angels will be flying in the sky warning against it, I think that will be tough to miss.

To obvious. God wants us to believe the gospel by faith. Not by an overpowering spectacle that removes faith from the equation. Angels will indeed be directing the preaching in the last days... Even now... But as invisible ministers. At the very last desperate moment however, when the death sentence has been passed and the dividing complete between the sheep and goats, I believe angels from both sides of the controversy will make themselves visible... Heavenly angels protecting God's people... Satanic angels driving the wicked to destroy the remnant. This is Armageddon.

 

[Timtofly]

The only way they are not a contradiction if a matter of what the mark is.

If it’s a literal mark then it’s a contradiction if it’s symbolic of the mark on the forehead being devoted to the beast and the mark on the right hand doing the beast will then its not a contradiction.

The hardening means that God stops pursuing them He backs away and allows them to do what they want because of fee will that is the heart of the Farther

It does not matter if literal or not. Romans 1 clearly points out death is the outcome of those no longer able to choose what is right.

28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

God clearly points out in Revelation 13 that this is an open and public choice. Now it is a private choice. Then it will be public. Card readers do not scan one's heart and mind. There will be a literal mark to indicate you have made a public choice to follow Satan.

 

[Brakelite]

Card readers do not scan one's heart and mind. There will be a literal mark to indicate you have made a public choice to follow Satan.

Personally I believe that if you can buy and sell... You have a roof over your head... Then that is evidence you have indeed surrendered to the terms of the mark. But that card or implant out whatever is used to coordinate finance and everyday living, are merely the inducements to your submission and acceptance of the mark. The final inducement is the threat of death. Before that no doubt there will be fines, and jail, threats, bribes, pressure from family and friends. But the mark itself? In scripture the mark is set in contrast to keeping the Commandments of God.
KJV Revelation 14:9-12
9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
It's the mark of the beast. First, find out who the beast is... Then ask the beast what the mark, sign, or seal (all synonyms) of his authority is.

 

[marks]

However, if the beast and it's image are his proxy agents promoting by legislation throughout the world doctrine that is rooted in paganism and the world is deceived... Wondering after the beast... And they believe the doctrine is not only necessary for Christian worship but essential for the survival of the species...

This all sounds about right to me, only, I think "Christian worship" will be over by that time. I'm thinking a "post-christianity" culture, with the exception of Christendom being rolled up into the harlot like every other religion.

To obvious. God wants us to believe the gospel by faith. Not by an overpowering spectacle that removes faith from the equation. Angels will indeed be directing the preaching in the last days... Even now... But as invisible ministers. At the very last desperate moment however, when the death sentence has been passed and the dividing complete between the sheep and goats, I believe angels from both sides of the controversy will make themselves visible... Heavenly angels protecting God's people... Satanic angels driving the wicked to destroy the remnant. This is Armageddon.

I don't know, I'm going with the prophetic narrative. Right now God calls us to faith. But there will be a difference in that time. His prophets will be prophesying in Israel. His 144,000 will be going through the towns of Israel (my understanding). The witnesses will be striking the earth with whatever plagues they want. People will be blaspheming God for the plagues of His wrath, repenting not, defiant, knowing by then that this truly IS God judging them. And yes, angels announcing the Gospel, as God has ALWAYS had His witness in this world proclaiming truth.

That's an interesting idea about Armageddon. I'll stew on that awhile.

Much love!