Cults And Their Faults

[Raccoon1010]

Well does the Mormon church reject those teachings?
Have they publicly renounced what many of there leaders have taught as being false, or do they still believe them?

You are aware aren't you that the church of latter day saints regards all other churches as teaching falsehood and not truly Christian.

Joseph Smith in his history of the church, page 5-6 in vol 1 says" he asked the personages ( angels ) which of the sects was right. I was answered I must join none of them, for they were all wrong, that there creeds were an abomination. "

Either Mormons is true in which case Christianity is false or if Christianity is true, then mormonism is false.

They cannot both be true.

That is very black and white thinking. Like one is true and the other false. Some of Joseph revelations are true. Like not using tobacco is wisdom. And we later found it that it is. But other of his teachings may be incorrect as he also taught that not drinking is wise. But the bible spells out drinking for poverty stricken people and the dying. Today they would put you on terrible pain killers which are probably worse for you than drinking.

Anyways, it's not all black and white is it?

And Jesus is said in the bible there is no marriage in heaven. Joseph Smith said otherwise.

I'm not really sure what to think of it all. But do I see Joseph Smith as a prophet? No, not until Jesus testifies of that fact to me personally. And it 20 years he hasn't.

 

[Windmill Charge]

it's not all black and white is it?

Read John 3:16-18 and tell me where the grey areas are.

 

[Raccoon1010]

Read John 3:16-18 and tell me where the grey areas are.

Well that depends. I think God and Satan visit people and Satan is there to throw false information. That doesn't mean someone hasn't received a revelation from God. It just means they may lack discernment. But hearing voices that you think are God are something I am familiar with as schizophrenia.

The Holy Ghost is the only way to recognize for certain if it's God without miracles. And that is the spirit of vast and immense peace, love and joy. See Galatians 5:22-23.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Well does the Mormon church reject those teachings?
Have they publicly renounced what many of there leaders have taught as being false, or do they still believe them?

You are aware aren't you that the church of latter day saints regards all other churches as teaching falsehood and not truly Christian.

Joseph Smith in his history of the church, page 5-6 in vol 1 says" he asked the personages ( angels ) which of the sects was right. I was answered I must join none of them, for they were all wrong, that there creeds were an abomination. "

Either Mormons is true in which case Christianity is false or if Christianity is true, then mormonism is false.

They cannot both be true.

The core of ALL Christian beliefs (Baptists, Catholics, "Mormons", etc) is that Jesus is the Christ. The very Son of God. Salvation from sin comes via faith in Him. You cannot save yourself. We each love Christ, and strive to follow Him out of that love, repenting when the enviable misstep happen. He the Lord and the greatest commandment is to love Him with all your heart, mind, soul.

Do you deny any of that?

Read John 3:16-18 and tell me where the grey areas are.

Jesus Christ love ME so much that He died for ME. (+ everyone else, but I'm going to talk about me here). I believe on Him - He is my Savior! Through Him I have eternal life, through Him I have hope. Through Him I have light. He is the divine Son fo God, my King. The love of my life, the foundation of my soul.

Do you deny any of that?

 

[Windmill Charge]

Well that depends. I think God and Satan visit people and Satan is there to throw false information. That doesn't mean someone hasn't received a revelation from God. It just means they may lack discernment. But hearing voices that you think are God are something I am familiar with as schizophrenia.

The Holy Ghost is the only way to recognize for certain if it's God without miracles. And that is the spirit of vast and immense peace, love and joy. See Galatians 5:22-23.

That is a lot of nonsense.

John3:16 is about those who believe will be saved.
John3:18 is about those who do not believe are already condemned.

There are two groups of people. Those who are saved and those who are not saved.

There is no partly saved or almost saved or nearly saved.
Just as there are no almost or nearly or partly, condemned.

It is black and white in God's sight.

 

[Windmill Charge]

The core of ALL Christian beliefs (Baptists, Catholics, "Mormons", etc) is that Jesus is the Christ. The very Son of God. Salvation from sin comes via faith in Him. You cannot save yourself. We each love Christ, and strive to follow Him out of that love, repenting when the enviable misstep happen. He the Lord and the greatest commandment is to love Him with all your heart, mind, soul.

Do you deny any of that?


Jesus Christ love ME so much that He died for ME. (+ everyone else, but I'm going to talk about me here). I believe on Him - He is my Savior! Through Him I have eternal life, through Him I have hope. Through Him I have light. He is the divine Son fo God, my King. The love of my life, the foundation of my soul.

Do you deny any of that?

I don't deny any Christian teaching, it is the false teachings of the Mormon church I deny.

 

[Raccoon1010]

That is a lot of nonsense.

John3:16 is about those who believe will be saved.
John3:18 is about those who do not believe are already condemned.

There are two groups of people. Those who are saved and those who are not saved.

There is no partly saved or almost saved or nearly saved.
Just as there are no almost or nearly or partly, condemned.

It is black and white in God's sight.

Well I think the black and white is that without Christ's atonement we are already condemned. Jesus will judge according to what he sees fit and save anyone he desires to. And perhaps to us his judgments don't appear black and white. Just because "you" say someone will be saved or condemned doesn't make it true in any sense. That much is black and white. Jesus is the only worthy to have all power and authority unto the salvation of his people.

 

[Windmill Charge]

Just because "you" say someone will be saved or condemned doesn't make it true in any sense. That much is black and white. Jesus is the only worthy to have all power and authority unto the salvation of his people.

Fortunately it is not my judgement, but Jesus's judgement.

I apologise if my comment about nonsense offended you.
I was reacting to what I saw as not directly relating to my earlier post.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

I don't deny any Christian teaching, it is the false teachings of the Mormon church I deny.

I am a Christian. For you or anyone else to deny that is for you to deny John 3:16-18.

I'm not saying our beliefs on everything are identical- there are notable difference between denominations. But the core of any Christian is that love of the Savior, the Son of God, and faith in Him.

 

[Raccoon1010]

Fortunately it is not my judgement, but Jesus's judgement.

I apologise if my comment about nonsense offended you.
I was reacting to what I saw as not directly relating to my earlier post.

Interesting is that I feel compelled to share a little compassion for the misled Christians, and not just the LDS, there are many on here that hold to false teachings, which we could say are from a false prophet. And what I think is correct teachings you might not. Remember that with whatever measure you meet on others, it is with that measure you will be judged. So I'm open to any teachings from anyone that is true and correct. As if it is from God.

 

[lforrest]

To address the first: Yes it was when Moses was on the mountain. The KJV says this:

Exodus 32:14 And the Lord repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people.

The unforgivable sin is cited by Jesus when the Pharisees were trying to say he was casting out evil spirits by the power of Beelzibub. So I steer clear of ever entertaining that something evil God caused. It comes up in my thoughts from time to time. Something Satan pushes on people as he is blasphemous. Bible Gateway passage: Matthew 12:24-32 - New King James Version

We should consider what is evil, I think it can be summarized as what is contrary to God's will. So if God decided to do anything, wouldn't that be good by definition?

The KJV also uses the archaic language when any misfortunes were called 'evil.'

People may call good, evil and evil, good, and the bible tells us woe unto them but that can't be blasphemy of the Holy Spirit because everyone would have been guilty of that at some point. The Holy Spirit is not responsible for the will of God, that is from the Father.

There is potentially blasphemy of the Holy Spirit in calling the miracles Jesus performed by the Holy Spirit as being from the evil one. Because the Holy Spirit who empowered him is not evil.

 

[Raccoon1010]

We should consider what is evil, I think it can be summarized as what is contrary to God's will. So if God decided to do anything, wouldn't that be good by definition?

The KJV also uses the archaic language when any misfortunes were called 'evil.'

People may call good, evil and evil, good, and the bible tells us woe unto them but that can't be blasphemy of the Holy Spirit because everyone would have been guilty of that at some point. The Holy Spirit is not responsible for the will of God, that is from the Father.

There is potentially blasphemy of the Holy Spirit in calling the miracles Jesus performed by the Holy Spirit as being from the evil one. Because the Holy Spirit who empowered him is not evil.

Yes I would agree. I see God as Holy and when I feel his spirit I was able to sense that the spirit was Holy in the sense that he is clean of any evil or wickedness. And I see that I can trust him. And perhaps that is because he does good for me and for everyone else. Like sending his son to save me from my own errors of evil.

Thanks for that discussion on Blasphemy of the Holy Ghost. I kinda think along the same lines. And it was helpful.

 

[Wrangler]

The core of ALL Christian beliefs (Baptists, Catholics, "Mormons", etc) is that Jesus is the Christ. The very Son of God. Salvation from sin comes via faith in Him. You cannot save yourself. We each love Christ, and strive to follow Him out of that love, repenting when the enviable misstep happen. He the Lord and the greatest commandment is to love Him with all your heart, mind, soul.

Do you deny any of that?


Jesus Christ love ME so much that He died for ME. (+ everyone else, but I'm going to talk about me here). I believe on Him - He is my Savior! Through Him I have eternal life, through Him I have hope. Through Him I have light. He is the divine Son fo God, my King. The love of my life, the foundation of my soul.

Do you deny any of that?

Wow! Girl, you are on fire!!

 

[Wrangler]

I don't deny any Christian teaching, it is the false teachings of the Mormon church I deny.

Can't we all get along?

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Wow! Girl, you are on fire!!

I try to be patient and kind with people, while also being direct and getting to the heart of the matter.

Stepping away from talking about any CF users: I've been dealing with folks from Walter Martin's (& disciples) "anti-cult" for decades. Talking about one example relative I have: she was informed by her Baptist pastor that "Mormons are non-Christian cultists". She's heard that her entire life from people she views in positions of authority (pastors, Christian websites, etc). She follows them. But they told her bad information- bad information what they in turn heard from positions of authority- it's a giant "telephone" game.

Still my relative follows these people/website. It does not matter how many times I share with her my faith in Christ & His divine Sonship, she'll scamper around my back and say "did you know Mormons don't believe Jesus Christ is the Son of God? We need to hurry and make Jane a Christian else she'll burn in hellfire and try to get us all to follow her there!". Over and over again. It's literally been going on for decades at this point, and downright poisoned the family dynamics.

To me... I do not deny my relative's love of Christ or that she cares about me-- those are both real facts. But she doesn't see me, instead ignoring that in favor of the bad information she was told by authority figures. It does not matter what I say, she's too afraid to listen. Too afraid to challenge that authority for fear that it'll literally lead her to Hellfire. Now obviously that's not remotely reality-- no Christian has the need to be afraid of any true fact. And your pastor being incorrect about some things (like "Mormons don't believe Christ is the Son of God") doesn't remotely mean that the Bible isn't true or negate the truth of many good things your pastor did teach. It just means that we're all human, make mistakes, and continually have things to learn. That learning, repenting, and being better is part sanctification in Christ. It's something to be embraced as well all try to follow Him.

 

[MatthewG]

Www.cult.love

 

[Raccoon1010]

Www.cult.love

Huh?

 

[lforrest]

I posted on the Holiness of God in #52. I should point out that what I know of Holiness is that he is clean of any evil or wickedness.

Although I find the definition different: "dedicated or consecrated to God or a religious purpose; sacred".

I agree with your definition of holy. I would clarify that I don't consider Holy to be the polar opposite meaning to evil but I have been wrong before.

For example take the earth at creation, it was called Good by God. This would have by extension included the creatures who were also good.

Were they also Holy? if we look at Acts 10 the new condition under Christ's authority would make the creatures clean. Which appears to be the same meaning as Holy.

 

[MatthewG]

Just gonna leave that there. @dev553344

Www.cult.love

 

[Raccoon1010]

I agree with your definition of holy. I would clarify that I don't consider Holy to be the polar opposite meaning to evil but I have been wrong before.

For example take the earth at creation, it was called Good by God. This would have by extension included the creatures who were also good.

Were they also Holy? if we look at Acts 10 the new condition under Christ's authority would make the creatures clean. Which appears to be the same meaning as Holy.

I erased that post and covered it in post #52. I realized that when I felt the Holy Spirit that he may have been sharing part of his nature with me. To be clean of all unrighteousness. I should accept the definition of Holy to not be confusing to people which is to be wholly dedicated to God's will.