Daniel's 70Th Week: Warnings

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Xanderoc

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Mat 24:2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
First, the Romans did not destroy the Temple in 70AD, there are many stones standing upon another.
Second, abomination of desolation is the Antichrist, Satan.
Third, the war mentioned in Rev 12 ended the 1st earth age, that is when Michael kicked Satan of the Mercy Seat.

I did read parts of the rest of your post and chuckled. You have a lot of work to do yet.

This is a quote from Wikipedia, this information about the destruction can be found that easily. The Siege of Jerusalem in the year 70 CE was a decisive event in the First Jewish-Roman War. It was followed by the fall of Masada in 73 CE. The Roman army, led by the future Emperor Titus, with Tiberius Julius Alexander as his second-in-command, besieged and conquered the city of Jerusalem, which had been occupied by its Jewish defenders in 66 CE. The city and its famous Second Temple were destroyed in 70 CE.
Just wanted to point out the temple was destroyed by the Romans in 70 AD.
 

veteran

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I'll just add that Satan was cast out of his heavenly abode, but did that mean he no longer came before God to accuse us?
Because that's what Rev 12 says. Perhaps you should read the book of Job.

Why do you apply a fleshy understanding to the heavenly order? Who has taught you to think that Satan and his angels ever left the heavenly dimension existence when he fell? How is it that Satan and his angels were able to appear before God's Throne after his original casting out, per the Job example? Is God and His Throne on some far away planet in some far away galaxy, like some Star Trek episode? If Satan was literally cast to this earth where we are, why can't we literally see him like our Lord Jesus did in Luke 4? Why can't we see where the bottomless pit is today, since Satan is the angel of the bottomless pit?


But you see after Jesus sat at the right hand of God, He closed that door, thats what Rev 12 is saying. "for the accuser of our brethren, who accused them before our God day and night, has been cast down". It is not saying Satan was primarily kicked out of heaven as we know. The accuser has nothing to accuse us of so long as we are in Christ. It would also be point less for him to accuse those who are not Christ's.

What do you mean with the words, "primarily kicked out of heaven as we know"? It's clear to me you don't have a clue as to where he was cast to at his original rebellion against God.
 

bud02

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Why do you apply a fleshy understanding to the heavenly order? Who has taught you to think that Satan and his angels ever left the heavenly dimension existence when he fell? How is it that Satan and his angels were able to appear before God's Throne after his original casting out, per the Job example? Is God and His Throne on some far away planet in some far away galaxy, like some Star Trek episode? If Satan was literally cast to this earth where we are, why can't we literally see him like our Lord Jesus did in Luke 4? Why can't we see where the bottomless pit is today, since Satan is the angel of the bottomless pit?




What do you mean with the words, "primarily kicked out of heaven as we know"? It's clear to me you don't have a clue as to where he was cast to at his original rebellion against God.

Luke 10:[sup]17[/sup] Then the seventy returned with joy, saying, “Lord, even the demons are subject to us in Your name.”
[sup]18[/sup] And He said to them, “I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven. [sup]19[/sup] Behold, I give you the authority to trample on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy, and nothing shall by any means hurt you. [sup]20[/sup] Nevertheless do not rejoice in this, that the spirits are subject to you, but rather[sup][f][/sup] rejoice because your names are written in heaven.”

Luke 22:[sup]31[/sup] And the Lord said, “Simon, Simon! Indeed, Satan has asked for you, that he may sift you as wheat.

Was Jesus mistaken?
 

Paul

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This is a quote from Wikipedia, this information about the destruction can be found that easily. The Siege of Jerusalem in the year 70 CE was a decisive event in the First Jewish-Roman War. It was followed by the fall of Masada in 73 CE. The Roman army, led by the future Emperor Titus, with Tiberius Julius Alexander as his second-in-command, besieged and conquered the city of Jerusalem, which had been occupied by its Jewish defenders in 66 CE. The city and its famous Second Temple were destroyed in 70 CE.
Just wanted to point out the temple was destroyed by the Romans in 70 AD.


Well there are many stones standing on top of stones. Have you seen the pictures of the wailing wall. Mat 24:2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.


When Christ returns it will be totally destroyed not just busted up a bit. We don't have long to wait so just hang on, you'll see.
 

bud02

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Well there are many stones standing on top of stones. Have you seen the pictures of the wailing wall. Mat 24:2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.


When Christ returns it will be totally destroyed not just busted up a bit. We don't have long to wait so just hang on, you'll see.

I think you are referring to the temple mound. The temple proper is long gone.
 

veteran

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I do know Ezekiel but you still fail to draw the connection, or make a point.
I've been looking threw your replies and see that this, or rather your reply to my post is pretty normal for you.
I quit looking when I found this reply from RND


There are many other members here that I enjoy reading. Their replies and views even though I may not completely agree I respect, some I think are dangerous but even posts like those sometimes hold points or pieces that can be beneficial.

I think you need to make a decision whether you want to be a Christian and follow Christ's doctrine, or stay with the Pharisee traditions you're on that try to only pass as Christian doctrine.

The false idea that the final "one week" of Dan.9 happened in past history is allied with the false doctrine that Christ's second coming also happenned in the days of His Apostles. And that is also allied to the false idea that Christ's Milennium is either only spiritual or it does not exist, or that it has already started.

And those ideas are also allied with the false doctrine that Christ's Kingdom will only manfiest in the spiritual sense, and not literally on earth as written in God's Word.

All those ideas are from Judaizers that have crept into Christianity trying to turn Christian doctrine into a new modfied form of Judaism, which is against Christ Jesus.

Judaizers cannot understand Christ's Salvation apart from their flesh. That's why they are forced to interpret much of God's Truth with a fleshy mind. This is why they must try to use the idea of spiritualizing away prophesied events that do not fit their flesh order existence.

It's for those reasons also, Judaizers don't like folks like myself bringing up the subject of the "New World Order" or "one world government", terms out of the mouths of globalists themselves, and not terms I made up.

It does not matter how much Judaizers push their globalist one world agenda among Christianity today. Those whom Christ has sealed today will never buy into those false ideas, for we do not listen to the wolves hiding in sheep's clothing. So I will continue the subject of the MYSTERY, even to your disliking.
 

Paul

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bud, you go ahead and believe any thing you want. Some day you will wake up and see.
 

bud02

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I think you need to make a decision whether you want to be a Christian and follow Christ's doctrine, or stay with the Pharisee traditions you're on that try to only pass as Christian doctrine.

The false idea that the final "one week" of Dan.9 happened in past history is allied with the false doctrine that Christ's second coming also happenned in the days of His Apostles. And that is also allied to the false idea that Christ's Milennium is either only spiritual or it does not exist, or that it has already started.

And those ideas are also allied with the false doctrine that Christ's Kingdom will only manfiest in the spiritual sense, and not literally on earth as written in God's Word.

All those ideas are from Judaizers that have crept into Christianity trying to turn Christian doctrine into a new modfied form of Judaism, which is against Christ Jesus.

Judaizers cannot understand Christ's Salvation apart from their flesh. That's why they are forced to interpret much of God's Truth with a fleshy mind. This is why they must try to use the idea of spiritualizing away prophesied events that do not fit their flesh order existence.

It's for those reasons also, Judaizers don't like folks like myself bringing up the subject of the "New World Order" or "one world government", terms out of the mouths of globalists themselves, and not terms I made up.

It does not matter how much Judaizers push their globalist one world agenda among Christianity today. Those whom Christ has sealed today will never buy into those false ideas, for we do not listen to the wolves hiding in sheep's clothing. So I will continue the subject of the MYSTERY, even to your disliking.

You certainly placed a lot of words in my mouth.

The false idea that the final "one week" of Dan.9 happened in past history is allied with the false doctrine that Christ's second coming also happenned in the days of His Apostles. And that is also allied to the false idea that Christ's Milennium is either only spiritual or it does not exist, or that it has already started.

And those ideas are also allied with the false doctrine that Christ's Kingdom will only manfiest in the spiritual sense, and not literally on earth as written in God's Word.

All those ideas are from Judaizers that have crept into Christianity trying to turn Christian doctrine into a new modfied form of Judaism, which is against Christ Jesus.

the only part of the above statement I made was the 70th week of Danial happened after the 69th.
If you want to use scripture to support a different view please do so. But don't exaugurate with things I never said, especially when I don't believe them myself.
 

veteran

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More of MYSTERY BABYLON revealed...

In Genesis 3:15, God speaking to Satan ("that old serpent" - Rev.20:2), God told him He would put emnity between his seed, and the Seed of the woman. In Genesis 3 the Seed of the woman represents the family of Christ, God's people which He chose to bring His Salvation Promise through. That's when the battle lines were drawn between Satan and God's people for this present world.

Soon after that event, Satan used Cain to try and destroy that Seed of the woman, murdering Abel who was righteous before God. Satan's attack upon the Seed of the woman continued all the way down to the times of Baby Jesus, with Herod (an Idumean of Esau) trying to kill Christ when born through woman's womb.

Early in Genesis, God gave Abraham His Promise by Faith, and included certain lands on earth within that Promise. When it was time, God led the children of Israel, the children of the Promise, into those lands, crossing the Jordan with Joshua in charge. The Canaanites were already there in those lands to contest God's Will in His Promise to Abraham. Around 400 years prior, God had told Abraham that the iniquity of the Amorites was not yet full. The Amorites were one of those Canaanite nations. The Canaanites practised all sorts of pagan idolatry against The One True GOD of The Bible. They did human sacrifice of their children to false gods that are no gods. They practised sexual immorality in religious ritual form. Because of that, God told Israel to literally destroy all those Canaanite nations in that specific land, and leave alive nothing that breaths (Deut.20). But for other lands and peoples outside Canaan, Israel was to make peace.

In the process of Israel trying to obey God in that, certain Canaanites hid their identity as strangers and sojourners coming from a differrent land far away, dressing up in old tattered clothes with food that had wasted, and came to Israel under Joshua and asked for help, and to make a pact, and come in among the children of Israel to live. Joshua, believing their deception, agreed and made a pact with them. Then they were later discovered as Canaanites. Joshua kept his pact, but made those Canaanites hewers of wood, and drawers of water for the congregation of Israel. And they remained living among Israel (Joshua 9).

Per Judges 2 & 3, the children of Israel did not fulfill God's command to destroy all the nations of Canaan, but instead allowed the various Canaanite peoples to live among them. And for this reason, God said He would use them as a test upon Israel, to see if Israel would follow Him or not. So He left those nations among Israel.

In 1 Kings 9, in Solomon's days, those left of the nations of Canaan are mentioned by name, as bondservants to Israel, while the children of Israel were to perform other duties. In those days, some of those Canaanite bondservants became workers in the Temple in service of the Levitical priesthood. They were joined with other bondservants David and Solomon hired and traded with Hiram king of Tyre (Sidonians) - 2 Sam.5; 1 Kings 5. That began the connection of masons and skilled workers in metallurgy associated with Solomon's temple. One could say, that set the framework for the later trades guilds that grew the later Masonic traditions.

After God split the old kingdom of Israel into two separate kingdoms, a southern kingdom under the "house of Judah" and Solomon's son at Jerusalem, and a northern kingdom of ten tribes ("house of Israel") in the northern lands of Israel, God removed all the ten tribed northern kingdom into captivity to the Medes and Assyria. Then later the house of Judah also fell away from God, and He caused Jerusalem to be destroyed through the king of Babylon taking them into captivity to Babylon for seventy years. After the seventy years, a small remnant of the tribes of Judah and Benjamin returned to Jerusalem to build the second temple and city (Books of Ezra and Nehemiah). Returning with that small remnant of Judah and Benjamin were priests that could not find their genalogy among Israel, and also a group called Nethinims.

The word Nethinim was applied to those bondservants from Canaan that became Temple workers. They cut wood for the altar, carried water, cleansed the Temple and utensils used in Temple service (all Levitical priest duties). Ezra looked at the remnant returning from Babylon and saw none of the sons of Levi returning (Ezra 8). They had priests that were returning from Babylon, but they were not of Israel. So Ezra sent a head Nethinim back to Babylon to retreive sons of Levi for the priesthood. The meaning of some of the names of the sons of Levi that were brought back shows how the Levitical priesthood had sunken into oblivion by non-Israelites that had crept in. King Jeroboam over the ten tribes had made common priests of the people which helped cause the ten tribes to fall away from God and be scattered among the nations.

In Ezra 9, something worse had happenned to the house of Judah while captive to Babylon. Many of the people had taken wives of the Canaanites that dwelt among them, and were following the abominations of the Canaanites, the priests, Levites being guilty, and the princes and elders of Israel being chief violaters in that.

During the Babylon captivity was when the priesthood developed the Babylonian Talmud, a sage-like book of sayings only based on Torah traditions. Soon after that time is also when the main editors of Scripture became the duty of the scribes that dwelt at Jabez. In 1 Chronicles 2:55, we are told the families of the scribes were the Kenites. Per Genesis 15, the Kenites were a non-Israelite peoples that dwelt among the nations of Canaan, i.e., Canaanites.

That is a mystery which the New Testament writers knew about, and is why our Lord Jesus and His Apostles rebuked certain ones among the Jews, especially those who were followers of "the Jew's religion", a religion that had developed not in the days of Abraham, not in the days of Moses, not in the days of Joshua, not in the days of David, but in the days just prior to Judah's captivity to Babylon, and during the Babylon captivity, and thereafter. The "Jews' religion" Apostle Paul had been born into, and it caused him to persecute Christ's Church until Christ called him into His service.

These are the "...certain men crept in unawares..." Jude spoke of in Jude 1, "...who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ."

It's these that Apostle Paul warned of with tears day and night that grievous wolves would creep in among Christ's Church (Acts 20:28-31).

It's these that also exist among us in Christ's Churches today that want us to accept the idea of a utopian form of one world government of the 'now', without our Lord Jesus coming to do the setting up of His True Eternal Government and Kingdom. These "certain men crept in unawares" don't have authority from Christ to setup their planned global system over all nations. Christ Jesus is not part of their plan, for only Christ Jesus is LORD of lords, and KING of kings and is coming in Person to this earth to reign over all nations. Our Lord Jesus will setup His Throne here on earth as written. Their fake throne and kings they plan to setup on earth in the last days will fail. In time they will be visited by The Lord at His return to this earth with clouds. And in that time when Christ begins His reign, there will no more be the Canaanite in the House of The LORD of hosts (Zechariah 14:21).
 

bud02

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More of MYSTERY BABYLON revealed...


It's these that Apostle Paul warned of with tears day and night that grievous wolves would creep in among Christ's Church (Acts 20:28-31).

It's these that also exist among us in Christ's Churches today that want us to accept the idea of a utopian form of one world government of the 'now', without our Lord Jesus coming to do the setting up of His True Eternal Government and Kingdom. These "certain men crept in unawares" don't have authority from Christ to setup their planned global system over all nations. Christ Jesus is not part of their plan, for only Christ Jesus is LORD of lords, and KING of kings and is coming in Person to this earth to reign over all nations. Our Lord Jesus will setup His Throne here on earth as written. Their fake throne and kings they plan to setup on earth in the last days will fail. In time they will be visited by The Lord at His return to this earth with clouds. And in that time when Christ begins His reign, there will no more be the Canaanite in the House of The LORD of hosts (Zechariah 14:21).

and from your previous post

I think you need to make a decision whether you want to be a Christian and follow Christ's doctrine, or stay with the Pharisee traditions you're on that try to only pass as Christian doctrine.

You make your case very clear to all. You are unable to bring the evidence of your faith from scripture and so you resort to rather worldly tactics "slander" to make a point.
And I thought that Paul sword was dull.
When you can discuss scripture as an adult perhaps we could learn from one another. As iron sharpens iron so one man sharpens another.

Nether you or Paul has presented scripture to disclaim my post, nor have you been defending your thread starter statement. quoted below
Some here aren't familiar with the seminary doctrines of men called Preterism and Historicism. Those seminary views treat the final "one week" of Dan.9:27 in the 70 weeks prophecy as already having been fulfilled. I think it fair to warn those who understand the coming of a false messiah just prior to our Lord Jesus' second coming about some of the modified ideas of those two views being pushed today, just so you'll know what it's about, and why I see those views as danger for anyone who understands we are to make a stand for Christ Jesus during the coming great tribulation.

I have shown you some of my view about the 70th week and all you can muster is "]I think you need to make a decision whether you want to be a Christian and follow Christ's doctrine, or stay with the Pharisee traditions you're on that try to only pass as Christian doctrine".

I assure you people reading this post are smarter than that. Have a good evening
 

bud02

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Sorry I missed this post

Why should I try to cover Rev.12:6-17 with you when you're already set that it has nothing for the future tribulation? Per the doctrine of men you've already shown, I have doubts you believe the "great tribulation" our Lord mentioned is still future to us.
I do believe in it I just dont believe in your 7 year theory. The nearer we get to the Lords return the worse it will be.

And by the way, Satan's head is not bruised yet, for he is yet to be cast into the lake of fire. He's still at work; death is not literally destroyed just yet, for it has yet to go into the lake of fire with Satan at the end of this world. Dan.11 covers part of that too, but I'd say you've missed that as well as the 'flood mentioned in Dan.9:27.
The flood is spoken about right here rev 12:[sup]15[/sup] So the serpent spewed water out of his mouth like a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away by the flood.
Lets just say that the water is people. and that is what it says in Danial also,
And the people of the prince who is to come ...........the prince of this world Satan and his people. The dragon spewed water out of his mouth. Rev 12:15
Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary.
The end of it shall be with a flood.
And till the end of the war desolations are determined.

The problem with your interpretation is you try to condense all of prophesy into one 7 year period in the future. This is just the beginning as Gabriel says. And till the end of the war desolations are determined. The war is still going on my friend.

It looks to me like Satans demise is in stages, first he was thrown out of heaven, but still came before God accusing or rather pointing out our sins. At the cross the NT tells us that Jesus was seated and the earth became His foot stool now that is very symbolic of a brused heal and Satans head. And my interpretation of rev 12, John says that the accuser was thrown out, he's lock out completely now. John goes on to warn about his anger about the consequences. Satan is locked out of heaven and he turns his anger on earth. Read it for your self.........Therefore rejoice, O heavens, and you who dwell in them! Woe to the inhabitants of the earth and the sea! For the devil has come down to you, having great wrath, because he knows that he has a short time.”
The next stage of Satan's demise will be when Michael binds him. And then his final destruction.

Rom 16:20
20 And the God of peace shall bruise Satan under your feet shortly. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you. Amen.
(KJV)
Paul is speaking to men, notice under your feet. Jesus already has him under His.

And if Satan and death is not literally destroyed yet, in what way did our Lord Jesus defeat death upon His cross? Didn't Apostle Paul, when he spoke of the "new creature" idea, still leave room in that idea for our future redemption by Christ? If not, then why are the wicked still in power on this earth, and why aren't those who sleep in Jesus with us now, and why aren't we where Christ is now, since He promised to gather us where He is?

The last part there I really don't follow. but again you dont see the progression of events, you want to deny them and apply them all in the end with the 7 year trib.
Francisco Ribera (1537-1591) was a Jesuit doctor of theology, he would be proud of your doctrine.
 

omnicopy

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Not necessarily pointing at you personally but simply laying out my limited understanding of Rev, at the same time letting scripture interpret itself.



Can I presume for a moment that you believe that the great tribulation will be a 7 year or your 70th week event?
In Mathew 24 Jesus first predicts the destruction of the temple. Then He speaks of the abomination of desolation.

Dan 9: [sup]26[/sup] “ And after the sixty-two weeks
Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself; .................the cross
And the people of the prince who is to come ..................the Romans
Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. .........................the Romans 70 ad
The end of it shall be with a flood,
And till the end of the war desolations are determined. ...................the abomination to come. The war that began in Rev ch 12.
[sup]27[/sup] Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week;
But in the middle of the week
He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering.
And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate, ..................abominations of the Jewish leaders. Jesus over turned the money changers tables "abomination"?
Even until the consummation, which is determined,
Is poured out on the desolate.”.........................................Mathew 24: 8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.....the beginning of the war now look at Rev 12



Verse 1-6
1&2 Is Joseph dream the sun and the moon. The birth of Israel. The promised Seed. Being with child
[sup]5[/sup] She bore a male Child who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron. And her Child was caught up to God and His throne. Caught up to God "the cross"
Next we see the destruction of Jerusalem the first part of Mt 24. the warning for the Woman "church" to flee.
Then the woman fled into the wilderness, where she has a place prepared by God, that they should feed her there one thousand two hundred and sixty days.


From 7-12
We see the completed work of Jesus at the cross His returning to the Father and now war broke out. " nor was a place found for them in heaven any longer".
Luke 22:[sup]31[/sup] And the Lord said, “Simon, Simon! Indeed, Satan has asked for you, that he may sift you as wheat. I included this to show that the Dragon was still accusing before the throne right up to the cross.

The cross and then we read.
[sup]10[/sup] Then I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, “Now salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren, who accused them before our God day and night, has been cast down. [sup]11[/sup] And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, and they did not love their lives to the death.

The warning to flee, the beginning of the great tribulation. Mt 24:15
Woe to the inhabitants of the earth and the sea! For the devil has come down to you, having great wrath, because he knows that he has a short time.”
You can see that he, the dragon saw that he had been cast to the earth, he persecuted the woman who gave birth to the male Child.
First persecuted the Woman that gave birth The Jewish Nation. History proves this out.
Now the Woman "true church" is in the wilderness. 1260 years. Not in Rome establishing a false church. You Veteran knowing the tribes of Joesph were in the wilderness, should also know that the Roman empire reached into England, to Hadrians wall 122 AD.

I'm about done, but the man of perdition in 2 Thes is yet future, also the same as the lamb with 2 horns "second beast". But as I pointed out in my previous post what kind of temple will he use? Rev 13s first beast is who? Maybe? And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

As you can see understanding the timing of events is critical. Just as critical as identifying Jesus in Danial 9:27 instead of Satan. Keeping these points in mine the NT and the stage in Rev is set. Please note that Rev 12 also indicates that Jesus last words were literal and true, It Is Finished. Gabriel said "To seal up vision and prophecy," Not completed but sealed. Now it easy to understand the dragons rage. The beginning of the great tribulation started when Jesus was seated at the right hand of God, Satan was forever cast out of heaven, we are still in the great trib. the second beast of Rev 13 is yet to make himself known. The son of perdition.


Jesus wasn't a child when he hung on the cross. He can't be the manchild.

Kim
 

veteran

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Sorry I missed this post


I do believe in it I just dont believe in your 7 year theory. The nearer we get to the Lords return the worse it will be.


The flood is spoken about right here rev 12:[sup]15[/sup] So the serpent spewed water out of his mouth like a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away by the flood.
Lets just say that the water is people. and that is what it says in Danial also,
And the people of the prince who is to come ...........the prince of this world Satan and his people. The dragon spewed water out of his mouth. Rev 12:15
Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary.
The end of it shall be with a flood.
And till the end of the war desolations are determined.

The problem with your interpretation is you try to condense all of prophesy into one 7 year period in the future. This is just the beginning as Gabriel says. And till the end of the war desolations are determined. The war is still going on my friend.

It looks to me like Satans demise is in stages, first he was thrown out of heaven, but still came before God accusing or rather pointing out our sins. At the cross the NT tells us that Jesus was seated and the earth became His foot stool now that is very symbolic of a brused heal and Satans head. And my interpretation of rev 12, John says that the accuser was thrown out, he's lock out completely now. John goes on to warn about his anger about the consequences. Satan is locked out of heaven and he turns his anger on earth. Read it for your self.........Therefore rejoice, O heavens, and you who dwell in them! Woe to the inhabitants of the earth and the sea! For the devil has come down to you, having great wrath, because he knows that he has a short time.”
The next stage of Satan's demise will be when Michael binds him. And then his final destruction.


Paul is speaking to men, notice under your feet. Jesus already has him under His.



The last part there I really don't follow. but again you dont see the progression of events, you want to deny them and apply them all in the end with the 7 year trib.
Francisco Ribera (1537-1591) was a Jesuit doctor of theology, he would be proud of your doctrine.


You still don't have a clue as to what that flood metaphor is about.

Best enjoy this present flesh world as much as you can, because it's getting ready to end. Then you'll see the prophecy of Christ's second coming has a lot more literal bodily meaning than just a pagan spiritualist idea that Preterists toy with.
 

bud02

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You still don't have a clue as to what that flood metaphor is about.

Best enjoy this present flesh world as much as you can, because it's getting ready to end. Then you'll see the prophecy of Christ's second coming has a lot more literal bodily meaning than just a pagan spiritualist idea that Preterists toy with.

I don't understand people on this forum, didn't we all read that we should reason together?
I come here and lay out my understanding and belief, only to receive one line wonders from any one that disagrees.
The mind set here is amazing everyone is right in their own eyes, and it completely lacks any kind of discussion.

So you have had another little jab at what I believe with no scripture to support your accusation --- quote "pagan spiritualist idea" ---- I assure you just as Jesus warned an adulterous generation.
Luke 11:[sup]30[/sup] For as Jonah became a sign to the Ninevites, so also the Son of Man will be to this generation. [sup]31[/sup] The queen of the South will rise up in the judgment with the men of this generation and condemn them, for she came from the ends of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and indeed a greater than Solomon is here. [sup]32[/sup] The men of Nineveh will rise up in the judgment with this generation and condemn it, for they repented at the preaching of Jonah; and indeed a greater than Jonah is here.
I don't say this in regard to what I said but rather in regard to the reformers, it is to them you say "just a pagan spiritualist idea" you don't just paint me a pagan, you include

John Wycliffe
John Hus
Johann Gutenberg
Martin Luther
William Tyndale
John Knox
John Foxe
John Calvin
Matthew Henry

To all of them and many more to numerous to mention you call pagans, my they rise up in the judgment.
 

bud02

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BTW you flood metaphor.
Why don't you just come out in this tread and tell everyone the story between Gen verse 1 and verse 2 ;)

Don't pay any attention to the fact that John says the waters are people right in rev.
Do you know how Babylon fell? Didn't Cyrus dry up the water / river under Babylon?
Do you suppose that my be a metaphor for the second coming?
The people coming out of her? Drying up the waters from under Babylon? sneaking in? and setting "Israel / Judah free?
1 Thessalonians 5:2-4 (NIV) for you know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night.

Pleeeeeease I and perhaps "we" would like to your metaphor, carry on
 

veteran

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I don't understand people on this forum, didn't we all read that we should reason together?
I come here and lay out my understanding and belief, only to receive one line wonders from any one that disagrees.
The mind set here is amazing everyone is right in their own eyes, and it completely lacks any kind of discussion.

So you have had another little jab at what I believe with no scripture to support your accusation --- quote "pagan spiritualist idea" ---- I assure you just as Jesus warned an adulterous generation.

I don't say this in regard to what I said but rather in regard to the reformers, it is to them you say "just a pagan spiritualist idea" you don't just paint me a pagan, you include

John Wycliffe
John Hus
Johann Gutenberg
Martin Luther
William Tyndale
John Knox
John Foxe
John Calvin
Matthew Henry

To all of them and many more to numerous to mention you call pagans, my they rise up in the judgment.


You're vain attempt to use the reformers as a cover for men's doctrines is a failure.

The reformers were devout men of God. But their view of their times was limited to when they lived, and to the only events present in their day. Lot more has happenned since their days.

YOU didn't live in the days of the reformers to see events as they did. Instead, you live in TODAY'S times with MANY MORE SIGNS that point to Scripture being fulfilled right before your eyes, but you still disregard these signs in favor of following men's traditions that have caused you to look away.

If the reformers had lived to today's times, they would have updated their understanding of the signs of the times of the end being given today. Believers today have no excuse in treating God's Word like a fulfilled secular history book, which is exactly what Preterism and Historicism seeks to do.
 

bud02

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You're vain attempt to use the reformers as a cover for men's doctrines is a failure.

The reformers were devout men of God. But their view of their times was limited to when they lived, and to the only events present in their day. Lot more has happenned since their days.

YOU didn't live in the days of the reformers to see events as they did. Instead, you live in TODAY'S times with MANY MORE SIGNS that point to Scripture being fulfilled right before your eyes, but you still disregard these signs in favor of following men's traditions that have caused you to look away.

If the reformers had lived to today's times, they would have updated their understanding of the signs of the times of the end being given today. Believers today have no excuse in treating God's Word like a fulfilled secular history book, which is exactly what Preterism and Historicism seeks to do.

Read Matthew Henry's commentary it was published in 1706, he believed that 9:27 was Jesus not AC.
He also believed the account that I presented on rev 12 also.

I disagree Daniel 9:27 was never applied to antichrist
no where in the bible is the word covenant used in conjunction with any one but God. Its used 292 times in the KJV and you still insist on applying it to antichrist in 9:27. thats just ignoring the evedence. Jesus confirmed the covenant in the midst of the week, right before He was cut of from them.
Matthew Henrys complete commentary........... http://www.biblestudytools.com/commentaries/matthew-henry-complete/


The new enlightenment that you refer to today is not new at all. Both futurism and preterism were launched by the RCC to counter the reformers. Google counter reformation.
http://www.gospel-he...ism_history.htm

Darby in the 1830's picket up the futurism glove, then Scofield and here you are today, a full fledged futurist.

To set aside all the dates and manipulations for power that took place during Romes demise, let me just say that the RCC is the only thing that survived the fall or transformation of Rome. That is an undeniable fact to even a 5 graders comprehension of history class. Applying a day of a day instead of a day for a year like we know from Danial and Ezekiel along with futurism is nothing more than a hybrid of the original Jesuit counter reformation. Can you explain to me why or where we are instructed
to apply a day for a day in Rev 1260 days. The only reason is to support the 70th week the last 7 years, which isn't the 70th at all. Its the 700,000 and still counting. You see how Danial 9:27 interpretation is the key here.
How is it you can read Danial and know from history that the only way the prophesy works is applying a day for a year, but yet when you get to Rev you apply a different standard a day = a day. When you see that Danial 9:27 is Jesus and the 70th week was fulfilled from Jesus baptism to the calling of the gentiles all this futurist hocus pocus falls apart. A little levin levins the whole loaf.
http://www.gospel-he...ism_history.htm

So back to you what has happened since the 1600's that justifies your statement.
The reformers were devout men of God. But their view of their times was limited to when they lived, and to the only events present in their day. Lot more has happenned since their days.

The more time I spend reading and posting here the more I'm inclined to think this is a jesuit site, by design or chance I don't know. Strangelove for example, in the mystery Babylon thread presents Jerusalem as the 7 hills, mystery babylon ect. The only place I have ever heard his interpretation is on catholic sites. Same goes for his defense of a geocentric universe, the only people that I know that still defend it are catholic. You your self echo many catholics, that are free thinkers and bible literate. There is a large swing to point out the fact that the secret rapture is false but still continue the futurism dogma of today's churches. Not to mention the son of satan - cain and the three earth ages. Its a pretty strange place but I liken myself to the front line.
 

bud02

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Veteran I just came across another point about Rev 12:7 when Satan was thrown out of heaven, enraged he pursued the church and the church was taken into the wilderness for 1260 years.

[sup]7[/sup] And war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels fought with the dragon; and the dragon and his angels fought, [sup]8[/sup] but they did not prevail, nor was a place found for them[sup][a][/sup] in heaven any longer. [sup]9[/sup] So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
[sup]10[/sup] Then I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, “Now salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren, who accused them before our God day and night, has been cast down. [sup]11[/sup] And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, and they did not love their lives to the death. [sup]12[/sup] Therefore rejoice, O heavens, and you who dwell in them! Woe to the inhabitants of the earth and the sea! For the devil has come down to you, having great wrath, because he knows that he has a short time.”

John 12 [sup]29[/sup]The people therefore, that stood by, and heard it, said that it thundered: others said, An angel spake to him.
[sup]30[/sup]Jesus answered and said, This voice came not because of me, but for your sakes.[sup]
31[/sup]Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.
[sup]32[/sup]And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.
Do you understand what Jesus said? now shall the prince of this world be cast out. Before you attempt to twist this verse I would like to point out that satan is still here on earth. That leaves only one place he was cast out of Heaven....... Rev 12 was fulfilled at or near the reformation, but the war goes on. The RCC became the single offical church of Rome about 370 380 AD do the math, read the scriptures and listen to those who have gone before us.




7 And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

To add to the background to the above verse, I do believe that the lost tribes relocated in Ireland and Scotland. As you read, first he went after the woman "Jews / Israel " that bore the child "Jesus" then after her children. If you don't know Hadrian's wall, in northern England / southern Scotland was far as satan / Rome could reach. It's construction began in 122 AD, they were to thin and they could not over come the Saxon. That of course was right after he satan smashed Jerusalem and every Jew / christian possible. You don't think that satan had lost track of where they went do you? The woman was protect in the wilderness a place prepared by God.
The Dragon spewed water out of his mouth, don't suppose that was the Roma army do you? Like John says the waters are people. The earth swallowed it up. History says that the Roman army was just to far from home to over come the Saxon.

I keep telling you, If you interpret Danial 9:27 as Jesus instead of the AC all the lights come on, and the darkness disappears. Then you can clearly understand the NT as well as begin to understand Rev. Notice that there are two 1260 day periods one in Ch 12 and one in Ch 13. one is for the womans protection and one is for the authority of the beast "RCC" the deadly wound 1798 ended the papal run. After that time the Vatican lost its control over the kings of Europe but its healed up pretty good since then hasn't it. Simply because people don't look to the past when considering the future or current events, Remember how I said that Babylon "proper " was over thrown by drying up the waters she sat on. Have you noticed the worlds outrage with the RCC and its sexual exploits. The waters "peoples" drying up under mystery Babylon? But the next player in rev 13 my revive the beast.
he had two horns like a lamb and spoke like a dragon. [sup]12[/sup] And he exercises all the authority of the first beast in his presence, and causes the earth and those who dwell in it to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.

[sup]5[/sup] And he was given a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies, and he was given authority to continue for forty-two months. Popes had full control of the old Roma empire from about 536 to 1798. Controlling and influencing both religion and politics. Today the Pope just as in any pagon Roman or pre-Roman religion states that he, and he alone is the mediator between God and men. All across the world and in the media when you say christian there stands the RCC as the symbol of christianity, makes me sick to think it but its true. And the whole world wonders after the beast. Wake up people.