David Wilkerson's "The Vision"

[marks]

As stated in the OP, marks, almost all of the vision is still set in the future. The only thing we can see at present are the trends, which appear to be going in the directions prophesied.

I'd suggest if you can get a hold of the original publication and check it out.

 

[marks]

You cite a reference to the FAITHFULNESS of GOD, as though men were faithful. But even so, first you have to be a man. So man up.

Bobby Jo

Whatever. I was trying of lighten up moment. Nevermind.

 

[marks]

Yes : )

Is that because you see it taught in Scripture? Because you believe for reasons outside of Scripture? Both?

 

[Hidden In Him]

I may not have the time to give a full treatment of this prophecy and how it fits hand-in-glove with other modern end-time visions, so let me just hit the highlights;

1. Worldwide Economic Crash.
This comes first, and sets the stage for the rest of it. Wilkerson used the words "persecution madness," while other visions use the words "rage" and "lawlessness," but financial collapse will cause societal breakdowns on a scale the world hasn't seen before. Mobs numbering in the hundreds of thousands will sweep through cities destroying everything in their path, and governments will not be able to control their populaces. Crime elements like gangs and drug cartels will gain the upper hand in many regions because of inadequate police funding and protection, so cops will simply have to stand by while murders are committed out in the open.

The rage in society will be directed at all forms of authority, and that will include churches in the region. Wilkerson states in his vision that many of the megachurches will not be around anymore, and this is because some will be reduced to rubble. Others will remain standing as graffiti-covered abandoned buildings. But nothing will stem the tide of violence. This is ultimately the Lord's doing because people in the end-times will finally come to realize that there is only One true source of protection and provision, and His name is Jesus Christ.

2. Persecution Of The Church.
As Wilkerson stated, this is what will draw the true church closer to God, and while Christians will suffer from the rage being generated by Satanist, Homosexual and Muslim factions within society, the greatest persecution will actually come from a false super church, an amalgamation of mainline Christianity, headed by Rome that will unite into one entity to attain great political control.

But all things will work for good to those who truly love God, and the result of having to draw closer to God will be empowerment from the Spirit of God. Satanists are prophesied to enter churches en masse and perform lewd acts in front of congregations who are powerless to stop it, and such things will become a fad for a time. But they will also lead some to seek God in prayer for the power to cast our demons, and this power will bring an end to such fads eventually.

This is the primary thing the first two developments listed above will accomplish: They will return to the true church to incessant prayer; prayer for His financial provision, prayer for His supernatural protection, prayer for the power of God to be made manifest on their behalf in all ways. And those prayers will begin to be answered.

3. The Outpouring And The Harvest.
Scripture says the harvest is the END of the age, and this is the setting in which a great spiritual harvest from the earth will finally take place. As a result of persecution and hatred against Christians, the true church will eventually be whittled down to a small remnant; a remnant of those willing to stand for the truth at all costs (even imprisonment and death), and upon these the Spirit of God will be poured out in greater measure than the earth has ever seen (John 14:12). Some miracles will be so great as to cause entire nations to turn to God. Little children, anointed by the Spirit of God, will lay hands on hospitals and the entire building will be healed in the name of Jesus Christ. Over a billion souls will come to Christ before the end comes.

I'm leaving out a ton of stuff, but that's hitting the highlights. Wilkerson's vision really doesn't add all that much that isn't said elsewhere, although it does add a few things I've never read anywhere else. The nude dancing thing I've never heard anywhere else, and some of his details on occultism in the church is unique...

Anyway, that's a quick synopsis. As other things pop out at me, I may have some other things to comment on. I'm still going through the video, but I keep getting distracted by stuff, LoL.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Is that because you see it taught in Scripture? Because you believe for reasons outside of Scripture? Both?

Both. Most of it is outside scripture, but the two passages that will reach their ultimate fulfillment in the times ahead of us are Joel 2:28-31 and John 14:12. Some believe those have been fulfilled already, but a closer examination reveals they have not. They are both set to be fulfilled in the end-times.

 

[Hidden In Him]

I'd suggest if you can get a hold of the original publication and check it out.

I've been searching for one actually. But I can't find a complete one in print.

 

[Keraz]

I may not have the time to give a full treatment of this prophecy and how it fits hand-in-glove with other modern end-time visions, so let me just hit the highlights;

1. Worldwide Economic Crash.
This comes first, and sets the stage for the rest of it. Wilkerson used the words "persecution madness," while other visions use the words "rage" and "lawlessness," but financial collapse will cause societal breakdowns on a scale the world hasn't seen before. Mobs numbering in the hundreds of thousands will sweep through cities destroying everything in their path, and governments will not be able to control their populaces. Crime elements like gangs and drug cartels will gain the upper hand in many regions because of inadequate police funding and protection, so cops will simply have to stand by while murders are committed out in the open.

The rage in society will be directed at all forms of authority, and that will include churches in the region. Wilkerson states in his vision that many of the megachurches will not be around anymore, and this is because some will be reduced to rubble. Others will remain standing as graffiti-covered abandoned buildings. But nothing will stem the tide of violence. This is ultimately the Lord's doing because people in the end-times will finally come to realize that there is only One true source of protection and provision, and His name is Jesus Christ.

2. Persecution Of The Church.
As Wilkerson stated, this is what will draw the true church closer to God, and while Christians will suffer from the rage being generated by Satanist, Homosexual and Muslim factions within society, the greatest persecution will actually come from a false super church, an amalgamation of mainline Christianity, headed by Rome that will unite into one entity to attain great political control.

But all things will work for good to those who truly love God, and the result of having to draw closer to God will be empowerment from the Spirit of God. Satanists are prophesied to enter churches en masse and perform lewd acts in front of congregations who are powerless to stop it, and such things will become a fad for a time. But they will also lead some to seek God in prayer for the power to cast our demons, and this power will bring an end to such fads eventually.

This is the primary thing the first two developments listed above will accomplish: They will return to the true church to incessant prayer; prayer for His financial provision, prayer for His supernatural protection, prayer for the power of God to be made manifest on their behalf in all ways. And those prayers will begin to be answered.

3. The Outpouring And The Harvest.
Scripture says the harvest is the END of the age, and this is the setting in which a great spiritual harvest from the earth will finally take place. As a result of persecution and hatred against Christians, the true church will eventually be whittled down to a small remnant; a remnant of those willing to stand for the truth at all costs (even imprisonment and death), and upon these the Spirit of God will be poured out in greater measure than the earth has ever seen (John 14:12). Some miracles will be so great as to cause entire nations to turn to God. Little children, anointed by the Spirit of God, will lay hands on hospitals and the entire building will be healed in the name of Jesus Christ. Over a billion souls will come to Christ before the end comes.

I'm leaving out a ton of stuff, but that's hitting the highlights. Wilkerson's vision really doesn't add all that much that isn't said elsewhere, although it does add a few things I've never read anywhere else. The nude dancing thing I've never heard anywhere else, and some of his details on occultism in the church is unique...

Anyway, that's a quick synopsis. As other things pop out at me, I may have some other things to comment on. I'm still going through the video, but I keep getting distracted by stuff, LoL.

This list is just as statistical people like to show things; just continuing on, as a line on a graph.
But they make no allowance for a sudden change or any dramatic alteration to the present situation.

What is Prophesied IS an dramatic and world changing event. The great and terrible Day of the Lord's vengeance and wrath by fire, earthquakes, storms and tsunamis. Over 100 Bible prophesies detail this event; the Sixth Seal disaster that will set the scene for all that must happen before Jesus Returns.
Shouldn't this be foremost in our minds, to be prepared for it; physically and spiritually?

 

[Bobby Jo]

I agree!

Certainly one who is really in touch with God at all should definitely moving away from such a lower ratio and toward a higher one and beyond. Jesus was beyond and as each of us gets to know Him better, we should also be doing better with prophecies or whatever work God has given us to do.

And I AGREE! -- And toward this, we must be cognizant that we NOT ONLY RECEIVE FROM JESUS, but also each other in the GIFTINGS of the BODY. So it's important to HEAR and then JUDGE what is Scriptural versus what might NOT be Scriptural. And so we come closer to each other and to the FATHER.

Bobby Jo

 

[Bobby Jo]

... The only thing we can see at present are the trends, which appear to be going in the directions prophesied.

Many in the church think that their ignorance is shared by all.

Perhaps what they don't know is available to them, if they simply ask. But then again, maybe they don't believe in the BODY Ministry.
Bobby Jo

 

[Bobby Jo]

Whatever. I was trying of lighten up moment. Nevermind.

We're in the Tribulation. Maybe it's time to be serious?

Bobby Jo

 

[Hidden In Him]

This list is just as statistical people like to show things; just continuing on, as a line on a graph.
But they make no allowance for a sudden change or any dramatic alteration to the present situation.

What is Prophesied IS an dramatic and world changing event. The great and terrible Day of the Lord's vengeance and wrath by fire, earthquakes, storms and tsunamis. Over 100 Bible prophesies detail this event; the Sixth Seal disaster that will set the scene for all that must happen before Jesus Returns.
Shouldn't this be foremost in our minds, to be prepared for it; physically and spiritually?

Greetings, Keraz. I'm aware of your posts and your general position, but we strongly disagree on the timing of things. I'm not sure if you still believe and teach that His return is coming in 12 years, but I very firmly believe His return is nowhere near that close. I fully expect to die and go on to be with the Lord well before most (if not all) of end-time Biblical prophesy is fulfilled.

But blessings in Christ to you just the same.
HiH

 

[farouk]

Greetings, Keraz. I'm aware of your posts and your general position, but we strongly disagree on the timing of things. I'm not sure if you still believe and teach that His return is coming in 12 years, but I very firmly believe His return is nowhere near that close. I fully expect to die and go on to be with the Lord well before most (if not all) of end-time Biblical prophesy is fulfilled.

But blessings in Christ to you just the same.
HiH

Also depends on whether the coming relates to the church or to the world and Israel...

 

[Hidden In Him]

Also depends on whether the coming relates to the church or to the world and Israel...

I feel the same about both : )

Long ways off yet.

 

[farouk]

I feel the same about both : )

Long ways off yet.

Personally I don't see what has to happen before the Lord returns specifically for His church. We look back and we look forward, 1 Corinthians 11.26.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Personally I don't see what has to happen before the Lord returns specifically for His church.

This is a commonly held position, Farouk, but I don't agree with this one either. There would be several passages to address (that I'd rather not get into right now), but the command was to be watching for end-time events to unfold, and some of the ones it says we were to be watching for are nowhere near fulfillment. Some like Keraz believe that Biblical prophecy could come together exceedingly quickly, like practically overnight, but we are taking about the formation of military empires in the earth; one of which will be the largest and most fearsome in all of human history.

That doesn't happen overnight in my book. It's something that takes time to develop in the earth.

 

[farouk]

This is a commonly held position, Farouk, but I don't agree with this one either. There would be several passages to address (that I'd rather not get into right now), but the command was to be watching for end-time events to unfold, and some of the ones it says we were to be watching for are nowhere near fulfillment. Some like Keraz believe that Biblical prophecy could come together exceedingly quickly, like practically overnight, but we are taking about the formation of military empires in the earth; one of which will be the largest and most fearsome in all of human history.

That doesn't happen overnight in my book. It's something that takes time to develop in the earth.

Well, for me the emphasis in the NT is to keep 'looking unto Jesus' (Hebrews 12.2) and serving Him 'till He come' (1 Corinthians 11.26)...

 

[marks]

1. Worldwide Economic Crash.
This comes first, and sets the stage for the rest of it. Wilkerson used the words "persecution madness," while other visions use the words "rage" and "lawlessness," but financial collapse will cause societal breakdowns on a scale the world hasn't seen before. Mobs numbering in the hundreds of thousands will sweep through cities destroying everything in their path, and governments will not be able to control their populaces. Crime elements like gangs and drug cartels will gain the upper hand in many regions because of inadequate police funding and protection, so cops will simply have to stand by while murders are committed out in the open.

What year has this not been prophesied to happen at least once? Most years have at least 2 or 3 "highly regarded" prophecies of Economic Crash next month . . . in 6 months . . . next year. Every single times they've failed (Oh, except in the prophecies for 2008 ding ding ding! Got it! Oh, wait, not the Big Crash) all have failed.

I've seen the same thing with World War, or even limited nuclear attack. I have a friend who has lettered the side of his car to say that Jesus is returning in 2021. He had a vision. His life now is drive that Corvette all over the nation to proclaim the good news.

I've seen prophecy fulfilled, and false prophecies galore. Failed and false prophecies that their believers hang onto, trying to say, but look, this part happened, and that part could be happening over there, and trying to make it still be true.

But what when we examine the prophecy in the cold light of day, not hoping it's real, not trying to make it work, but to see, what is truly being said, what is the speaker getting at here? And was that what happened?

Prophecy economic crash every year and one year you'll be right. But you won't be. You'll just happen to be there at the time.

Prophecies that don't happen are false. Prophecies that don't happen the way the prophet says are false. And prophecies that contradict the Bible are false. God doesn't contradict Himself.

I really think we need to approach these things not with the supposition that every word we hear is true, given that so many have been false.

I'm not afraid to disqualify the prophecy that doesn't meet with this standard. But that's just me.

It's easy to get a feel for this. Reading through back pages of the Elijah List, for example. So many prophecies you can still read on their site that didn't happen.

An easy example is the prophecy from Kim Clement in 2004 about Osama bin Ladin's capture, and the turn on the war. These didn't happen, and the prophet started to waffle. I've seen that repeat itself over and over.

How off can a prophet be? Do they really have to 100% accurate? Is 80% enough? 20%?

Alright . . . rant over . . . I hope! But isn't there a better way?

Much love!

 

[Hidden In Him]

Well, for me the emphasis in the NT is to keep 'looking unto Jesus' (Hebrews 12:2)

Well, now if you look closely at this passage in Hebrews, the context is actually about looking unto Jesus, not where His return or the fulfillment of end-time prophecy is concerned, but so as to continue withstanding persecution and opposition for His name's sake (Hebrews 12:3). Certainly it's something we should be doing, but specifically so as to endure opposition. Concerning what to look for regarding His return, the teaching was to be looking for signs that it was approaching (Matthew 24:32-33).

 

[farouk]

Well, now if you look closely at this passage in Hebrews, the context is actually about looking unto Jesus, not where His return or the fulfillment of end-time prophecy is concerned, but so as to continue withstanding persecution and opposition for His name's sake (Hebrews 12:3). Certainly it's something we should be doing, but specifically so as to endure opposition. Concerning what to look for regarding His return, the teaching was to be looking for signs that it was approaching (Matthew 24:32-33).

Well, thanks, but I don't actually see the church in Matthew 24...

 

[farouk]

@Waiting on him I guess you don't see the church in Matthew 24, either...