'Death is swallowed up in victory' -When?

[GerhardEbersoehn]

Oh so God is teh devil now, should I repeat myself.

Here you say already God is the devil now, so no need to repeat yourself, you have said it clear enough who's the boss in hell according to yourself.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

No, I am not denying Christ's resurrection. I simply don't agree with your assigning the resurrection body to be a flesh body of corruption, which Apostle Paul made clear in 1 Corinthians 15:50, which you have denied.

When I agree with Davy you can be sure I'll disagree with his opponent who is an Earcreeper pretending he's a ruby earring. Klap dood die ding!

 

[Earburner]

AMEN! In fact when imperfect men/women claim-say they have God the Holy Spirit in them and that they honestly believe that to be true, it means for sure it is not the Holy Spirit of God, in them or God the Son was lying when He declared the Spirit SHALL NOT TESTIFY / WITNESS OF HIMSELF BUT SHALL CONVINCE whoever of HIS SINS and sinfulness and of the utter depravity of his own heart. And what is more, that Jesus said that this shall be the benefit and advantage of the Holy Spirit of God ALWAYS, without exception, until the very end and through the very end of every unsaved sinner. In fact the Holy Spirit shall torment the lost in hell and gnaw at their conscience, what their flesh, forever! FOR WHAT? For not having believed GOD THE SON. At least that is what the Son said and swore!

After reading what you wrote, I think Barney is correct in his "fence sitting", even though the outcome is not beneficial to him.

 

[Earburner]

No, I am not denying Christ's resurrection. I simply don't agree with your assigning the resurrection body to be a flesh body of corruption, which Apostle Paul made clear in 1 Corinthians 15:50, which you have denied.

You are denying the innocence of the Blood of his mortality, and that He resurrected without blood, into Immortality, being of "flesh and bone".

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

Thanks for identifying your allegiance with the old beliefs of Judaism on what the resurrection is, showing you don't heed what The New Testament teaches.

No difference between Old and New re: resurrection, thanks you showing you don't heed or better, know what either teaches.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

After reading what you wrote, I think Barney is correct in his "fence sitting", even though the outcome is not beneficial to him.

NWMA (not worth my attention)

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

You are denying the innocence of the Blood of his mortality, and that He resurrected without blood, into Immortality, being of "flesh and bone".

I have at least one, I'm almost sure more than one, of you alias'. God help my not to switch over to my natural tongue!

 

[Earburner]

No difference between Old and New re: resurrection, thanks you showing you don't heed or better, know what either teaches.

Umm... prior to Jesus, no one was ever resurrected into Immortality, or an everlasting being of any kind!!
Did you forget (or don't know), that only Jesus is the FIRSTborn from the dead".

 

[Earburner]

I have at least one, I'm almost sure more than one, of you alias'. God help my not to switch over to my natural tongue!

Yes, hearing the Truth has a tendency to cause the hearers to speak blasphemous words. Yes, please do keep your "natural man" under control and to yourself.

 

[charity]

It's a popular Church tradition to treat those "dead" of Rev.20:5 as being a second resurrection at the end of the 1,000 years to stand Judgment. However, Jesus showed us the wicked dead are raised on the same day the "resurrection of life" happens, per John 5:28-29. So where is the John 5 "resurrection of damnation" accounted for in that Rev.20 Scripture?

If we say those are resurrected at the end of the 1,000 years, then it goes directly against what our Lord Jesus said in John 5:28-29 about their resurrection happening also on the day of His 2nd coming. Thus the popular doctrine that the wicked dead aren't raised until the end of the 1,000 years, shows disagreement with God's Word.

Yes, that's true. But I'm pointing to the "resurrection of damnation" for the 'unjust' that Jesus showed in John 5:28-29 occurs on the day of His 2nd coming, along with the "resurrection of life".

Which is why you are posting on this thread, to possibly find out, I assume.

'So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption,
and this mortal shall have put on immortality,
then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written,
Death is swallowed up in victory.'
(1 Corinthians 15:54)

Hello @Davy,

My chief reason for starting this thread was to establish the truth expressed in 1 Corinthians 15:54, as to when death is swallowed up in victory. Which is not at death as many suppose, but at the Resurrection.

* There is more than one resurrection spoken of in Scripture, two are spoken of in relation to the beginning and end of the 1000 year reign, but they are but two, I believe that the Scriptures speak of more, as I have said previously.

* The event recorded in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18, concern 'the dead in Christ' and 'those that are alive and remain', there is no mention of the unbelieving dead being raised on that occasion.

'And this is the will of Him that sent Me,
that every one which seeth the Son,
and believeth on Him,
may have everlasting life:
and I will raise him up at the last day.'
(John 6:40)

* John 5:28-29 do not give an indication of when the resurrection referred to will take place,

'Marvel not at this:
for the hour is coming,
in the which all that are in the graves shall hear His voice,
And shall come forth;
they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life;
and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.'
(John 5:28)

'And have hope toward God,
which they themselves also allow,
that there shall be a resurrection of the dead,
both of the just and unjust.'
(Act 24:15)

'In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men
by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.'
(Rom 2:16 + Romans chapter 2 )

* Where we are not told 'when' a resurrection will occur: or when the time is indicated by the words, 'the hour', or 'the last day', or 'in the day', which refer to an indeterminate period of time; we cannot know for certain when, within that period of time, the resurrection referred to will occur.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Earburner]

'And have hope toward God,
which they themselves also allow,
that there shall be a resurrection of the dead,
both of the just and unjust.'
(Act 24:15)

Hi Charity,
Could you please reference that which the Jews "allow" in their understanding, of a "resurrection of just and unjust" in the OT?
I can't seem to find it
Thanks, EB

 

[Davy]

You are denying the innocence of the Blood of his mortality, and that He resurrected without blood, into Immortality, being of "flesh and bone".

No I'm not. You're just making up lies to try to get around what Apostle Paul declared about the resurrection in 1 Corinthians 15:50. Why don't you fess up and admit Paul is correct like he said there, as I agree with Apostle Paul. So truly, it is you... that is calling Apostle Paul a liar.

 

[Davy]

No difference between Old and New re: resurrection, thanks you showing you don't heed or better, know what either teaches.

More lies, that is.

Do you not believe what Apostle Paul said in 1 Corinthians 15:50 about the resurrection body?


The Old Testament does not give that detail about the resurrection body that Apostle Paul gave in 1 Corinthians 15. Nowhere does the Old Testament declare the resurrection is to a "spiritual body". Yet in the New Testament Apostle Paul does declare this "spiritual body". Thus there IS a difference when reading the Old Testament vs. the New Testament.

 

[Earburner]

As I said I believe what's written down, and what's written down in the scriptures is that God sent his, "Only Begotten Son" to the world, or the scriptures have written down, "Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the living God." The scriptures nowhere say, "God the Son." In all the manuscripts which go back thousands of years, nowhere when speaking of Jesus Christ do these manuscripts invert the phrase, "Son of God" to "God the Son." I'm not going to agree with inverting the phrase, "Son of God" to "God the Son." I honestly believe people to be changing Scripture when they do that and it seems to me they're doing it to try to prove their belief in the Trinity.

Then you disagree with the pre-incarnate Christ, speaking of Himself in the book of
Proverbs 8:22-31 (KJV)

 

[Earburner]

No I'm not. You're just making up lies to try to get around what Apostle Paul declared about the resurrection in 1 Corinthians 15:50. Why don't you fess up and admit Paul is correct like he said there, as I agree with Apostle Paul. So truly, it is you... that is calling Apostle Paul a liar.

The focus is on Jesus' own testimony, about His own resurrection, as it is written in the account of Thomas' eyewitness of what he saw, and Christ's words said to him.
And I'm the liar??
I think not!

 

[mjrhealth]

Here you say already God is the devil now, so no need to repeat yourself, you have said it clear enough who's the boss in hell according to yourself.

Now you twist words, have you got nothing, God doesnt beat people up, thats teh devils job.

 

[Earburner]

No I'm not. You're just making up lies to try to get around what Apostle Paul declared about the resurrection in 1 Corinthians 15:50. Why don't you fess up and admit Paul is correct like he said there, as I agree with Apostle Paul. So truly, it is you... that is calling Apostle Paul a liar.

Ok, again, but lets look at it from the truth that you are trying to marry, between to scriptures.
(a.) 1 Corinthians 15:50
(b.) Luke 24:39.

(a.) Says "flesh and blood".
(b.) Says "flesh and bone".
Now, as you compare the two, do you see any difference as to what is written?
I mean, do the words" flesh and blood" and "flesh and bone" say the same thing to you?
Because if they do, I don't see it!!

 

[Davy]

'So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption,
and this mortal shall have put on immortality,
then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written,
Death is swallowed up in victory.'
(1 Corinthians 15:54)

Hello @Davy,

My chief reason for starting this thread was to establish the truth expressed in 1 Corinthians 15:54, as to when death is swallowed up in victory. Which is not at death as many suppose, but at the Resurrection.

Yes, I understand that. No problem.

* There is more than one resurrection spoken of in Scripture, two are spoken of in relation to the beginning and end of the 1000 year reign, but they are but two, I believe that the Scriptures speak of more, as I have said previously.

Like I said in my last post, I'm speaking of the "resurrection of damnation" which is about the raising of the wicked dead on the day of Christ's return along with the "resurrection of life". This per John 5:28-29.

* The event recorded in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18, concern 'the dead in Christ' and 'those that are alive and remain', there is no mention of the unbelieving dead being raised on that occasion.

That's right, but that doesn't erase what our Lord Jesus said in John 5:28-29 that shows there will be a "resurrection of damnation" on the day of His coming also. We are not to pick'n'choose Scripture, accepting one and not another. Often The Gospel Books do not mention all events that are to take place on the day of Christ's coming. That's why it's obvious He gave us His Revelation through His servant John.

* John 5:28-29 do not give an indication of when the resurrection referred to will take place,

Well, yes it does. The "for the hour is coming" phrase is simply about that future day, the very point in time when, "all that are in the graves shall hear His voice, And shall come forth". He is emphatically speaking of the last day of this world at His 2nd coming. That is when the dead will come forth to their respective resurrection. Apostle Paul had this hope of both resurrections also as you showed in Acts 24:15..

* Where we are not told 'when' a resurrection will occur: or when the time is indicated by the words, 'the hour', or 'the last day', or 'in the day', which refer to an indeterminate period of time; we cannot know for certain when, within that period of time, the resurrection referred to will occur.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

No, you cannot change the hour that our Lord Jesus gave for both resurrection types on the day of His 2nd coming.

1 Thess 4:16-17
16 For the Lord Himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
KJV

I know that does not mention the dead of the "resurrection of damnation". I think I made that clear. But in the John 5:28-29 version, Jesus did mention the "resurrection of damnation" coming forth then, and He made it clear.

In the following John 5 Scripture, our Lord Jesus gave a comparison between the dead who 'hear' His voice vs. the event when all in the graves shall hear His voice and come forth...

John 5:24-29
24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

That above event Jesus was speaking of the resurrection that happened on the day of His crucifixion, no doubt from His going to the "spirits in prisons" and preaching The Gospel to them, and leading those who would 'hear' out of the heavenly prison (1 Peter 3 & 4; Isaiah 42:7). That "and now is" is a time marker for His day, not the last day He will cover here next.

26 For as the Father hath life in Himself; so hath He given to the Son to have life in Himself;
27 And hath given Him authority to execute judgment also, because He is the Son of man.

28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear His voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
KJV

That "hour is coming" above in the 28-29 verses is different, because it includes "all that are in the graves" coming forth, meaning the wicked dead also. Jesus is specific too, because He declared those coming forth then include those of the "resurrection of damnation".

So I really don't understand why brethren don't recognize that John 5:28-29 event as written, as our Lord Jesus even gave us a contrast right there between it on the last day and the resurrection that occurred on the day of His crucifixion.

 

[Davy]

The focus is on Jesus' own testimony, about His own resurrection, as it is written in the account of Thomas' eyewitness of what he saw, and Christ's words said to him.
And I'm the liar??
I think not!

Then declare what Apostle Paul said in 1 Corinthians 15:50 to be true. (But I know you won't, because you'd rather tell a lie.)

1 Cor 15:50
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
KJV

 

[Davy]

Ok, again, but lets look at it from the truth that you are trying to marry, between to scriptures.
(a.) 1 Corinthians 15:50
(b.) Luke 24:39.

(a.) Says "flesh and blood".
(b.) Says "flesh and bone".
Now, as you compare the two, do you see any difference as to what is written?
I mean, do the words" flesh and blood" and "flesh and bone" say the same thing to you?
Because if they do, I don't see it!!

What Paul taught about the resurrection body in 1 Corinthians 15:50 is only a START! I haven't even gotten to the part where Paul also showed the resurrection is the "image of the heavenly" right before that 50th verse!

1 Cor 15:49-50
49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
KJV

And then there's Paul's declaration in 1 Corinthians 15 that the resurrection body is a "spiritual body" that goes with those 49th & 50th verses.

1 Cor 15:42-49
42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
45 And so it is written, 'The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.'
46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.


And then there's the REAL KICKER, where Paul declares within this context that "the second man is the Lord from heaven", pointing to Christ's resurrection body!

47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
KJV

I mean, your theories just don't stand a chance when it comes to what Apostle Paul actually taught about the resurrection body.