tigger 2
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If you folks would ever settle on a single scripture to discuss fully before moving on .... I would like to participate. But....
Defend your 'Trinity'- by taking one scripture at a time.
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I would say it is only a salvation issue for some people. Who really understands the nature of God as well as that? It is because so many cannot even begin to fathom what is involved that so many simply follow what someone they respect has said about it. I cannot believe God will not accept a person because he does not understand the nature of God. God is looking at our hearts rather than our held doctrines. What are we doing with what we have been given [including understanding or revelation]? God knows exactly what each person has been given. No one else does!
Some of course, really could care less one way or the other and simply fill the pews on a regular basis.
Knowing God does not mean knowing all the details precisely. Who besides God Himself knows that much? A baby in Christ may know God, but having only just started reading his Bible for the first time in his life, he knows very little of the details. As he grows in the Lord he will be held accountable for what he does along the way with what he has. Who but God knows both what a person has at any point and what he has done with what he has?
This can be a real problem for a person who takes OSAS seriously in the direction of sitting back and doing nothing at all because he is already saved, but that is a different problem having little or nothing to do with a Trinity or the lack thereof, I believe...?
Sincere people who know little of the details of God may please Him by their attitude and their efforts and their submission to Him. Of course if a person makes no effort to improve his understanding of all that God makes available to him then God factors that in as well. Who else can? Not me for anyone else certainly. I don't even know all of the facts regarding myself but hopefully I am closer in that than when I first believed.
Did you decide it should be at the very top of the list or did God so decide? Consider what Jesus said here about priorities:
"But seek ye (1) first the kingdom of God, and (2) his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you" Matt 6:33
If a person is seeking those two things first before anything else and really putting his mind and heart into it...what thing of importance will God leave out of the "things... added unto you"?
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Matt 3:16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:
17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
go
tell us what (church) you are attached to and what you believe about God.
About the father the son and the Holy Ghost
Since you believe Christian truth, dogma, the catholic and divine revelation
Wrangler
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The OT does not identify the Spirit of God as a separate being from God but merely His Spirit. The joke of GE 1:3 is just amazing. In other words, in your 1st try to answer the OP, you tacitly admit there is not one single verse that explicitly teaches the trinity.
You have to start with the doctrine, then impose trinitarian doctrine onto unitarian text. Hence your words in parenthesis above, to trinitarian-splain Scripture.
Wrangler
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Wrangler
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no trying to jam trinity theology and anti- trinity theology into fitting with scripture are both of man, both adopted to confuse the issue.
the bible states they are One, Jesus states He is in the Father and the Father in Him, Jesus also states that God is a Spirit, so you have God His Presence (Holy Spirit) and His Word spoken in His Presence. also Jesus instructed the Apostles to baptize in the name of the Father Son and Holy Spirit.
wake up, God's Spirit can be in more that one person at one time, and John states Jesus is the Word of God made flesh. and Jesus also states that a believer has the power to become a son of God. you don't seem to get the program at hand. and the prophesy thereof is in Abraham Isaac and Jacob. so Father Son and Holy Ghost can be three as One. more that one person can have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit and hear the Word of God who is the Son. what is of spirit but word. there for the Word of God is the Son of God that goes out and returns fulfilled according to the Father's will.
time and space has no jurisdiction over God, He inhabits eternity.
Wrangler
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Wrangler
Well-Known Member
Yea, as we are one. John 17:22. Does not make the man Jesus God any more than us.
Even the JW's own Bible says Jesus is God and Hell fire is eternal!
NWT John 20:28 In answer Thomas said to him: “My Lord and my God!”
NWT John 20:28 In answer Thomas said to him: “My Lord and my God!”
The trinity;
To most cases when it comes to denying the trinity most people are believing that you are rejecting the deity of Christ Jesus. That is not true.
You can believe in the trinity if you desire; You can also not believe in the trinity if you desire.
What you do not want to do is ; stop believing and trusting God and the Lord Jesus Christ into a hard heart of unbelief. Take care!
To most cases when it comes to denying the trinity most people are believing that you are rejecting the deity of Christ Jesus. That is not true.
You can believe in the trinity if you desire; You can also not believe in the trinity if you desire.
What you do not want to do is ; stop believing and trusting God and the Lord Jesus Christ into a hard heart of unbelief. Take care!
Yes You are right KCNALP: This scripture is true. Anyone who was alive and saw Jesus Christ ; saw God through the Lord Jesus Christ. Anyone who had seen and hung around the Lord Jesus Christ ; seen God by the spirit which was given off by the Lord Jesus Christ - cause the spirit of God resided with the Lord Jesus Christ.
Would like to try to give you a view at least you could possibly consider; Thomas had touched; and realized that Jesus Christ the true Lord, and God was the true God in which Thomas saw, and having his understanding in that Jesus Christ was the chosen and sent messiah by God.
Now you may take that differently which is okay, but if you go back and read the scriptures leading up to this one you will see what is being talked about in the Gospel of John.
Have you ever heard anything like this ?
Hello @kcnalp
That is fine; if you do not consider my suggestion.
If God is spirit how can God be a man? I do not get it... God can be in and through the Lord Jesus Christ ~ but for me to understand that God is a man is something that really bothers me especially when the bible clear God is spirit, and Jesus Christ - the Word who once was with God, was God, and was with God in the beginning left the position of being the Word of God into a lower position as a human being. (Though His Father exalts the Lord Jesus Christ His Son because of the task of completing the rest of what was foretold in the old testament in which Jesus was the Word of God.)
Thoughts on this?
That is fine; if you do not consider my suggestion.
If God is spirit how can God be a man? I do not get it... God can be in and through the Lord Jesus Christ ~ but for me to understand that God is a man is something that really bothers me especially when the bible clear God is spirit, and Jesus Christ - the Word who once was with God, was God, and was with God in the beginning left the position of being the Word of God into a lower position as a human being. (Though His Father exalts the Lord Jesus Christ His Son because of the task of completing the rest of what was foretold in the old testament in which Jesus was the Word of God.)
Thoughts on this?
You're saying Thomas was wrong? How about John, The Word was God? How about Isaiah, "Mighty God"?
No am not saying Thomas is wrong.
(My answer is trying to relate to the context of what John has provided before the happening of Thomas and saying My Lord and My God, and trying to present a case of why it is that Thomas does this. Because of what Jesus Christ has told his disciples before: If you have see me; you have seen the Father.)
That depends on perception of what your thoughts are of when you initially read John 1:1.
Yes Isaiah was right about Jesus Christ is the Lord God Almighty.
(My answer is trying to relate to the context of what John has provided before the happening of Thomas and saying My Lord and My God, and trying to present a case of why it is that Thomas does this. Because of what Jesus Christ has told his disciples before: If you have see me; you have seen the Father.)
That depends on perception of what your thoughts are of when you initially read John 1:1.
Yes Isaiah was right about Jesus Christ is the Lord God Almighty.
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
No Bible says Jesus is God. You do like to confuse exclamations with declaratory sentences. John said, "Behold, the Lamb of God," which means Jesus is the lamb, not God. Jesus said he was sent by God, which means he is not God. Paul said 'For us, there is one God, the Father.' Jesus is not the Father and therefore, not God.
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