Did Jesus Go To Hell?

[Brakelite]

Backlit you might consider starting a thread on this, it is an interesting topic. A lot of it is belief driven.
You are pointing out those in the OT, like Noah, what happed to them. The Hebrews believed in a spirit level known as Shoal but this can get equated to the grave. Did Shoal exist....does it still exist? Is there anything in the Bible that says that Shoal ceased to exist?
Of course you have the medium talking to the departed Samuel. Where was Samuel?
Then on the other hand, Christ talked to Elijah and Moses. Where were they? Did He wake them up? Did they go back to sleep?
But talking to the departed is discouraged.
Of course then there is the story of Lazarus and the rich man. Is it completely metaphorical?
Then at Christ's resurrection you have those that rose from their graves and the Bible describes them as bodies and saints. Where did these bodies go? What happened to them? Did they go back to the graves?
Hopefully these bodies were restored and not looking like Michael Jackson's Thriller video.
On one hand the NT talks about the saints that are asleep....who died for us, so that whether we are awake or asleep, we will live together with Him. What does waking up feel like?
Then the Bible says that...Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, and will come out: those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the bad deeds to a resurrection of judgment. Is it the decayed bodies that hear His voice or the souls? Are the souls in the graves? Where are they?
Some believe in the unconscious state of the souls...unconscious where?
But how will the end times resurrection look like? Will they be digging their way out of their coffins? What will they look like? Will they materialize above their graves...Are the bodies going to be walking to the sight of Judgement? Or materialize before Christ? Are the souls in the graves with the bodies? Do the souls come from somewhere else to be placed in new bodies?
Then there is the rapture which appears to be an aerial phenomenon.

So many things to discuss.

And all of those questions have been discussed on a variety of threads on every forum on the globe for decades... And in person for centuries before that. And we're still discussing, and we're still disagreeing. Somewhere in there is the truth... But man-invented tradition and lingering heresies from Catholicism contribute to a toxic mix from which it is extremely difficult to extract anything that finds harmony and agreement with scripture without adding opinion.
The parable in Luke 16 is of course the prime example. It is difficult for most to treat that passage of scripture without making some mighty assumptions in support of their view.
But yeah, it is a great topic and always draws some interesting perspectives.

 

[Grailhunter]

And all of those questions have been discussed on a variety of threads on every forum on the globe for decades... And in person for centuries before that. And we're still discussing, and we're still disagreeing. Somewhere in there is the truth... But man-invented tradition and lingering heresies from Catholicism contribute to a toxic mix from which it is extremely difficult to extract anything that finds harmony and agreement with scripture without adding opinion.
The parable in Luke 16 is of course the prime example. It is difficult for most to treat that passage of scripture without making some mighty assumptions in support of their view.
But yeah, it is a great topic and always draws some interesting perspectives.

That is the point, what are people's opinion on these things.

 

[justbyfaith]

We really should study to shew ourselves approved and if we would all do that, we would all come to the same conclusions as to what the Bible teaches. Of course heresies are a work of the flesh so that gets in the way of some coming to the knowledge of the truth.

But the Bible teaches one truth concerning every issue and therefore Paul is not out of bounds to exhort the believers in Corinth to do the following.

1Co 1:10, Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

 

[Phoneman777]

Hey @Phoneman777
Nice to see you on here, been awhile bro! All good?

God's still on the throne, so yes!

 

[Phoneman777]

So good guys and bad guys BOTH used to be in HADES - exactly as pictured in Luke 16 - Jesus would not tell a parable that didn't picture things truthfully

rich man - beggar Lazarus - Abraham - all conscious and able to do things/speak etc

Savvy?

You do realize Luke 16 is a parable, found in the middle of a bunch of other parables, which contains things that violate other texts of Scripture if it's not a parable, right? Such as:

• Genesis 2:7 KJV says the Living Soul comes into existence as a consequence of the union of the Body and the Breath of Life (aka Spirit of Life), and Ecclesiastes 12:7 KJV plainly says at death, the Spirit returns just as it was to God and the Body to the Earth - and yet the Living Soul somehow continues to exist at the dissolution of it?
• The Rich Man and Lazarus having tongues, eyes, fingers, etc., when the Bible plainly teaches the dead don't receive their "tabernacle made in the heavens" until we stand before the Judgment seat of Christ which is not at death, but at the end of time.
• Do all the saints that have ever lived literally go to Abraham's bosom? How big is it? Clearly, this is a parabolic symbol for something else.
• What man do you know of could carry on a conversation while completely engulfed in flame?
• Would a single drop of water really do the least bit good to such a man?
• Peter says God will "reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished", which means they can't be suffering that now, seeing they have a reservation for it later. How could the Rich man be in "reserve" for punishment if he's already suffering it?
• David said the grave is "silent" and "dark", so how can these dead men literally be able to speak and see each other through the utter darkness?
• Solomon says the dead "know not anything" and their "memory is forgotten", so how is it that the Rich Man and Abraham know things and remember each other?
• Jesus specifically did not refer to "hell" as the fiery, burning, blazing "gehenna", but referred to is as "hades" or "the grave" aka "place of the dead".

There's too many contradictions that arise if we refuse to accept the passage for what it is: a parable, the message of which has nothing to do with what happens when we die, but was a warning to the Jewish nation of what would happen if they failed to get their act together.

 

[Grunt Hemlock]

You do realize that I just don't agree with you at all, not one bit, @Phoneman777, don't you? Are you SDA?

 

[Kobo]

@Devin Wintch, mind quoting your Bible verses again and explain what the first one you quoted was referring to? Now for everybody who isn't in on this conversation of course Jesus didn't go to Hell because He deserved it, the argument is whether or not the Bible says that He went to Hell on our behalves when He died on the cross for our sins.

Hell hasn't been opened for business. According to Jesus Christ's own teachings, there is no one in the Kingdom of Hell... not until after He returns will those who are deserving of it be admitted into it. Matthew 25 vs 31-46.

So, where do you get that Jesus Christ went to Hell.

 

[Grunt Hemlock]

Eph 4:9

Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?


Psa 16:10

For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

Act 2:27

Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

 

[kcnalp]

ONLY sinners go to Hell. Are you calling Jesus a sinner?

 

[Brakelite]

Eph 4:9

Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?


Psa 16:10

For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

Act 2:27

Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

Don't be sucked in by the nuances and carry overs and influences of pagan Greek philosophy... Hades, Pluto, god of the underworld, orcus, tartarus, etc etc. The word hell is merely the grave. That's it.

 

[April_Rose]

The word hell is merely the grave. That's it.

Pretty sure that being thrown into a fiery pit with a bunch of gnashing teeth and torture isn't referring to just the grave.

 

[Brakelite]

You do realize that I just don't agree with you at all, not one bit, @Phoneman777, don't you? Are you SDA?

I happen to know of a certainty that phoneman777 is a very friendly, very cute, very cuddly wombat living in the outer reaches of the

Pretty sure that being thrown into a fiery pit with a bunch of gnashing teeth and torture isn't referring to just the grave.

There's a resurrection from the grave for sinners and redeemed. For the redeemed the Resurrection takes place at the second coming. There was no gnashing of teeth for them in the grave.
For sinners, their Resurrection takes place at the end of the millennium...
KJV Revelation 20:5
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished.

...at which time they face their Judge, who is fair and just and reveals to them precisely why they stand condemned. Then, and only then, will they start to fear and quake because then they shall know their fate.

KJV Revelation 20:7-9
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
Then they shall wail and weep and gnash their teeth while suffering in the fire until they are destroyed. Their suffering will be just and fully commensurate with their evil works. Their sin. Children who in ignorance sinned little, will suffer little. Those who fully and with determination inflicted pain and suffering upon others for no cause, shall suffer greatly and for a longer time. But in the end, all sinners will cease to be. Then the new earth will be created upon the ashes of the old.
KJV Malachi 4:1-3
1 For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.
2 But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.
3 And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the LORD of hosts.

 

[kcnalp]

Pretty sure that being thrown into a fiery pit with a bunch of gnashing teeth and torture isn't referring to just the grave.

Isn't it interesting watching "Christians" trying to remove the everlasting fire from our Bibles? Hell will be filled with people who don't believe in Hell!

Matthew 18:8 (NKJV)
8 If your hand or foot causes you to sin, cut it off and cast it from you. It is better for you to enter into life lame or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet, to be cast into the everlasting fire.